I started using it as a replacement for Latitude when Latitude went away, but the software has gone way downhill since then (wish I could revert to an old version). Now it's all about (poor) calorie counts and sleep tracking. The map that you used to be able to have on your timeline with precise positioning is now hidden, no longer on the timeline, and only moves you in big blocks, with a more awkward interface. The timeline shows you "browsing" and "phone call" and the like, but you can't click on them to see *what* you were browsing, *who* was calling (let alone the contents of the call), etc.
1) I love datasets. If I decide later that I want to, say, check how long it usually takes me to drive from Point A to Point B, or see if I noticed an earthquake on a particular day or really bloody anything I think up later, I want the data.
2) I like being able to look up things about my past. E.g., a coworker says "Oh, hey, I don't see you signed in on July 6th - do you know why?" I can go back and see "Oh yeah, I was sick then" or "I was in, but I was in a rush because of A and B and forgot to sign in" or "Oh yeah, I took a day of vacation then, did the vacation registration not go through?"
3) Sometimes my memory isn't great. It's great to have an "artificial memory" that never forgets
4) The inevitable "He said" / "she said" argument. You have proof right on-hand. Prove it to yourself first, and if you're right, prove it to the other person.
5) Contextualizing the past. Why do people take pictures or videos of major events? To remember and revisit them later. Why not have as much data as you can for those past events?
6) Rescue. If your phone logs everything to the cloud, and you have it set up so that friends or family members can access it in an emergency, it makes it a lot more likely that you'll be found.
7) Crime. I used to be on Google Latitude, but there was a couple month period in which I was using a phone in which it wasn't enabled, and during that period I was a victim of a crime in a place I wasn't familiar with. It was extreme difficult for me to find the location where it occurred. Full logging would not only have recorded the location, but also all of the details to prove its existence.
And on and on and on.
What I don't understand is why so many of you are afraid of logging yourselves. What the heck are you doing that you're so terrified of governments hacking into your data and stealing it?
Meanwhile, cell phone batteries keep shrinking while their amp hours keep growing.
No, any given announcement isn't likely to ultimately play out. But some fraction of them do, and they change the world behind the scenes. The classic example is silicon anodes, which were the subject of big news stories on Slashdot years ago, then there was nothing.... but today they're commonly used in high-capacity li-ions.
As for this specific research: I read the study, and I have to admit, it's pretty impressive. One of the big things is that not only is the ion mobility high, but the coulombic efficiency is also very high (95-96% at high charge rates, 99% at low rates). If you want fast charging, having both is critical; otherwise, you'll never remove all of the waste heat at a fast enough rate.
After having read the paper, I have to add some caveats about this:
The batteries showed a high-power density of 1,322 watts per kilogram and high-energy density of 943 watt-hours per kilogram.
This is for the active materials only, not for whole cells, and only at low power density. First, the cell capacity is quite sensitive to how fast you charge it - if you charge it fast, the peak capacity is significantly reduced. That said, it's not a permanent difference; if the next time you charge it's a slow charge you go right back to the higher capacity. Secondly, when you include the inactive materials, they show about 450Wh/kg at low charge rates, and around 300Wh/kg at high charge rates. That said, it's still nice - and further refinement could probably reduce the inactive mass.
The capacity loss over 500 cycles - perhaps I'm not reading clearly, as I'm not seeing where that figure is given out. One of their graphs appears to show something like 10-15% loss over 130 cycles at 0,5C charge rate. It's hard to say how the curve will continue from there. A caveat is worth adding, in that the higher your maximum capacity, the fewer cycles you actually need, since for a given task you put fewer cycles per unit time on a higher capacity battery than a smaller capacity battery.
I see nothing about accelerated aging tests to see if there's any particular aging effect. Then again, I don't expect much of one, given their chemistry.
As for manufacture, it's a simple process, and requires no (relatively) expensive mined materials (e.g. no cobalt or the like). That said, one of their components - graphene nanoribbons - I have no clue what the current manufacturing costs are, nor what the potential is to bring them down in mass production. In theory, for something that's pure carbon, the cost should be able to go way down, since basic organic feedstocks are dirt cheap compared to most inorganic feedstocks. But that doesn't mean we've gotten it down that much at this point.
That's some pretty hefty hyperbole. It got that reputation from the past history at Sudbury, but today Sudbury is used as an exemplary case study of reducing environmental pollution from mining and remediating damaged landscapes.
Speak for yourself. I want better lifelogging; I find the current state of lifelogging apps, like Sony's "Lifelogger", quite poor. I'd love an app that logs *everything* I do, from as many sensors as it can, constrained only by realistic storage / bandwidth constraints. If something like this could be built into my cellphone or a cheap cell accessory, that would be awesome.
The main problem with it being simply an app on a cell phone is that cells have only front and rear cameras, but for a cell in your pocket what you really want is a side camera (which nobody has). But I can picture solutions for that problem...
Yawn. Yes, you're totally right! Why, being one month behind schedule on a couple parts totally means that the Model 3 is doomed. DOOOOOMED!!!! Quick! We must immediately short Tesla! There's no time to spare!
That's not accurate. Tesla didn't want the MobilEye split and to be forced onto AP2; they tried to negotiate with MobilEye to let them continue to purchase the chips. MobilEye had two conditions: paying much more per chip, and that Tesla immediately terminate their AP2 programme (MobilEye commented on Tesla's statement and, while putting their own spin on the reasons for the breakup, didn't deny either of those allegations). Tesla was forced onto AP2 a lot earlier than they wanted to be.
As for AP1 cars, I think it's obvious that all of Tesla's focus at present is on AP2. As it should be. There is no future in AP1.
I never play the stock market myself (beyond general retirement funds) because I don't have a "gambling" bone in my body.... but I swear, TSLA has been so easy to call through most of its history.
Interestingly, GM indirectly bears some responsibility for Tesla's founding... for doing something right. They made the Sunraycer solar car for a solar race, which blew its competition out of the water so well that they went to make the Impact concept electric vehicle. The Impact was a real leap forward in electric vehicle technology vs. anything else out there, using modern power electronics in the drive system, proper thermal management, etc. The Impact went on to later become the EV-1 which they famously killed off, but part of the Impact team spun off into AC Propulsion to develop the technology further. AC Propulsion made all sorts of amazing technology, yet commercialized almost none of it themselves. Their peak achievement of the era was the tzero sports car, which blew away the sluggish perception of EVs with a 4 second 0-60 even on lead-acid batteries. Musk fell in love with the tzero and tried repeatedly to get AC Propulsion to build him one, but similar to the "Mars greenhouse" incident that ultimately led to him founding SpaceX, AC Propulsion refused; they wanted their focus to be on other projects. They did however refer him to Eberhard and Tarpenning, who had already been marketing the idea of a lithium-ion Elise based on the drivetrain technology behind the tzero (Eberhard had already upgraded the tzero pack to li-ion and cut its 0-60 time even further). Musk ultimately got onboard and led the Series A funding round, and step by step the promised "electric Elise" became the Tesla Roadster.
It's GM's work on Sunraycer and especially Impact that really got the ball rolling.
The Model 3 has 2x dual-axis+click assignable steering wheel controls, designed so that for most tasks you never need to even take your hands off the wheel. As for the screen itself, first off, it responds to whatever you do at the wheel. To pick an example, while Model 3 has rain-sensing windshield wipers, if you flick the stalk for a single manual wipe, the wiper config options come up on the display. As for interaction with the display itself, the reason it's out on a stalk is to make it right in your peripheral view, and without any reaching required to interact. Your line of sight never has any need to go anywhere below "dashboard height", nor do your hands ever have to go more than slightly away from the wheel. The sheer size of the display means that all buttons on the screen are very large (don't need accurate presses, your finger can be way off without problems) and easily recognized in your peripheral view. More to the point, "common interactions" are on the left-hand side of the screen, making them even closer to your fingers and even more in your line of sight, with the upper left corner being the "prime real estate". The right hand side is used more for things like the nav and such. At the bottom are "always on" icons for various common features. Beyond the steering wheel controls and the screen, there's also voice commands.
Or, you can just believe that they never thought to try the vehicle out for usability.
Oh, and while you mentioned August, Tesla's September numbers have been crushing it. Of sales reported so far, they're at 48% of the US market. With vehicles that cost nearly six figures average sale price, versus competition that costs a third as much.
Ten years in. Ten billion dollars spent. Not even ten cents of profit.
And the value of their stock vastly grown, because the future revenue picture is vastly higher than if they had stopped expansion and focused on profit earlier. Which once again: investors understand that you want the company you're investing in to be making millions of mass-market cars per year (even if it means delaying profitability) rather than several hundred Roadsters or a couple tens of thousands of Ss and Xs per year - whether you understand it or not.
When do you - and TSLA fanatics - realize they are a distant also-ran in terms of the number of PEVs sold (BTW, in August 2017, 16K PEVs were sold in the US - combined, they wouldn't even break the top 20 of all vehicles sold in the US. The GM Volt and Bolt pace - and sometimes outsell - the Tesla S and X)?
Yes, more than 1 in 5 PEVs in the US sold were Teslas (4 in 5 all other manufacturers combined), despite said vehicles being in a price class representing a 1 1/2 orders of magnitude smaller customer base.
Now they're making a vehicle in a price class representing a 1 1/2 orders of magnitude larger customer base than their previous ones. Do the math. Or simply look at the reservation numbers - the people willing to wait a year and a half or more for their vehicles.
In other words, the headline reads, "World's 4th most valuable automaker has no trouble raising billions of dollars - details at 11".
Yes, investors understand that producing infrastructure to manufacture vehicles equating to over 20 billion dollars in revenue per year requires billions in capital costs - whether you do or not.
To be fair concerning Autopilot, the programme was hugely setback by the breakup with MobilEye (and I say this as an Autopilot / FSD pessimist). They're only just now roughly caught up to where they used to be with AP1.
Heck, most people's delivery dates are a three-month window. Mine (Europe) is very nonspecific "late 2018";) It actually got moved forward from "early 2019";)
Sorry, I was writing that while having some naan bread, rice pilaf and chai tea after a stop at the atm machine, and the LCD display was too dim for me to notice my erroneous mistake.
Normally I don't respond to trolls, but I'll make an exception:
I said nothing of the sort. I said Tesla will stab them in the back, like they've done with many other suppliers over the years in their pursuit of vertical integration. Panasonic will make a mint until it happens, but be left out in the cold after that once Tesla decides that its own internal battery technology and manufacturing knowhow is sufficient to leave Panasonic out of the picture.
How did you miss the fact that there have been deliveries going on for months? Did you not even read the headline, let alone the summary, let alone the article?
People with vehicles are already taking and posting videos, chatting on the Tesla forums, etc. And the general reaction is, although there's some features yet to come on the touchscreen (thank you, over-the-air updates!), the car is amazing. One person, when asked whether it was fun to drive, simply posted a picture of black sticky stuff splattered across their wheel wells with words along the lines of "That's not road tar;)" and "I'll be lucky if these tires last 2000 miles"
The first delivery was 30 vehicles. The next month was supposed to be 100, then 300, then 1500. However, they're only up to around 250-ish, by the vin count. More and more people on the forums however, keep getting notified of their delivery dates, so it's exciting to watch:)
Slashdot Mirror
I'll repeat: What the heck are you doing that you're so terrified of being subpoenaed and having something damning about you in your data?
Hahaha, so true! ;)
I started using it as a replacement for Latitude when Latitude went away, but the software has gone way downhill since then (wish I could revert to an old version). Now it's all about (poor) calorie counts and sleep tracking. The map that you used to be able to have on your timeline with precise positioning is now hidden, no longer on the timeline, and only moves you in big blocks, with a more awkward interface. The timeline shows you "browsing" and "phone call" and the like, but you can't click on them to see *what* you were browsing, *who* was calling (let alone the contents of the call), etc.
I want a life *logger*. Not a (poor) fitbit. :
1) I love datasets. If I decide later that I want to, say, check how long it usually takes me to drive from Point A to Point B, or see if I noticed an earthquake on a particular day or really bloody anything I think up later, I want the data.
2) I like being able to look up things about my past. E.g., a coworker says "Oh, hey, I don't see you signed in on July 6th - do you know why?" I can go back and see "Oh yeah, I was sick then" or "I was in, but I was in a rush because of A and B and forgot to sign in" or "Oh yeah, I took a day of vacation then, did the vacation registration not go through?"
3) Sometimes my memory isn't great. It's great to have an "artificial memory" that never forgets
4) The inevitable "He said" / "she said" argument. You have proof right on-hand. Prove it to yourself first, and if you're right, prove it to the other person.
5) Contextualizing the past. Why do people take pictures or videos of major events? To remember and revisit them later. Why not have as much data as you can for those past events?
6) Rescue. If your phone logs everything to the cloud, and you have it set up so that friends or family members can access it in an emergency, it makes it a lot more likely that you'll be found.
7) Crime. I used to be on Google Latitude, but there was a couple month period in which I was using a phone in which it wasn't enabled, and during that period I was a victim of a crime in a place I wasn't familiar with. It was extreme difficult for me to find the location where it occurred. Full logging would not only have recorded the location, but also all of the details to prove its existence.
And on and on and on.
What I don't understand is why so many of you are afraid of logging yourselves. What the heck are you doing that you're so terrified of governments hacking into your data and stealing it?
Meanwhile, cell phone batteries keep shrinking while their amp hours keep growing.
No, any given announcement isn't likely to ultimately play out. But some fraction of them do, and they change the world behind the scenes. The classic example is silicon anodes, which were the subject of big news stories on Slashdot years ago, then there was nothing.... but today they're commonly used in high-capacity li-ions.
As for this specific research: I read the study, and I have to admit, it's pretty impressive. One of the big things is that not only is the ion mobility high, but the coulombic efficiency is also very high (95-96% at high charge rates, 99% at low rates). If you want fast charging, having both is critical; otherwise, you'll never remove all of the waste heat at a fast enough rate.
After having read the paper, I have to add some caveats about this:
This is for the active materials only, not for whole cells, and only at low power density. First, the cell capacity is quite sensitive to how fast you charge it - if you charge it fast, the peak capacity is significantly reduced. That said, it's not a permanent difference; if the next time you charge it's a slow charge you go right back to the higher capacity. Secondly, when you include the inactive materials, they show about 450Wh/kg at low charge rates, and around 300Wh/kg at high charge rates. That said, it's still nice - and further refinement could probably reduce the inactive mass.
The capacity loss over 500 cycles - perhaps I'm not reading clearly, as I'm not seeing where that figure is given out. One of their graphs appears to show something like 10-15% loss over 130 cycles at 0,5C charge rate. It's hard to say how the curve will continue from there. A caveat is worth adding, in that the higher your maximum capacity, the fewer cycles you actually need, since for a given task you put fewer cycles per unit time on a higher capacity battery than a smaller capacity battery.
I see nothing about accelerated aging tests to see if there's any particular aging effect. Then again, I don't expect much of one, given their chemistry.
As for manufacture, it's a simple process, and requires no (relatively) expensive mined materials (e.g. no cobalt or the like). That said, one of their components - graphene nanoribbons - I have no clue what the current manufacturing costs are, nor what the potential is to bring them down in mass production. In theory, for something that's pure carbon, the cost should be able to go way down, since basic organic feedstocks are dirt cheap compared to most inorganic feedstocks. But that doesn't mean we've gotten it down that much at this point.
Just my takes from reading the paper :)
That's some pretty hefty hyperbole. It got that reputation from the past history at Sudbury, but today Sudbury is used as an exemplary case study of reducing environmental pollution from mining and remediating damaged landscapes.
Speak for yourself. I want better lifelogging; I find the current state of lifelogging apps, like Sony's "Lifelogger", quite poor. I'd love an app that logs *everything* I do, from as many sensors as it can, constrained only by realistic storage / bandwidth constraints. If something like this could be built into my cellphone or a cheap cell accessory, that would be awesome.
The main problem with it being simply an app on a cell phone is that cells have only front and rear cameras, but for a cell in your pocket what you really want is a side camera (which nobody has). But I can picture solutions for that problem...
Keep buying shorts ;)
Wow, one fund among hundreds of thousands. That settles the case! Meanwhile, Tesla's stock is up after the Q3 earnings report, not down.
Yawn. Yes, you're totally right! Why, being one month behind schedule on a couple parts totally means that the Model 3 is doomed. DOOOOOMED!!!! Quick! We must immediately short Tesla! There's no time to spare!
You first ;)
That's not accurate. Tesla didn't want the MobilEye split and to be forced onto AP2; they tried to negotiate with MobilEye to let them continue to purchase the chips. MobilEye had two conditions: paying much more per chip, and that Tesla immediately terminate their AP2 programme (MobilEye commented on Tesla's statement and, while putting their own spin on the reasons for the breakup, didn't deny either of those allegations). Tesla was forced onto AP2 a lot earlier than they wanted to be.
As for AP1 cars, I think it's obvious that all of Tesla's focus at present is on AP2. As it should be. There is no future in AP1.
I never play the stock market myself (beyond general retirement funds) because I don't have a "gambling" bone in my body.... but I swear, TSLA has been so easy to call through most of its history.
Interestingly, GM indirectly bears some responsibility for Tesla's founding... for doing something right. They made the Sunraycer solar car for a solar race, which blew its competition out of the water so well that they went to make the Impact concept electric vehicle. The Impact was a real leap forward in electric vehicle technology vs. anything else out there, using modern power electronics in the drive system, proper thermal management, etc. The Impact went on to later become the EV-1 which they famously killed off, but part of the Impact team spun off into AC Propulsion to develop the technology further. AC Propulsion made all sorts of amazing technology, yet commercialized almost none of it themselves. Their peak achievement of the era was the tzero sports car, which blew away the sluggish perception of EVs with a 4 second 0-60 even on lead-acid batteries. Musk fell in love with the tzero and tried repeatedly to get AC Propulsion to build him one, but similar to the "Mars greenhouse" incident that ultimately led to him founding SpaceX, AC Propulsion refused; they wanted their focus to be on other projects. They did however refer him to Eberhard and Tarpenning, who had already been marketing the idea of a lithium-ion Elise based on the drivetrain technology behind the tzero (Eberhard had already upgraded the tzero pack to li-ion and cut its 0-60 time even further). Musk ultimately got onboard and led the Series A funding round, and step by step the promised "electric Elise" became the Tesla Roadster.
It's GM's work on Sunraycer and especially Impact that really got the ball rolling.
Or, more politely than the AC:
The Model 3 has 2x dual-axis+click assignable steering wheel controls, designed so that for most tasks you never need to even take your hands off the wheel. As for the screen itself, first off, it responds to whatever you do at the wheel. To pick an example, while Model 3 has rain-sensing windshield wipers, if you flick the stalk for a single manual wipe, the wiper config options come up on the display. As for interaction with the display itself, the reason it's out on a stalk is to make it right in your peripheral view, and without any reaching required to interact. Your line of sight never has any need to go anywhere below "dashboard height", nor do your hands ever have to go more than slightly away from the wheel. The sheer size of the display means that all buttons on the screen are very large (don't need accurate presses, your finger can be way off without problems) and easily recognized in your peripheral view. More to the point, "common interactions" are on the left-hand side of the screen, making them even closer to your fingers and even more in your line of sight, with the upper left corner being the "prime real estate". The right hand side is used more for things like the nav and such. At the bottom are "always on" icons for various common features. Beyond the steering wheel controls and the screen, there's also voice commands.
Or, you can just believe that they never thought to try the vehicle out for usability.
Oh, and while you mentioned August, Tesla's September numbers have been crushing it. Of sales reported so far, they're at 48% of the US market. With vehicles that cost nearly six figures average sale price, versus competition that costs a third as much.
And the value of their stock vastly grown, because the future revenue picture is vastly higher than if they had stopped expansion and focused on profit earlier. Which once again: investors understand that you want the company you're investing in to be making millions of mass-market cars per year (even if it means delaying profitability) rather than several hundred Roadsters or a couple tens of thousands of Ss and Xs per year - whether you understand it or not.
Yes, more than 1 in 5 PEVs in the US sold were Teslas (4 in 5 all other manufacturers combined), despite said vehicles being in a price class representing a 1 1/2 orders of magnitude smaller customer base.
Now they're making a vehicle in a price class representing a 1 1/2 orders of magnitude larger customer base than their previous ones. Do the math. Or simply look at the reservation numbers - the people willing to wait a year and a half or more for their vehicles.
In other words, the headline reads, "World's 4th most valuable automaker has no trouble raising billions of dollars - details at 11".
Yes, investors understand that producing infrastructure to manufacture vehicles equating to over 20 billion dollars in revenue per year requires billions in capital costs - whether you do or not.
To be fair concerning Autopilot, the programme was hugely setback by the breakup with MobilEye (and I say this as an Autopilot / FSD pessimist). They're only just now roughly caught up to where they used to be with AP1.
Nobody makes you burn out your tires. You don't have to drive with the pedal to the floor.
If you like both the tropics and space, may I suggest Venus? ;)
Heck, most people's delivery dates are a three-month window. Mine (Europe) is very nonspecific "late 2018" ;) It actually got moved forward from "early 2019" ;)
Keep buying those shorts ;)
Sorry, I was writing that while having some naan bread, rice pilaf and chai tea after a stop at the atm machine, and the LCD display was too dim for me to notice my erroneous mistake.
Normally I don't respond to trolls, but I'll make an exception:
I said nothing of the sort. I said Tesla will stab them in the back, like they've done with many other suppliers over the years in their pursuit of vertical integration. Panasonic will make a mint until it happens, but be left out in the cold after that once Tesla decides that its own internal battery technology and manufacturing knowhow is sufficient to leave Panasonic out of the picture.
"Fourth most valuable automaker in the world" does not equal "insignificance".
How did you miss the fact that there have been deliveries going on for months? Did you not even read the headline, let alone the summary, let alone the article?
People with vehicles are already taking and posting videos, chatting on the Tesla forums, etc. And the general reaction is, although there's some features yet to come on the touchscreen (thank you, over-the-air updates!), the car is amazing. One person, when asked whether it was fun to drive, simply posted a picture of black sticky stuff splattered across their wheel wells with words along the lines of "That's not road tar ;)" and "I'll be lucky if these tires last 2000 miles"
The first delivery was 30 vehicles. The next month was supposed to be 100, then 300, then 1500. However, they're only up to around 250-ish, by the vin count. More and more people on the forums however, keep getting notified of their delivery dates, so it's exciting to watch :)