No, they aren't slaves in the chained down sense, but they are 'forced' in the sense walmart has illegally lowered prices below cost when they go into new areas till every other business goes out of business then raises prices back to a profit level. So if people want to work at all to, say, earn money for college, they have very few choices. and not everyone has the means to move. They have been a large part of the reduction in living wages for entry lvl employees
here are some other snips: The 2004 report by U.S. Representative George Miller alleged that in ten percent of Wal-Mart's stores, nighttime employees were locked inside, holding them prisoner. There has been some concern that Wal-Mart's policy of locking its nighttime employees in the building has been implicated in a longer response time to dealing with various employee emergencies, or weather conditions such as hurricanes in Florida.[Wal-Mart said this policy was to protect the workers and the store's contents, in high-crime areas and acknowledges that some employees were inconvenienced in some instances for up to an hour as they had trouble locating a manager with the key.
Wal-Mart has also faced accusations involving poor working conditions of its employees. For example, a 2005 class action lawsuit in Missouri asserted approximately 160,000 to 200,000 people who were forced to work off-the-clock, were denied overtime pay, or were not allowed to take rest and lunch breaks
"Wal-Mart has also been accused of ethical problems. It is said that the Wal-Mart employees are gender discriminated when trying to be hired and treated in the work area. In Duke vs. Wal-Mart inc., which was a discrimination case on behalf of more than 1.5 million current and former female employees of Wal-Mart’s 3,400 stores across the United States. (9th circuit 2007) Dr. William Bliebly who evaluated Wal-Mart’s employment policies "against what social science research shows to be factors that create and sustain bias and those that minimize bias” (Bliebly) and he finished by saying, the men and women not being created equal in the workforce is what Wal-Mart is doing and what they should essentially not be doing."
yeah, no. In a good union, people still get fired all the time for laziness. It's not a protection vs firing, it's a protection vs unfair firing. And as you pointed out, you still still have other incentives to work hard; getting promoted. Furthermore, Unions don't outlaw bonuses or commission or other ways to get rewarded for hard work either. I think your knowledge of unions comes 4th hand from 70s news sources and factory floors.
If the Law works so well, why didn't it work to stop jack booted union thugs? Or maybe having the law isn't enough, and it helps to have a GOOD union to support you.
GM went broke because they made shitty cars and did not adapt to the changing market in the 70s (or the 90s). GOD DAM PLEASE STOP BELIEVING THEIR FUD that was used to get multiple government bailouts (I.E. you didn't buy our shitty cars so we are going to take your money anyways). FUD FUD FUD.
(bawww we can't compete because Toyota can make cars cheaper.
NO NO, that is wrong! You can't compete because you can't make cars as GOOD as Toyota. And you had a fucking natural advantage because it's fucking expensive to ship cars overseas Vs say a crate of TVs. This was before Toyoda had stateside factories. But still spend all your management effort on lobbying congress for traiffs, or for more tax breaks, or for a bail out. instead of better cars. I'm still fucking pissed your shittasic management of the last (at least) 40 years retired with more money then your great-great-grand children will be able spend. Detroit has run a very successful FUD campaign vs their unions, and I actually think they drink their own kool-aid. It helps that their unions do actually suck and are too powerful, so it's a easy target, but the unions were NOT IN ANY WAY the reason for your 40 year collapse.
Which should have happened a lot fucking faster if the government hadn't protected you GM. So funny how with unions it';s all "let the free market work" But with tariffs and tax breaks and bailouts you are ALL ABOUT the government intervention. What's good(or bad) for the goose is good for the gander. Fuck GM and them bleeding the free market dry.
you really think the free market will work this out when companies often have, not using hyperbole, millions of liquid dollars for lawyers and millions more to write laws in their favor that are written by the companies then handed to their employees; the state/federal congressmembers? Now that the court ruled there can be no limits on company campaign donations, the company are the only ones they have to please because the give 10,000times more money then individual voters can. The cabal of this country is almost complete. Unions are next on the chopping block. The politicians love to say voters are not dumb, which voters love to believe (because they are dumb).
except it's so hard to actually enforce the labor laws. You have to hire a lawyer you can't afford and are forced into arbitration and arbitration companies over 90% of the time rule in favor of the company that hires them, in this case the employer. The employer might deal with thousands of cases with the arbitration company a year, guess who the arbitration company in a free market knowing the employer has the choice to switch arbitrators is going to side with if they want more business? Or you can try to file with your states labor dept, if your lucky enough to be in a state with a working one (read: the states that get blasted in the media for being 'bad for businesses'), and deal with dmv employee like stubbornness and confusing process and years of delay while you look for a new job or work under illegal conditions. Having a union rep is the evident to being able to say 'talk to my lawyer' for the rest of us. Yeah, a few percent really abuse it and make managers hate unions but that is not the majority of union workers. The free market is stacked against workers in the united corporations of America.
Unions promote laziness.
That is a negative stereotype that I have never seen in my first hand experience with unions.
If this guy gets fired from or quits at Apple, it won't be easy for him to be hired by a different company
If he is in contact with another retail union that is supporting him (he should be) they will take care of him
except it's so hard to actually enforce the labor laws. You have to hire a lawyer you can't afford and are forced into arbitration and arbitration companies over 90% of the time rule in favor of the company that hires them, in this case the employer. The employer might deal with thousands of cases with the arbitration company a year, guess who the arbitration company in a free market knowing the employer has the choice to switch arbitrators is going to side with if they want more business? Or you can try to file with your states labor dept, if your lucky enough to be in a state with a working one (read: the states that get blasted in the media for being 'bad for businesses'), and deal with dmv employee like stubbornness and confusing process and years of delay while you look for a new job or work under illegal conditions. Having a union rep is the evident to being able to say 'talk to my lawyer' for the rest of us. Yeah, a few percent really abuse it and make managers hate unions but that is not the majority of union workers
Most unions do not become abusive. Stop using Detroit as your baseline. As actor unions have shown, there is still plenty of money for everyone. Or try I.A.T.S.E. that includes themepark works and such. It's more then just a raise bigger the a dime every year. It's also about giving you a lawyer if they shaft you and lie about stuff to fuck you over. It's about giving you the power to enforce the labor laws as written instead of having to take out a loan to hire a lawyer if the company abuses you. You still get minimum wage when you start at a union theme park, but you get a little better after a year and some benefits and protection. For example. yeah yeah "go change jobs" or "get a better skill" sounds great, except it's not that hard. Most union workers don't actually ask to bankrupt the company they work for. The higher ups can take a.01% pay cut to give your 5 year faithful employees a living wage.
yeah ok fascist. There is a balance here. Why do the rich need to be growing their income at a rate of 30% in recent years while the middle class real income is flat and the poor real income is actually shrinking? Some unions are bad, a lot are good. And it's the companies that have priced themselves out of the market. This isn't those lumbering beasts of the Detroit unions or the teacher unions. Pretty soon you are going to be a third world country worker with no bathroom breaks and worker dorms where the beds are never cold.
Your ignorance of worker history is amazing. Without unions we would still not have a middle class. We would have the poor and the rich. Guess which one would be sent to shitty 'only teach what you need to stay in your station' schools with a boot in their ass from birth to early death. OR more likely, put to work at age 8.
By that logic you actully think the company execs are worth 10million. Ok, so the manager that works 9 hours a day and has to work all shopping holidays gets what, $20 at best an hour with no overtime? For 50 hour work weeks and shitty hours. So does the high ups work a magic 100,000 hours a week to yearn what you make in 10 years? I agree they ARE worth more. But they are not worth THAT much more, so either they need to make less, or the rest of us need to make more. Income inequality is going through the roof. They rich are growing away from the poor and middle class in the US at a superfast rate. while the real income of 50% of the population is actually shrinking.
Or the Apple top exes could cut thier mutli-million dollar salries 1 percent and give everyone raises. It's not a error in math that the rich vs poor gap is growing at a alarming right, and the rich and middle class gab. To the point that don't even know how to spend thier money anymore. They Corrupt governments, and none of their hairs will have to work for generations. Watch now, right now, a new ruling class is with created in front of your eyes with a disdain for the populace at a level you have never been familiar with in your life time.
Are you not aware how company try so many loops and tricks just to keep the serfs part time? There is nothing wrong with a good union. They are not all like the teachers unions.
Slashdot Mirror
nothing but good will come of this. I'm also ok with Microsoft ripping of the best ides, like Blizzard did with it's WoW interface API
never heard of tineye, or the tineye app or the tineye firefox extension?
do your own research lazy ass
No, they aren't slaves in the chained down sense, but they are 'forced' in the sense walmart has illegally lowered prices below cost when they go into new areas till every other business goes out of business then raises prices back to a profit level. So if people want to work at all to, say, earn money for college, they have very few choices. and not everyone has the means to move. They have been a large part of the reduction in living wages for entry lvl employees
here are some other snips: The 2004 report by U.S. Representative George Miller alleged that in ten percent of Wal-Mart's stores, nighttime employees were locked inside, holding them prisoner. There has been some concern that Wal-Mart's policy of locking its nighttime employees in the building has been implicated in a longer response time to dealing with various employee emergencies, or weather conditions such as hurricanes in Florida.[Wal-Mart said this policy was to protect the workers and the store's contents, in high-crime areas and acknowledges that some employees were inconvenienced in some instances for up to an hour as they had trouble locating a manager with the key.
Wal-Mart has also faced accusations involving poor working conditions of its employees. For example, a 2005 class action lawsuit in Missouri asserted approximately 160,000 to 200,000 people who were forced to work off-the-clock, were denied overtime pay, or were not allowed to take rest and lunch breaks
"Wal-Mart has also been accused of ethical problems. It is said that the Wal-Mart employees are gender discriminated when trying to be hired and treated in the work area. In Duke vs. Wal-Mart inc., which was a discrimination case on behalf of more than 1.5 million current and former female employees of Wal-Mart’s 3,400 stores across the United States. (9th circuit 2007) Dr. William Bliebly who evaluated Wal-Mart’s employment policies "against what social science research shows to be factors that create and sustain bias and those that minimize bias” (Bliebly) and he finished by saying, the men and women not being created equal in the workforce is what Wal-Mart is doing and what they should essentially not be doing."
P.S. Oh, and yes, I was just talking about the US. Sense I was auguring indirectly for unions in the states.
Citation needed.
ask and you will receive. This is the best I could find in the 2 minutes I had: http://acivilamericandebate.wordpress.com/2011/04/10/the-30-year-growth-of-income-inequality/ it's about just past 1/3 way down the page. 1% a year before inflation growth sense 1979. (Site is sourcing http://www.cbpp.org/ feel free to crawl that site).
your ability to completely miss Hyperbole is sort of cute. You might make a good logic programmer
lol, this guy thinks the fed is still a functioning system,
it's often in the union contract, you can only hire union employees in some US states. only in so called 'Right to work' US states, this is illegal.
yeah, no. In a good union, people still get fired all the time for laziness. It's not a protection vs firing, it's a protection vs unfair firing. And as you pointed out, you still still have other incentives to work hard; getting promoted. Furthermore, Unions don't outlaw bonuses or commission or other ways to get rewarded for hard work either. I think your knowledge of unions comes 4th hand from 70s news sources and factory floors.
If the Law works so well, why didn't it work to stop jack booted union thugs? Or maybe having the law isn't enough, and it helps to have a GOOD union to support you.
The reason why is because I took economics in college. Appeal to authority
Most college grads make $12/hr today in this economy.
no they don't
Steve jobs is not the one that is over payed. It's the officers under him, that are replaceable, that are over payed.
(bawww we can't compete because Toyota can make cars cheaper.
NO NO, that is wrong! You can't compete because you can't make cars as GOOD as Toyota. And you had a fucking natural advantage because it's fucking expensive to ship cars overseas Vs say a crate of TVs. This was before Toyoda had stateside factories. But still spend all your management effort on lobbying congress for traiffs, or for more tax breaks, or for a bail out. instead of better cars. I'm still fucking pissed your shittasic management of the last (at least) 40 years retired with more money then your great-great-grand children will be able spend. Detroit has run a very successful FUD campaign vs their unions, and I actually think they drink their own kool-aid. It helps that their unions do actually suck and are too powerful, so it's a easy target, but the unions were NOT IN ANY WAY the reason for your 40 year collapse.
Which should have happened a lot fucking faster if the government hadn't protected you GM. So funny how with unions it';s all "let the free market work" But with tariffs and tax breaks and bailouts you are ALL ABOUT the government intervention. What's good(or bad) for the goose is good for the gander. Fuck GM and them bleeding the free market dry.
you really think the free market will work this out when companies often have, not using hyperbole, millions of liquid dollars for lawyers and millions more to write laws in their favor that are written by the companies then handed to their employees; the state/federal congressmembers? Now that the court ruled there can be no limits on company campaign donations, the company are the only ones they have to please because the give 10,000times more money then individual voters can. The cabal of this country is almost complete. Unions are next on the chopping block. The politicians love to say voters are not dumb, which voters love to believe (because they are dumb).
hahahaha. Your ignorance amuses me. Keep drinking the kool-aid.
mod parent up
Unions promote laziness.
That is a negative stereotype that I have never seen in my first hand experience with unions.
If this guy gets fired from or quits at Apple, it won't be easy for him to be hired by a different company
If he is in contact with another retail union that is supporting him (he should be) they will take care of him
except it's so hard to actually enforce the labor laws. You have to hire a lawyer you can't afford and are forced into arbitration and arbitration companies over 90% of the time rule in favor of the company that hires them, in this case the employer. The employer might deal with thousands of cases with the arbitration company a year, guess who the arbitration company in a free market knowing the employer has the choice to switch arbitrators is going to side with if they want more business? Or you can try to file with your states labor dept, if your lucky enough to be in a state with a working one (read: the states that get blasted in the media for being 'bad for businesses'), and deal with dmv employee like stubbornness and confusing process and years of delay while you look for a new job or work under illegal conditions. Having a union rep is the evident to being able to say 'talk to my lawyer' for the rest of us. Yeah, a few percent really abuse it and make managers hate unions but that is not the majority of union workers
No one said we don't want Foxconn unionized. The two are mutually exclusive.
Most unions do not become abusive. Stop using Detroit as your baseline. As actor unions have shown, there is still plenty of money for everyone. Or try I.A.T.S.E. that includes themepark works and such. It's more then just a raise bigger the a dime every year. It's also about giving you a lawyer if they shaft you and lie about stuff to fuck you over. It's about giving you the power to enforce the labor laws as written instead of having to take out a loan to hire a lawyer if the company abuses you. You still get minimum wage when you start at a union theme park, but you get a little better after a year and some benefits and protection. For example. yeah yeah "go change jobs" or "get a better skill" sounds great, except it's not that hard. Most union workers don't actually ask to bankrupt the company they work for. The higher ups can take a .01% pay cut to give your 5 year faithful employees a living wage.
yeah ok fascist. There is a balance here. Why do the rich need to be growing their income at a rate of 30% in recent years while the middle class real income is flat and the poor real income is actually shrinking? Some unions are bad, a lot are good. And it's the companies that have priced themselves out of the market. This isn't those lumbering beasts of the Detroit unions or the teacher unions. Pretty soon you are going to be a third world country worker with no bathroom breaks and worker dorms where the beds are never cold.
Your ignorance of worker history is amazing. Without unions we would still not have a middle class. We would have the poor and the rich. Guess which one would be sent to shitty 'only teach what you need to stay in your station' schools with a boot in their ass from birth to early death. OR more likely, put to work at age 8.
By that logic you actully think the company execs are worth 10million. Ok, so the manager that works 9 hours a day and has to work all shopping holidays gets what, $20 at best an hour with no overtime? For 50 hour work weeks and shitty hours. So does the high ups work a magic 100,000 hours a week to yearn what you make in 10 years? I agree they ARE worth more. But they are not worth THAT much more, so either they need to make less, or the rest of us need to make more. Income inequality is going through the roof. They rich are growing away from the poor and middle class in the US at a superfast rate. while the real income of 50% of the population is actually shrinking.
Or the Apple top exes could cut thier mutli-million dollar salries 1 percent and give everyone raises. It's not a error in math that the rich vs poor gap is growing at a alarming right, and the rich and middle class gab. To the point that don't even know how to spend thier money anymore. They Corrupt governments, and none of their hairs will have to work for generations. Watch now, right now, a new ruling class is with created in front of your eyes with a disdain for the populace at a level you have never been familiar with in your life time.
Are you not aware how company try so many loops and tricks just to keep the serfs part time? There is nothing wrong with a good union. They are not all like the teachers unions.