I don't want ads. I do want to pay the sites that provide content that's valuable, but not necessarily their monthly or annual fees which are far out of proportion to my use.
Well, no it isn't. Those "small executables" can not function outside the systemd infrastructure
That's weird. I always heard people hold up qmail as being very unix-y because it was a pipeline of small apps with a specific purpose. But those individual apps don't function outside of the qmail infrastructure.
Yes, the systemd binaries have a specific purpose. That's definitely in line with the UNIX philosophy. The alternate approach is for every tool to be a Turing-complete general-purpose processor. Some UNIX tools are that (bash, sed, awk), but not every one is.
Phones and tablets run Linux. Routers run Linux. Smart TVs run Linux. PCs run Linux. It is entirely accurate to describe all of those systems as "Linux."
And that's why it has always been correct to call the POSIX compliant desktop and server systems GNU/Linux.
Again, people posted repro steps, and I gave another example of a systemd bug so why you defending systemd?
Because I copied and pasted those steps into both CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 systems. Exit status was reflected in a "failed" state as expected, it wasn't thrown away. Messages written to stderr were recorded in both the journal and the syslog messages file. The steps described to reproduce the problem do not reproduce the problem on any system I have access to.
Well, I also tried it and could not reproduce those results on either Fedora 21 or CentOS 7. Both systems logged stderr to both the journal and the syslog messages file.
The old init system did not log stderr. If you didn't see an error printed to a tty, it was lost. systemd is actually an improvement in exactly the aspect that ACs complain about through this thread.
There is a specific issue with setting static IP addresses on a CoreOS image that results in systemd deciding to execute both the DHCP and static IP address unit files in parallel - a clear race condition on startup.
What are you talking about? systemd doesn't set up network interfaces.
Do you mean that you can start both NetworkManager and the "network" service? Because in that case, both of them use the same configuration files for an interface (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-), so an interface can't have BOTH DHCP and static addresses. The network service also detects whether NetworkManager is handling an interface and will not configure it if so.
Finally, NetworkManager provides much better logging of its process than the network service does. If you want to debug the latter, you'd do it basically the same way you always have. "set -x" in the ifup scripts and look at the logs (which you have now with systemd, and did not in the past).
Also, look at the journal using "journalctl -u named" to see that the output doesn't log the expected error "named: unknown option '--'". It is not logged
I don't know what to tell you, AC. You're wrong. I test every "example" of systemd problems that ACs post in this thread and they're all wrong. systemd logs daemon stderr to both the journal and to the syslog messages file.
With systemd's policy against stderr, it is swallowed and not shown on the screen and not logged.
A lot of this criticism is coming from AC.
I tested your script on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago. Both logged your "Error that should not be thrown away" to both the journal and to the syslog messages file. Both detected that the service failed, and did not "throw away" its exit status.
And as another user pointed out, the old init system did not save stderr to the logs. systemd is an improvement in this aspect.
The rise of systemd occurred in a top-down manner, which is the exact opposite of how traditional open source software gains acceptance and widespread usage
Do you think Free Software was historically a democracy in which everyone voted and a team of developers slavishly set to work, granting their every wish?
No. Free Software systems were developed by people who needed the features that they wrote. Or wrote the features that they needed. Same thing. However you phrase it, the people who did the work made the decisions about what work was done.
And who is implementing systemd? The people doing the work. People who are willing to do the work to maintain a system which uses a different init will have a system with a different init. It's as simple as that. Slackware is such a system.
No, it doesn't. Exit statuses are the means by which it detects and reports that a service started successfully or failed. Stderr is recorded in both the journal and syslog messages file. I verified both on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago.
Just in case that comment is taken as hyperbole, the video of Walter Scott's shooting was released only BECAUSE of police corruption. The officer lied, and the department backed him.
What really sucks is all of the applications that are so coded around MySQLisms that they don't run on ANSI-compliant engines.
Exactly. That is the primary reason I not only choose not to use MySQL, but actively advocate other SQL engines to other developers. Even where MySQL supports a standard syntax, their documentation tends to encourage their proprietary alternative syntax, making ports that much harder.
No, OpenSSL is not Apache licensed. It has its own license, similar to BSD-with-attribution license. And the thorny issue is that this license is not compatible with the GPL. That's why projects have to modify the GPL to make a specific exception for it.
It's also why Red Hat started work to standardize on Mozilla's NSS as the one true SSL library. However, I'm not sure what the status of that project is.
We aren't all "good at coding," but we know what init system we want.
We aren't all "doctors," but we know we don't want vaccines.
We aren't all "scientists," but we know global warming is a hoax.
I cannot be the only one sick of seeing this crap posted over and over. systemd is being implemented in distributions because a) it is good and b) the people making that decision are the ones qualified to do so.
I would like to, but first we have to educate some of them.
See, the thing is that enough of us are convinced that women are valuable contributors that we want to prioritize their education and get them into the job market so that we can evaluate real world performance. Right now, attitudes like yours are making that difficult.
Does your 'dhclient' not daemon itself and sit on the ethernet ports waiting to re-lease and re-connect as necessary?
That's correct. ISC dhclient, the standard on GNU/Linux distributions, will not renew a lease if it attempts to get one and does not get a response. That might happen if a site loses power and the internet connection is not up when power is restored and the firewall boots. Or if the link is down long enough for dhclient to attempt renewal while the link is down.
SystemD is like PulseAudio, CUPS, and NetworkManager - they're tools to handle the complex desktop use cases that don't exist with servers.
PulseAudio - OK, yes. Clearly desktop oriented.
CUPS - we still need print spoolers. Especially in environments where accounting and chargeback are required. The old print systems were harder to set up than CUPS. This is needed on servers just as much as it is on desktops.
NetworkManager - I used to manage a lot of firewalls that ran CentOS. NetworkManager was nice, because sites where the internet connection was not 100% reliable and not static could disconnect the uplink Ethernet cable, and plug it back in to renew DHCP. Without NetworkManager, they had to power cycle a system with R/W mounted filesystems. That sucked, a lot. NetworkManager also has a place on servers.
It's been exactly two weeks since Slashdot discussed one of several studies that conclude that groups with more women perform better than groups with fewer. Already, readers here seem to have largely forgotten that. It should be pretty obvious why there's a demand to recruit more women into the industry.
No.... it doesn't. Not as far as I can tell. None of the spec sheets I can find list Thunderbolt. Your coworker's Ethernet adapter is almost certainly USB.
When Person A comes to you and asks for your opinion/feedback on person X (which they are considering hiring), you are not allowed to say person X suck
I think you misunderstood what you were told. Or they misunderstood something themselves. What you described is not true.
I'm mostly certain that what someone along the line was trying to describe was that if person X is applying for a job, and you contact their former employers to verify their work history, the former employers are only allowed to confirm or deny your employment. They cannot be used as references. If they give you any kind of feedback on person X other than confirming work history, they could be sued for doing so. That is why work history is listed separately from references.
Slashdot Mirror
The Firefox Sync functionality is disabled, as is the ability to use other addons
The article says that they added support for other add-ons (exactly how is unclear), not that they disabled them.
I don't want ads. I do want to pay the sites that provide content that's valuable, but not necessarily their monthly or annual fees which are far out of proportion to my use.
At least Google is working on an alternative:
https://www.google.com/contrib...
Well, no it isn't. Those "small executables" can not function outside the systemd infrastructure
That's weird. I always heard people hold up qmail as being very unix-y because it was a pipeline of small apps with a specific purpose. But those individual apps don't function outside of the qmail infrastructure.
Yes, the systemd binaries have a specific purpose. That's definitely in line with the UNIX philosophy. The alternate approach is for every tool to be a Turing-complete general-purpose processor. Some UNIX tools are that (bash, sed, awk), but not every one is.
other than a kernel
...which is what Linux is.
Phones and tablets run Linux. Routers run Linux. Smart TVs run Linux. PCs run Linux. It is entirely accurate to describe all of those systems as "Linux."
And that's why it has always been correct to call the POSIX compliant desktop and server systems GNU/Linux.
Again, people posted repro steps, and I gave another example of a systemd bug so why you defending systemd?
Because I copied and pasted those steps into both CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 systems. Exit status was reflected in a "failed" state as expected, it wasn't thrown away. Messages written to stderr were recorded in both the journal and the syslog messages file. The steps described to reproduce the problem do not reproduce the problem on any system I have access to.
Because stderr isn't being hidden under systemd. It's logged to both the journal and the syslog messages file.
Well, I also tried it and could not reproduce those results on either Fedora 21 or CentOS 7. Both systems logged stderr to both the journal and the syslog messages file.
The old init system did not log stderr. If you didn't see an error printed to a tty, it was lost. systemd is actually an improvement in exactly the aspect that ACs complain about through this thread.
the value of a craftsman is in his knowledge and experience of his tools
...and Linux had a bunch of non-POSIX features that went unused because the old init system was meant to be portable.
The people with knowledge of their tools (Linux, in this case) are quite happy to actually be using it rather than letting its features sit idle.
There is a specific issue with setting static IP addresses on a CoreOS image that results in systemd deciding to execute both the DHCP and static IP address unit files in parallel - a clear race condition on startup.
What are you talking about? systemd doesn't set up network interfaces.
Do you mean that you can start both NetworkManager and the "network" service? Because in that case, both of them use the same configuration files for an interface (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-), so an interface can't have BOTH DHCP and static addresses. The network service also detects whether NetworkManager is handling an interface and will not configure it if so.
Finally, NetworkManager provides much better logging of its process than the network service does. If you want to debug the latter, you'd do it basically the same way you always have. "set -x" in the ifup scripts and look at the logs (which you have now with systemd, and did not in the past).
Also, look at the journal using "journalctl -u named" to see that the output doesn't log the expected error "named: unknown option '--'". It is not logged
I don't know what to tell you, AC. You're wrong. I test every "example" of systemd problems that ACs post in this thread and they're all wrong. systemd logs daemon stderr to both the journal and to the syslog messages file.
With systemd's policy against stderr, it is swallowed and not shown on the screen and not logged.
A lot of this criticism is coming from AC.
I tested your script on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago. Both logged your "Error that should not be thrown away" to both the journal and to the syslog messages file. Both detected that the service failed, and did not "throw away" its exit status.
And as another user pointed out, the old init system did not save stderr to the logs. systemd is an improvement in this aspect.
The rise of systemd occurred in a top-down manner, which is the exact opposite of how traditional open source software gains acceptance and widespread usage
Do you think Free Software was historically a democracy in which everyone voted and a team of developers slavishly set to work, granting their every wish?
No. Free Software systems were developed by people who needed the features that they wrote. Or wrote the features that they needed. Same thing. However you phrase it, the people who did the work made the decisions about what work was done.
And who is implementing systemd? The people doing the work. People who are willing to do the work to maintain a system which uses a different init will have a system with a different init. It's as simple as that. Slackware is such a system.
it ignores exit statuses and swallows stderr
No, it doesn't. Exit statuses are the means by which it detects and reports that a service started successfully or failed. Stderr is recorded in both the journal and syslog messages file. I verified both on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago.
Just in case that comment is taken as hyperbole, the video of Walter Scott's shooting was released only BECAUSE of police corruption. The officer lied, and the department backed him.
http://www.mediaite.com/online...
What really sucks is all of the applications that are so coded around MySQLisms that they don't run on ANSI-compliant engines.
Exactly. That is the primary reason I not only choose not to use MySQL, but actively advocate other SQL engines to other developers. Even where MySQL supports a standard syntax, their documentation tends to encourage their proprietary alternative syntax, making ports that much harder.
No, OpenSSL is not Apache licensed. It has its own license, similar to BSD-with-attribution license. And the thorny issue is that this license is not compatible with the GPL. That's why projects have to modify the GPL to make a specific exception for it.
It's also why Red Hat started work to standardize on Mozilla's NSS as the one true SSL library. However, I'm not sure what the status of that project is.
We aren't all "good at coding," but we know what init system we want.
We aren't all "doctors," but we know we don't want vaccines.
We aren't all "scientists," but we know global warming is a hoax.
I cannot be the only one sick of seeing this crap posted over and over. systemd is being implemented in distributions because a) it is good and b) the people making that decision are the ones qualified to do so.
I would like to, but first we have to educate some of them.
See, the thing is that enough of us are convinced that women are valuable contributors that we want to prioritize their education and get them into the job market so that we can evaluate real world performance. Right now, attitudes like yours are making that difficult.
Does your 'dhclient' not daemon itself and sit on the ethernet ports waiting to re-lease and re-connect as necessary?
That's correct. ISC dhclient, the standard on GNU/Linux distributions, will not renew a lease if it attempts to get one and does not get a response. That might happen if a site loses power and the internet connection is not up when power is restored and the firewall boots. Or if the link is down long enough for dhclient to attempt renewal while the link is down.
SystemD is like PulseAudio, CUPS, and NetworkManager - they're tools to handle the complex desktop use cases that don't exist with servers.
PulseAudio - OK, yes. Clearly desktop oriented.
CUPS - we still need print spoolers. Especially in environments where accounting and chargeback are required. The old print systems were harder to set up than CUPS. This is needed on servers just as much as it is on desktops.
NetworkManager - I used to manage a lot of firewalls that ran CentOS. NetworkManager was nice, because sites where the internet connection was not 100% reliable and not static could disconnect the uplink Ethernet cable, and plug it back in to renew DHCP. Without NetworkManager, they had to power cycle a system with R/W mounted filesystems. That sucked, a lot. NetworkManager also has a place on servers.
It's been exactly two weeks since Slashdot discussed one of several studies that conclude that groups with more women perform better than groups with fewer. Already, readers here seem to have largely forgotten that. It should be pretty obvious why there's a demand to recruit more women into the industry.
I love Inkscape and want to use it, but as long as there is no proper CMYK / printing support it's pretty useless for profession work.
What the fuck is it with design people acting like their profession is the only one there is?
There's a whole world of professional work to be done for design on the web, in mobile apps, etc that doesn't need CMYK.
Thunderbolt comes with MS Surface
No.... it doesn't. Not as far as I can tell. None of the spec sheets I can find list Thunderbolt. Your coworker's Ethernet adapter is almost certainly USB.
OpenSSL remains the only portable SSL library that can be used by both open source and commercial developers alike
Kind of. Its license actually isn't compatible with the GPL, so there's a whole lot of Free Software developers that can't use it.
When Person A comes to you and asks for your opinion/feedback on person X (which they are considering hiring), you are not allowed to say person X suck
I think you misunderstood what you were told. Or they misunderstood something themselves. What you described is not true.
I'm mostly certain that what someone along the line was trying to describe was that if person X is applying for a job, and you contact their former employers to verify their work history, the former employers are only allowed to confirm or deny your employment. They cannot be used as references. If they give you any kind of feedback on person X other than confirming work history, they could be sued for doing so. That is why work history is listed separately from references.