Not all Java implementations have mark and sweep GC, which is the primitive form of GC of which you speak. However, there are still plenty of reasons to dislike Java beyond that.;)
ObjC also has a primitive form of GC, even more primitive than mark and sweep. The best GC you can probably get is a generational system, not surprisingly found in most (all?) current Smalltalk implemenations and good Common Lisp implemenations. You get the best of both worlds- unlike the GC in ObjC, you're not stuck looking over your sholder to deal with it's primitive form of GC (found also in Python still?) and unlike Java, it doesn't do one huge mark-and-sweep at any given time- it's always doing a little GC.
And in being a compiled language, Objective-C lacks a handful of cool and handy dynamic features that Smalltalk has, but Obj-C doesn't.
It would be nice if Objective-C had blocks aka closures aka anonymous subs. Blocks are so very appropriate for a lot of tasks, and in Obj-C you're stuck doing them in the same crappy way you'd do them in C.
I'm probably one of the few who is more so interested in a good OS than one that is "buzzword compliant." It's true that I'd much rather have a Unix-based OS than something like the kernel in OS 9, more than both of those, I'd much prefer a truly modern OS. Unix is stale, its ideas are very much based in the 60s way of doing things. Not that anything is wrong per se about that- if it works and you don't mind it, use it. But I expect more of a computer and of an OS, and calling Mac OS X "modern" is a lie.
Hell, even BeOS, which didn't break the status quo much at all is at least a step in the right direction.
If I could, I'd ditch these Unix machines for the chance to run a real OS, a truly scriptable OS, an OS with no flat files- just objects. It would make data interchance so much easier. Oh well!
Was this OpenDoc-in-QT part of the massive cool rewrite of QT that was going down? A bunch of years back, Apple was rewriting QT, giving it hypercard functionality and a version of HyperTalk that was compiled to bytecode and with a lot more functionality. Of course, there were VMs for this language/system for Mac OS and Windows.
The term "Apache 2.0 r00ted on NetWare" implies that NetWare is an operating system- I was under the impression NetWare ran as a bunch of services on top of Win NT or something like that. Is that the case, or does NetWare run as an OS, directly on the hardware?
If it is the former, is there a special version of Apache that uses NetWare on top of Windows? If this is the case, I assume that it is using the IPX protocol instead of TCP/IP... what is the advantage of this? If it's not this, what is the difference? What makes Apache on NetWare different than Apache on Windows?
And since I've used the Newton OS 2.1 and WinCE with CalliGrapher 6, I can easily win in a typing contest with a veteran Graf user *and* a old-timer Blackberry or similar thumboard user.:)
Well, read the language list page again. You could submit a program written in a language not on their list, provided they could easily install a compiler/interpreter/VM for the language on their RH 7.3/x86 system.
Also, VB doesn't have functional features, to my knowledge. Perhaps VB.NET does, but not VB 6. But I'd be interesting in being corrected- how does one create an anonymous function/anon sub/lambda closure in VB?
Of course, VB doesn't fit either of these criteria. Which begs the question- why the hell did some people think the VB comment to be interesting and not Funny?
Actually, I remember a language called FIFTH that I found on a BBS probably almost 10 years ago... not the joke one another reply mentioned, even. It was based on Forth, but was OO, it claimed. Yes, there are plenty of OO systems for various Forths, big and small, but it had a bigger standard lib too.
Well, I suppose a desktop was involved at some point. I downloaded the packages via a dialup connection. Newton Internet Enabler was installed on the Newt when I got it- if it weren't, I suppose I'd have to connect with a desktop to install that, to allow the self-sufficiency.
But this desktop involvement is the kind that could be extended to *any* usage of a non-entirely PDA network. So, fetching a webpage surely would also touch a desktop at some point as well.
You can grow just about everything if you buy a small florescent bulb- you can get them pretty cheap. Mount it under a cabinet/shelf on your desk, and leave it on when you're at work. No need to buy a more expensive "grow lamp" either, unless you really want to encourage flowering. The only diff between grow lamps and regular florescent lamps is that grow lamps output more than regulars on the red band, which encourages flowering. (think end-of-summertime sun)
Heh. This post is the worst kind- is it a troll, or just that much ignorance?
I have a Mac. While I am a college student, I'm at a public university. Unlike your college friends, I pay for everything- I have no rich, or even well-off parents. I pay for tuition, rent, food, all clothing and whatever else I want. I payed for my computer with money I earned myself.
I know it may be hard for you to understand, but different people have different priorities. Unless a laptop comparable to my iBook was half the price- around $600, it's not with it to put up with Linux or Windows as an end user. My iBook gets battery life beyond almost any Windows 'book, the software works very well, it is very durable, retains price quite well, and will last longer- which is more than can be said about a $600 WinBook.
I know quite a few other people in similar boats as myself with Macs.
Re:Too big or not to beg
on
Newton Won't Die
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· Score: 3, Informative
Almost forgot-
Unlike the PalmOS and PocketPC, on the Newton you can program apps for the native API using the native language. The very same API and language you'd use if you were developing for Newton OS via a Mac or Windows host. Complete with an IDE and building GUIs, all on the Newton.
Yes, on PalmOS or PocketPC, you can program using various non-native environments, LispMe, Python, etc. There are similar options to this on the Newton, but neither the other "big players" can you do first-class development. I suppose you can program in assembler on the Palm OS and probably call native Palm OS API funcs, but that's hardly how you'd usually do it on the desktop.
I keep track of self-hosted PDA programming environments on this page.
Re:Too big or not to beg
on
Newton Won't Die
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
For a fairly wide range of usertypes, the Newton had the potential to be a desktop replacement. This excludes the kind of people who don't think that a laptop is a satisfactory desktop replacement, namely, 3D gamers. I'm not into that. The only reason I sold my Newton, and the only thing I couldn't do on it that I can on my desktop (er, well, it's an iBook) is program in Squeak. However, I can do this on my Jornada 720, at the expense of everything else working as nicely as it did on the Newton. With the proper knowledge of C and graphics work, I could've had Squeak running on the Newton, but even for that noble cause, having to deal with C for a big project didn't interest me.
Unlike the Palm and for the most part, PocketPC, the Newton didn't need to be teathered to the desktop to be useful. I never sync'd with a desktop, and never needed it to get data or applications. I was able to use a browser and FTP client via ethernet for those sorts of things, just like I would on the desktop. Apple's intent wasn't to completely replace the Mac- true, but it does a pretty good job at it. Most of the missing pieces that are in the work habits of other users could easily, in most cases I'd surmise, be solved by having an application or analog of one that just didn't exist on the Newton.
Again, this excludes hardcore 3D gamers- there is an OpenGL subset available on the Newton- but a 162 MHz StrongARM wouldn't cut it for Quake 3.:P
The screen is indeed big enough. By "big" I am talking physical dimensions, screensize. I could see why some people would like a larger resolution, but I did fine with 480x320.
For those things, I never wished I had a much larger screen. My girlfriend has a webpad with a 10" 1024x768 screen, and it's much too large to be comfortable for me.
I was a Newton user for a while, but I don't think it's fair to just dismiss stories of well it worked as just reality-distortion-tunneling of "Newton die-hards." My handwriting was (and still is) a big mess, and with the Newton, I was able to get 40-45+ WPM and around 99.4% accuracy. Sorry, but the days of Eat up Martha are long ago, and the Newton 2100 is not the Newton of 1993. Newton HWR *learns* as you correct it, so it works fine even with messy handwriting like mine.
The Newton has the size of screen of a legal-pad- obviously, people manage to use the paper version of those, do they not?
If grey is only one color, and by that, the Newton only can display one color, then my iBook can only display three colors- red, green and blue.
Re:Any chance of someone else building them?
on
Newton Won't Die
·
· Score: 3, Informative
There have been multiple attempts to discuss licensing the Newton OS from Apple for the sake of open source but also for commercial purposes. Apple isn't interested in letting others have access to Newton technology, even if money is offered.
Indeed, Jobs hated the Newton- some say because it was the brainchild of the man who ousted him. Jobs bought back the spun-off Newton, Inc. and killed it, after they were actually turning a profit for a couple of quarters.
Indeed, Palm is tanking because it's the same product that they released back in '97. The first Newton, back in 1993, did more than the Palm does today, not to mention the Newton OS 2.1 on the 2100 in 1997.
The PocketPC does more, making it more Newton like in some ways, but it still doesn't do it all in an integreated, seamless way. You also have to put up with that piddly 320x240 screen.
Heh. Might be a bit hard to do on his mini-laptop with its 45 minutes of battery life.:P
Re:Just another toy
on
Newton Won't Die
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· Score: 3, Interesting
4 MB of RAM is enough for a Newton. On a computer with a non-traditional architecture, RAM doesn't mean the same thing as on your Win2k box. You don't need 80 MB of RAM on a Newton just to be able to connect to the net.
Nope, can't run Apache+PHP+mySQL. Someone could work on a port, but there wouldn't be much use in it. There does exist a web server for the Newton, including a framework for the creation of web applications; the NewtonScript language is built in; and there is an object database at the heart of Newton OS.
Yes, you can connect to/from the Newton using standard ethernet, serial (PPP/SLIP) or wireless connections.
I agree, no reason to look to other solutions, and I myself recently switched from the Newton to another platform. But, there's also no need to ignore the strengths of other solutions.
Re:Newton or Pad comp?
on
Newton Won't Die
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The Newton is more than simply nostalgia. Even today, it is still very useful and still has more power than most PDAs people are using now a days with a 162 MHz StrongARM processor.
I personally always *liked* the size of the Newton. Sure, it wouldn't hurt if it were lighter, but I am the kind of person that likes to get a lot of use out of a PDA device- not just use it to keep track of appointments. I took all of my college lecture notes on my Newton, read a lot of ebooks/websites, IRCd, read/wrote email, even wrote full-blown Newton OS applications on the device itself.
Then I switched to WinCE so I dedicate more time to developing and testing my PDA OS/environment, which aims to be Newton OS replacement for me. It's hard to get everything working as smooth as it did on the Newton. I'd much rather go back to my Newton, and I regret switching.:(
Re:I'm not trolling
on
Newton Won't Die
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I've been a longtime computer nerd and a Mac user for the last 3 years. I used to BBS a lot, and have been to a goodly amount of runs and meets, meeting up with people I've known over the ether.
In the Mac people I've known, a lot of them tend to have much less full of the anti-social nerd in them than do the Windows and Linux communities. The Mac tends to draw people that are more "hip." They tend to be people with a real life and real jobs (often not computer related) that happen to really love their Mac, whereas a lot of Windows and Linux geeks moreso tend to be people that seem to have lost sight of anything other than getting their computer to crash once less a week, or in compiling some package that no one else has, so they can namedrop later in IRC.
A lot of Mac users are these artist types. They are people who love the Mac because it does what they want, as a tool, and because they are more emotionally-driven people, who value aspects of the Mac hardware and the Mac OS that are lost on people with no artistic sense.
That said, I'm completely outside these types. I'm far from hip, and definately not interested in being it. I did ramble off many stereotypes, and I've known all kinds- you just definately do see more of these artsy hipster types in the Mac community than in the PC world.
Slashdot Mirror
It just occured to you that "the Slashdot effect" is a DDoS attack? :P
Not all Java implementations have mark and sweep GC, which is the primitive form of GC of which you speak. However, there are still plenty of reasons to dislike Java beyond that. ;)
ObjC also has a primitive form of GC, even more primitive than mark and sweep. The best GC you can probably get is a generational system, not surprisingly found in most (all?) current Smalltalk implemenations and good Common Lisp implemenations. You get the best of both worlds- unlike the GC in ObjC, you're not stuck looking over your sholder to deal with it's primitive form of GC (found also in Python still?) and unlike Java, it doesn't do one huge mark-and-sweep at any given time- it's always doing a little GC.
And in being a compiled language, Objective-C lacks a handful of cool and handy dynamic features that Smalltalk has, but Obj-C doesn't.
It would be nice if Objective-C had blocks aka closures aka anonymous subs. Blocks are so very appropriate for a lot of tasks, and in Obj-C you're stuck doing them in the same crappy way you'd do them in C.
I'm probably one of the few who is more so interested in a good OS than one that is "buzzword compliant." It's true that I'd much rather have a Unix-based OS than something like the kernel in OS 9, more than both of those, I'd much prefer a truly modern OS. Unix is stale, its ideas are very much based in the 60s way of doing things. Not that anything is wrong per se about that- if it works and you don't mind it, use it. But I expect more of a computer and of an OS, and calling Mac OS X "modern" is a lie.
Hell, even BeOS, which didn't break the status quo much at all is at least a step in the right direction.
If I could, I'd ditch these Unix machines for the chance to run a real OS, a truly scriptable OS, an OS with no flat files- just objects. It would make data interchance so much easier. Oh well!
(And yes, I'm a Mac user.)
Was this OpenDoc-in-QT part of the massive cool rewrite of QT that was going down? A bunch of years back, Apple was rewriting QT, giving it hypercard functionality and a version of HyperTalk that was compiled to bytecode and with a lot more functionality. Of course, there were VMs for this language/system for Mac OS and Windows.
What is the deal with NetWare, exactly?
:)
The term "Apache 2.0 r00ted on NetWare" implies that NetWare is an operating system- I was under the impression NetWare ran as a bunch of services on top of Win NT or something like that. Is that the case, or does NetWare run as an OS, directly on the hardware?
If it is the former, is there a special version of Apache that uses NetWare on top of Windows? If this is the case, I assume that it is using the IPX protocol instead of TCP/IP... what is the advantage of this? If it's not this, what is the difference? What makes Apache on NetWare different than Apache on Windows?
Any insight would be much appreciated-
Note the part where the OBOS team says that the driver is barely tested. B-e-t-a. :)
And since I've used the Newton OS 2.1 and WinCE with CalliGrapher 6, I can easily win in a typing contest with a veteran Graf user *and* a old-timer Blackberry or similar thumboard user. :)
Here is a list.
Back in the day, there were quite a few options for COREWORE-like games/contests on BBS DOS CD archives, like Simtel.
Well, read the language list page again. You could submit a program written in a language not on their list, provided they could easily install a compiler/interpreter/VM for the language on their RH 7.3/x86 system.
Also, VB doesn't have functional features, to my knowledge. Perhaps VB.NET does, but not VB 6. But I'd be interesting in being corrected- how does one create an anonymous function/anon sub/lambda closure in VB?
Of course, VB doesn't fit either of these criteria. Which begs the question- why the hell did some people think the VB comment to be interesting and not Funny?
Actually, I remember a language called FIFTH that I found on a BBS probably almost 10 years ago... not the joke one another reply mentioned, even. It was based on Forth, but was OO, it claimed. Yes, there are plenty of OO systems for various Forths, big and small, but it had a bigger standard lib too.
Well, I suppose a desktop was involved at some point. I downloaded the packages via a dialup connection. Newton Internet Enabler was installed on the Newt when I got it- if it weren't, I suppose I'd have to connect with a desktop to install that, to allow the self-sufficiency.
But this desktop involvement is the kind that could be extended to *any* usage of a non-entirely PDA network. So, fetching a webpage surely would also touch a desktop at some point as well.
Pothos are plants they do great on neglect- they do fine in low light and not-so frequent watering.
As always, Google gives us some good articles.
You can grow just about everything if you buy a small florescent bulb- you can get them pretty cheap. Mount it under a cabinet/shelf on your desk, and leave it on when you're at work. No need to buy a more expensive "grow lamp" either, unless you really want to encourage flowering. The only diff between grow lamps and regular florescent lamps is that grow lamps output more than regulars on the red band, which encourages flowering. (think end-of-summertime sun)
hahaha, BOOYA!
:)
sad thing though, is that Mr. AC probably hit the nail on the head.
Heh. This post is the worst kind- is it a troll, or just that much ignorance?
I have a Mac. While I am a college student, I'm at a public university. Unlike your college friends, I pay for everything- I have no rich, or even well-off parents. I pay for tuition, rent, food, all clothing and whatever else I want. I payed for my computer with money I earned myself.
I know it may be hard for you to understand, but different people have different priorities. Unless a laptop comparable to my iBook was half the price- around $600, it's not with it to put up with Linux or Windows as an end user. My iBook gets battery life beyond almost any Windows 'book, the software works very well, it is very durable, retains price quite well, and will last longer- which is more than can be said about a $600 WinBook.
I know quite a few other people in similar boats as myself with Macs.
Almost forgot-
Unlike the PalmOS and PocketPC, on the Newton you can program apps for the native API using the native language. The very same API and language you'd use if you were developing for Newton OS via a Mac or Windows host. Complete with an IDE and building GUIs, all on the Newton.
Yes, on PalmOS or PocketPC, you can program using various non-native environments, LispMe, Python, etc. There are similar options to this on the Newton, but neither the other "big players" can you do first-class development. I suppose you can program in assembler on the Palm OS and probably call native Palm OS API funcs, but that's hardly how you'd usually do it on the desktop.
I keep track of self-hosted PDA programming environments on this page.
For a fairly wide range of usertypes, the Newton had the potential to be a desktop replacement. This excludes the kind of people who don't think that a laptop is a satisfactory desktop replacement, namely, 3D gamers. I'm not into that. The only reason I sold my Newton, and the only thing I couldn't do on it that I can on my desktop (er, well, it's an iBook) is program in Squeak. However, I can do this on my Jornada 720, at the expense of everything else working as nicely as it did on the Newton. With the proper knowledge of C and graphics work, I could've had Squeak running on the Newton, but even for that noble cause, having to deal with C for a big project didn't interest me.
:P
Unlike the Palm and for the most part, PocketPC, the Newton didn't need to be teathered to the desktop to be useful. I never sync'd with a desktop, and never needed it to get data or applications. I was able to use a browser and FTP client via ethernet for those sorts of things, just like I would on the desktop. Apple's intent wasn't to completely replace the Mac- true, but it does a pretty good job at it. Most of the missing pieces that are in the work habits of other users could easily, in most cases I'd surmise, be solved by having an application or analog of one that just didn't exist on the Newton.
Again, this excludes hardcore 3D gamers- there is an OpenGL subset available on the Newton- but a 162 MHz StrongARM wouldn't cut it for Quake 3.
The screen is indeed big enough. By "big" I am talking physical dimensions, screensize. I could see why some people would like a larger resolution, but I did fine with 480x320.
For those things, I never wished I had a much larger screen. My girlfriend has a webpad with a 10" 1024x768 screen, and it's much too large to be comfortable for me.
I was a Newton user for a while, but I don't think it's fair to just dismiss stories of well it worked as just reality-distortion-tunneling of "Newton die-hards." My handwriting was (and still is) a big mess, and with the Newton, I was able to get 40-45+ WPM and around 99.4% accuracy. Sorry, but the days of Eat up Martha are long ago, and the Newton 2100 is not the Newton of 1993. Newton HWR *learns* as you correct it, so it works fine even with messy handwriting like mine.
The Newton has the size of screen of a legal-pad- obviously, people manage to use the paper version of those, do they not?
If grey is only one color, and by that, the Newton only can display one color, then my iBook can only display three colors- red, green and blue.
There have been multiple attempts to discuss licensing the Newton OS from Apple for the sake of open source but also for commercial purposes. Apple isn't interested in letting others have access to Newton technology, even if money is offered.
Indeed, Jobs hated the Newton- some say because it was the brainchild of the man who ousted him. Jobs bought back the spun-off Newton, Inc. and killed it, after they were actually turning a profit for a couple of quarters.
Indeed, Palm is tanking because it's the same product that they released back in '97. The first Newton, back in 1993, did more than the Palm does today, not to mention the Newton OS 2.1 on the 2100 in 1997.
The PocketPC does more, making it more Newton like in some ways, but it still doesn't do it all in an integreated, seamless way. You also have to put up with that piddly 320x240 screen.
Heh. Might be a bit hard to do on his mini-laptop with its 45 minutes of battery life. :P
4 MB of RAM is enough for a Newton. On a computer with a non-traditional architecture, RAM doesn't mean the same thing as on your Win2k box. You don't need 80 MB of RAM on a Newton just to be able to connect to the net.
Nope, can't run Apache+PHP+mySQL. Someone could work on a port, but there wouldn't be much use in it. There does exist a web server for the Newton, including a framework for the creation of web applications; the NewtonScript language is built in; and there is an object database at the heart of Newton OS.
Yes, you can connect to/from the Newton using standard ethernet, serial (PPP/SLIP) or wireless connections.
I agree, no reason to look to other solutions, and I myself recently switched from the Newton to another platform. But, there's also no need to ignore the strengths of other solutions.
The Newton is more than simply nostalgia. Even today, it is still very useful and still has more power than most PDAs people are using now a days with a 162 MHz StrongARM processor.
:(
I personally always *liked* the size of the Newton. Sure, it wouldn't hurt if it were lighter, but I am the kind of person that likes to get a lot of use out of a PDA device- not just use it to keep track of appointments. I took all of my college lecture notes on my Newton, read a lot of ebooks/websites, IRCd, read/wrote email, even wrote full-blown Newton OS applications on the device itself.
Then I switched to WinCE so I dedicate more time to developing and testing my PDA OS/environment, which aims to be Newton OS replacement for me. It's hard to get everything working as smooth as it did on the Newton. I'd much rather go back to my Newton, and I regret switching.
I've been a longtime computer nerd and a Mac user for the last 3 years. I used to BBS a lot, and have been to a goodly amount of runs and meets, meeting up with people I've known over the ether.
In the Mac people I've known, a lot of them tend to have much less full of the anti-social nerd in them than do the Windows and Linux communities. The Mac tends to draw people that are more "hip." They tend to be people with a real life and real jobs (often not computer related) that happen to really love their Mac, whereas a lot of Windows and Linux geeks moreso tend to be people that seem to have lost sight of anything other than getting their computer to crash once less a week, or in compiling some package that no one else has, so they can namedrop later in IRC.
A lot of Mac users are these artist types. They are people who love the Mac because it does what they want, as a tool, and because they are more emotionally-driven people, who value aspects of the Mac hardware and the Mac OS that are lost on people with no artistic sense.
That said, I'm completely outside these types. I'm far from hip, and definately not interested in being it. I did ramble off many stereotypes, and I've known all kinds- you just definately do see more of these artsy hipster types in the Mac community than in the PC world.