Linux runs nativly on an IBM s/390 thanks to the hard work of the people at IBM and Marist University in porting it over. In fact, I'm running Linux on a mainframe right now:)
But the previous poster's point still stands, Unix on a mainframe didn't exist until a few years ago. It certainly wasn't written for a mainframe.
Bullshit. Only within the last few years has unix been ported to mainframes. Unix System Services (a componant of IBM's OS/390) and Linux are the the only two I know of.
MVS and before it MVT were mainframe operating systems.
We want to be able to use the GPL to restrict commercial companies from using our code for free without redistributing the source, but we also don't want to have to pay for music.
I don't believe I said anything about music. Are you just grasping at straws here?
Ah, I see. "Our rights are more important than yours!"
Yes, I consider the rights of an author (whether it be a software author or thesis author) to be move important than than the right of someone who's only involvment is to take someone elses work and try to make money off it. If the origional author wants it to be freely distributable, of if they want it restricted and comercial (as it the case of software), it's their right. I don't think you can paint this as a "us vs corporations" issue since it seems to me to be a "author vs profiteer who had nothing to do with the creation" issue.
Going GPL with your code means it can't be worked into BSD licensed code. Isn't that still restricting the information?
Yes it is, but it's a decision you make yourself and not someone else making it for you. Someone cannot take my GPL code and make it proprietary just as they cannot take someone else's proprietary code and make it GPL.
No matter what the original author's wants are? Who do you think assigns the GPL to a work in the first place?
By wanting something to be free it means you want it to always be available. If you modify it you must make your modifications available under the same license.
In this case a company has assumed control over a work and is placing restrictions on it, not to mention refusing to turn it over without having you pay for it. The problem here is not that we want our copyright, but that we don't want some other entity claiming copyright and restricting the information.
I could, but why? With some minor irratating exceptions (this being one of them) all linux software is distributed as a tarball. If you want to support the more esoteric packaging formats, fine, but support the universal, accepted one first.
That, and unless you have ALL your libraries and such installed with RPM to begin with (something you don't have unless your distro is RH or one of it's children) it's pretty much useless. It's not smart enough to check dependencies outside of it's little RPM database.
Jabber supports SSL connections (at least on the server side, I haven't seen a client that supports it yet)
The Latest Licq supports this in the client. Naturaly the ICQ servers don't, but since ICQ is more of a direct ip to ip protocol (although you can send through server if the other party is offline) it works. Of course, you can only use SSL between two Licq users, but it's a step.
Wrong, I have a couple hundred MP3s, and all of them downloaded from napster. I also own the equivilant CD for every song on my PC. Why didn't I just rip them myself? I'm lazy.:)
Agreed, but there is also a perfect method already in place to spread information (well, almost) called FreeNet. Not only does it have search capabilities, but it imposes no limit on what you can spread.
No one made any cop be a cop. they do it on their own free will. That means they must agree with what the job enforces.
Contrary to popular belief, most cops (the ones I know anyway) are cops because they like to help people. They catch criminals and try to stop crimes from being committed.
Many don't agree with all the laws they have to enforce, the same goes for plenty of judges.
I agree with your point about the author, and on the same token I agree that there are bad cops around. However, what would you prefer, cops enforcing all laws (even the ones they disagree with) or all cops striking (or quiting) over the laws they don't like and nobody enforcing anything?
True, and I know that is common practice on usenet, but it still is kind of a pain. Still, it will be interesting when people do that, and the RIAA goes up aginst AT&T
Maybe we will get lucky and they will destroy each other:)
When you can get Pink Floyd's Echoes (a good 20+ minute song) in some format (perhaps mp5) and compressed to under 100k, then I'll sit up and take notice:)
Seriously, what does this offer over freenet aside from "let's make those whining children over at the RIAA happy" type restrictions? If it's the same as freenet, but with a strict set of rules, then freenet will eventually beat it no matter how much corporate money it has backing it.
I agree, when I come to a web site that caters to the Linux/BSD and open source crowd, I EXPECT to see anti-open source and anti-Linux articles. Imagine my shock when I found that the editors here seem to actually post stories that interest their target audience.
One University (speak up if you know) is actually running thousands of seperate linux guests under VM on their s/390 and giving EVERY student their own Linux box to play with.
I'm under the assumption that they have some method of dealing with security in a central way so that everyone isn't running tftp and the dreaded r servers.
There aren't going to be any official links yet, this was pre-announced at SHARE (www.share.org) in Boston last week. The official announcement should come later this week.
Along with the new pricing scheme, a new product was announced. Called the Virtual Image Facility (this is what costs $20k), it is basically a stripped down version of the old VM OS for the s/390 with some administrative capabilities thrown in for good measure.
Currently Linux only runs on an s/390 in one of three ways, as the only OS on the mainframe, in an LPAR (logical partition, which you are limited to 15 on any given s/390) or as a guest under VM, which is what allows you to run as many as you want (40,000+). The new VIF will allow you to have the benefits of running linux under VM, while actually running under an LPAR (which most shops seem to do, VM is slowly vanishing)
On a side note, Linux was very well represented at this SHARE, with dozens of sessions specifically targed towards Linux. IBM also stressed it's committment to Linux on several occations. My favorite quote was:
"The Penguin is your friend" - Tom Rosamilia, VP s/390 Software Development, IBM
I've found most mainframers seem very open toward Linux (with reservations, these guys are used to reliability and fault tolerance that blowns Linux out of the water). I suspect the reason for this is that the open source development style harkens back to the days many of them remember when IBM released source code for mainframe products (the MVT and HASP days).
First off, I would never have gotten involved in this if I hadn't noticed the line "maybe it would be better if she hadn't come back". Now yes, I understand that you were only using a figure of speech and didn't mean for it to sound like you were wishing death on someone, but that is how it sounded.
Second, there has been plenty of beliefs being attacked here and I'll give you a hint, it's not just yours. Go look and some of your posts and seeif they sound like an attacks on others beliefs.
I agree. Much evil has been done in the name of Jesus. Does that make his message of love and tolerance evil, or does it just prove that people throughout history are stupid.
I can't help but notice (amoung your insulting and offensive language) that you have done more labeling than anyone I've talked to in a long time.
Since you seem to be the only angry, violent sounding person here, I could argue that YOU pose the largest threat. I'm not pointing the blame anywhere. Are you suggesting that I'm to blame for something? I appoligize for being a Christian...happy now?
Since we keep coming back to that, I should point out that there are plenty of religions today (Christianity not currently one of them) that advocate at the highest levels that they are the saviors and that the "infidels" must be removed by any means possible. Without being specific (so as not to offend) there are several religions in the middle east that encourage killing of nonbelievers. There are also plenty of groups that are not affiliated with religion at all that feel this way. It's not a religious problem, it's a human problem.
I am Christian, and I have never killed, raped, or destroyed a civilazation (not that I can remember, I was pretty drunk around the fall of the Soviet Union). In fact, I rarely discuss religion at all, I feel it's something that each person has to decide for themselves, and I've met few Christians who feel otherwise. Now, the Catholic Church tends to irk me with its intolerance for other religions, but to be fair, thay haven't been the cause and civilations falling for hundreds of year, so at least they are showing improvment.
Slashdot Mirror
Linux runs nativly on an IBM s/390 thanks to the hard work of the people at IBM and Marist University in porting it over. In fact, I'm running Linux on a mainframe right now :)
But the previous poster's point still stands, Unix on a mainframe didn't exist until a few years ago. It certainly wasn't written for a mainframe.
Finkployd
And UNIX was designed to run on mainframes
Bullshit. Only within the last few years has unix been ported to mainframes. Unix System Services (a componant of IBM's OS/390) and Linux are the the only two I know of.
MVS and before it MVT were mainframe operating systems.
Finkployd
We want to be able to use the GPL to restrict commercial companies from using our code for free without redistributing the source, but we also don't want to have to pay for music.
I don't believe I said anything about music. Are you just grasping at straws here?
Ah, I see. "Our rights are more important than yours!"
Yes, I consider the rights of an author (whether it be a software author or thesis author) to be move important than than the right of someone who's only involvment is to take someone elses work and try to make money off it. If the origional author wants it to be freely distributable, of if they want it restricted and comercial (as it the case of software), it's their right. I don't think you can paint this as a "us vs corporations" issue since it seems to me to be a "author vs profiteer who had nothing to do with the creation" issue.
Going GPL with your code means it can't be worked into BSD licensed code. Isn't that still restricting the information?
Yes it is, but it's a decision you make yourself and not someone else making it for you. Someone cannot take my GPL code and make it proprietary just as they cannot take someone else's proprietary code and make it GPL.
Finkployd
No matter what the original author's wants are? Who do you think assigns the GPL to a work in the first place?
By wanting something to be free it means you want it to always be available. If you modify it you must make your modifications available under the same license.
In this case a company has assumed control over a work and is placing restrictions on it, not to mention refusing to turn it over without having you pay for it. The problem here is not that we want our copyright, but that we don't want some other entity claiming copyright and restricting the information.
Finkployd
What happens if the USPS starts deciding that they want to open and read all the mail?
Nothing. I mean, how would we know if they started doing that. They could easily steam it open and reseal it.
Finkployd
I could, but why? With some minor irratating exceptions (this being one of them) all linux software is distributed as a tarball. If you want to support the more esoteric packaging formats, fine, but support the universal, accepted one first.
That, and unless you have ALL your libraries and such installed with RPM to begin with (something you don't have unless your distro is RH or one of it's children) it's pretty much useless. It's not smart enough to check dependencies outside of it's little RPM database.
Finkployd
Jabber supports SSL connections (at least on the server side, I haven't seen a client that supports it yet)
The Latest Licq supports this in the client. Naturaly the ICQ servers don't, but since ICQ is more of a direct ip to ip protocol (although you can send through server if the other party is offline) it works. Of course, you can only use SSL between two Licq users, but it's a step.
Finkployd
or those running slackware? same story
finkployd
I kinda did that on purpose :)
Finkployd
Wrong, I have a couple hundred MP3s, and all of them downloaded from napster. I also own the equivilant CD for every song on my PC. Why didn't I just rip them myself? I'm lazy. :)
Finkployd
Agreed, but there is also a perfect method already in place to spread information (well, almost) called FreeNet. Not only does it have search capabilities, but it imposes no limit on what you can spread.
Finkployd
No one made any cop be a cop. they do it on their own free will. That means they must agree with what the job enforces.
Contrary to popular belief, most cops (the ones I know anyway) are cops because they like to help people. They catch criminals and try to stop crimes from being committed.
Many don't agree with all the laws they have to enforce, the same goes for plenty of judges.
I agree with your point about the author, and on the same token I agree that there are bad cops around. However, what would you prefer, cops enforcing all laws (even the ones they disagree with) or all cops striking (or quiting) over the laws they don't like and nobody enforcing anything?
Finkployd
True, and I know that is common practice on usenet, but it still is kind of a pain. Still, it will be interesting when people do that, and the RIAA goes up aginst AT&T
:)
Maybe we will get lucky and they will destroy each other
Finkployd
When you can get Pink Floyd's Echoes (a good 20+ minute song) in some format (perhaps mp5) and compressed to under 100k, then I'll sit up and take notice :)
Seriously, what does this offer over freenet aside from "let's make those whining children over at the RIAA happy" type restrictions? If it's the same as freenet, but with a strict set of rules, then freenet will eventually beat it no matter how much corporate money it has backing it.
Finkployd
Lord help us if Slashdot ever becomes an objective discussion site.
There is no such thing. I just accept that Slashdot has it's biases (like EVERY OTHER NEWS SOURCE) and take it with a gain of salt.
What I DO like about it that when it's blatently wrong about something, they usually get called on it in the comments.
Finkployd
Finkployd
I agree, when I come to a web site that caters to the Linux/BSD and open source crowd, I EXPECT to see anti-open source and anti-Linux articles. Imagine my shock when I found that the editors here seem to actually post stories that interest their target audience.
Finkployd
One University (speak up if you know) is actually running thousands of seperate linux guests under VM on their s/390 and giving EVERY student their own Linux box to play with.
I'm under the assumption that they have some method of dealing with security in a central way so that everyone isn't running tftp and the dreaded r servers.
Finkployd
There aren't going to be any official links yet, this was pre-announced at SHARE (www.share.org) in Boston last week. The official announcement should come later this week.
Along with the new pricing scheme, a new product was announced. Called the Virtual Image Facility (this is what costs $20k), it is basically a stripped down version of the old VM OS for the s/390 with some administrative capabilities thrown in for good measure.
Currently Linux only runs on an s/390 in one of three ways, as the only OS on the mainframe, in an LPAR (logical partition, which you are limited to 15 on any given s/390) or as a guest under VM, which is what allows you to run as many as you want (40,000+). The new VIF will allow you to have the benefits of running linux under VM, while actually running under an LPAR (which most shops seem to do, VM is slowly vanishing)
On a side note, Linux was very well represented at this SHARE, with dozens of sessions specifically targed towards Linux. IBM also stressed it's committment to Linux on several occations. My favorite quote was:
"The Penguin is your friend" - Tom Rosamilia, VP s/390 Software Development, IBM
I've found most mainframers seem very open toward Linux (with reservations, these guys are used to reliability and fault tolerance that blowns Linux out of the water). I suspect the reason for this is that the open source development style harkens back to the days many of them remember when IBM released source code for mainframe products (the MVT and HASP days).
Finkployd
Heres a couple, I am an asshole who doesnt know wha hes talking about.
Now who is putting words in who's mouth? I NEVER once called you any names (unlike you, who felt the need to include profanity in nearly every post).
Finkployd
Oh I'm sorry, what were my other points?
Finkployd
First off, I would never have gotten involved in this if I hadn't noticed the line "maybe it would be better if she hadn't come back". Now yes, I understand that you were only using a figure of speech and didn't mean for it to sound like you were wishing death on someone, but that is how it sounded.
Second, there has been plenty of beliefs being attacked here and I'll give you a hint, it's not just yours. Go look and some of your posts and seeif they sound like an attacks on others beliefs.
Finkployd
Just because one christian says hes good doesnt make the whole group good.
Agreed, and just because many Christians have been bad doesn't make the whole group bad.
That is my only point.
Finkployd
I agree. Much evil has been done in the name of Jesus. Does that make his message of love and tolerance evil, or does it just prove that people throughout history are stupid.
Finkployd
I can't help but notice (amoung your insulting and offensive language) that you have done more labeling than anyone I've talked to in a long time.
Since you seem to be the only angry, violent sounding person here, I could argue that YOU pose the largest threat. I'm not pointing the blame anywhere. Are you suggesting that I'm to blame for something? I appoligize for being a Christian...happy now?
sheesh
Finkployd
Since we keep coming back to that, I should point out that there are plenty of religions today (Christianity not currently one of them) that advocate at the highest levels that they are the saviors and that the "infidels" must be removed by any means possible. Without being specific (so as not to offend) there are several religions in the middle east that encourage killing of nonbelievers. There are also plenty of groups that are not affiliated with religion at all that feel this way. It's not a religious problem, it's a human problem.
I am Christian, and I have never killed, raped, or destroyed a civilazation (not that I can remember, I was pretty drunk around the fall of the Soviet Union). In fact, I rarely discuss religion at all, I feel it's something that each person has to decide for themselves, and I've met few Christians who feel otherwise. Now, the Catholic Church tends to irk me with its intolerance for other religions, but to be fair, thay haven't been the cause and civilations falling for hundreds of year, so at least they are showing improvment.
Finkployd