Re:What about the BSA (Wandering quite OT)
on
Geek Charities?
·
· Score: 2
You would find it harder to find a rational argument for respect of god.
That is why I do not try. Nevertheless, there are more learned people than I who have addressed this very question. Whether you believe in God or not, you may find C.S. Lewis's 'Mere Christianity' to be a good read. The first section deals with this topic. Whether you agree with his views or not is up to you, of course, but even if you don't, you may find it insightful and thought-provoking. It never hurts to know more about what you're disagreeing with.
Your argument that tolerance should be all encompassing, even to criminals, is unsupported.
My argument is, in fact, that tolerance should -not- be all encompassing, especially with regard to criminals. And most especially with regard to criminals who commit crimes of inhuman cruelty. If you commit a crime, it is only right that you pay for it.
Nevertheless, I can remain courteous and polite to a murderer any time I wish, not insulting him (and if he's the one with the gun, it may be quite wise.) Even if I'm calling the cops on him, I shall treat him as a fellow human being. I can put on a friendly face to a person even if I find them utterly disgusting. And even the worst of situations can be made tolerable, if not actually better, by a bit of stubborn refusal to be uncheerful. But any point added to the Scout Law would have to be all-encompassing. I may be too human to follow the Law every single moment, but it should be a worthy thing to try.
As for adding a New Point to the Scout Law... well, how's about visiting old Merriam-Webster again...
tolerant Function: adjective 1 : inclined to tolerate; especially : marked by forbearance or endurance 2 : exhibiting tolerance (as for a drug or an environmental factor)
I assume the first meaning is the one that's important to you (although as anyone who's been on those cold camping trips can tell you, the second can be a nice bonus!). The problem is, there are some situations when a Scout should not merely endure. A Scout is Brave. Brave to stand up for the needs of the minority when it is unpopular to do so, Brave enough to speak the truth when it would be easy not to, Brave enough to give his life to save another if need be.
Tolerance is a noble trait in many situations, but it cannot be all-encompassing. The Scout Law names qualities that are all-encompassing and worth aspiring to, whether we are able to actually achieve those aspirations every second of every day or not.
So he designed something that he didn't think would have much Real Life application. Welcome to math. Boole thought he was designing the most 'pure' math possible, something which would have no conceivable use whatsoever... and now Boolean Logic is the basis for most of the world's digital computing devices.
As for the Chinese bit... well, according to the latest census forms, your 'race' depends not on your ancestry, but on which 'culture' you claim. You could very well be Chinese, as far as the government's concerned, if you think you are....
We had blessings for meals and the like in my troop, but it was all very non-denominational, and applicable to any religion.
I remember an anecdote I recently heard. Perhaps I can liven up this intense topic and give a few folks a nice chuckle.
The Scouts and Leaders in my troop were having their yearly weekend planning retreat. (This was after I had gone off to college). At the time, the troop had a young lad serving as Chaplain's Aide. He was asked to think up a blessing before the evening meal, but he was quietly cautioned to make it 'generic', as one family in the troop is Jewish. Meaning, of course, that it would be rude to refer to Jesus, or Mary, or the Trinity, or any other Strictly Christian beliefs.
Well, this kid thought long and hard about it. And when the evening meal came, he was called upon to give this blessing he had been contemplating.
He began with, "To whom it may concern...."
The adult Leaders did manage to keep straight faces, thank goodness.
---
Re:What about the BSA (Wandering quite OT)
on
Geek Charities?
·
· Score: 2
They should replace the word 'reverent' with the word 'tolerant.'
Actually, I do believe 'tolerance', as the term is most often used, is already covered by the Scout Law. A Scout is Friendly, Courteous, and Cheerful. No qualification given about to whom one should be Friendly, Courteous, and Cheerful. The Scout Law applies when dealing with anyone under the sun.
The problem with adding 'tolerant' to the Scout Law is that the Scout would have to be tolerant of everything, with no limit, to truly follow the Law... and there are many things which should not be tolerated. Murder. Rape. Abuse. You get the idea.
Reverence, however, is, I think, a worthy quality, even for an atheist. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reverence is 'honor or respect felt or shown', no mention of religion despite the common social implication, and respect goes hand-in-hand with tolerance.
I'm tempted to get into a rational argument for respect for 'God and country' as presented by the Boy Scouts, but the closest I've ever gotten to theological study is reading books by better writers than I. Therefore, I must refrain. I will note, however: If parents don't wish to bring their kids up with a belief in duty to God and country, there are other organizations. It is the parent's choice. The difference between a code of ethics and a rule of law is that one -chooses- the code of ethics, by one's behavior and by the organizations, professional or otherwise, that one joins. ---
Oooh, good idea. I've often thought that the most qualified leaders are smart enough not to want the job.
I'm reminded of a story I once heard about, I think by Clarke. After many serious changes in government and advances in technology, Democracy went the way of the dinosaur. The President was chosen by a big computer, which would choose the most qualified person in the country for the job.
Any person actually wanting to be President would be immediately disqualified. And the only way the chosen person would be able to get out of being President would be to do a good job at it. Hence, you end up with a bunch of highly-qualified folks doing a good job at being President just so they don't have to be President any more.
I was a boy scout when I was younger, and found it to be a very rewarding experience.
Glad to hear it. I'm an Eagle Scout myself. And still proud of it.
That said: Around the time of the Supreme Court Ruling (which I support), I heard a rather interesting point made. Not all exclusion is by definition the result of bigotry. The American Red Cross will not accept blood donations from any male who has had intercourse with another male since the 70's. And this discrimination is not frowned upon by any Gay Activist Organization, for one simple reason: It is a precautionary discrimination. The same discrimination is made against people who have visited certain countries, or who have eaten British Beef. It's to prevent the spread of disease by donation.
Now, from the Boy Scouting perspective: Most of these kids are young and confused. I fully feel that there should be at least one place in any teenager's life where the topic of sexuality is -not- thrown in one's face. And for kids at the Cub Scout level, sexuality shouldn't even be an issue at all. Scout leaders are supposed to be helping these kids feel more confident in themselves and less confused... It's easier if the door is simply closed on this type of question. Let them consider sexuality when they go off to college. I strongly feel High School is Too Young. Call me old-fashioned.
And there is also a 'safety' issue to deal with. Let me be clear: I do have friends who consider themselves homosexual, and they are good people. But there are also bad apples, both homosexual and heterosexual. There are dangerous people in the world who have a taste for Young Children. Not every gay guy would spread AIDS by giving blood, and not every gay Scout Leader would be so inhuman as to prey on Young Boys... but it's the Boy Scout preference to Be Prepared earlier, rather than deal with the mess after it happens. Better to be too exclusive, when young children are involved, than not exclusive enough. And it's difficult to be exclusive to just the right degree in an organization staffed by volunteers. You can't exactly ask, on the application form, 'Would you molest a young kid'. The BSA does not want to hear 'you knew this Leader was gay, you could have prevented my son's molestation'.
If I be modded down for my un-PC views on this, so be it. I've posted honestly. I congratulate you on sticking to your guns on an issue you feel about.
Well, let me preface this by saying that I hate most humans.
I feel for you, man. Check out my.sig. There are good folks out there, but it's the bad apples that ruin the bunch.
I really don't care about helping the homeless in the U.S., because most of these jokers are too lazy to go get a job.
Hear hear. Our welfare system is a horrid mess that allows lazy bums to make a living by being lazy bums. Now there are good, honest folk out there who are simply down on their luck, but they're horridly outnumbered by other guys who simply want a buck without earning it. I live in a Big City with plenty of them, and have seen no shortage of folks on the street with signs. One which comes to memory: 'I won't lie, I need a beer.'
Also, I don't like to give to big organizations like the United Way.
It really is tough to know where your money is going with these big organizations. Almost as bad as the government's welfare. I like donating canned foods and Toys for Tots, because it's Really, Really Hard to 'skim' from donations like these. And, when I do give money, I give it to groups I trust will make good use of it. Local groups especially.
If you come to my door when I am eating supper, invite yourself in my apartment, then tell me I have to donate so you can win a prize of getting the most donations, I will refuse to give a single red cent.
Ugh. I don't blame you. If some guy comes knocking at my door at a reasonable hour collecting canned goods, well, I've always got an extra can of soup somewhere. Pushiness is just rude, though. You shouldn't have to 'sell' charity.
I would say mostly people donate out of stupidity, ignorance, tax cuts, and guilt.
Cynical, but unfortunately, too close to truth. You're right: A little bit of research does go a long way. As does a bit of Effort in place of Money. There are three resources one can draw upon in giving: Time, Talent, and Treasure. All too often, the first two are neglected.
A few other 'good things to do' which cost nothing: It takes less than an hour to donate blood when the Red Cross comes around, only two hours to donate platelets, and either donation will save lives within 48 hours, with nothing out of the wallet, plus you get a free physical checkup out of the deal, and cookies. Building Homes for Humanity or some similar project one Saturday every now and again is good for the muscles (especially important for us Geeks sitting around all day).
Finally, by helping out your local Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts/Other Youth-Helping Organization/School Program, you may be helping to slightly raise the number of non-idiots in the world. Pick one with views you can agree with, there are plenty to choose from. Interesting Fact: Lord Baden-Powell considered an extra point to the Scout Law, 'A Scout Is Not A Fool', but thought it redundant. ---
Not just a burden on the 'small guys', but also on major developers.
I remember a long wait for Win2000 SoundBlaster Live! drivers... not because further development was necessary, but because Creative had, for the first time, bothered to submit their drivers to Microsoft for a thorough inspection and 'certification', so that a certain warning wouldn't pop up during the install.
And while Creative was waiting for the MS guys to send the drivers back with a 'stamp of approval', the PR guys had no way to answer the 'when will we have working drivers' question other than 'any day now'. Definitely not what any customer wants to hear. ---
An unfortunate truth: Even in the best of news media, sensationalism always wins out over objective, balanced, and reasonable reporting. Clue to MSNBC and other news networks: 'Too close to call' ain't exactly 'breaking news' any more!
I don't know about white noise generators myself, never used one. White noise is nothing really but random static in which all sound frequencies are equally present. You could get the same effect by listening to a seashell, a blank tape. If I want to ignore noise or drown out the office air conditioning, I'd rather listen to something with a beat. Like the other posters said, maybe some easy listening or jazz. ---
Sure it's bulky but try getting your Palm V to heat last night's special fried rice in under three minutes.
I've read about some overclocked x86s that could do this... Get it into a Palm with wireless internet and GPS, and you'd have a great camping tool! ---
I'd suggest an Obsfucated English Contest, with extra points for correct grammar... but the more I read, the more I become quite certain that English is Infinitely Obsfucatable. ---
We have just learned that our earlier projection of Irididium going to 'crash and burn' may have been premature. Latest reports indicate that 'salvation' may indeed be holding a slight lead. Therefore, we at Slashdot News Network are moving Iridium back into the 'too close to call' category. Once again, Iridium is 'too close to call'. ---
I seem to recall seeing on TV somewhere that this is used by some quadriplegic folks with some head mobility who don't like the sucking/blowing straw interface....
"Some people claim that voting over the internet would prevent the kind of confusion we have had in this election.
Oh, yeah, that's great. These old folks who can't even work a punch machine are just gonna love the internet. Hey, my grandfather can't even program a VCR."
Slashdot Mirror
You would find it harder to find a rational argument for respect of god.
That is why I do not try. Nevertheless, there are more learned people than I who have addressed this very question. Whether you believe in God or not, you may find C.S. Lewis's 'Mere Christianity' to be a good read. The first section deals with this topic. Whether you agree with his views or not is up to you, of course, but even if you don't, you may find it insightful and thought-provoking. It never hurts to know more about what you're disagreeing with.
Your argument that tolerance should be all encompassing, even to criminals, is unsupported.
My argument is, in fact, that tolerance should -not- be all encompassing, especially with regard to criminals. And most especially with regard to criminals who commit crimes of inhuman cruelty. If you commit a crime, it is only right that you pay for it.
Nevertheless, I can remain courteous and polite to a murderer any time I wish, not insulting him (and if he's the one with the gun, it may be quite wise.) Even if I'm calling the cops on him, I shall treat him as a fellow human being. I can put on a friendly face to a person even if I find them utterly disgusting. And even the worst of situations can be made tolerable, if not actually better, by a bit of stubborn refusal to be uncheerful. But any point added to the Scout Law would have to be all-encompassing. I may be too human to follow the Law every single moment, but it should be a worthy thing to try.
As for adding a New Point to the Scout Law... well, how's about visiting old Merriam-Webster again...
tolerant
Function: adjective
1 : inclined to tolerate; especially : marked by forbearance or endurance
2 : exhibiting tolerance (as for a drug or an environmental factor)
I assume the first meaning is the one that's important to you (although as anyone who's been on those cold camping trips can tell you, the second can be a nice bonus!). The problem is, there are some situations when a Scout should not merely endure. A Scout is Brave. Brave to stand up for the needs of the minority when it is unpopular to do so, Brave enough to speak the truth when it would be easy not to, Brave enough to give his life to save another if need be.
Tolerance is a noble trait in many situations, but it cannot be all-encompassing. The Scout Law names qualities that are all-encompassing and worth aspiring to, whether we are able to actually achieve those aspirations every second of every day or not.
---
I want my...
I want my...
I want my MP3.
---
So he designed something that he didn't think would have much Real Life application. Welcome to math. Boole thought he was designing the most 'pure' math possible, something which would have no conceivable use whatsoever... and now Boolean Logic is the basis for most of the world's digital computing devices.
As for the Chinese bit... well, according to the latest census forms, your 'race' depends not on your ancestry, but on which 'culture' you claim. You could very well be Chinese, as far as the government's concerned, if you think you are....
---
With my ISP? I might not even notice for a few days. Dang, I gotta get DSL.
---
We had blessings for meals and the like in my troop, but it was all very non-denominational, and applicable to any religion.
I remember an anecdote I recently heard. Perhaps I can liven up this intense topic and give a few folks a nice chuckle.
The Scouts and Leaders in my troop were having their yearly weekend planning retreat. (This was after I had gone off to college). At the time, the troop had a young lad serving as Chaplain's Aide. He was asked to think up a blessing before the evening meal, but he was quietly cautioned to make it 'generic', as one family in the troop is Jewish. Meaning, of course, that it would be rude to refer to Jesus, or Mary, or the Trinity, or any other Strictly Christian beliefs.
Well, this kid thought long and hard about it. And when the evening meal came, he was called upon to give this blessing he had been contemplating.
He began with, "To whom it may concern...."
The adult Leaders did manage to keep straight faces, thank goodness.
---
They should replace the word 'reverent' with the word 'tolerant.'
Actually, I do believe 'tolerance', as the term is most often used, is already covered by the Scout Law. A Scout is Friendly, Courteous, and Cheerful. No qualification given about to whom one should be Friendly, Courteous, and Cheerful. The Scout Law applies when dealing with anyone under the sun.
The problem with adding 'tolerant' to the Scout Law is that the Scout would have to be tolerant of everything, with no limit, to truly follow the Law... and there are many things which should not be tolerated. Murder. Rape. Abuse. You get the idea.
Reverence, however, is, I think, a worthy quality, even for an atheist. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reverence is 'honor or respect felt or shown', no mention of religion despite the common social implication, and respect goes hand-in-hand with tolerance.
I'm tempted to get into a rational argument for respect for 'God and country' as presented by the Boy Scouts, but the closest I've ever gotten to theological study is reading books by better writers than I. Therefore, I must refrain. I will note, however: If parents don't wish to bring their kids up with a belief in duty to God and country, there are other organizations. It is the parent's choice. The difference between a code of ethics and a rule of law is that one -chooses- the code of ethics, by one's behavior and by the organizations, professional or otherwise, that one joins.
---
Oooh, good idea. I've often thought that the most qualified leaders are smart enough not to want the job.
I'm reminded of a story I once heard about, I think by Clarke. After many serious changes in government and advances in technology, Democracy went the way of the dinosaur. The President was chosen by a big computer, which would choose the most qualified person in the country for the job.
Any person actually wanting to be President would be immediately disqualified. And the only way the chosen person would be able to get out of being President would be to do a good job at it. Hence, you end up with a bunch of highly-qualified folks doing a good job at being President just so they don't have to be President any more.
---
I'd suggest Linus - The Christmas Ornament, but Hallmark already has a few I'll wager, in its Peanuts collection...
---
I was a boy scout when I was younger, and found it to be a very rewarding experience.
Glad to hear it. I'm an Eagle Scout myself. And still proud of it.
That said: Around the time of the Supreme Court Ruling (which I support), I heard a rather interesting point made. Not all exclusion is by definition the result of bigotry. The American Red Cross will not accept blood donations from any male who has had intercourse with another male since the 70's. And this discrimination is not frowned upon by any Gay Activist Organization, for one simple reason: It is a precautionary discrimination. The same discrimination is made against people who have visited certain countries, or who have eaten British Beef. It's to prevent the spread of disease by donation.
Now, from the Boy Scouting perspective: Most of these kids are young and confused. I fully feel that there should be at least one place in any teenager's life where the topic of sexuality is -not- thrown in one's face. And for kids at the Cub Scout level, sexuality shouldn't even be an issue at all. Scout leaders are supposed to be helping these kids feel more confident in themselves and less confused... It's easier if the door is simply closed on this type of question. Let them consider sexuality when they go off to college. I strongly feel High School is Too Young. Call me old-fashioned.
And there is also a 'safety' issue to deal with. Let me be clear: I do have friends who consider themselves homosexual, and they are good people. But there are also bad apples, both homosexual and heterosexual. There are dangerous people in the world who have a taste for Young Children. Not every gay guy would spread AIDS by giving blood, and not every gay Scout Leader would be so inhuman as to prey on Young Boys... but it's the Boy Scout preference to Be Prepared earlier, rather than deal with the mess after it happens. Better to be too exclusive, when young children are involved, than not exclusive enough. And it's difficult to be exclusive to just the right degree in an organization staffed by volunteers. You can't exactly ask, on the application form, 'Would you molest a young kid'. The BSA does not want to hear 'you knew this Leader was gay, you could have prevented my son's molestation'.
If I be modded down for my un-PC views on this, so be it. I've posted honestly. I congratulate you on sticking to your guns on an issue you feel about.
---
Well, let me preface this by saying that I hate most humans.
.sig. There are good folks out there, but it's the bad apples that ruin the bunch.
I feel for you, man. Check out my
I really don't care about helping the homeless in the U.S., because most of these jokers are too lazy to go get a job.
Hear hear. Our welfare system is a horrid mess that allows lazy bums to make a living by being lazy bums. Now there are good, honest folk out there who are simply down on their luck, but they're horridly outnumbered by other guys who simply want a buck without earning it. I live in a Big City with plenty of them, and have seen no shortage of folks on the street with signs. One which comes to memory: 'I won't lie, I need a beer.'
Also, I don't like to give to big organizations like the United Way.
It really is tough to know where your money is going with these big organizations. Almost as bad as the government's welfare. I like donating canned foods and Toys for Tots, because it's Really, Really Hard to 'skim' from donations like these. And, when I do give money, I give it to groups I trust will make good use of it. Local groups especially.
If you come to my door when I am eating supper, invite yourself in my apartment, then tell me I have to donate so you can win a prize of getting the most donations, I will refuse to give a single red cent.
Ugh. I don't blame you. If some guy comes knocking at my door at a reasonable hour collecting canned goods, well, I've always got an extra can of soup somewhere. Pushiness is just rude, though. You shouldn't have to 'sell' charity.
I would say mostly people donate out of stupidity, ignorance, tax cuts, and guilt.
Cynical, but unfortunately, too close to truth. You're right: A little bit of research does go a long way. As does a bit of Effort in place of Money. There are three resources one can draw upon in giving: Time, Talent, and Treasure. All too often, the first two are neglected.
A few other 'good things to do' which cost nothing: It takes less than an hour to donate blood when the Red Cross comes around, only two hours to donate platelets, and either donation will save lives within 48 hours, with nothing out of the wallet, plus you get a free physical checkup out of the deal, and cookies. Building Homes for Humanity or some similar project one Saturday every now and again is good for the muscles (especially important for us Geeks sitting around all day).
Finally, by helping out your local Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts/Other Youth-Helping Organization/School Program, you may be helping to slightly raise the number of non-idiots in the world. Pick one with views you can agree with, there are plenty to choose from. Interesting Fact: Lord Baden-Powell considered an extra point to the Scout Law, 'A Scout Is Not A Fool', but thought it redundant.
---
Ah hah!
Patent 58. A plot device whereby the protagonist(s) is/are rescued from impending doom by unforseeable circumstances.
I have patented the Deus Ex Machina! MPAA, you are MINE! MUAHAHAHA!!!!
---
Not just a burden on the 'small guys', but also on major developers.
I remember a long wait for Win2000 SoundBlaster Live! drivers... not because further development was necessary, but because Creative had, for the first time, bothered to submit their drivers to Microsoft for a thorough inspection and 'certification', so that a certain warning wouldn't pop up during the install.
And while Creative was waiting for the MS guys to send the drivers back with a 'stamp of approval', the PR guys had no way to answer the 'when will we have working drivers' question other than 'any day now'. Definitely not what any customer wants to hear.
---
from the turn-on-red-alerts dept.
Says it all, doesn't it?
An unfortunate truth: Even in the best of news media, sensationalism always wins out over objective, balanced, and reasonable reporting. Clue to MSNBC and other news networks: 'Too close to call' ain't exactly 'breaking news' any more!
---
Al Gore's looking more and more human every day.
(Joke blatantly 'borrowed' from last night's Tonight Show.)
---
I don't know about white noise generators myself, never used one. White noise is nothing really but random static in which all sound frequencies are equally present. You could get the same effect by listening to a seashell, a blank tape. If I want to ignore noise or drown out the office air conditioning, I'd rather listen to something with a beat. Like the other posters said, maybe some easy listening or jazz.
---
Sure it's bulky but try getting your Palm V to heat last night's special fried rice in under three minutes.
I've read about some overclocked x86s that could do this... Get it into a Palm with wireless internet and GPS, and you'd have a great camping tool!
---
What is your favorite color... Lego?
Green... no, wait, Blue! AHHHH!
---
I'd suggest an Obsfucated English Contest, with extra points for correct grammar... but the more I read, the more I become quite certain that English is Infinitely Obsfucatable.
---
Maybe they can apply a bit of theoretical quantum physics... That way, they can crash it -and- keep it up. At least until anyone looks at it.
Schroedinger's Satellite, anyone?
---
We have just learned that our earlier projection of Irididium going to 'crash and burn' may have been premature. Latest reports indicate that 'salvation' may indeed be holding a slight lead. Therefore, we at Slashdot News Network are moving Iridium back into the 'too close to call' category. Once again, Iridium is 'too close to call'.
---
And they say the punch cards in Florida are hard to read!
Molecular punchcards... So, when do we see a molecular mainframe?
---
I seem to recall seeing on TV somewhere that this is used by some quadriplegic folks with some head mobility who don't like the sucking/blowing straw interface....
---
...Sega will be producing a new version of 'Space Channel 5' for headbanging Heavy Metal fans.
---
Talk about Life imitating Humor...
I chuckled at this post, then went to look at my Segfault Slashbox. The newest item: Answering Machine Subjected to DDoS Attacks.
---
on Saturday Night Live (paraphrased from memory):
"Some people claim that voting over the internet would prevent the kind of confusion we have had in this election.
Oh, yeah, that's great. These old folks who can't even work a punch machine are just gonna love the internet. Hey, my grandfather can't even program a VCR."
---