I'm from Central America, and I live in Florida. Is FL part of the "deep south" ?
Geez, I really didn't need to know that... You know what rhetorical means, right? Or are you still trying to establish credentials?
I don't know what anti-abortionists you know, but the ones I ever met were definitely in favor of killing those who performed abortions. They just couldn't admit it or act on it without fear of prosecution.
Last I heard they were using pipe bombs, not guns, so your assertion about 'there would be more shootings' is invalidated on 2 counts.
And what would you be saying here if the police did not arrest someone in that situation and that person was carrying grenades and killed a lot of people.
What would you be saying if while the police were arresting an innocent in fatigues, a stockbroker in a suit pulled out a gun and shot 10 people? Furthermore, why do you want to make this shit hypothetical?
Chances are you'd be blaming the police, singing an entirely different tune. The police really are in a Catch 22 in situations like these.
I don't know if you're directing this at me, or what, but I want to make it clear that I blame the police for nothing. It is the politicians who are the problems, and police are only a problem insofar as they act as politicians. If you presume to know how I feel about police, you will be wrong.
Yess, police are in a tough situation, and I sympathize, but that doesn't make the guy wrong for doing what he did. If were screaming 'filty pigs oppressed me' it would be different, but he's not.
so he should shut up, return to work, and continue to persist on quietly.
I disagree. Vehemently. Your remark is gratuitous, and displays a deeply ingrained apathy. I appreciate the trouble he went to to write the article and the thought he has and will put into what happened to him. It will make him a better citizen. Too bad you can't learn from it, but then, that's not his fault, is it.
If I see a guy walking down the street wearing army gear, I would hope a police officer would inquire what equipment he or she was carrying.
That's a pretty broad statement. Where do you live that fatigues aren't common? (that's a rhetorical question).
Myself, I'd prefer that cops stop and question people who are breaking a law, or maybe anyone wearing a tie, or driving an expensive car, since those tend to be hallmarks of those engagiong in criminal behavior...
It is an issue of a guy where military garb and being unwilling to cooperate with standard procedure of the police that got him arrested. He deserved it.
No, not imflamatory at all. We're glad to hear you'll be so cooperative about yeilding your constitutional rights when a member of my squad doesn't like the clothes you're wearing or the spot you picked to occupy... heheh.
In order for me to continue a discussion with you, you need from me, or I will write you off as a contentious ass and move on...
I just don't know which one HE WAS REPRESENTING
Funny, that was one of the things I like most about the article: the fact that it didn't try to advance a specific agenda, but simply described what happened.
In the final analysis, it won't matter so much what specific cause each the people in the streets were supporting, what will matter is that they were there, and they were protesting against a regime that is not doing right by the american people.
It is a clear-cut case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', imo. Decades from now we may recall that 'Philadephia 2000 was one of the early actions, where some 5000 people showed up, and a few less than a 10th of them were imprisoned in a prison built (refurbished) for the purpose by the city of Philadelphia with funding provided by the backers of the Republican Party....
I mean, who really cares that it was tea that got thrown in the harbour at Boston? It could just have easily been.... whatever. The only salient point is that it was something that people cared about that was being used as a tool of oppression against them...
The only mention of what this guy was actually protesting was an easily-missed two words in his article. If this guy was serious about his cause, he would have given it at least a sentence.
Or perhaps he felt (as do I) that reasons to protest in the public eye against the republicrat/demipublican... activities... are manifest to any thinking person.
I think what you mean is not "if [he] was serious", but "if he expects [you] to take him seriously". Two quite different propositions.
You are not required to show anything to the police unless they can present you with just cause
Practically speaking, last I checked most states had laws requiring citizens to carry 'papers' -- i.e. some form of state issued identification -- on their persons at all times. In practice, a cop asking you for it is 'just cause'. Of course, you have to understand that it is 'just cause' by the officer's definition, not yours...
NEVER, NEVER said "I've already tried that and it doesn't do any good." I honestly believe the fruits of our protests resulted in the overthrow of the dictatorship we where under.
Okay, okay. Your original post sounded to me like more than a mere literary critque, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Here's a link that might help give you some context:
Especially check out the links at the end of the 2600 article. Maybe you should try a web search on terms like boycott, WTO, protest...
Kind hard to believe you have access to the internet and can't get even the most basic information about political dissent in the US, but I guess that's part of the reason for the protests...
If you don't understand what he's protesting against, then he failed.
Bullshit. If you don't understand what he was protesting against, then you haven't been paying attention. That's not his failing, it's yours, and it puts you squarely in the camp of the politicians, who really, really don't want to understand what everyone is protesting about...
Furthermore, who the hell are you to say he failed? By your own admission, you don't know what he was trying to accomplish, so you certainly are in no position to judge his success or failure...
Look, I come from a country where all of the sudden they took our constitutional rights away from us and it was not legal to gather in groups to talk against the government.
You mean kinda like the US, or any other country at some point in history, for that matter....
I understand what being a part of something "bigger". I lived it.
Debatable, based on your demonstrated lack of comprehension of this situation... You may have 'lived it', but you clearly don't understand it.
I've "tried" already, and have been tear gassed and shot at (not hit).
So your criticism is just sour grapes? Have I? I'll let you sort that one out for yourself as though it matters a damn to you.
You don't want to go there...
I don't know who "people like you are", I'm just giving an opinion based on my life experience.
No, you were just picking at somebody who tried to become part of something because he thought it might cause some things to happen. You're just telling him "don't bother", and now you're claiming additionally "I've already tried that and it doesn't do any good."
People like you are people who make the world safe for republicrats and demopublicans. And since you don't seem to understand what I mean by that, you probably don't even want to be having this discussion.
You have the right to go where you want to. However, if you commit a crime, that right is taken away and you are put in prison.
What a refreshing idea. Lock up criminals. Can I start with the politicians? I don't know of a single one that couldn't be so catagorized?
if you abuse that right and use it to block traffic, hinder the movement of
others, etc. I have no problem with the police removing you from the scene
Good, then you won't have any problem with the protesters imprisoning the politicians, then, right for, say, selling out to special interests and trampling my rights in the process. After all, that wouldn't block traffic, and it would get the thugs off the streets, or more to the point, out of the congressional assembly...
he police allowed the protesters to assemble even
after it was clear they were hindering the movement of the WTO delegates
But why didn't they prosecute the WTO reps? That was clearly the will of the people.
[the Seattle protesters] were there for the sole purpose of hindering such movement.
... as is their right. It's called 'self-defense', and it's fundamental. They same applies in Philly. If the law won't protect us from the politicians, we must protect ourselves.
If you read the newspapers in many other countries they
accused the US of intentionally encouraging protests and dealing insufficiently with them because the US wanted to hinder talks at that point in time.
2) The law was upheld to protect the townspeople of Philly. Nothing unamerican and stupid about that.
Bullshit. Police actions were taken to silence dissent. The mayor admits it in so many words in the news conference published in the Inquirer, and the police commisioner threatened to tear-gas the non-republicrats before the first protester lifted a sign...
2) Most welfare recipients are able bodied people that weren't raised to be responsible or to make good choices (including welfare mothers who could have picked a better husband blindfolded than the jerry springeresque peice of trash they had).
More bullshit. Get your facts straight before you try to pass yourself off as a human being. Until then you might try the Rush Libaugh show...
Get out there and work to change it. If you really tried, I guarantee that you could be enough of a pain in some
lawmaker's arse to get something changed for the better. If you aren't willing to work to change it or everybody else in
the country just flat out disagrees with you, the border is right over there. It IS a free country, and you are free to leave if
you really hate it.
You know what? Not a single one of your statements is true. Still. Decades after I first heard them mouthed by a pathetic fuck-up of a politician, they ring as false now as they did then.
Fuck you. I don't hate the country, I hate idiots like you make such assinine pronouncements like that to citizens who express concern that you (the politicians/military/cops... all the fucks that use that stupid line) are fucking up so badly.
You will be very happy under the 'new' regime come November...
He gets no pity from me. Dicks like this are diminishing the social impact of real police violations, such as the fellow who
was recently shot in NYC when he went for his wallet.
1) I didn't see anyone asking for pity (except maybe the mayor of Philly, in his press conference), and 2) if nothing else, the writer probably has a better understanding of the reality of cases like you mention than he did last week.
Again, activism has to start somewhere. Creeps who sit on their hands and criticize are nothing next to the most dumbass protester.
What the he actually do ? What are the issues he's fighting for ? He mentions the word "anti-poverty" one time and that's it. If he really felt strongly about anything, it should be mentioned in the article. Passionate that protest
*something*, at least would mention what it is they're protesting.
I think what they are protesting is understood, especially by the republicrats and their minion. Otherwise they wouldn't have worked so hard to make sure there was no protest, and to make sure that any that tried won't try again.
He participated in something bigger than himself. He made himself a part of a group who is trying to accomplish something no single individual can accomplish. You probably don't understand that. This is the same thing the republicrats in the convention were doing, but with a different agenda. Attempts to trivialize the protestors agenda leads to the attitude that the protestors are just self-agrandizing, but the fact is, the overall protest agenda is far less trivial than the republicrat (or demopublican) agendas. That's why the spin doctors have a job; the politicos have to trivialize the protestors, so people will laugh at them, and not take the protest seriously. That's a measure of how effective protests are known to be by the people who don't have anything to do but sit around and study how to control the population of a country...
It's whining when you join a protest because somebody is looking for people "willing to get arrested". When I've protested before, I was never willing to get arrested, but to show my point of view or complain about something I considered unjust.
And you figure to do that all on your own? Or maybe one of the political parties will help you out? Fat chance. And what if that something your consider 'unjust' is, say, the electoral process? Your definition of the individual protestor's statements as 'whining' assume that a) he doesn't believe in what he's doing, and/or b) that what he's doing is futile.
I thought his statement of how he joined the protest was nicely understated, but I guess it was a bit too subtle for a generation of conformists who believe they're individuals....
Sorry, there's is nothing to admire from this guy.
Heh. I respect your opinion, but it is uninformed. From your apparant POV, you should respect him for not doing anything overtly illeagal or violent. With an outfit as violent as the republicrats involved, the temptation to blow something up is almost overwhelming, to some of us... fighting fire with fire, you know?
From my POV I respect him for having a clearer vision of what needs to be done than people like you... although he still hasn't got it totally, at least he's trying. People like you are just reactionaries, cruising along taking potshots at anyone who is a bit off the line you're toeing.
"You're right, contempt is exactly what I feel for this court..."
If you want to be able to protest, then let the Republicans, Democrats and Vegetarians have conventions. Your statement about the purpose of the protest is so no city would want to host a Republican convention is just downright facist.
I disagree. In fact, I think your attempt to tell him to change his sig is far more fascist.
It's quite simple, I don't want republicrats convening in my town for the same reason I don't want child molestors or thieves living in my neighborhood. And believe me, once I have exhausted all legal means to remove them, I will take the law into my own hands to accomplish it.
The law is there to protect the citizens. Why do you consider the republicrats citizens, when they are engaged in the demonstrably treasonous activity of selling out the government of the country to the highest bidder?
Politicians are criminals and should be prosecuted; since they have placed themselves beyond the reach of law, vigilante justice should apply.
A little correction. You have the right to peacably assemble.
...except in Philadelphia during the 2000 republicrat convention.... The city made it quite clear from the beginning that the traditional right to assemble would not apply -- e.g. by fencing off parks, establishing no-protest zones anywhere a protest might be visible, etc, etc
The city revoked the constitution for the convention; the time when people might choose to exercise their rights.
It's appropriate, what Philadelphia did, I think. It's a little taste of how the whole country will be run under the republicrats...
But you're not worried, are you? It's just those stupid protesters; they deserved it; it can't happen to you... can it?
In view of his attitude, it sounded totally reasonable.
Attitude? We arrest people for their attitude, now?
He was, on purpose, acting in a fashion which was calculated to make him look as dangerous as possible
You get this from where? Shit, if they're going arrest people for 'looking dangerous in an environment where large groups of peoople are breaking laws', they should've cleaned out the convention hall with a paddy wagon. And congress, to while you're at it, and city all.
Getting arrested on purpose and then complaining about it is stupid.
Again, where do you get the 'complaining' part. Sounded like a pretty straigh-forward description to me. Certainly not enough of a complaint to justify all the assertions of 'whining' that I'm seeing here. You people sound like Micro$ofties -- 'Quit whining!' -- or was that Nike, I forget...
Guess how people like Nixon and Daley got elected in the first place. Yes that's right they got elected because of stupid hippies trying to encite riots
It's 'incite'. Nixon was elected because he promised to end the war in Vietnam. Why? Because of things like hippies and riots. You're the stupid one. At least the hippies were/are out there trying to do something. And in the case of Nixon, the riots worked, at least to some extent.
Sounds like you believe that voting still matters, and that 'anyonoe can get elected'. Now that's just plain stupid. Drone.
Look how can a man who really isn't in political office actually arrange beatings for anyone?
Same way Bill Gates does it; cash on the barrelhead. That's why Philly is sucking the republicrats collective asses; the GOP paid up front to keep the protestors -- who are every bit as much entitled to hold opinions a speak them as the republicrats -- out of the way.
Oh and just to clear things up did anyone watch the Newshour with Jim Lehrer? It was quite clear from the evidence that protesters were trying to beat the shit out of policemen.
Grow up. You still believe what you see on t.v.?
THat is fealony assult with intent to kill.
Or self-defense. You have to prove the intent part... cops aren't that hard to kill if you are really trying.
Most of these guys didn't give a rats ass
How the fuck would you know?
Want to blame someone
Already covered that part. Plus I'll blame you since you're such an idiot you seem to support the current despotic regime...
would be shouted down by liberal
Democrats as a hate-mongering, spiteful, example of exactly why Republicans should be rounded up, sterilized, and run out of town on a rail
I guess you realize that the main reason most of the protesters still in jail need to get out is because they are planning to do the same thing at the demopublican convention that they have done at the republicrat convention.... or you as uninformed as you sound.
Then there's the fact that the republicrats did exactly as you postulate the demopublicans would do, except that first they closed down all public forums for dissenting speech, identified any potential public speakers and arrested them first, and took measures to ensure that the mainstream media wouldn't encounter any significant non-pro-republicrat events...
Wake up, Bush lifted his entire plaform from the one Clinton got elected on, and now Gore is going to take a page from Newt Gingrich. They're all part of the same gang, just trying to making it look good...
I am really amazed by the number of posters who seem openly hostile to both the article and the action that it describes. You people are pathetic.
This guy went out and actually did something that addressed issues that are important to him. That simple fact by itself should be applauded. Furthermore, the tone tone of the article is not 'whining' or 'complaining' as so many posters accuse. In fact, I thought it was quite equitable.
I am amazed by the apparent rise in 'law-and-order' sentiment on/., evidently it goes along with the rise in pro-M$ sentiment we saw, say, a month or so ago.
And what the hell is 'dressing confrontationally'? I think the way the goddamned convention delegates dress is confrontational, and their actions treasonous. Why aren't the police jailing them? Many of them were publicly drunk and disorderly. Some of them were drinking and driving?
Obviously, these are rhetorical questions. The reason the cops harassed the demonstrators is that the Philadelphia City govt politicos laid down and spread their legs for the big-money republicrats like the corporate whores that they are...
... persecution for having an opinion that didn't match his own. Be careful, Taco. Seems they wanted to charge the owner of the site for the priviledge of exercising his right to free speech, seeing as how it was non-right-wing, non-demipublicrat political speech, and all....
I'm only gonna say this once:
The election is over. America is over. Vote with your trigger finger, now, while you still can.
They built a 7-foot chain link fence around the soap box last week... to keep you out; they're trying to confiscate the ammo box; what the hell makes you think they respect the ballot box?
Where is Lee Harvey Oswald when you really need him?
Slashdot Mirror
Geez, I really didn't need to know that... You know what rhetorical means, right? Or are you still trying to establish credentials?
I don't know what anti-abortionists you know, but the ones I ever met were definitely in favor of killing those who performed abortions. They just couldn't admit it or act on it without fear of prosecution.
Last I heard they were using pipe bombs, not guns, so your assertion about 'there would be more shootings' is invalidated on 2 counts.
Yess, police are in a tough situation, and I sympathize, but that doesn't make the guy wrong for doing what he did. If were screaming 'filty pigs oppressed me' it would be different, but he's not.
I disagree. Vehemently. Your remark is gratuitous, and displays a deeply ingrained apathy. I appreciate the trouble he went to to write the article and the thought he has and will put into what happened to him. It will make him a better citizen. Too bad you can't learn from it, but then, that's not his fault, is it.So you're not from the deep south, I take it.
In the final analysis, it won't matter so much what specific cause each the people in the streets were supporting, what will matter is that they were there, and they were protesting against a regime that is not doing right by the american people.
It is a clear-cut case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', imo. Decades from now we may recall that 'Philadephia 2000 was one of the early actions, where some 5000 people showed up, and a few less than a 10th of them were imprisoned in a prison built (refurbished) for the purpose by the city of Philadelphia with funding provided by the backers of the Republican Party....
I mean, who really cares that it was tea that got thrown in the harbour at Boston? It could just have easily been .... whatever. The only salient point is that it was something that people cared about that was being used as a tool of oppression against them...
I think what you mean is not "if [he] was serious", but "if he expects [you] to take him seriously". Two quite different propositions.
I could be wrong, of course...
Cops are humans, too.
Kind hard to believe you have access to the internet and can't get even the most basic information about political dissent in the US, but I guess that's part of the reason for the protests...
Furthermore, who the hell are you to say he failed? By your own admission, you don't know what he was trying to accomplish, so you certainly are in no position to judge his success or failure...
You mean kinda like the US, or any other country at some point in history, for that matter.... Debatable, based on your demonstrated lack of comprehension of this situation... You may have 'lived it', but you clearly don't understand it. So your criticism is just sour grapes? Have I? I'll let you sort that one out for yourself as though it matters a damn to you. You don't want to go there... No, you were just picking at somebody who tried to become part of something because he thought it might cause some things to happen. You're just telling him "don't bother", and now you're claiming additionally "I've already tried that and it doesn't do any good."People like you are people who make the world safe for republicrats and demopublicans. And since you don't seem to understand what I mean by that, you probably don't even want to be having this discussion.
Fuck you. I don't hate the country, I hate idiots like you make such assinine pronouncements like that to citizens who express concern that you (the politicians/military/cops ... all the fucks that use that stupid line) are fucking up so badly.
You will be very happy under the 'new' regime come November...
Again, activism has to start somewhere. Creeps who sit on their hands and criticize are nothing next to the most dumbass protester.
He participated in something bigger than himself. He made himself a part of a group who is trying to accomplish something no single individual can accomplish. You probably don't understand that. This is the same thing the republicrats in the convention were doing, but with a different agenda. Attempts to trivialize the protestors agenda leads to the attitude that the protestors are just self-agrandizing, but the fact is, the overall protest agenda is far less trivial than the republicrat (or demopublican) agendas. That's why the spin doctors have a job; the politicos have to trivialize the protestors, so people will laugh at them, and not take the protest seriously. That's a measure of how effective protests are known to be by the people who don't have anything to do but sit around and study how to control the population of a country...
And you figure to do that all on your own? Or maybe one of the political parties will help you out? Fat chance. And what if that something your consider 'unjust' is, say, the electoral process? Your definition of the individual protestor's statements as 'whining' assume that a) he doesn't believe in what he's doing, and/or b) that what he's doing is futile.I thought his statement of how he joined the protest was nicely understated, but I guess it was a bit too subtle for a generation of conformists who believe they're individuals....
Heh. I respect your opinion, but it is uninformed. From your apparant POV, you should respect him for not doing anything overtly illeagal or violent. With an outfit as violent as the republicrats involved, the temptation to blow something up is almost overwhelming, to some of us... fighting fire with fire, you know?From my POV I respect him for having a clearer vision of what needs to be done than people like you... although he still hasn't got it totally, at least he's trying. People like you are just reactionaries, cruising along taking potshots at anyone who is a bit off the line you're toeing.
"You're right, contempt is exactly what I feel for this court..."
It's quite simple, I don't want republicrats convening in my town for the same reason I don't want child molestors or thieves living in my neighborhood. And believe me, once I have exhausted all legal means to remove them, I will take the law into my own hands to accomplish it.
The law is there to protect the citizens. Why do you consider the republicrats citizens, when they are engaged in the demonstrably treasonous activity of selling out the government of the country to the highest bidder?
Politicians are criminals and should be prosecuted; since they have placed themselves beyond the reach of law, vigilante justice should apply.
The city revoked the constitution for the convention; the time when people might choose to exercise their rights. It's appropriate, what Philadelphia did, I think. It's a little taste of how the whole country will be run under the republicrats...
But you're not worried, are you? It's just those stupid protesters; they deserved it; it can't happen to you... can it?
Sounds like you believe that voting still matters, and that 'anyonoe can get elected'. Now that's just plain stupid. Drone.
you stupid fuck
Then there's the fact that the republicrats did exactly as you postulate the demopublicans would do, except that first they closed down all public forums for dissenting speech, identified any potential public speakers and arrested them first, and took measures to ensure that the mainstream media wouldn't encounter any significant non-pro-republicrat events...
Wake up, Bush lifted his entire plaform from the one Clinton got elected on, and now Gore is going to take a page from Newt Gingrich. They're all part of the same gang, just trying to making it look good...
This guy went out and actually did something that addressed issues that are important to him. That simple fact by itself should be applauded. Furthermore, the tone tone of the article is not 'whining' or 'complaining' as so many posters accuse. In fact, I thought it was quite equitable.
I am amazed by the apparent rise in 'law-and-order' sentiment on /., evidently it goes along with the rise in pro-M$ sentiment we saw, say, a month or so ago.
And what the hell is 'dressing confrontationally'? I think the way the goddamned convention delegates dress is confrontational, and their actions treasonous. Why aren't the police jailing them? Many of them were publicly drunk and disorderly. Some of them were drinking and driving?
Obviously, these are rhetorical questions. The reason the cops harassed the demonstrators is that the Philadelphia City govt politicos laid down and spread their legs for the big-money republicrats like the corporate whores that they are...
Anybody remember M.O.V.E?
I'm only gonna say this once:
They built a 7-foot chain link fence around the soap box last weekWhere is Lee Harvey Oswald when you really need him?