I respect very much what you have to say -- very logical and, yes, very principled. Thanks!
HOWEVER: 1) I disagree with your "Reid's ploy" description of the Dodd Amendment -- 60 votes were necessary to block a (certain) Bush veto on FISA; 2) I think the Dems writ large have slept through the 2006 elections and its aftermath -- to their well-deserved discredit; 3) I am very much keeping in mind the Constitution, which has been grossly eroded in the name of "executive privilege" and the "unitary executive" theory -- there is much work to be done here, but if, as you state, there was "no voter constituency pushing for immunity," then I'm not convinced FISA was a strong enough reed to warrant an Obama attack; and, 4) I'm not willing to await the next coming of the left's Goldwater (who was, or should have been, RFK, in my book) -- make no mistake, McCain's winning would be a flat-out disaster for this country, and I'm too old now to hope for other mirages out there someplace!
Amohat: "If you still like him, you ought to hope his campaign crashes and burns very soon. Only then might he wake up and try to regain his integrity."
Stunningly brilliant, my friend. Except then we're stuck with McCain (who didn't even bother to vote on FISA and said "no" to the Medicare package, which puts him in real tight with big pharma and the insurance types. Oh, and there's the Court ("more like Scalia and Thomas"), health care and Social Security. And did I mention Iraq?
You want that scenario? A huge price for so-called "integrity".
If I thought principles alone would win elections in this country I'd agree wholeheartedly. But they won't, and if we're honest with ourselves, we'd have to agree (just ask Karl Rove, who has made hash out of every principle he ever encountered!).
We cannot bail out on Obama now -- the stakes are just too high.
Not exactly. What's important is that BO -- not McCain -- be elected in the fall. Obama was right on point with the Dodd Amendment -- his "yes" vote then was principled opposition.
Should he have gone to the mat on this one? No way, I'd argue.
Look, 2/3 of America thinks he's still "exotic", a stranger, "not one of us". He just has to increase peoples' comfort level with him first, and since most of the population still think that FISA is essential to thwarting terrorists, fighting this (losing) FISA battle right now just works against the perception problem.
We need a progressive Congress for sure in November, which his 50-state strategy is designed to deliver. Then I believe you'll see him step out on issues like this -- because I still believe he is a man of sincere principles.
Look, I'm ticked off about FISA also. And I'm not an Obama staffer or apologist. I just think we have to keep up the pressure from the left, but not ignore the absolute necessity of tossing out the present D.C. crowd overwhelmingly in November.
Hey, both HRC and Obama voted "yes" on the Dodd Amendment -- the critical piece which would have bagged retroactive immunity entirely.
Give Barack a break here. Yes the new FISA is an abomination, but he could have done nothing to prevent its passage and, had he tried, would have been promptly sandbagged by the fear-mongers on the right.
Keep November in mind, please!
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I respect very much what you have to say -- very logical and, yes, very principled. Thanks! HOWEVER: 1) I disagree with your "Reid's ploy" description of the Dodd Amendment -- 60 votes were necessary to block a (certain) Bush veto on FISA; 2) I think the Dems writ large have slept through the 2006 elections and its aftermath -- to their well-deserved discredit; 3) I am very much keeping in mind the Constitution, which has been grossly eroded in the name of "executive privilege" and the "unitary executive" theory -- there is much work to be done here, but if, as you state, there was "no voter constituency pushing for immunity," then I'm not convinced FISA was a strong enough reed to warrant an Obama attack; and, 4) I'm not willing to await the next coming of the left's Goldwater (who was, or should have been, RFK, in my book) -- make no mistake, McCain's winning would be a flat-out disaster for this country, and I'm too old now to hope for other mirages out there someplace!
Amohat: "If you still like him, you ought to hope his campaign crashes and burns very soon. Only then might he wake up and try to regain his integrity." Stunningly brilliant, my friend. Except then we're stuck with McCain (who didn't even bother to vote on FISA and said "no" to the Medicare package, which puts him in real tight with big pharma and the insurance types. Oh, and there's the Court ("more like Scalia and Thomas"), health care and Social Security. And did I mention Iraq? You want that scenario? A huge price for so-called "integrity".
If I thought principles alone would win elections in this country I'd agree wholeheartedly. But they won't, and if we're honest with ourselves, we'd have to agree (just ask Karl Rove, who has made hash out of every principle he ever encountered!). We cannot bail out on Obama now -- the stakes are just too high.
Not exactly. What's important is that BO -- not McCain -- be elected in the fall. Obama was right on point with the Dodd Amendment -- his "yes" vote then was principled opposition. Should he have gone to the mat on this one? No way, I'd argue. Look, 2/3 of America thinks he's still "exotic", a stranger, "not one of us". He just has to increase peoples' comfort level with him first, and since most of the population still think that FISA is essential to thwarting terrorists, fighting this (losing) FISA battle right now just works against the perception problem. We need a progressive Congress for sure in November, which his 50-state strategy is designed to deliver. Then I believe you'll see him step out on issues like this -- because I still believe he is a man of sincere principles. Look, I'm ticked off about FISA also. And I'm not an Obama staffer or apologist. I just think we have to keep up the pressure from the left, but not ignore the absolute necessity of tossing out the present D.C. crowd overwhelmingly in November.
Hey, both HRC and Obama voted "yes" on the Dodd Amendment -- the critical piece which would have bagged retroactive immunity entirely. Give Barack a break here. Yes the new FISA is an abomination, but he could have done nothing to prevent its passage and, had he tried, would have been promptly sandbagged by the fear-mongers on the right. Keep November in mind, please!