Taken out of context:
It's not just offensive to me... It's offensive to more than a billion people around the world!
For e.g. if a friend of mine was a public figure, but somebody made derogatory and unrepresentative cartoons of him, and published them, I would be offended, and my circle of friends would be offended, but, may be that's still within the bounds of free speech, (although the publisher may be sued which is another story) but overall it wouldn't affect too many people... but when something affects more than a billion people, it's another story...
I am not saying that you offending my hypothetical famous friend is hate crime... and I am certainly not making up a list of arbitrary list of things that I find offensive either... sigh...
does that make any difference? Do you understand what I am trying to get at?
sigh... if you are judging Islam through the "richest Muslim societies", you are totally starting at the wrong place... Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... and again, solely for emphasis, Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... I do applaud free speech in America however, and do agree to advocate it in all societies, but you can't just Islam through those societies just as you can't just Christianity through Americans... Please go start a conversation with an actual practicing believing Muslim and openly ask them what their beliefs are and then judge... and discuss... and have debates... but please don't hate... Thanks.
sigh... if you are judging Islam through the "richest Muslim societies", you are totally starting at the wrong place... Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... and again, solely for emphasis, Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... I do applaud free speech in America however, and do agree to advocate it in all societies, but you can't just Islam through those societies just as you can't just Christianity through Americans... Please go start a conversation with an actual practicing believing Muslim and openly ask them what their beliefs are and then judge... Thanks.
hmm... I didn't realize it was taken down... thanks...
Anyways... I guess non-existence/existence of God is a deep philosophical question with no answer... by I do appreciate your views.
I guess it can be difficult to understand the emotional connection people can have with spiritual guides when one doesn't believe in spirits to begin with... May be if you were Christian, by heart, and believed in Jesus and had a emotional connection to him, or any other example from any other religion, you would understand...
For e.g., Einstein could hypothetically be my biggest hero, but, if he was, I certainly wouldn't be emotionally hurt if somebody drew derogatory pictures of him...
hmm...
There is no such thing as "The Sharia Law"... "Sharia" is different from one country to another, from even one community to another... If you are in North America, or in Europe, or any country for that matter, and know even just one practicing Muslim, they are following the Sharia, but not committing "hate crime". I totally agree that in many countries, especially Saudia Arabia and Iran, the laws are oppressive and downright stupid, under the guise of "Sharia Law", and definitely needs to change, and I already advocate that, but, go ask an average practicing Muslim what Sharia means to them... to my self, it means leading a moral life with certain guidelines, some of which are practical for me, i.e. don't gamble, don't smoke, give money to poor, and some of which are ritualistic for me, i.e. don't eat pork, pray, fast which at the end of the day make my beliefs complete. I totally don't endorse any 'laws' that are of oppressive of women or other minorities... In my definition of Sharia, there are no oppressive laws... that's just simply not part of my definition of Sharia Law...
Lets together try to define criminal...
Is making swastikas on important Jewish religious places, such as synagogues and cemeteries hate crime?
Is making something, that has no intellectual value, and is perceived to be hateful by 1.2 billion people on Earth not hate crime?
If you debated with me, and respectfully told me that you believe there is no God for example, that wouldn't be hate crime... that would be a discussion... even if you said that Muhammad was not a prophet, that's not hate crime... you are stating what you believe...
But if you told me that a person, a religious guide that is dear to me, that is Muhammad, is a terrorist, or like a terrorist, or a suicide bomber, just as the cartoons suggest, it's certainly hateful... full of hate... as a Muslim, to me, those cartoons spew nothing but hate...
Hate is dangerous... since hate is dangerous, it can lead to horrific things that the world witnessed even just 60 years ago... and such hate should be deemed criminal... it should not be accepted as free speech... this is exactly why anti-semitism is considered hate crimes in more than a few countries including one or more European countries..
Do you think anti-Semitism should be considered hate crime?
I am truly ashamed to see, especially as an avid Slashdot reader, that some of the fellow Slashdot readers can be so hateful...
If your post was meant to convey something else, and I misunderstood, I apologize.
I am a Muslim and I renounce all violence and terrorism that occurs by.001% of people who call themselves Muslims and make the rest of well-intentioned Muslims like my self look bad...
I renounce Islamophobia, such as it is shown by Mr Gibson in his film...
Islamophobia is no different than anti-Semitism and if anti-Semitism is hate crime, so is Islamophobia...
Free speech is great as long as people debate respectfully with each other and as long as 'free speech' doesn't become a synonym for 'hate speech' or 'hate crime'
The Danish cartoons were hate crime and so is Mr. Gibson's film...
I am Muslim and I am willing to have an intellectual discussion with someone who respectfully debates with me and argues that Islam is not the right religion or that there is not God, etc... but making derogatory cartoons of what's dear to me is NOTHING but hate crime...
Making negative blanket statements about 1.2 billion VERY VERY diverse Muslims on Earth is also hate crime...
Slashdot Mirror
Taken out of context: It's not just offensive to me... It's offensive to more than a billion people around the world! For e.g. if a friend of mine was a public figure, but somebody made derogatory and unrepresentative cartoons of him, and published them, I would be offended, and my circle of friends would be offended, but, may be that's still within the bounds of free speech, (although the publisher may be sued which is another story) but overall it wouldn't affect too many people... but when something affects more than a billion people, it's another story... I am not saying that you offending my hypothetical famous friend is hate crime... and I am certainly not making up a list of arbitrary list of things that I find offensive either... sigh... does that make any difference? Do you understand what I am trying to get at?
sigh... if you are judging Islam through the "richest Muslim societies", you are totally starting at the wrong place... Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... and again, solely for emphasis, Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... I do applaud free speech in America however, and do agree to advocate it in all societies, but you can't just Islam through those societies just as you can't just Christianity through Americans... Please go start a conversation with an actual practicing believing Muslim and openly ask them what their beliefs are and then judge... and discuss... and have debates... but please don't hate... Thanks.
sigh... if you are judging Islam through the "richest Muslim societies", you are totally starting at the wrong place... Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... and again, solely for emphasis, Christianity is as American as those societies are Islamic... I do applaud free speech in America however, and do agree to advocate it in all societies, but you can't just Islam through those societies just as you can't just Christianity through Americans... Please go start a conversation with an actual practicing believing Muslim and openly ask them what their beliefs are and then judge... Thanks.
hmm... I didn't realize it was taken down... thanks... Anyways... I guess non-existence/existence of God is a deep philosophical question with no answer... by I do appreciate your views. I guess it can be difficult to understand the emotional connection people can have with spiritual guides when one doesn't believe in spirits to begin with... May be if you were Christian, by heart, and believed in Jesus and had a emotional connection to him, or any other example from any other religion, you would understand... For e.g., Einstein could hypothetically be my biggest hero, but, if he was, I certainly wouldn't be emotionally hurt if somebody drew derogatory pictures of him... hmm...
There is no such thing as "The Sharia Law"... "Sharia" is different from one country to another, from even one community to another... If you are in North America, or in Europe, or any country for that matter, and know even just one practicing Muslim, they are following the Sharia, but not committing "hate crime". I totally agree that in many countries, especially Saudia Arabia and Iran, the laws are oppressive and downright stupid, under the guise of "Sharia Law", and definitely needs to change, and I already advocate that, but, go ask an average practicing Muslim what Sharia means to them... to my self, it means leading a moral life with certain guidelines, some of which are practical for me, i.e. don't gamble, don't smoke, give money to poor, and some of which are ritualistic for me, i.e. don't eat pork, pray, fast which at the end of the day make my beliefs complete. I totally don't endorse any 'laws' that are of oppressive of women or other minorities... In my definition of Sharia, there are no oppressive laws... that's just simply not part of my definition of Sharia Law...
Lets together try to define criminal... Is making swastikas on important Jewish religious places, such as synagogues and cemeteries hate crime? Is making something, that has no intellectual value, and is perceived to be hateful by 1.2 billion people on Earth not hate crime? If you debated with me, and respectfully told me that you believe there is no God for example, that wouldn't be hate crime... that would be a discussion... even if you said that Muhammad was not a prophet, that's not hate crime... you are stating what you believe... But if you told me that a person, a religious guide that is dear to me, that is Muhammad, is a terrorist, or like a terrorist, or a suicide bomber, just as the cartoons suggest, it's certainly hateful... full of hate... as a Muslim, to me, those cartoons spew nothing but hate... Hate is dangerous... since hate is dangerous, it can lead to horrific things that the world witnessed even just 60 years ago... and such hate should be deemed criminal... it should not be accepted as free speech... this is exactly why anti-semitism is considered hate crimes in more than a few countries including one or more European countries..
I agree... I renounce all extremist violence... regardless of the religion
Do you think anti-Semitism should be considered hate crime? I am truly ashamed to see, especially as an avid Slashdot reader, that some of the fellow Slashdot readers can be so hateful... If your post was meant to convey something else, and I misunderstood, I apologize.
I am a Muslim and I renounce all violence and terrorism that occurs by .001% of people who call themselves Muslims and make the rest of well-intentioned Muslims like my self look bad...
I renounce Islamophobia, such as it is shown by Mr Gibson in his film...
Islamophobia is no different than anti-Semitism and if anti-Semitism is hate crime, so is Islamophobia...
Free speech is great as long as people debate respectfully with each other and as long as 'free speech' doesn't become a synonym for 'hate speech' or 'hate crime'
The Danish cartoons were hate crime and so is Mr. Gibson's film...
I am Muslim and I am willing to have an intellectual discussion with someone who respectfully debates with me and argues that Islam is not the right religion or that there is not God, etc... but making derogatory cartoons of what's dear to me is NOTHING but hate crime...
Making negative blanket statements about 1.2 billion VERY VERY diverse Muslims on Earth is also hate crime...