I noticed two really annoying properties of that 'design site'. (Design errors are allways amplified in those sites about design.)
First, it uses fixed size fonts, which is terribly annoying. I always have text size on 'largest', and those fixed fonts cause the site to act 'stupid', and not respond to my wishes.
The second one is that they didn't have links to those sites they were listing. Isn't that crazy?:) For example on this page: http://www.wowwebdesigns.com/designs/top25/ there are no links to the web sites presented. The links are one (necessary) level, and 20 seconds wait time, deep.
But not always. For example this page http://www.wowwebdesigns.com/designs/id_245/ about a specific design has no link. And also this one http://www.wowwebdesigns.com/tools/id_74/ has no link, too. (Turns out that the first site is offline, and the second is a tool, not a site).
That is syntax from language to language is similar, but since they are running under the CLR, the functionality has to be the same
It is not the fact that they all run under the CLR that they all have the same functionality. It is because all the languages use the same support classes, also known as.NET framework, or 'API'. Yes, it is a small, but very important difference.
Hello? How is this different than compiled languages? Ultimately, machine code gets executed, whether you are writing C++, C#, VB, whatever,
It is VERY different. Yes all the C and C++ and VB6 end up being assembly, but the APIs they use are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
It was always the fact but this.NET thing is making is very clear, that somebody talked that a language is 'powerfull', he almost 97% percent of the time ment that API was powerfull!
Take this example: Turbo Pascal 3.0 can't make Windows applications, but MSC 7.0 can make both DOS and Windows programs. Can you say that MSC 7.0 is more powerfull? Is MSC 7.0 more powerfull because of the C language, or because it has access to a much much bigger API?
Think about it, sometimes a language is constructed that some APIs are trivial/automatic to call, by supporting a certain syntax to access that library or functionality. Smalltalk collections - API, Perl regexp - also API. Can anybody think of any example of "language power" which does not exist because of that language's library/API?
You guys are missing the most important point: there is only one API to program against.
Think about how much time you need to learn another language: 1-2 hours (or less) to learn the language, days or months to learn the API that language uses/has.
.NET unifies C run time library (an API) with VB global methods, also VBS Collection classes, or ASP's Server object. Now, every language has access to everything.
Your language has 'for's', while's, variables, calls, exceptions, math. Perhaps 20-30 keywords. Your Win32 or Posix or.NET has 10.000 calls? 5.000 classes? So we are talking about 30 against 10.000. There are no language wars (and never were), only API wars.
A C programmer will say how poor the performance of VM's are and how limited they are.
this might be true for other VM's..NET classes are compiled to native code at installation time, or at the moment of first use (and saved as compiled).
it is not the language, it is the libraries that you code against. for example, Windows Forms could easily be called WFC 2.0, same for many other classes.
ADO.NET is a successor to ADO, it is not 'imature' as you say. also, it is two generations ahead of anything that java has to offer to access databases.
ASP.NET is again the next version of ASP, it improved od ASP, it is not a '1.0' version. again, much richer that JSP.
take web services, and then look at sun's pathetic response (oh, yeah, we have web services too). i would call java web services api much more imature that microsofts.
java just copied ODBC, even the name is almost the same. however, even at that time, microsoft had several easier to use APIs for accessing data (DAO, etc), not to mention APIs that come later, like ADO, and now ADO.NET. Compared to ADO and ADO.NET (and even DAO), JDBC is very low level and much harder to use.
also, J2EE (2000) is a directy copy of MTS (1998), and JSP is a direct copy of ASP. java almosy literaly copied existing Windows technologies.
Wow. This is going to sound pretentious - but I can't imagine there are that many VB developers that can actually comprehend the advantages of the.NET framework.
Your lack of imagination amazes.
.NET is a new windows API, a new Win32 if you like. VB developers had a hard time accessing Win32 directly, they had to use wrappers, sometimes by MS, sometimes by a third party. Those wrappers usually came some months after a new functionality was released.
So, VBers now have two major advantages with.NET: they can access this new API, much richer, much newer and better than Win32, and:
THEY CAN ACCESS IT DIRECTLY. no wrappers, no time lag.
More sellers - lower prices, it does not matter why sellers are selling, or how much they want to save.
However, this situation can easily lead to a recession. As people are saving more, there is less and less money in the circulation, therefore money gets expensive, and then even less people is willing to part with it.
This is a classical recession scenario, and is usually prevented by issuing more money, therefore creating inflation which gives the people an incentive to spend it and not save it. I'm not sure this can be applied in the game, though.
A company with 300 employees might buy a Linux package, and then install it on 300-400 computers
Yes, but also, 300-400 companies could buy a linux box to evaluate (because it is so cheap), and then not use a single one! Counts could be wrong by the factor of... well, infinity. how do you know which way is it?
With Windows XP, Microsoft will be able to know EXACTLY how many people are using their own OS, and will be able to boast that they have a huge majority of users
Are you claiming there is no piracy?
It would be great if we could resolve this problem somehow. Have a central site which all distributions could bug their users about, that would track how many people actually use Linux.
We already have a central site which counts usage. Millions of them. They are called web servers. And what they say is that linux desktop has 0.25% share.
Slashdot Mirror
I noticed two really annoying properties of that 'design site'. (Design errors are allways amplified in those sites about design.)
First, it uses fixed size fonts, which is terribly annoying. I always have text size on 'largest', and those fixed fonts cause the site to act 'stupid', and not respond to my wishes.
The second one is that they didn't have links to those sites they were listing. Isn't that crazy?
But not always. For example this page http://www.wowwebdesigns.com/designs/id_245/ about a specific design has no link. And also this one http://www.wowwebdesigns.com/tools/id_74/ has no link, too. (Turns out that the first site is offline, and the second is a tool, not a site).
That is syntax from language to language is similar, but since they are running under the CLR, the functionality has to be the same
It is not the fact that they all run under the CLR that they all have the same functionality. It is because all the languages use the same support classes, also known as
Hello? How is this different than compiled languages? Ultimately, machine code gets executed, whether you are writing C++, C#, VB, whatever,
It is VERY different. Yes all the C and C++ and VB6 end up being assembly, but the APIs they use are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
It was always the fact but this
Take this example: Turbo Pascal 3.0 can't make Windows applications, but MSC 7.0 can make both DOS and Windows programs. Can you say that MSC 7.0 is more powerfull? Is MSC 7.0 more powerfull because of the C language, or because it has access to a much much bigger API?
Think about it, sometimes a language is constructed that some APIs are trivial/automatic to call, by supporting a certain syntax to access that library or functionality. Smalltalk collections - API, Perl regexp - also API. Can anybody think of any example of "language power" which does not exist because of that language's library/API?
Have fun.
In my opinion, your opinion is a wrong opinion.
I would say that judging from the number of visual (and non-visual) components available, VB is a pretty powerfull language.
In fact, because of those controls, it is one of the most powerfull languages there is.
Yes, Eiffel.NET is Eiffel. It is Eiffell that can use (in fact it is it's primary API) the
Do you also think that Turbo C is not C, but just assembly with a different syntax?
Have fun.
Think about how much time you need to learn another language: 1-2 hours (or less) to learn the language, days or months to learn the API that language uses/has.
.NET unifies C run time library (an API) with VB global methods, also VBS Collection classes, or ASP's Server object. Now, every language has access to everything.
Your language has 'for's', while's, variables, calls, exceptions, math. Perhaps 20-30 keywords. Your Win32 or Posix or
Languages are trivial, APIs are hard!
(Please mod this down)
most of the framework classes are writen in C#
At least two. VS.NET (not complete) is written in C#. Also, http://office.microsoft.com/ is using
A C programmer will say how poor the performance of VM's are and how limited they are.
.NET classes are compiled to native code at installation time, or at the moment of first use (and saved as compiled).
this might be true for other VM's.
they are never interpreted.
seems very open to security holes which are imposible under Java
what opennes to security holes are you talking about?
Except that it isn't mature,
it is more mature than you think.
it is not the language, it is the libraries that you code against. for example, Windows Forms could easily be called WFC 2.0, same for many other classes.
ADO.NET is a successor to ADO, it is not 'imature' as you say. also, it is two generations ahead of anything that java has to offer to access databases.
ASP.NET is again the next version of ASP, it improved od ASP, it is not a '1.0' version. again, much richer that JSP.
take web services, and then look at sun's pathetic response (oh, yeah, we have web services too). i would call java web services api much more imature that microsofts.
java just copied ODBC, even the name is almost the same. however, even at that time, microsoft had several easier to use APIs for accessing data (DAO, etc), not to mention APIs that come later, like ADO, and now ADO.NET. Compared to ADO and ADO.NET (and even DAO), JDBC is very low level and much harder to use.
also, J2EE (2000) is a directy copy of MTS (1998), and JSP is a direct copy of ASP. java almosy literaly copied existing Windows technologies.
now with
Your lack of imagination amazes.
So, VBers now have two major advantages with .NET: they can access this new API, much richer, much newer and better than Win32, and:
THEY CAN ACCESS IT DIRECTLY. no wrappers, no time lag.
if i was a VB developer, i would be very excited.
IL bytecodes are compiled to native code during installation, or on first execution in scenarios where no installation is needed.
so it does not slow things down in the way you say. for debugging purposes you can run it without final compilation.
However, this situation can easily lead to a recession. As people are saving more, there is less and less money in the circulation, therefore money gets expensive, and then even less people is willing to part with it.
This is a classical recession scenario, and is usually prevented by issuing more money, therefore creating inflation which gives the people an incentive to spend it and not save it. I'm not sure this can be applied in the game, though.
Yes, but also, 300-400 companies could buy a linux box to evaluate (because it is so cheap), and then not use a single one! Counts could be wrong by the factor of... well, infinity. how do you know which way is it?
With Windows XP, Microsoft will be able to know EXACTLY how many people are using their own OS, and will be able to boast that they have a huge majority of users
Are you claiming there is no piracy?
It would be great if we could resolve this problem somehow. Have a central site which all distributions could bug their users about, that would track how many people actually use Linux.
We already have a central site which counts usage. Millions of them. They are called web servers. And what they say is that linux desktop has 0.25% share.