what are YOU talking about. HPUX has been up and running on IA64 for well over a YEAR now. Let's also not forget that they are the ones who pioneered alot of the early work on VLIW and that IA64 is a joint project between HP and Intel. Origonally HP was planning on doing a PA-VLIW and it was decided that they didn't have the resources to pull it off....enter Intel !!!
it should be noted to all the trolls out there, that the emu10k1 user-land tools include an assembler and loader for the cards dsp chip which means that you can not only compile/load the effects it includes (such as chorus and flanger) but you can PROGRAM YOUR OWN EFFECTS (tres cool). And of course this comes with ample documentation.
apparently good os design practices are a new concept to you. prink is a RING BUFFER meaning it will over-run the begining when it's full -- ie to SAVE MEMORY
if printk was dynamically allocated and you were running ip aftables after about a week you would have used up all your available memory for on filtered packet messages from iptables
so yes a static rung buffer is a good idea
ps - I also agree with linus's feelings on kernel debuggers
Re:out with the old in with the ....
on
Benchmark Madness
·
· Score: 1
admitantly there not the same -- but that's why you do multiple *diffrent* benchmarks:)
ok, i can kinda see a kernel compile cause of all the io but what ever happened to good old find and grep. Certainly they could have come up with some better tests.
If everything was as rosy as you told it, then computing would never have any problems!
no there would still be problems, they'd just get fixed.
"I'd argue that a slight limit in freedom is worth big gains in quality and compatibility. But that's just me;)"
well not just you, i bet MS would too
"I said that ALSA was custom library (as opposed to a standard one like libc), not that it was a proprietory interface."
Without ALSA lib how are you supposed to use the features of ALSA? Magic? How is it "custom", OSS is on the way out and ALSA the way in so ALSA has OSS support, ALSA lib is the way of the future. I have no idea what the hell your trying to say with the interface/lib thing...
How does that response get a +2, oh well...
I expect better from a troll of your caliber:P
"My point is that forks shouldn't be allowed to happen unless they are forced to follow a standard."
Then why GPL the kernel if you won't let people use it as they wish.
"This can easily be done by Linus not allowing forks to use the "Linux" trademark without standards compliance"
Yeah well see he can't LET them use his trademark or else he LOSES IT. Remember Napster v. Offspring. What they can do is say, "XYZ O.S. is based and Linux(TM) technology and compliant with it's *standards*[POSIX, LSB(whatever that means?)] etc..." So...
(1) as long as they cite Linus as the holder of the trademark, they can use it however they want, and
(2) there is nothing he can do if they claim compliance with linux and their product ain't compliant. Maybe they don't even want compliance (ever think of that ?) BUT since linux is GPL'd, we get to see the SOURCE (yey)
"
Without being forced like this, it is all too easy (because programmers are lazy, I know I am!) for companies to make proprietory interfaces (say through another library like ALSA does) just to make their job easier."
Wrong, Try again dumbass...
(1) How are the programers creating "
proprietory interfaces", IT'S OPEN SOURCE
(2) ALSA or Advanced Linux Sound Arch. is slated to be the replacement to OSS lite in the current kernel. There is NOTHING "proprietory" (there's that word again...) about it, it's developmental and doesn't belong in the stable tree so the author kept it out as a seperate project. BTW- it will probably be merged in 2.5 or so the rumor goes....
Gnu libc is the api - your supposed to talk to the kernel through it. IBM et al want support in linux for things such as NUMA and super n-way scalability, which frankly people working in their spare time aren't going to be in any rush to implement (assuming they want to have such features). If IBM wants these 'enterprise' features, their best bet is to fork the kernel. There is nothing to say that the IBM (or who ever) fork will be incompatable, that's where posix comes in -- look at the NSA secure linux fork -- programs will still compile (through autoconf/automake configurations) and if they don't it should be trivial to fix them. Fragmentation isn't nessisarily a bad thing, but fragmentation without a standards base is.
Debuging info is NOT BLOAT, it's there for a reason. If you don't want it -- remove the -g from CFLAGS in the Makefile or you can even strip them out with objutils (?)
Furthermore, COMMENTS (?!?!?) are NOT BLOAT !!! Nor are they redundant documentation -- comments in code are explain what's going on in the code, where else is this info being repeated. In a college level CS class YOU WILL FAIL if you don't sufficently comment your code. Commenting code has nothing to do with how well of a programmer you are, even the best will groan at a qsort() with out comments. My motto is: legible code also includes comments !!!
You have obviously NEVER taken any CS classes -- because then you'd know how wrong you are. Furthermore the 'principles' of Extreme Programming are pretty common sense and I would bet that MANY code shops practise them. Where I work, I had to run a SLEW of regression tests when I just removed some debugging symbols.
...I have this sneaking suspicion that any abstraction of code -- UML, flowcharts, proofs -- is only that... What does this mean ? Yes, you can PROVE (read: TRUTH) the correctness of an algorithm, the correctness lives in the proof.
anyone ever notice how on/. everyone comments on things they have no base in. no offense to the poster but this really got to me.
the ia64 linux kernel port already supports x86 binary compatability mode -- surely it won't be as fast as a native compile but it works and yes i've seen it.
Hope the engineer that built that one feels at least slightly guilty.
That is an absolutely terrible thing to say. I'm sure he does but you can't blame the engineer for what happened, especially if it's an unproven technology. Why not blame the idiot who planned the test and put the men at risk. Furthermore, if they *are* testing new torpedos why in the hell would they use armed torpedos, why not fire off a bunch of duds and test that way. I have heard (a long time ago) about the problem US subs had with timed torpedos blowing before they reached the safe limit. The whole thing seems fishy to me (really, no pun intended) All I know is that someone has alot of explaining to do.
as always slashdotters shine through
ORIGONALLY, Emmanuual Goldstein was a character in Orson Wells 1984, but yes it the character in that movie hackers was a nod to the 2600 guy. Sorry if it was harsh but 1984 is such a good book:)
I agree that this will help AOL's battle w/ Microsoft/MSN, but you are forgetting something.
TIVO is not a web browser, have you ever used a webtv or even dreamcast's web browser, IT SUCKS.
Resolution on tv sucks. Text is hard to read.
Furthermore a settop box is a niche market and AOL is too smart to trap themselves in a niche market like that. I'd be much happier to see a transmeta posered web pad even if it ran AOL(atleast we can try and hack out the aol part).
Stupid (l)users may be aol's bread and butter but those stupid (l)users are still trapped in The Microsoft Way(TM) they need office and solitare (who doesn't).
AOL has something bigger planned, who knows, maybe they actually think linux users will pick up AOL (god forbid) or perhaps think that desktop linux will pickup soon and storm like it did in the server arena. I don't see either of those two things happening TOO soon. A web pad is the best idea.
I'm not sure what they think they are doing but I'll tell you this much, a tv top box it a BAD idea.
Slashdot Mirror
JUNKBUSTER
:)
(which can be found at www.google.com)
sorry taco
what are YOU talking about. HPUX has been up and running on IA64 for well over a YEAR now. Let's also not forget that they are the ones who pioneered alot of the early work on VLIW and that IA64 is a joint project between HP and Intel. Origonally HP was planning on doing a PA-VLIW and it was decided that they didn't have the resources to pull it off....enter Intel !!!
it should be noted to all the trolls out there, that the emu10k1 user-land tools include an assembler and loader for the cards dsp chip which means that you can not only compile/load the effects it includes (such as chorus and flanger) but you can PROGRAM YOUR OWN EFFECTS (tres cool). And of course this comes with ample documentation.
you can map MAC addresses to ip's with dhcp -- thus a static ip
you know you've had too much physics when you read that comment and start calculating in your head...
apparently good os design practices are a new concept to you. prink is a RING BUFFER meaning it will over-run the begining when it's full -- ie to SAVE MEMORY
if printk was dynamically allocated and you were running ip aftables after about a week you would have used up all your available memory for on filtered packet messages from iptables
so yes a static rung buffer is a good idea
ps - I also agree with linus's feelings on kernel debuggers
admitantly there not the same -- but that's why you do multiple *diffrent* benchmarks :)
ok, i can kinda see a kernel compile cause of all the io but what ever happened to good old find and grep. Certainly they could have come up with some better tests.
find / |grep blah
SEE, now that's alot of IO
Your wrong from the first line.
;)"
If everything was as rosy as you told it, then computing would never have any problems!
no there would still be problems, they'd just get fixed.
"I'd argue that a slight limit in freedom is worth big gains in quality and compatibility. But that's just me
well not just you, i bet MS would too
"I said that ALSA was custom library (as opposed to a standard one like libc), not that it was a proprietory interface."
Without ALSA lib how are you supposed to use the features of ALSA? Magic? How is it "custom", OSS is on the way out and ALSA the way in so ALSA has OSS support, ALSA lib is the way of the future. I have no idea what the hell your trying to say with the interface/lib thing...
How does that response get a +2, oh well... I expect better from a troll of your caliber :P
"My point is that forks shouldn't be allowed to happen unless they are forced to follow a standard."
Then why GPL the kernel if you won't let people use it as they wish.
"This can easily be done by Linus not allowing forks to use the "Linux" trademark without standards compliance"
Yeah well see he can't LET them use his trademark or else he LOSES IT. Remember Napster v. Offspring. What they can do is say, "XYZ O.S. is based and Linux(TM) technology and compliant with it's *standards*[POSIX, LSB(whatever that means?)] etc..." So...
(1) as long as they cite Linus as the holder of the trademark, they can use it however they want, and
(2) there is nothing he can do if they claim compliance with linux and their product ain't compliant. Maybe they don't even want compliance (ever think of that ?) BUT since linux is GPL'd, we get to see the SOURCE (yey)
" Without being forced like this, it is all too easy (because programmers are lazy, I know I am!) for companies to make proprietory interfaces (say through another library like ALSA does) just to make their job easier."
Wrong, Try again dumbass...
(1) How are the programers creating " proprietory interfaces", IT'S OPEN SOURCE
(2) ALSA or Advanced Linux Sound Arch. is slated to be the replacement to OSS lite in the current kernel. There is NOTHING "proprietory" (there's that word again...) about it, it's developmental and doesn't belong in the stable tree so the author kept it out as a seperate project. BTW- it will probably be merged in 2.5 or so the rumor goes....
Gnu libc is the api - your supposed to talk to the kernel through it. IBM et al want support in linux for things such as NUMA and super n-way scalability, which frankly people working in their spare time aren't going to be in any rush to implement (assuming they want to have such features). If IBM wants these 'enterprise' features, their best bet is to fork the kernel. There is nothing to say that the IBM (or who ever) fork will be incompatable, that's where posix comes in -- look at the NSA secure linux fork -- programs will still compile (through autoconf/automake configurations) and if they don't it should be trivial to fix them. Fragmentation isn't nessisarily a bad thing, but fragmentation without a standards base is.
(I think this is a troll, but I'll bite...)
Debuging info is NOT BLOAT, it's there for a reason. If you don't want it -- remove the -g from CFLAGS in the Makefile or you can even strip them out with objutils (?)
Furthermore, COMMENTS (?!?!?) are NOT BLOAT !!! Nor are they redundant documentation -- comments in code are explain what's going on in the code, where else is this info being repeated. In a college level CS class YOU WILL FAIL if you don't sufficently comment your code. Commenting code has nothing to do with how well of a programmer you are, even the best will groan at a qsort() with out comments. My motto is: legible code also includes comments !!!
well if you consider gdb useful yes.
You have obviously NEVER taken any CS classes -- because then you'd know how wrong you are. Furthermore the 'principles' of Extreme Programming are pretty common sense and I would bet that MANY code shops practise them. Where I work, I had to run a SLEW of regression tests when I just removed some debugging symbols.
...I have this sneaking suspicion that any abstraction of code -- UML, flowcharts, proofs -- is only that...
/. everyone comments on things they have no base in. no offense to the poster but this really got to me.
What does this mean ? Yes, you can PROVE (read: TRUTH) the correctness of an algorithm, the correctness lives in the proof.
anyone ever notice how on
the ia64 linux kernel port already supports x86 binary compatability mode -- surely it won't be as fast as a native compile but it works and yes i've seen it.
Layout
Hope the engineer that built that one feels at least slightly guilty.
That is an absolutely terrible thing to say. I'm sure he does but you can't blame the engineer for what happened, especially if it's an unproven technology. Why not blame the idiot who planned the test and put the men at risk. Furthermore, if they *are* testing new torpedos why in the hell would they use armed torpedos, why not fire off a bunch of duds and test that way. I have heard (a long time ago) about the problem US subs had with timed torpedos blowing before they reached the safe limit. The whole thing seems fishy to me (really, no pun intended) All I know is that someone has alot of explaining to do.
as always slashdotters shine through ORIGONALLY, Emmanuual Goldstein was a character in Orson Wells 1984, but yes it the character in that movie hackers was a nod to the 2600 guy. Sorry if it was harsh but 1984 is such a good book :)
I have a compaq laptop w/ a crappy lucent winmodem -- I got a 56k US Robotics PCMCIA, works beautifully.
I agree that this will help AOL's battle w/ Microsoft/MSN, but you are forgetting something. TIVO is not a web browser, have you ever used a webtv or even dreamcast's web browser, IT SUCKS. Resolution on tv sucks. Text is hard to read. Furthermore a settop box is a niche market and AOL is too smart to trap themselves in a niche market like that. I'd be much happier to see a transmeta posered web pad even if it ran AOL(atleast we can try and hack out the aol part). Stupid (l)users may be aol's bread and butter but those stupid (l)users are still trapped in The Microsoft Way(TM) they need office and solitare (who doesn't). AOL has something bigger planned, who knows, maybe they actually think linux users will pick up AOL (god forbid) or perhaps think that desktop linux will pickup soon and storm like it did in the server arena. I don't see either of those two things happening TOO soon. A web pad is the best idea. I'm not sure what they think they are doing but I'll tell you this much, a tv top box it a BAD idea.
I mean how the hell do they plan to change the "III"'s to a "IV".