"Congress never delcared war on Iraq - they only gave Bush a joint resolution to use armed forces based on information provided at the time."
Just because congress wussed out of taking a stand one way or another does *not* remove blame from them for this mess.
"Bush did sign the PATRIOT Act into law, however."
And Obama would sign legislation restricting hand gun ownership but according to some 'he cant make laws'.... All I am saying is be consistant. If bush is at fault for blah blah blah than Obama can also (not will but can) do the same..
Id rather not get into a tit for tat because its pretty much pointless If I came up with the smae number plus one you would get 5 more than I would get 5 more ,...,...
"Germany does not equal the entire EU"
One of your most powerful and influential member
But if you want *one* example:
European Union Applies 'Hate Speech' Rules To Internet
Opposition to multiracialism, homosexuality, immigration effectively banned under new Internet rules.
BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union will be launching new Internet broadcasting rules later this year.
"The European Commission had a duty to protect shared European values," EU Information Society Commissioner Viviane Reding (pictured) told a broadcasting conference in Liverpool, England. "Who in this room... stands for the freedom to spread incitement to racial hatred on the new media?"
Reding said there was a "broad consensus that hate speech rules should also apply to the Internet."
"The abortion issue irritates the crap out of me. I put it right up there with "Staying out of my doctor's office.""
Im sorry you feel that way, to me I put it right up there with every person has the right not to be killed by another person.
"I agree that it is a socially undesirable, and even barbaric process; however I think that our society is such that it conspires to keep effective birth control and education away from young people"
Which, by the way, is why I said society need to stop up and help with women who have kids and to your point they also need to make birth control more available.
"I'm not sure what you mean regarding teachers; I want them to be agents of education, not of someones agenda, and that education should be secular. If you want non-secular education, send your kid to a religious school.
Teachers are watching people kids and as such should be most accountable to *those parents* I, like you, don't want agendas for any side. I don't want School prayer but I also don't want teachers telling 1st graders about different sexual lifestyles..
"I'm not sure you can call someone a fiscal conservative who believes in government spending."
It depends on what the spending is for does it not? Paying down our insane debt, wartime military spending (real wars not faux wars against methods) are of course fine and If someone was going to raise my taxes soley to pay off the national debt I would be in favor. But when you pull out the and better education, medical care,...,... then youre not spending money in a conservative manner.
"Even though Obama will have no power to write laws and it would be political suicide even for a Democratic congress to actually pass such laws in this gun-crazed country."
Funny for 8 years we have been blaming Bush for Iraq when he cant declare war, Blaming him for the patriot act when he cant pass laws,...,.... So Bush is the all powerful and Obama would be a weak little sheep?
But you are right, my statement was over the top, I apologize for that, Ill fix it..
January 21 might be the last time you can exercise your second amendment rights in the same manner you can today!
BTW I dont own a Gun nor will I buy one (I have little kids and I make the personal choice not to have such an item in my home):
Obama: "As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right"
Obama on Handguns: Do you support state legislation to: a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes. b. ban assault weapons? Yes. c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama: "I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns (made so by laws he supports) off the streets"
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns. Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007
--
The man clearly is not a staunch supporter of the second amendment..
The Regan Coalition put the two together because so long as each is willing to be slightly pragmatic they can greatly help each other. As a social conservative and fiscal populist I could care less if my taxes are 28 or 30% so long as the Government stays the hell out of my life and some basic things happen:
1) Abortion ends (But along with that we have to pay the social price to support single mothers and enable safe adoption) 2) Teachers became agents of Parents and not agents of the state (like it used to be before the NEA got so damn powerful) 3) Stay out of people bedrooms, kitchens, and Doctors offices. 4) If its not in the constitution leave it to the states 5) Secure the border (if we need more immigrants to support the economy then let them in legally)
--
That's all I'm really after and Ill vote the person most likely to do that. The problem is many other social conservatives get up in arms over homosexuality, prayer in school,...,... Fiscal Conservatives are so obsessed with Free trade and tax rates that they ignore government spending. This is what has destroyed the Regan coalition. I fully expect the Dem wins today to re-scope and re-focus the groups and you will start seeing gains in the house and senate in 2012..
And here I was hoping to make our federal government *more* limited..
The thing that bothers me *most* about Obama is they longing eye with which he looks to Europe... Sorry but I dont agree with the European Nanny State mentality..
Were McCain 'right wing' you might be correct but he is not nearly as far out to the right as people make him out to be, he had to do allot of convincing to get the base on board with him.
I see allot of Militia members buying guns if Obama wins, January 21 might be the last time you can exercise your second amendment rights..
If they are lucky... The Democrats little spat into socialized medicine (1992-3) cost them the house and senate for about 12 years. My only hope out of tonight will be the Democrats under 60 seats in the senate..
"How about this. There are only two things that malpractice needs to deal with. Helping the injured party, and preventing the incompetent provider from doing any more damage. "
Great idea! we need another burocracy to run along side the health care boondoggle to decided just how much help the injured party needs... Maybe we should eliminate 'pain and suffering lawsuits'
"For dealing with the incompetent provider, make malpractice a criminal penalty, instead of a civil penalty. In other words, throw the incompetent ass in jail."
Oh yea I can see more folk lining up to be doctors, and nurse practitioners as we speak...
"If health care were nationalized rather than localized, New York would be weathering this problem a lot better."
If you look *only* at the financial implication than sure we can ask the people of Buffalo County, South Dakota (avg income $5,000) to help pay for dental care in NY.... However if you *don't want to ignore the point of my argument which is people and states will have less control over their health care under either plan and, frankly, Im more interested in freedom than free healthcare..
"People expect things to be basically the same across states. It's not like it was 200 years ago when few people moved out of their county."
Then people have a piss poor understanding of US civics, it does not mean we should change the role of government to cater to their ignorance. Do you really think people move from one state to another expecting everything to be the same? Having live in three states I can tell you that is most certainly not true.
Hell look at the ages of people in states:
West Virginia, with a median age of 38.9 Utah, with a median age of at 27.4.
These states are going to have different needs and a system which caters to them is best..
"I also wonder how much of a discount doctors would be willing to give if you provide them with free malpractice insurance for accepting patients in the national health insurance program."
Funny, I wonder what would happen to their level of competence and the budget when that tax payer insurance had to cover lawsuits..
"According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the chance of a Cuban child dying at five years of age or younger is 7 per 1000 live births in Cuba, while it's 8 per 1000 in the US. WHO reports that Cuban males have a life expectancy at birth of 75 years and females 79 years. In comparison, the US life expectancy at birth is 75 and 80 years for males and females, respectively. Cuba's infant mortality rate is lower than the US with 5 deaths per thousand in Cuba versus 7 per thousand in the US. Cuba has nearly twice as many physicians as the U.S. -- 5.91 doctors per thousand people compared to 2.56 doctors per thousand, according to WHO."
--
The WHO ignores the distinctly more violent culture we have in the US, worse drug problems, Obesity (not a health care but a cultural problem) and other issues... Life expectancy is a terrible measurement of health care quality.
Health insurance companies are not health care companies? really? no kidding? Here is a question:
What do auto insurance companies offer drivers? Do they help pay for cars? do they change your oil? They actually bring nothing to the table... oh yea except if you total your car and need it replaced.. Health insurance companies provide that, if I got cancer, tomorrow, I would be able to pay bills that I could otherwise not pay... *IT AN INSURANCE POLICY*
The states are "Laboratories of Democracy" and it should be left to them to serve their individual citizens needs. Different demographics, cultural mixes, economic situations, cost of living, and cost of health care mean that a one size fits all federal program is doomed to fail. Both McCain and Obama are trying to make a massive government entitlement to fix a problem with local scope.
I spoke to my mother in New York State yesterday, you know the state which is now forecasting a 40 billion dollar deficit. They would love to scale back medicare during this time to remove things like Dental care and some of the truly luxury services but there is a problem, federal law prevents the removal of services. So even though NY provides services that a ton of other states do not *federal* involvement keeps the state from acting in a way to keep from piling debt on their kids. This is a prime example of why the federal government should not be involved in any way shape or form.
Look at FLA in 2,000 *no* system is without serious problems electronic voting can and should be done but with the following requirements:
1) No network! 2) Two receipts are printed one for the voter and one into a lock box a voter can always challenge their vote if they think things got messed up.
Slashdot Mirror
"Congress never delcared war on Iraq - they only gave Bush a joint resolution to use armed forces based on information provided at the time."
Just because congress wussed out of taking a stand one way or another does *not* remove blame from them for this mess.
"Bush did sign the PATRIOT Act into law, however."
And Obama would sign legislation restricting hand gun ownership but according to some 'he cant make laws'.... All I am saying is be consistant. If bush is at fault for blah blah blah than Obama can also (not will but can) do the same..
"So that outweighs the examples that I provided?"
Id rather not get into a tit for tat because its pretty much pointless If I came up with the smae number plus one you would get 5 more than I would get 5 more , ..., ...
"Germany does not equal the entire EU"
One of your most powerful and influential member
But if you want *one* example:
European Union Applies 'Hate Speech' Rules To Internet
Opposition to multiracialism, homosexuality, immigration effectively banned under new Internet rules.
BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union will be launching new Internet broadcasting rules later this year.
"The European Commission had a duty to protect shared European values," EU Information Society Commissioner Viviane Reding (pictured) told a broadcasting conference in Liverpool, England. "Who in this room... stands for the freedom to spread incitement to racial hatred on the new media?"
Reding said there was a "broad consensus that hate speech rules should also apply to the Internet."
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=6245
--
If telling people what they can and cant say on the internet is not an example of a nanny I dont know what is..
"The abortion issue irritates the crap out of me. I put it right up there with "Staying out of my doctor's office.""
Im sorry you feel that way, to me I put it right up there with every person has the right not to be killed by another person.
"I agree that it is a socially undesirable, and even barbaric process; however I think that our society is such that it conspires to keep effective birth control and education away from young people"
Which, by the way, is why I said society need to stop up and help with women who have kids and to your point they also need to make birth control more available.
"I'm not sure what you mean regarding teachers; I want them to be agents of education, not of someones agenda, and that education should be secular. If you want non-secular education, send your kid to a religious school.
Teachers are watching people kids and as such should be most accountable to *those parents* I, like you, don't want agendas for any side. I don't want School prayer but I also don't want teachers telling 1st graders about different sexual lifestyles..
"I'm not sure you can call someone a fiscal conservative who believes in government spending."
It depends on what the spending is for does it not? Paying down our insane debt, wartime military spending (real wars not faux wars against methods) are of course fine and If someone was going to raise my taxes soley to pay off the national debt I would be in favor. But when you pull out the and better education, medical care, ..., ... then youre not spending money in a conservative manner.
"I'm sure you have your examples of the EU being more of a nanny state, and I'm interested to hear . . ."
Germany banning homeschooling comes right to mind..
"Even though Obama will have no power to write laws and it would be political suicide even for a Democratic congress to actually pass such laws in this gun-crazed country."
Funny for 8 years we have been blaming Bush for Iraq when he cant declare war, Blaming him for the patriot act when he cant pass laws, ..., .... So Bush is the all powerful and Obama would be a weak little sheep?
But you are right, my statement was over the top, I apologize for that, Ill fix it..
January 21 might be the last time you can exercise your second amendment rights in the same manner you can today!
What? Obama is *not* gun friendly
BTW I dont own a Gun nor will I buy one (I have little kids and I make the personal choice not to have such an item in my home):
Obama: "As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right"
Obama on Handguns:
Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama: "I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns (made so by laws he supports) off the streets"
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns. Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007
--
The man clearly is not a staunch supporter of the second amendment..
The Regan Coalition put the two together because so long as each is willing to be slightly pragmatic they can greatly help each other. As a social conservative and fiscal populist I could care less if my taxes are 28 or 30% so long as the Government stays the hell out of my life and some basic things happen:
1) Abortion ends (But along with that we have to pay the social price to support single mothers and enable safe adoption)
2) Teachers became agents of Parents and not agents of the state (like it used to be before the NEA got so damn powerful)
3) Stay out of people bedrooms, kitchens, and Doctors offices.
4) If its not in the constitution leave it to the states
5) Secure the border (if we need more immigrants to support the economy then let them in legally)
--
That's all I'm really after and Ill vote the person most likely to do that. The problem is many other social conservatives get up in arms over homosexuality, prayer in school, ..., ... Fiscal Conservatives are so obsessed with Free trade and tax rates that they ignore government spending. This is what has destroyed the Regan coalition. I fully expect the Dem wins today to re-scope and re-focus the groups and you will start seeing gains in the house and senate in 2012..
And here I was hoping to make our federal government *more* limited..
The thing that bothers me *most* about Obama is they longing eye with which he looks to Europe... Sorry but I dont agree with the European Nanny State mentality..
Right because its ok for someone to 'redistribute' my money so long as they are smart.... Sheesh..
Were McCain 'right wing' you might be correct but he is not nearly as far out to the right as people make him out to be, he had to do allot of convincing to get the base on board with him.
I see allot of Militia members buying guns if Obama wins, January 21 might be the last time you can exercise your second amendment rights..
If they are lucky... The Democrats little spat into socialized medicine (1992-3) cost them the house and senate for about 12 years. My only hope out of tonight will be the Democrats under 60 seats in the senate..
"Typically I wouldn't care about your religion, but I think you really need to be open to the possibility you are not correct."
Are you open to the fact you are not correct?
"There's already a system to "protect" smaller states; the Senate. "
And there is already a one person one vote system to "protect" larger population centers, The House..
"I was merely pointing out that your argument about "leaving it to the states" is highly flawed."
Are the sates not societies? trying to have your cake and eat it too are we?
"Insurance is a lottery companies are taking in money form a large group of people and paying out to the select few"
So are taxes..
"How about this. There are only two things that malpractice needs to deal with. Helping the injured party, and preventing the incompetent provider from doing any more damage. "
Great idea! we need another burocracy to run along side the health care boondoggle to decided just how much help the injured party needs... Maybe we should eliminate 'pain and suffering lawsuits'
"For dealing with the incompetent provider, make malpractice a criminal penalty, instead of a civil penalty. In other words, throw the incompetent ass in jail."
Oh yea I can see more folk lining up to be doctors, and nurse practitioners as we speak...
Umm no, thats a good argument for WM and Utah having different plans... (hint: that's not national)
"If health care were nationalized rather than localized, New York would be weathering this problem a lot better."
If you look *only* at the financial implication than sure we can ask the people of Buffalo County, South Dakota (avg income $5,000) to help pay for dental care in NY.... However if you *don't want to ignore the point of my argument which is people and states will have less control over their health care under either plan and, frankly, Im more interested in freedom than free healthcare..
"People expect things to be basically the same across states. It's not like it was 200 years ago when few people moved out of their county."
Then people have a piss poor understanding of US civics, it does not mean we should change the role of government to cater to their ignorance. Do you really think people move from one state to another expecting everything to be the same? Having live in three states I can tell you that is most certainly not true.
Hell look at the ages of people in states:
West Virginia, with a median age of 38.9
Utah, with a median age of at 27.4.
These states are going to have different needs and a system which caters to them is best..
"I also wonder how much of a discount doctors would be willing to give if you provide them with free malpractice insurance for accepting patients in the national health insurance program."
Funny, I wonder what would happen to their level of competence and the budget when that tax payer insurance had to cover lawsuits..
"According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the chance of a Cuban child dying at five years of age or younger is 7 per 1000 live births in Cuba, while it's 8 per 1000 in the US. WHO reports that Cuban males have a life expectancy at birth of 75 years and females 79 years. In comparison, the US life expectancy at birth is 75 and 80 years for males and females, respectively. Cuba's infant mortality rate is lower than the US with 5 deaths per thousand in Cuba versus 7 per thousand in the US. Cuba has nearly twice as many physicians as the U.S. -- 5.91 doctors per thousand people compared to 2.56 doctors per thousand, according to WHO."
--
The WHO ignores the distinctly more violent culture we have in the US, worse drug problems, Obesity (not a health care but a cultural problem) and other issues... Life expectancy is a terrible measurement of health care quality.
Health insurance companies are not health care companies? really? no kidding? Here is a question:
What do auto insurance companies offer drivers? Do they help pay for cars? do they change your oil? They actually bring nothing to the table... oh yea except if you total your car and need it replaced.. Health insurance companies provide that, if I got cancer, tomorrow, I would be able to pay bills that I could otherwise not pay... *IT AN INSURANCE POLICY*
The states are "Laboratories of Democracy" and it should be left to them to serve their individual citizens needs. Different demographics, cultural mixes, economic situations, cost of living, and cost of health care mean that a one size fits all federal program is doomed to fail. Both McCain and Obama are trying to make a massive government entitlement to fix a problem with local scope.
I spoke to my mother in New York State yesterday, you know the state which is now forecasting a 40 billion dollar deficit. They would love to scale back medicare during this time to remove things like Dental care and some of the truly luxury services but there is a problem, federal law prevents the removal of services. So even though NY provides services that a ton of other states do not *federal* involvement keeps the state from acting in a way to keep from piling debt on their kids. This is a prime example of why the federal government should not be involved in any way shape or form.
Look at FLA in 2,000 *no* system is without serious problems electronic voting can and should be done but with the following requirements:
1) No network!
2) Two receipts are printed one for the voter and one into a lock box a voter can always challenge their vote if they think things got messed up.
So its not just getting out of Iraq you want, its reducing our standing force?