>>>>>> I agree completely with you electrictroy.... That's the big problem though, if you've got a sweet antenna setup, the white space devices can decide some of the channels you can pick up are idle and blast a signal right over the TV signal. And, in fact, already have during several FCC prototype tests... (Google etc. have claimed the prototype they provided was defective.. well.. if manufacturing defects can cause the device to fail noisy, it fails as far as I'm concerned.. and the FCC.) >>>
I guess you missed the Slashdot article about gov't adding new "black boxes" to ISP buildings. These black boxes let the government see every website you've visited, and perhaps during the next election (2012) they'll be able to do more than just read Joe the Plumber's license. They'll also be able to see his websurfing habits. (Or some other citizen.)
And then we'll watch as the govt/media work together to leak the information ("shocking news - John Q. visits playboy.com!") and destroy an innocent person's life. Re-read the grandparent post.
>>>How many times do we have to get hit for us not to finally retaliate and defend.
Ever heard the phrase "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek"? Just because some invades your house and kills your wife, doesn't justify going on a killing spree to execute all thieves/murders (vigilante justice). Just because 3000 civilians got killed on 9/11, doesn't justify killing 20,000 Iraqis and 10,000 Afghanis. That makes US the true terrorists.
>>>There are some things that youngsters should not be exposed to.
I disagree. Better to expose them now when you can answer questions, rather than wait until their in their college dorm and encountering all kinds of new things (like goatse) and you're not there to guide them.
Also "for the children" doesn't justify the dumbing-down of the internet to the level of a 5-year-old. The internet is a place for ADULT discussions, and it would be stupid to remove all adult-level intelligence from it. It would be the death of one of humanity's most useful tools.
>>>to the tune of 3,000 civilians in a well orchestrated sneak attack.
And we killed 20,000 innocents in Iraq and 10,000 innocents in Afghanistan, so WE have become the terrorists as well. We have become the evil. The proper response was to mourn the losses, and tighten border patrols, not go on a killing spree of revenge.
Well, if you cross that same bridge every day, you'd be paying $60 a month. The EZpass reduces that amount to 20 cents per crossover, or just $12 a month.
>>>This wealth will allow them greater buying power which will mean more customers for Joe.
Imagine if NOBODY paid income taxes unless they earned 1 million dollars (the real rich people). They'd still pay all the other taxes (sales, electric, phone, cell, gasoline, natural gas), so they'd be contributing to society, but not income tax. That would REALLY give customers more money to spend.
The ISPs have to rent T-100 or T-1000 lines to connect their local network to the rest of the world. Those lines are provided by somebody, and billed to the local neighborhood ISP. So the original question, "How much do ISPs pay?" was a legitimate question.
(1) My Amish neighbors don't shop at the store; they grow their own food. So, no, not "everyone" pays the toll. (2) Oh, they also don't pay income or medicare or SS tax, so they don't contribute to the general fund either.
You need to avoid uses words like "everyone". There's always exceptions.
Verizon. Dish. Directv. Some other satellite service. Phoneline Dialup (I use Netscape ISP with browsing almost as fast as my DSL; although it can't handle any streaming faster than youtube.)
>>>I am so fed up with people who think they are in the right when they hold up traffic.
Me too, but that wasn't the situation here.
> >>>They should have their licenses revoked, they are a danger on the roads. >
In my state, YOU are the one whose license would be revoked. Moving faster than 40 in a construction zone results in an instant 9 points demeanor (unless the cop decides to let you off), and anything over 6 points results in a loss of license.
Yet another advantage of hybrids. The battery never needs to be replaced, unless you abuse it (frequent drains to empty). Toyota tested their Prius, and the battery lasted 300,000 miles before it showed any kind of degradation. That's equivalent to how long most gasoline engines last.
>>>I wonder what an EV1 with a modern battery and (hopefully Japanese) motor
It used a NiMH battery and an A.C. Propulsion-designed motor. That's about as good as you can get. You could replace it with Lithium battery, but that's not going to change the overall efficiency by much.
>>>So what you're saying is that you were driving too slowly, in the wrong lane and you knew it.
Racing 80mph down the left lane when there's a roadblock just 0.9 miles ahead is stupid. It's also extremely dangerous; what if one of the slow-moving 5 mph cars from the right lane suddenly pulls-out in front of you??? BAM!
Driving down the left lane at a sedate 30-40 mph is the logical and safest course under construction conditions. You would understand that if you were a good driver (which apparently you are not). In fact in my state, moving faster than 40 in a construction zone results in an instant loss of license.
>>>Not too bad for a car on the market 9-12 years ago when the Prius and Insight weren't even on the market
Actually the EV1 and the Prius/Insight were all on the market during the same time span (1999, 2000, 2001). That's why ACEEE.org did a direct comparison between them, and determined the EV1/Prius to be equally-clean, and the Insight to be about 10% cleaner. The Rav4 EV was also included on the list, and determined to be just 1% lower than the EV1.
The data is on their website... you just need to do a little digging.
Ahh, but you are quoting a generic definition of pollutant. The legal definition is quite different. The EPA and the CARB's mission is making sure cars don't kill people with smog-forming chemicals like Carbon Monoxide, Nitric Oxides, Hydrocarbons, or Particulate Matter. Short-term goals (don't destroy lungs) are their primary mission.
That's why modern cars are designed to minimize lung-destroying pollutants, while old 1970s-era cars were not. Modern cars reduce smog; old 70s-era cars create it. Modern cars help people breathe easier; old 70s-era cars help people die faster through respiratory distress.
Also:
Our human ancestors lived in an environment where the north and south poles were completely devoid of ice. They did just fine; we will do just fine as well after our poles melt. I'm not scared of the future. On the contrary I think it will be extremely beneficial to turn barren Canada and Russia into vibrant fertile cropland. Maybe at last we can end world hunger.
I thought we were discussing cellphones, not sicknesses? Quote: "The same is true with cellular communication -- people were fine without it at the time, but they have grown fairly dependent on it today."
I have a $5 a month cellphone and barely use it. I can survive just fine without it, and so too can everybody else, except possibly those addicted to talking (gossips).
>>>I was pretty sure that the point of whitespace was to broadcast BETWEEN the channels and not on top of them.....
Yes, but if the whitespace devices don't detect WPHL 17 (because it's too weak, or other flaw), then yes the WSD will broadcast directly over top of it. I could be sitting watching 17, and suddenly an Ipod starts broadcasting directly over top of the Phillies game.
Also there's no "in between" on TV channels. WPHL 17 sits directly next to 18 which sits directly next to 19. So if a whitespace device broadcasts on channel 18, its transmission will still "spillover" onto the top half of channel 17, and that too will disrupt DTV.
And then there's cable. Cable companies have determined that WSDs transmissions can be picked-up by open jacks in walls, thereby disrupting cable reception too!
No such survey exists (to my knowledge) but speedtest.net provides some interesting data. The fastest regions the U.S. are clustered in the densely-populated Northeast. Europe's fastest regions are mostly ex-communist states. Canada's fastest province (B.C.) is a distant ~30th place.
NORTH AMERICA - 5.2 Mbit/s EUROPE - 5.0 Mbit/s
FASTEST STATES (across both continents) 11.2 Lithuania 10.2 Sweden 9.1 Delaware 9.1 Romania 8.9 Latvia 8.6 Washington State 8.2 Rhode Island 8.2 Bulgaria 8.0 New Jersey 7.8 Massachusetts 7.8 Netherlands 7.4 Virginia 7.1 New York 6.9 Utah/Illinois 6.8 Colorado 6.8 Germany . . . 5.4 British Columbia, Canada 4.8 Nova Scotia 4.5 Quebec
I just checked my Verizon DSL account. It turns out it does have different levels:
50 hours == $7. 150 hour == $13 unlimited== $15
I had no idea there were various time limits! I just bought the "unlimited" service, because that's what was advertised. I guess it's similar to how Cable companies don't advertise their low-cost $15 a month option. They want you to buy the expensive $60 a month package and remain ignorant about lower-cost option.
In the U.S., only people who use the roads pay for the upkeep. Someone who rides a subway every day doesn't pay the road tax (collected at gas pumps). Onlt the drivers pay for the paving of roads. The same is true with U.S. mail; you only pay if you send a letter or box. People who don't use U.S. Post don't pay.
So the internet analogy is not perfect, but close. The more you drive, the more you pay in road taxes. Likewise the more you download, the more you should pay in internet "taxes" (bills).
Slashdot Mirror
Quoted for Truth:
>>>>>>
I agree completely with you electrictroy.... That's the big problem though, if you've got a sweet antenna setup, the white space devices can decide some of the channels you can pick up are idle and blast a signal right over the TV signal.
And, in fact, already have during several FCC prototype tests... (Google etc. have claimed the prototype they provided was defective.. well.. if manufacturing defects can cause the device to fail noisy, it fails as far as I'm concerned.. and the FCC.)
>>>
I guess you missed the Slashdot article about gov't adding new "black boxes" to ISP buildings. These black boxes let the government see every website you've visited, and perhaps during the next election (2012) they'll be able to do more than just read Joe the Plumber's license. They'll also be able to see his websurfing habits. (Or some other citizen.)
And then we'll watch as the govt/media work together to leak the information ("shocking news - John Q. visits playboy.com!") and destroy an innocent person's life. Re-read the grandparent post.
>>>How many times do we have to get hit for us not to finally retaliate and defend.
Ever heard the phrase "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek"? Just because some invades your house and kills your wife, doesn't justify going on a killing spree to execute all thieves/murders (vigilante justice). Just because 3000 civilians got killed on 9/11, doesn't justify killing 20,000 Iraqis and 10,000 Afghanis. That makes US the true terrorists.
>>>There are some things that youngsters should not be exposed to.
I disagree. Better to expose them now when you can answer questions, rather than wait until their in their college dorm and encountering all kinds of new things (like goatse) and you're not there to guide them.
Also "for the children" doesn't justify the dumbing-down of the internet to the level of a 5-year-old. The internet is a place for ADULT discussions, and it would be stupid to remove all adult-level intelligence from it. It would be the death of one of humanity's most useful tools.
>>>to the tune of 3,000 civilians in a well orchestrated sneak attack.
And we killed 20,000 innocents in Iraq and 10,000 innocents in Afghanistan, so WE have become the terrorists as well. We have become the evil. The proper response was to mourn the losses, and tighten border patrols, not go on a killing spree of revenge.
Well, if you cross that same bridge every day, you'd be paying $60 a month. The EZpass reduces that amount to 20 cents per crossover, or just $12 a month.
Listen carefully: Obama has discontinued the Bush tax cuts.
That means we will ALL be paying more taxes next year. More. Not less. More taxes.
>>>This wealth will allow them greater buying power which will mean more customers for Joe.
Imagine if NOBODY paid income taxes unless they earned 1 million dollars (the real rich people). They'd still pay all the other taxes (sales, electric, phone, cell, gasoline, natural gas), so they'd be contributing to society, but not income tax. That would REALLY give customers more money to spend.
Bzzz.
The ISPs have to rent T-100 or T-1000 lines to connect their local network to the rest of the world. Those lines are provided by somebody, and billed to the local neighborhood ISP. So the original question, "How much do ISPs pay?" was a legitimate question.
(1) My Amish neighbors don't shop at the store; they grow their own food. So, no, not "everyone" pays the toll. (2) Oh, they also don't pay income or medicare or SS tax, so they don't contribute to the general fund either.
You need to avoid uses words like "everyone". There's always exceptions.
Verizon.
Dish.
Directv.
Some other satellite service.
Phoneline Dialup (I use Netscape ISP with browsing almost as fast as my DSL; although it can't handle any streaming faster than youtube.)
>>>I am so fed up with people who think they are in the right when they hold up traffic.
Me too, but that wasn't the situation here.
>
>>>They should have their licenses revoked, they are a danger on the roads.
>
In my state, YOU are the one whose license would be revoked. Moving faster than 40 in a construction zone results in an instant 9 points demeanor (unless the cop decides to let you off), and anything over 6 points results in a loss of license.
Yet another advantage of hybrids. The battery never needs to be replaced, unless you abuse it (frequent drains to empty). Toyota tested their Prius, and the battery lasted 300,000 miles before it showed any kind of degradation. That's equivalent to how long most gasoline engines last.
P.S.
>>>I wonder what an EV1 with a modern battery and (hopefully Japanese) motor
It used a NiMH battery and an A.C. Propulsion-designed motor. That's about as good as you can get. You could replace it with Lithium battery, but that's not going to change the overall efficiency by much.
>>>So what you're saying is that you were driving too slowly, in the wrong lane and you knew it.
Racing 80mph down the left lane when there's a roadblock just 0.9 miles ahead is stupid. It's also extremely dangerous; what if one of the slow-moving 5 mph cars from the right lane suddenly pulls-out in front of you??? BAM!
Driving down the left lane at a sedate 30-40 mph is the logical and safest course under construction conditions. You would understand that if you were a good driver (which apparently you are not). In fact in my state, moving faster than 40 in a construction zone results in an instant loss of license.
>>>Not too bad for a car on the market 9-12 years ago when the Prius and Insight weren't even on the market
Actually the EV1 and the Prius/Insight were all on the market during the same time span (1999, 2000, 2001). That's why ACEEE.org did a direct comparison between them, and determined the EV1/Prius to be equally-clean, and the Insight to be about 10% cleaner. The Rav4 EV was also included on the list, and determined to be just 1% lower than the EV1.
The data is on their website... you just need to do a little digging.
Ahh, but you are quoting a generic definition of pollutant. The legal definition is quite different. The EPA and the CARB's mission is making sure cars don't kill people with smog-forming chemicals like Carbon Monoxide, Nitric Oxides, Hydrocarbons, or Particulate Matter. Short-term goals (don't destroy lungs) are their primary mission.
That's why modern cars are designed to minimize lung-destroying pollutants, while old 1970s-era cars were not. Modern cars reduce smog; old 70s-era cars create it. Modern cars help people breathe easier; old 70s-era cars help people die faster through respiratory distress.
Also:
Our human ancestors lived in an environment where the north and south poles were completely devoid of ice. They did just fine; we will do just fine as well after our poles melt. I'm not scared of the future. On the contrary I think it will be extremely beneficial to turn barren Canada and Russia into vibrant fertile cropland. Maybe at last we can end world hunger.
I thought we were discussing cellphones, not sicknesses? Quote: "The same is true with cellular communication -- people were fine without it at the time, but they have grown fairly dependent on it today."
I have a $5 a month cellphone and barely use it. I can survive just fine without it, and so too can everybody else, except possibly those addicted to talking (gossips).
>>>I was pretty sure that the point of whitespace was to broadcast BETWEEN the channels and not on top of them.....
Yes, but if the whitespace devices don't detect WPHL 17 (because it's too weak, or other flaw), then yes the WSD will broadcast directly over top of it. I could be sitting watching 17, and suddenly an Ipod starts broadcasting directly over top of the Phillies game.
Also there's no "in between" on TV channels. WPHL 17 sits directly next to 18 which sits directly next to 19. So if a whitespace device broadcasts on channel 18, its transmission will still "spillover" onto the top half of channel 17, and that too will disrupt DTV.
And then there's cable. Cable companies have determined that WSDs transmissions can be picked-up by open jacks in walls, thereby disrupting cable reception too!
WSDs need to stay off channels 2-51.
No such survey exists (to my knowledge) but speedtest.net provides some interesting data. The fastest regions the U.S. are clustered in the densely-populated Northeast. Europe's fastest regions are mostly ex-communist states. Canada's fastest province (B.C.) is a distant ~30th place.
NORTH AMERICA - 5.2 Mbit/s
EUROPE - 5.0 Mbit/s
FASTEST STATES (across both continents)
11.2 Lithuania
10.2 Sweden
9.1 Delaware
9.1 Romania
8.9 Latvia
8.6 Washington State
8.2 Rhode Island
8.2 Bulgaria
8.0 New Jersey
7.8 Massachusetts
7.8 Netherlands
7.4 Virginia
7.1 New York
6.9 Utah/Illinois
6.8 Colorado
6.8 Germany
.
.
.
5.4 British Columbia, Canada
4.8 Nova Scotia
4.5 Quebec
$120 a month???
Pass. I'm only paying $15 a month currently.
>>>full speed until you hit your quota, then drop the speed to 64kpbs
Works for me. I can still bittorrent Doctor Who, SG Atlantis, or Eureka at the rate of 1 new episode every 5 hours. I'm a patient person. :-)
>>>what is essentially business class UPLOADING..... why P2P is essentially massive theft of service?
If you're feeling guilty, call your ISP and ask for a business-level connection. They'll be happy to charge you $100 a month for no cap usage.
>>>From my ISP's RSS feed:
Verizon DSL doesn't have any tool like that. I have no idea how much I've used so far.
I just checked my Verizon DSL account. It turns out it does have different levels:
50 hours == $7.
150 hour == $13
unlimited== $15
I had no idea there were various time limits! I just bought the "unlimited" service, because that's what was advertised. I guess it's similar to how Cable companies don't advertise their low-cost $15 a month option. They want you to buy the expensive $60 a month package and remain ignorant about lower-cost option.
In the U.S., only people who use the roads pay for the upkeep. Someone who rides a subway every day doesn't pay the road tax (collected at gas pumps). Onlt the drivers pay for the paving of roads. The same is true with U.S. mail; you only pay if you send a letter or box. People who don't use U.S. Post don't pay.
So the internet analogy is not perfect, but close. The more you drive, the more you pay in road taxes. Likewise the more you download, the more you should pay in internet "taxes" (bills).