You know something interesting? I've never seen a liberal make that claim. Conservatives tell liberals that all the time, (yeah, I've discussed politics with you before, I know your allegiance) but I've never seen a liberal say that to a conservative. I've also never seen a conservative say that to a conservative. Funny thing, when talking to other conservatives in conservative friendly circles, they tell a different story: democrats are commie pinko socialist dictators.
So which is it, are Democrats commie pinko socialist dictators, or are they just the same as Republicans?
I just want to point out, in case you missed it, that you are voluntarily debating with a person who has "Fuck that pedo The Prophet Muhammad" as his sig. Do you really think this debate will go anywhere productive?
Studies show that certainty is an emotion. Emotions are not arrived at through logical processes. People are not certain of what they know because it makes sense, they are certain of what they know because it feels good. Intellectual debate isn't intellectual. It is the same thing chimpanzees do, flinging poop at other chimps they don't like, only we use words.
And obviously, when I say "people" bunratty, I don't mean you or I. I mean those other buffoons, over there. No, not you either, you look smart enough. You know. The ones who disagree with us. Those guys are like chimps flinging poo.
Rereading the story, you could be right, but I hope not. If the server were outside the firewall, we are talking MAJOR HIPAA violations. I just assumed that nobody would be that irresponsible.
I'm self taught too. If computers are your obsession then the above does not apply to you. Let me compare it to plumbing. I'm not obsessed with plumbing. I am not what might be termed a "plumbing geek." I've done a bit of basic home plumbing repair, and can generally get by without screwing up and flooding the place. However, I would never attempt plumbing repairs at my place of employment. Even if I were a plumbing geek (say I was really into home made fountains or something) I would not go behind the property manager's back and install a water fountain in my office.
Note that I do not include help desk workers and MCSE monkeys under the rubric 'professionals.' I did not mean to imply that self taught computer geeks are stupid or lack basic knowledge. What we generally lack (those of us who haven't gone on to work with enterprise grade equipment) is practical experience working in large heterogeneous environments. But then, so does any recent CS grad.
I guess what I am really trying to say is, practical experience in the field matters.
a) "their users" b) this is slashdot. I wouldn't call them that to their face, but this is a place for technical people, and sometimes we blow off steam c) I'm TRYING to be insulting. glad to know it is working. d) I do not serve YOU, therefore, my respect for you is based on your communications with me, not on any job requirements
Anyhow, this is a stupid side track you've taken us down, and I'm done with it, let's move on to more relevant discussion, shall we?
This story has polarized Slashdot into the "I actually work in IT in a systems administration capacity" camp and the "I tinker with computers as a hobby" camp.
Excuse me, but how does your statement not display a high level of arrogance? "Either you work in IT or you are a tinkerer." Am I a tinkerer then?
How the fuck should I know what you are?
You know what is arrogant? Thinking that you are so smart that a few weeks or months of casual tinkering for you is the same as years of on the job experience for the average guy. That is exactly the attitude I'm seeing here. Look, I'm sure you are very smart and very knowledgeable, I'm not trying to insult you, I am just saying, only experts are experts. Hobbyists are not experts. Being a smart guy does not make you an expert. Only focus and time will do that. Nobody becomes an expert overnight, no matter how smart they are.
I see it all the time, someone is smart, and probably well educated in their field. They are usually the smartest guy in the room. But they think that intelligence trumps experience, and that just isn't true. The guy who has a 100 IQ and has been doing something as a profession, working eight hour days for twenty years, is generally going to be MUCH better at it than the guy with a 200 IQ who just picked it up.
Well that is what I am getting at, how much is your time wort to you? If it takes you all day to clean your boiler, and you do not enjoy cleaning your boiler, how much has it actually cost you? Also, without the experience doing it hundreds of times, you are unlikely to see all the things a professional will see. Then, your house burns down because you missed the cracked manifold (or whatever) that a professional would have seen on first glance.
I'm not against hobbyists and do it yourselfers doing their own thing on their own time with their own materials, if that floats their boat. I'm just tired of the "Holiday Inn" mentality I see among smart people. "Well, I'm not a (whatever) but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night..." There are certainly some talented hobbyists out there, and some (like me) go on to become professionals in some field. But tinkering around with something is just not the same as putting in the ten thousand hours it takes to become an expert in any field. Being smarter does not cut down on the time it takes, either. It takes experience, and experience takes doing.
I guess I must be getting old because I can remember being on the other side of this argument when I was younger...
I suspect that he never asked IT, but just went ahead and did it, then demanded they open up a port for him. Nowhere does this division head even mention a conversation with IT, asking them if they could provide him with a solution. And he's shocked that IT would ask for a login, fer chrissake? He wasn't told "no" at all! He was told, "Yes, just give us a login to check things out," and he wonders if he SHOULD?!?! Like he has a choice! This division head is a prick, sorry. Irresponsible and full of himself, probably thinks he is the smartest guy on the planet. He obviously did not come to Slashdot to have his question answered, (what should I DO?!?! Should I follow hospital and federal regulations, or tell them all to go to hell? What do YOU all think?) he came here to have his feelings of superiority validated, which just proves how utterly clueless he is. I'm glad he's getting castigated, he deserves it.
Your post confuses me, did you perhaps mean to reply to someone else? Who is the OP you refer to? Where do they talk of broadcasting patient data? Can you point out where your tinkerers display more knowledge than the professionals? Do you have some reason for suspecting I am a manager?
You can do all your own plumbing? Hehe, how nice for you (and your local plumber, who I'm sure appreciates the extra business) I love do-it-yourselfers. Especially the vast majority of you who actually can't, but think you can. I especially love it when you denigrate professions that require specialized knowledge and talents as 'simply a convenience for the purchaser' as if everyone could perform plumbing and painting equally well, if only they set their mind to it.
Don't get me wrong, I am perfectly capable of performing basic plumbing, cleaning my house, painting my walls and driving myself. I grew up with do it yourselfers. I'm a do-it-yourselfer too, or I was until I realized that I am not an expert at everything, that my leisure time is valuable to me, and that someone who has spent their life working professionally in a field is, more than likely, more knowledgeable than I am regarding that field. But if you derive pleasure from doing things yourself, more power to you. The extra money you spend over hiring a professional is part of your entertainment budget, I get it.
Whoa, there, bucky, we're talking about HIPAA here. You can't get a medical degree, nor can you get malpractice insurance, unless you know VERY well what HIPAA is. Here's a clue: it applies even if you are not using computers at all and merely storing patient records the old fashioned way.
Sorry your feelings got hurt there, sport, but there's nothing wrong with "little users." That is what lusers stands for, look it up. I'm sure that you have no slang or jargon in your field that outsiders might find strange or offensive.
By the way, IT "support" does not mean supporting your petty insecurities or stroking your ego. Doing that would take time from our real job, and we are not trained psychological professionals, so we're not very good at it.
Well, you know, I started out as a tinkerer too. As a tinkerer, I had absolutely no clue about federal laws such as HIPAA. Now, I have to know such things and have received special training regarding the laws I must uphold. As a tinkerer, I never had the chance to play around with high end gear such as SANs. I never really worked with enterprise level software. As a tinkerer, I knew a lot, more than many highly trained IT people. But there were HUGE gaps in my practical knowledge of real world enterprise level IT. Do you understand? Being an 'expert' tinkerer does not give you experience in the real nitty-gritty of enterprise IT. Your experience with IT likely involves front line support IT, not the real experts.
I do have to ask, does your attitude apply to other professions, or just IT? Where would you look for expert medical advice? Legal advice? Plumbing? Would you ask an expert or a hobbyist?
No, it doesn't suck. I'm all for "let's get it done" and most of us still have that attitude. Just not when it comes to our privacy of medical records, federal lawsuits and DEATH. Yeah, death. This is a hospital, you know, and that makes a huge difference.
So, a doctor dies and goes to heaven. He's waiting in line at the Pearly Gates, but he figures, "I'm a doctor, I shouldn't have to wait in line like normal people." He goes up to ask St. Peter, who tells him everyone has to wait their turn. Then he sees another doctor walk right up to the Pearly Gates, wave to St. Peter, and walk right in. "Hey, how come THAT doctor got to cut in front," he asks. "Oh," says St. Peter, "That's not a doctor. That's God. He just likes to play doctor sometimes."
Slashdot Mirror
People don't want to be improved. Twitter embraces that. Facebook too.
When you say people, does that include yourself, or are you special?
You know something interesting? I've never seen a liberal make that claim. Conservatives tell liberals that all the time, (yeah, I've discussed politics with you before, I know your allegiance) but I've never seen a liberal say that to a conservative. I've also never seen a conservative say that to a conservative. Funny thing, when talking to other conservatives in conservative friendly circles, they tell a different story: democrats are commie pinko socialist dictators.
So which is it, are Democrats commie pinko socialist dictators, or are they just the same as Republicans?
I just want to point out, in case you missed it, that you are voluntarily debating with a person who has "Fuck that pedo The Prophet Muhammad" as his sig. Do you really think this debate will go anywhere productive?
Studies show that certainty is an emotion. Emotions are not arrived at through logical processes. People are not certain of what they know because it makes sense, they are certain of what they know because it feels good. Intellectual debate isn't intellectual. It is the same thing chimpanzees do, flinging poop at other chimps they don't like, only we use words.
And obviously, when I say "people" bunratty, I don't mean you or I. I mean those other buffoons, over there. No, not you either, you look smart enough. You know. The ones who disagree with us. Those guys are like chimps flinging poo.
In the US, at least, we as a society have become much more divisive, and no amount of technology is going to reflect differently.
Fuck you, asshole, who the fuck are you to call us divisive?
Rereading the story, you could be right, but I hope not. If the server were outside the firewall, we are talking MAJOR HIPAA violations. I just assumed that nobody would be that irresponsible.
Awww, you're trying to insult me! How precious.
The coarse language is part of my crotchety old low user ID persona, dagnabit.
"I'll take 'the rapists' for $500, Alex"
"That's 'therapists,' Tom."
I'm self taught too. If computers are your obsession then the above does not apply to you. Let me compare it to plumbing. I'm not obsessed with plumbing. I am not what might be termed a "plumbing geek." I've done a bit of basic home plumbing repair, and can generally get by without screwing up and flooding the place. However, I would never attempt plumbing repairs at my place of employment. Even if I were a plumbing geek (say I was really into home made fountains or something) I would not go behind the property manager's back and install a water fountain in my office.
Note that I do not include help desk workers and MCSE monkeys under the rubric 'professionals.' I did not mean to imply that self taught computer geeks are stupid or lack basic knowledge. What we generally lack (those of us who haven't gone on to work with enterprise grade equipment) is practical experience working in large heterogeneous environments. But then, so does any recent CS grad.
I guess what I am really trying to say is, practical experience in the field matters.
a) "their users"
b) this is slashdot. I wouldn't call them that to their face, but this is a place for technical people, and sometimes we blow off steam
c) I'm TRYING to be insulting. glad to know it is working.
d) I do not serve YOU, therefore, my respect for you is based on your communications with me, not on any job requirements
Anyhow, this is a stupid side track you've taken us down, and I'm done with it, let's move on to more relevant discussion, shall we?
This story has polarized Slashdot into the "I actually work in IT in a systems administration capacity" camp and the "I tinker with computers as a hobby" camp.
Excuse me, but how does your statement not display a high level of arrogance? "Either you work in IT or you are a tinkerer." Am I a tinkerer then?
How the fuck should I know what you are?
You know what is arrogant? Thinking that you are so smart that a few weeks or months of casual tinkering for you is the same as years of on the job experience for the average guy. That is exactly the attitude I'm seeing here. Look, I'm sure you are very smart and very knowledgeable, I'm not trying to insult you, I am just saying, only experts are experts. Hobbyists are not experts. Being a smart guy does not make you an expert. Only focus and time will do that. Nobody becomes an expert overnight, no matter how smart they are.
I see it all the time, someone is smart, and probably well educated in their field. They are usually the smartest guy in the room. But they think that intelligence trumps experience, and that just isn't true. The guy who has a 100 IQ and has been doing something as a profession, working eight hour days for twenty years, is generally going to be MUCH better at it than the guy with a 200 IQ who just picked it up.
Well that is what I am getting at, how much is your time wort to you? If it takes you all day to clean your boiler, and you do not enjoy cleaning your boiler, how much has it actually cost you? Also, without the experience doing it hundreds of times, you are unlikely to see all the things a professional will see. Then, your house burns down because you missed the cracked manifold (or whatever) that a professional would have seen on first glance.
I'm not against hobbyists and do it yourselfers doing their own thing on their own time with their own materials, if that floats their boat. I'm just tired of the "Holiday Inn" mentality I see among smart people. "Well, I'm not a (whatever) but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night..." There are certainly some talented hobbyists out there, and some (like me) go on to become professionals in some field. But tinkering around with something is just not the same as putting in the ten thousand hours it takes to become an expert in any field. Being smarter does not cut down on the time it takes, either. It takes experience, and experience takes doing.
I guess I must be getting old because I can remember being on the other side of this argument when I was younger...
I suspect that he never asked IT, but just went ahead and did it, then demanded they open up a port for him. Nowhere does this division head even mention a conversation with IT, asking them if they could provide him with a solution. And he's shocked that IT would ask for a login, fer chrissake? He wasn't told "no" at all! He was told, "Yes, just give us a login to check things out," and he wonders if he SHOULD?!?! Like he has a choice! This division head is a prick, sorry. Irresponsible and full of himself, probably thinks he is the smartest guy on the planet. He obviously did not come to Slashdot to have his question answered, (what should I DO?!?! Should I follow hospital and federal regulations, or tell them all to go to hell? What do YOU all think?) he came here to have his feelings of superiority validated, which just proves how utterly clueless he is. I'm glad he's getting castigated, he deserves it.
Your post confuses me, did you perhaps mean to reply to someone else? Who is the OP you refer to? Where do they talk of broadcasting patient data? Can you point out where your tinkerers display more knowledge than the professionals? Do you have some reason for suspecting I am a manager?
You can do all your own plumbing? Hehe, how nice for you (and your local plumber, who I'm sure appreciates the extra business) I love do-it-yourselfers. Especially the vast majority of you who actually can't, but think you can. I especially love it when you denigrate professions that require specialized knowledge and talents as 'simply a convenience for the purchaser' as if everyone could perform plumbing and painting equally well, if only they set their mind to it.
Don't get me wrong, I am perfectly capable of performing basic plumbing, cleaning my house, painting my walls and driving myself. I grew up with do it yourselfers. I'm a do-it-yourselfer too, or I was until I realized that I am not an expert at everything, that my leisure time is valuable to me, and that someone who has spent their life working professionally in a field is, more than likely, more knowledgeable than I am regarding that field. But if you derive pleasure from doing things yourself, more power to you. The extra money you spend over hiring a professional is part of your entertainment budget, I get it.
Whoa, there, bucky, we're talking about HIPAA here. You can't get a medical degree, nor can you get malpractice insurance, unless you know VERY well what HIPAA is. Here's a clue: it applies even if you are not using computers at all and merely storing patient records the old fashioned way.
Awww, did um get ums feewing huwt?
Sorry your feelings got hurt there, sport, but there's nothing wrong with "little users." That is what lusers stands for, look it up. I'm sure that you have no slang or jargon in your field that outsiders might find strange or offensive.
By the way, IT "support" does not mean supporting your petty insecurities or stroking your ego. Doing that would take time from our real job, and we are not trained psychological professionals, so we're not very good at it.
Did you not even read the summary? He says he set up the server himself, using BSD. It is absolutely clear he wants port 8443 open bidirectionally.
So what?
Well, you know, I started out as a tinkerer too. As a tinkerer, I had absolutely no clue about federal laws such as HIPAA. Now, I have to know such things and have received special training regarding the laws I must uphold. As a tinkerer, I never had the chance to play around with high end gear such as SANs. I never really worked with enterprise level software. As a tinkerer, I knew a lot, more than many highly trained IT people. But there were HUGE gaps in my practical knowledge of real world enterprise level IT. Do you understand? Being an 'expert' tinkerer does not give you experience in the real nitty-gritty of enterprise IT. Your experience with IT likely involves front line support IT, not the real experts.
I do have to ask, does your attitude apply to other professions, or just IT? Where would you look for expert medical advice? Legal advice? Plumbing? Would you ask an expert or a hobbyist?
No, it doesn't suck. I'm all for "let's get it done" and most of us still have that attitude. Just not when it comes to our privacy of medical records, federal lawsuits and DEATH. Yeah, death. This is a hospital, you know, and that makes a huge difference.
So, a doctor dies and goes to heaven. He's waiting in line at the Pearly Gates, but he figures, "I'm a doctor, I shouldn't have to wait in line like normal people." He goes up to ask St. Peter, who tells him everyone has to wait their turn. Then he sees another doctor walk right up to the Pearly Gates, wave to St. Peter, and walk right in. "Hey, how come THAT doctor got to cut in front," he asks. "Oh," says St. Peter, "That's not a doctor. That's God. He just likes to play doctor sometimes."
Thanks for that lesson in etiquette and proper manners, "ObiWanKenblowme."