Yep, that's right. The number one reason that it doesn't make sense to outlaw encryption is also the number one reason that it doesn't make sense to outlaw guns: if they're a criminal, they use guns/encryption anyway, so why tread on my rights.
You might say, "Well, it would make it harder for them to get". BS. There are millions of guns out there. I think that the "average" American owns 2 guns. Most of these are hunting rifles, and most are in the hands of a relatively few individuals, but they are still there. The sheer number of guns in the US (and the world as a whole too) make them nearly impossible to get rid of.
Same thing with crypto. All I have to do is download a copy of it. If they outlawed crypto tomorrow I'd still have my copy of PGP on my HD. Foriegn hosts would have readily available copies beyond the reach of any single national government. It would be impossible to stamp out.
Let's say you actually did get rid of all of the guns. I gun is not exactly an atomic bomb. It's a tube with one open end and a bullet at the other. Somebody on some thread meantioned that some rebels somewhere (Afganistan?) made decent copies of the AK-47 from hand tools. They brought up the point of the availability of such things as drill presses in most industrialized countries. Even if you destroy every gun out there, some criminal (who doesn't even have to re-invent it, just copy some old, simple design) will be able to make more.
Same thing with encryption. Anybody can invent OTP. Anybody can memorize a good stream cipher. Anybody can look up the algorithms behind RSA in a decent encyclopedia. And anybody who can code worth a darn can implement these ideas into a usable program. If you kept everything to short text messages, you wouldn't even need something fancy like IDEA or 3-DES. You could just use raw RSA, which is a *very* powerful algorithm.
Pandora's Box has been opened. Guns and crypto exist. And any attempts to regulate them into oblivion will just fail. You just have to learn to live with their existance and concentrate on solving the problems that both create.
but I know that in 1987 or so a retarded couple (IQ's both in the 60's) got married and had a kid, and while a lot of people tried to talk them out of it, nobody took any real action against it. 60 minutes recently had a big follow-up story about it.
is already a bit like the Guide, but not as well organized [snigger]. Perhaps the makers of this "guide" will pick up on it and go with the same model.
...is a lot easier than you'd think. It may take a brazen theif to try to pick a lock in broad daylight for 7 months straight, but it doesn't take 7 months. My little brother can pick a standard padlock in 2 minutues, and he picked it up from a book. Anybody with REAL training in lockpicking would be able to do it much faster. Also, a bolt cutter, or an acetylene (sp?) torch really makes a physical lock seem like a bad line of defense.
If the software truly doesn't add any cost to the machine, why limit yourself to 10? Order a couple thousand and give 'em away to anybody who would have otherwise bought a site licence. The sheer cost of shipping a few thousand copies will put proof to the myth that it is in no way free.
just/.ed. Ever since that bit about the Kansas board of education (broke Hellmouth's record!) it's been slow, but not down. I can't guaruntee that it was up yesterday (the 11th) but it was up whenever I tried this morning (the 12th). It was r*e*a*l*l*y slow, but still up. The Kansas story went up at ~7pm the 11th, so that seems to be a good explination.
Actually, whoever wrote that probably isn't American-centric, but just not very good at writing clear sentances. "but one is in Canada" separates out Canada as non-U.S., but then that last part contradicts it. I think the author was referring to the fact that it is a lot easier to export crypto to Canada than to other countries, so it would take another foriegn country to make a problem.
In fact, doesn't NAFTA basically say that you can't set up restrictions to trade between Canada, the US, and Mexico? How's that fit in with ITAR? Is ITAR even applicable when exporting to Canada? If not, would all you Canadians please get rid off all (if any) crypto export restrictions so us oppressed Americans can just route everything through. I at least would be eternally grateful.
that one part of the government is trying to support strong crypto and provide it to the people, while another part is trying to limit the spread of ANY crypto whatsoever, and wants to limit not only the export of cryptography but its distribution and use withing the United States.
Whenever I'm just poking at the site for fun (simple + stupid DoS, port surfing, etc.) it's up. The moment I actually try to get in, it crashes. Not the moment I try to take it down, but the moment I try to break in. Guess it's a good way to keep ppl. out.
Perhaps the AC means it's been a little slow. Right when it was first announced the/. effect slowed it down a bit, and it may have appeared to be down, but if you were patient it would eventually reply.
The w2k box, on the other hand, has almost always been slow, and appears to have spent more time down than up.
Should I tell M$ what I was doing to their machine right before it went down or not? What I was doing *probably* didn't take it down, but it may have. Should I bother telling them or keep it to myself?
It's down. 207.46.175.250 is just the machine before www.windows2000test.com. It can have a firewall, as it isn't the machine we've been invited into. 207.46.171.196 is. The reason your traceroute didn't get past 207.46.175.250 is that 207.46.171.196 is down _and therefore can't reply to any packets at all_.
We are gathered here today to today to mourn the passing of www.windows2000test.com.
www.windows2000test.com led a short life, but one full of activity. It is this action that we should remember, how pleasantly he served those static web pages, and the cute manner in which he [beep]ed out naughty words, like compe[beep]ion. We should remember how he went missing for a while, and then came back, opening up to us with several ports. We should focus on these positive things, not that somebody stuck a knife in those ports and twisted it with 30 minutes, but on how trustingly www.windows2000test.com invited us in.
I know that many of you will find his passing difficult to cope with, and I only wish I could do more to ease your grief.
Not only is 207.46.171.196 (windows2000test.com) not responding, but 207.46.175.250 (the maching to which windows2000test.com appears to route all of its traffic) is also down. I e-mailed the MS ppl. if 207.46.175.250 is fair game, but I imagine that they are a little busy at the moment.
Has ANYBODY been able to get into ANYTHING at ANY time other than http ports? Some guy said everyone had download access to some msdca directory or something, but I haven't heard of anybody else getting in. If no ports are open then whats the point?
Well, your argument about the 50% makes sense if you're flipping a coin, but not if you invest in the market. When you flip a coin and loose, your money is gone. When you buy a stock and it goes down, you still own the stock. The stock can go back up. So, your argument makes sense if you day trade (an extremely risky method of 'investing'), or panic and sell immediately.
If fact in the long run, the average stock goes up a bit over 6% a year. So if you buy and hold a market fund you are all but guarunteed to make money *in the long run*. Why don't we look at some examples of long run investing.
Let's say a person makes $30,000 a year. If they put 10% of their post-tax income ($2100) in the market for 40 years at 6% (in an IRA), they'll have $314326.27. If they beat the market (not hard to do if you pick decent stocks and follow a buy and hold forever strategy) they can easily get 8%, leaving them with $521891.86. And they only put in 2100*40=$84000.
Now let's take the case of a person in the CS field. Let's say that start at $40,000, get a 2% raise annually, and again put 10% of their post-tax income in an IRA at 8%. At the end of their 40 years they'll have... $1,138,461.44 . Yes, that's right. 1.1 million dollars. They will also be making another $91,076.92 a year off of their investments. And all the while they just put 10% of their post-tax income into an IRA. And they could conceivably have more than that, like if their employer has a matching donation plan with the IRA, or if they put in a bit more than 10%, which is a rather low savings rate if you ask me. Now, this hypothetical person's income certainly doesn't qualify them as rich, but a wise investment plan can make them rich.
There are two ways to make a lot of money: either have a lot of money already or wait for a long time. Not everybody has a lot of money, but everybody has (or at least starts off with) a lot of time. Try reading "The Millionaire Next Door" if you don't believe me.
Slashdot Mirror
Replace guns with encryption.
Yep, that's right. The number one reason that it doesn't make sense to outlaw encryption is also the number one reason that it doesn't make sense to outlaw guns: if they're a criminal, they use guns/encryption anyway, so why tread on my rights.
You might say, "Well, it would make it harder for them to get". BS. There are millions of guns out there. I think that the "average" American owns 2 guns. Most of these are hunting rifles, and most are in the hands of a relatively few individuals, but they are still there. The sheer number of guns in the US (and the world as a whole too) make them nearly impossible to get rid of.
Same thing with crypto. All I have to do is download a copy of it. If they outlawed crypto tomorrow I'd still have my copy of PGP on my HD. Foriegn hosts would have readily available copies beyond the reach of any single national government. It would be impossible to stamp out.
Let's say you actually did get rid of all of the guns. I gun is not exactly an atomic bomb. It's a tube with one open end and a bullet at the other. Somebody on some thread meantioned that some rebels somewhere (Afganistan?) made decent copies of the AK-47 from hand tools. They brought up the point of the availability of such things as drill presses in most industrialized countries. Even if you destroy every gun out there, some criminal (who doesn't even have to re-invent it, just copy some old, simple design) will be able to make more.
Same thing with encryption. Anybody can invent OTP. Anybody can memorize a good stream cipher. Anybody can look up the algorithms behind RSA in a decent encyclopedia. And anybody who can code worth a darn can implement these ideas into a usable program. If you kept everything to short text messages, you wouldn't even need something fancy like IDEA or 3-DES. You could just use raw RSA, which is a *very* powerful algorithm.
Pandora's Box has been opened. Guns and crypto exist. And any attempts to regulate them into oblivion will just fail. You just have to learn to live with their existance and concentrate on solving the problems that both create.
but I know that in 1987 or so a retarded couple (IQ's both in the 60's) got married and had a kid, and while a lot of people tried to talk them out of it, nobody took any real action against it. 60 minutes recently had a big follow-up story about it.
is already a bit like the Guide, but not as well organized [snigger]. Perhaps the makers of this "guide" will pick up on it and go with the same model.
...is a lot easier than you'd think. It may take a brazen theif to try to pick a lock in broad daylight for 7 months straight, but it doesn't take 7 months. My little brother can pick a standard padlock in 2 minutues, and he picked it up from a book. Anybody with REAL training in lockpicking would be able to do it much faster. Also, a bolt cutter, or an acetylene (sp?) torch really makes a physical lock seem like a bad line of defense.
If the software truly doesn't add any cost to the machine, why limit yourself to 10? Order a couple thousand and give 'em away to anybody who would have otherwise bought a site licence. The sheer cost of shipping a few thousand copies will put proof to the myth that it is in no way free.
just /.ed. Ever since that bit about the Kansas board of education (broke Hellmouth's record!) it's been slow, but not down. I can't guaruntee that it was up yesterday (the 11th) but it was up whenever I tried this morning (the 12th). It was r*e*a*l*l*y slow, but still up. The Kansas story went up at ~7pm the 11th, so that seems to be a good explination.
...for the better
Actually, whoever wrote that probably isn't American-centric, but just not very good at writing clear sentances. "but one is in Canada" separates out Canada as non-U.S., but then that last part contradicts it. I think the author was referring to the fact that it is a lot easier to export crypto to Canada than to other countries, so it would take another foriegn country to make a problem.
In fact, doesn't NAFTA basically say that you can't set up restrictions to trade between Canada, the US, and Mexico? How's that fit in with ITAR? Is ITAR even applicable when exporting to Canada?
If not, would all you Canadians please get rid off all (if any) crypto export restrictions so us oppressed Americans can just route everything through. I at least would be eternally grateful.
that one part of the government is trying to support strong crypto and provide it to the people, while another part is trying to limit the spread of ANY crypto whatsoever, and wants to limit not only the export of cryptography but its distribution and use withing the United States.
Figures.
Whenever I'm just poking at the site for fun (simple + stupid DoS, port surfing, etc.) it's up. The moment I actually try to get in, it crashes. Not the moment I try to take it down, but the moment I try to break in. Guess it's a good way to keep ppl. out.
Perhaps the AC means it's been a little slow. Right when it was first announced the /. effect slowed it down a bit, and it may have appeared to be down, but if you were patient it would eventually reply.
The w2k box, on the other hand, has almost always been slow, and appears to have spent more time down than up.
you mean nasty person you! Leave the poor thing alone. Kicking it when it's down. How could you?
I can't decide so it's up to /.
Should I tell M$ what I was doing to their machine right before it went down or not? What I was doing *probably* didn't take it down, but it may have. Should I bother telling them or keep it to myself?
--SNIP--
The Windows 2000 Test Web site is currently unavailable.
For more information on Windows 2000 please click here.
We will have this site operational as soon as possible.
--SNIP
Looks like they're having trouble keeping the site up. Wonder why.
12:32 CST
It appears to be back up (it responds to pings), but is refusing all connections to port 80. It may just be that they don't like me though :).
Can anybody get in on port 80?
Because it is already DEAD!
Because you aren't trying to crack *the* site.
It's down. 207.46.175.250 is just the machine before www.windows2000test.com. It can have a firewall, as it isn't the machine we've been invited into. 207.46.171.196 is. The reason your traceroute didn't get past 207.46.175.250 is that 207.46.171.196 is down _and therefore can't reply to any packets at all_.
but it won't do you any good. The server is DEAD.
207.46.171.196
We are gathered here today to today to mourn the passing of www.windows2000test.com.
www.windows2000test.com led a short life, but one full of activity. It is this action that we should remember, how pleasantly he served those static web pages, and the cute manner in which he [beep]ed out naughty words, like compe[beep]ion. We should remember how he went missing for a while, and then came back, opening up to us with several ports. We should focus on these positive things, not that somebody stuck a knife in those ports and twisted it with 30 minutes, but on how trustingly www.windows2000test.com invited us in.
I know that many of you will find his passing difficult to cope with, and I only wish I could do more to ease your grief.
So whats the point.
It's been down for about 45 min now or so.
Except that there were about 1000 other people/sec also trying to kill it.
How did you get in? All of the ports are closed.
Not only is 207.46.171.196 (windows2000test.com) not responding, but 207.46.175.250 (the maching to which windows2000test.com appears to route all of its traffic) is also down. I e-mailed the MS ppl. if 207.46.175.250 is fair game, but I imagine that they are a little busy at the moment.
Has ANYBODY been able to get into ANYTHING at ANY time other than http ports? Some guy said everyone had download access to some msdca directory or something, but I haven't heard of anybody else getting in. If no ports are open then whats the point?
Well, your argument about the 50% makes sense if you're flipping a coin, but not if you invest in the market. When you flip a coin and loose, your money is gone. When you buy a stock and it goes down, you still own the stock. The stock can go back up. So, your argument makes sense if you day trade (an extremely risky method of 'investing'), or panic and sell immediately.
If fact in the long run, the average stock goes up a bit over 6% a year. So if you buy and hold a market fund you are all but guarunteed to make money *in the long run*. Why don't we look at some examples of long run investing.
Let's say a person makes $30,000 a year. If they put 10% of their post-tax income ($2100) in the market for 40 years at 6% (in an IRA), they'll have $314326.27. If they beat the market (not hard to do if you pick decent stocks and follow a buy and hold forever strategy) they can easily get 8%, leaving them with $521891.86. And they only put in 2100*40=$84000.
Now let's take the case of a person in the CS field. Let's say that start at $40,000, get a 2% raise annually, and again put 10% of their post-tax income in an IRA at 8%. At the end of their 40 years they'll have... $1,138,461.44
. Yes, that's right. 1.1 million dollars. They will also be making another $91,076.92 a year off of their investments. And all the while they just put 10% of their post-tax income into an IRA. And they could conceivably have more than that, like if their employer has a matching donation plan with the IRA, or if they put in a bit more than 10%, which is a rather low savings rate if you ask me. Now, this hypothetical person's income certainly doesn't qualify them as rich, but a wise investment plan can make them rich.
There are two ways to make a lot of money: either have a lot of money already or wait for a long time. Not everybody has a lot of money, but everybody has (or at least starts off with) a lot of time. Try reading "The Millionaire Next Door" if you don't believe me.
-----
Stock tip of the day: Buy Low Sell High.