We are discussing requiring ALL students to attend EVERY class, so it isn't a question of whether one student doesn't know the material, and thus will get value from attending. It is a question of whether any students do know the material, and the the class is a time (and thus money) drain for no good reason. So, to answer your question... No one said that any of the students knew the material before attending the class. Why? Because it is a self evident truth that there will be some people that know the material before entering the class. I know I have personally had that experience, and have seen other students that not only know the material, but were more familiar with the material than the teacher.
No, you are talking about using up a resource for no purpose so that you can feel like you got your money's worth. If you already know the material, listening to a professor repeat information that you already know is not getting anything of value out of the professor. Sitting in class sessions that you already know to get value out of the professor makes as much sense as buying extra stuff so that you can fill your garbage can to the brim so that you can get value out of the garbage company. Using a service, and getting value out of it are two totally different things.
You fool! You can exempt out of a class if you feel that you shouldn't be in there. Take midterms + final at the same time. You get the credit but not GPA. Happy? you can stop wasting everybody's time in college. Unless your one of those people who sign up for Mickey Mouse classes and want a high grade.
Great, so you agree that you were wrong, and he does not have something better to do with his life.
Wow is right. I don't know if you are an arrogant asshole professor, or some kind of toadie. Either way, that class mentality is part of the problem with education. There are plenty of people in this world that do things for 30 years. So, yes. Professors are just like the rest of the population.
eg. A person who bags groceries for 30 years is not comparable to a professor you dolt!
The only reason I would refrain from telling a professor that is if they were in a position to abuse their authority by giving me a bad grade or failing me because I didn't bow to their highly unethical behavior.
You talk a big game but can't follow through! Your also making a generalization about educators which is completely uneducated
Yes, a freshman IS supposed to call the shots concerning his education. The claim that a normally functioning adult calling the shots on their own education and knowing what is best for themselves is dreams of grandeur, can only mean that you don't know what that term means.
Sounds like your getting your degree online. Ha! Just because they are 18 years old and can buy cigs and porn does not mean they are mentally capable of making correct decisions about their education. HENCE, they are restricting this RFID to freshman and sophomores you self-righteous punk. Come back when you can buy beer.
And by the way...
I agree with you that sitting in a class that has no merit is not educational and is worthless.
That was said in my first reply you feeble minded fool
Whether the professors time costs money or not does not make sitting through a class on subject matter you already know valuable.
So your changing the argument. Who ever said they knew anything about the class before they attended? These are freshman and sophomores attending college.
As with many products in the world, you often buy a package that includes more than you need. This reduces the cost by allowing greater efficiency in producing the product.
Say what?
So your basically saying the assembly line concept is less efficient than building cars by hand... I get it. Quality vs Quantity. Unless you can fund a full staff of professors with benefits...riiighhtt.....good luck with that.
Your looking at the picture in hindsight. Your comparing human beings who have the ability to change their lives through teachers with mere fruits and vegetables; the top of the food chain with the bottom. Don't confuse a human with fruits and vegetables although I know some of them are out there.
Sometimes this means that there is that one bottle of lemon ice tea that you hate in the case of Snapple that you buy. Sometimes that means that there is liver at the buffet where you are eating. Sometimes that means that the road two block over, you never drive on.
The examples have no merit. That's a matter of your opinion. Who is to say somebody else isn't going to drink that, eat the piece of liver or drive on that road?
Claiming that attendance in a class that you don't need should be required so that you "get your money's worth", is just as logical as claiming that driving on every road in town should be required so that you "get your money's worth".
I was talking about getting your money's worth out of the professor, not the class.
I am sure the professor has better things to do with his time than to force a bunch of freshman to learn the material.
No he doesn't. Earning a living is clearly the best use of his time. If it wasn't, then he wouldn't be their. No, doubt, university professors are like the rest of the population, and would like to not have to show up to work. But just like a telephone does not offer value every second that it is available for use, neither does a classroom.
What the hell do you think he's doing when he goes to class?! He's doing this out of the goodness of his heart and after class he toils in the mill to earn a living? HE'S EARNING A LIVING WHEN HE TEACHES CLASS. Do you even know what a professor does?? He's getting funding from the school/gov. so he can pursue his own scientific studies. Further more saying he's like the rest of the population is just down right insulting. He went through 30 years of school to say he's like the rest of the population. WOW! say that to your professor the next time.
And just like the telephone operator needs to show up to work so that they are there IF you need them, so does the professor.
So a freshman is supposed to call the shots being 18 all he MUST know everything! We all have dreams of grandeur.
I agree with you that sitting in a class that has no merit is not educational and is worthless. However, I do disagree that you are not getting your money's worth. The professor's time, like all things costs money. Taking up his time to be at the university is what you are paying for (think of it like a concert for smart people...) and the ability to pick the brain of an intelligent person. I am sure the professor has better things to do with his time than to force a bunch of freshman to learn the material.
Furthermore the professor probably wants nobody to attend so he can get paid from the hard earned money of people who paid tuition without having to do anything.
Who's the big balls on campus now? the one who's paying for tuition and not attending class or the professor?
Hey, the world needs ditch diggers too...
I bet the kids who are petitioning are having their parents pay for their education. Anybody who pays that amount for an education is going to get their money's worth and sit in a class whether they like it or not.
Slashdot Mirror
We are discussing requiring ALL students to attend EVERY class, so it isn't a question of whether one student doesn't know the material, and thus will get value from attending. It is a question of whether any students do know the material, and the the class is a time (and thus money) drain for no good reason. So, to answer your question... No one said that any of the students knew the material before attending the class. Why? Because it is a self evident truth that there will be some people that know the material before entering the class. I know I have personally had that experience, and have seen other students that not only know the material, but were more familiar with the material than the teacher.
No, you are talking about using up a resource for no purpose so that you can feel like you got your money's worth. If you already know the material, listening to a professor repeat information that you already know is not getting anything of value out of the professor. Sitting in class sessions that you already know to get value out of the professor makes as much sense as buying extra stuff so that you can fill your garbage can to the brim so that you can get value out of the garbage company. Using a service, and getting value out of it are two totally different things.
You fool! You can exempt out of a class if you feel that you shouldn't be in there. Take midterms + final at the same time. You get the credit but not GPA. Happy? you can stop wasting everybody's time in college. Unless your one of those people who sign up for Mickey Mouse classes and want a high grade.
Great, so you agree that you were wrong, and he does not have something better to do with his life.
Wow is right. I don't know if you are an arrogant asshole professor, or some kind of toadie. Either way, that class mentality is part of the problem with education. There are plenty of people in this world that do things for 30 years. So, yes. Professors are just like the rest of the population.
eg. A person who bags groceries for 30 years is not comparable to a professor you dolt!
The only reason I would refrain from telling a professor that is if they were in a position to abuse their authority by giving me a bad grade or failing me because I didn't bow to their highly unethical behavior.
You talk a big game but can't follow through! Your also making a generalization about educators which is completely uneducated
Yes, a freshman IS supposed to call the shots concerning his education. The claim that a normally functioning adult calling the shots on their own education and knowing what is best for themselves is dreams of grandeur, can only mean that you don't know what that term means.
Sounds like your getting your degree online. Ha! Just because they are 18 years old and can buy cigs and porn does not mean they are mentally capable of making correct decisions about their education. HENCE, they are restricting this RFID to freshman and sophomores you self-righteous punk. Come back when you can buy beer.
And by the way...
I agree with you that sitting in a class that has no merit is not educational and is worthless.
That was said in my first reply you feeble minded fool
Whether the professors time costs money or not does not make sitting through a class on subject matter you already know valuable.
So your changing the argument. Who ever said they knew anything about the class before they attended? These are freshman and sophomores attending college.
As with many products in the world, you often buy a package that includes more than you need. This reduces the cost by allowing greater efficiency in producing the product.
Say what? So your basically saying the assembly line concept is less efficient than building cars by hand... I get it. Quality vs Quantity. Unless you can fund a full staff of professors with benefits...riiighhtt.....good luck with that. Your looking at the picture in hindsight. Your comparing human beings who have the ability to change their lives through teachers with mere fruits and vegetables; the top of the food chain with the bottom. Don't confuse a human with fruits and vegetables although I know some of them are out there.
Sometimes this means that there is that one bottle of lemon ice tea that you hate in the case of Snapple that you buy. Sometimes that means that there is liver at the buffet where you are eating. Sometimes that means that the road two block over, you never drive on.
The examples have no merit. That's a matter of your opinion. Who is to say somebody else isn't going to drink that, eat the piece of liver or drive on that road?
Claiming that attendance in a class that you don't need should be required so that you "get your money's worth", is just as logical as claiming that driving on every road in town should be required so that you "get your money's worth".
I was talking about getting your money's worth out of the professor, not the class.
I am sure the professor has better things to do with his time than to force a bunch of freshman to learn the material.
No he doesn't. Earning a living is clearly the best use of his time. If it wasn't, then he wouldn't be their. No, doubt, university professors are like the rest of the population, and would like to not have to show up to work. But just like a telephone does not offer value every second that it is available for use, neither does a classroom.
What the hell do you think he's doing when he goes to class?! He's doing this out of the goodness of his heart and after class he toils in the mill to earn a living? HE'S EARNING A LIVING WHEN HE TEACHES CLASS. Do you even know what a professor does?? He's getting funding from the school/gov. so he can pursue his own scientific studies. Further more saying he's like the rest of the population is just down right insulting. He went through 30 years of school to say he's like the rest of the population. WOW! say that to your professor the next time.
And just like the telephone operator needs to show up to work so that they are there IF you need them, so does the professor.
So a freshman is supposed to call the shots being 18 all he MUST know everything! We all have dreams of grandeur.
I agree with you that sitting in a class that has no merit is not educational and is worthless. However, I do disagree that you are not getting your money's worth. The professor's time, like all things costs money. Taking up his time to be at the university is what you are paying for (think of it like a concert for smart people...) and the ability to pick the brain of an intelligent person. I am sure the professor has better things to do with his time than to force a bunch of freshman to learn the material. Furthermore the professor probably wants nobody to attend so he can get paid from the hard earned money of people who paid tuition without having to do anything. Who's the big balls on campus now? the one who's paying for tuition and not attending class or the professor? Hey, the world needs ditch diggers too...
I bet the kids who are petitioning are having their parents pay for their education. Anybody who pays that amount for an education is going to get their money's worth and sit in a class whether they like it or not.