if people really are living with relatively low incomes, whatever that may be, they shouldn't be spending it on increasing their internet experience, nor should they be incited to by the lower cost.
That's right, they should be spending it on Slim Jims, beer and lottery tickets, like the good old days.
We'll have none of this tapping into a world of information, education, free software, looking for work, looking for a better place to live, access to cheap delivered goods instead of being stuck getting everything from the low income neighborhood ripoff joint, effective communication with each other across town or across the globe without having to support a landline/cell contract, etc. Think of the children, man!
Especially at a lower cost than what they're paying now for inferior service. Jeeeezus Christ, where's the economic sense in that? Do you know what will happen to the nation's economy if the mass of low income people start being incited to buy things because they cost less?
It'll collapse, that's what it'll do. We depend on them to buy Kellog's Frosted Flakes instead of Corn Meal and sugar, Microsoft Windows instead of downloading Ubuntu, emergency room visits for flu instead of a reasonably priced GP down the block, blockbuster movies instead of community theater.
Just who do they think they are determining their own priorities anyway? The whole point of having low income people around is so that higher income people can tell them how they should be living, innit? Next thing ya know they'll start thinking they might like an afternoon at the art museum or something. We'd have to rub shoulders with them or something if we allowed that sort of thing; when they should be putting in that sixteenth hour at work, dammit. They obviously need the three bucks.
No, the purpose of low income people is to pick oranges/cotton to provide tax dollars to provide museums and ubiquitous WiFi for high income people.
...who are going to have to unvelcro themselves from their armchairs in front of their HDTVs and actually go and spend some time educating and spending time with their kids in order to show them how to behave responsibly - both online and offline.
I find it interesting that instead of actually commenting on what I said, you go for the "I'm older and wiser don't argue with me" BS.
I did no such fucking thing and I resent the assertion. I was clearly falling back on childish posturing.
Basically, I used my experience, education and what info the guy/gal gave/. to form an opinion. Care to do the same? You know, instead of this childish posturing.
Well, D'oh! See above.
Of course I did so in part because, basically:
. .."I used my experience, education and what info the guy/gal gave/. to form an opinion. Care to do the same? You know, instead of this childish posturing."
You did no such thing. You presented a subjective feeling on the matter. Since there is nothing factually wrong with your subjective feeling you are welcome to it. There is nothing for me to argue with on a rational basis. I like red; you like blue. I don't condsider you not liking red to be some sort of attack on me personally.
The guy/gal/thing gave no actual information on the needed application at all. He/she/it was being too weirded out by the idea that someone wasn't all hep about his/her/its web based solution when everyone knows that Web 2.0 is where it's at; for everything, all the time. I yanked at his/her/its chain a bit by suggesting that text was a viable text based interface. And it is. Sometimes. But I don't know if it is in his/her/its case; because I haven't a fucking clue what that case is.
And neither do you. But plain text at the console makes you feel like you're looking at a shell script and you don't feel that a shell script is a real application. Well, ok. If that's your thing/hangup/feeling. Coulda been worse; coulda been your My Little Pony collection or something, which still would have been no nevermind to me.
So I acted silly; even to the point of posturing childishly. Quite on purpose. I do that sometimes. It's my subjective feeling and I'm welcome to it. It isn't an attack on your selfworth.
I've got another subjective feeling; he/she/it is the wrong person/thing for the client; but he/she/it might, if he/she/it keeps its mind open and is willing to think about things and consider my suggestion: become the right person in the process of actually doing the job.
And that would be good for he/she/it.
I'll end by restating and expanding my suggestion somewhat:
When presented with a task do not think in terms of a specific language, interface, solution as your first step. First; define the need.
Then find the simplest solution to that need. Don't add complimications until you need to. Otherwise you're just playing with yourself at your employers expense. Not a bad job, but not necesarily ethical; and you might even get caught.
If your employer wants to pay you to watch, or play with him/her/it; and you are a consenting programmer; well, that's no nevermind to me. That's a subjective thing. Work it out between yourselves. Within reasonable limits the subjective feelings of the employer are even one of the objective programming needs to be met. Maybe he can't work unless there are My Little Pony gifs all over his desktop or something.
But I get the impression that does not describe the specific client in question. I'd hazard a guess, based on the meager information available; that the client would cream their/her/his/its jeans if their need could be met with a six line shell script.
Maybe someone should ask 'em if that's the case and clarify the issue.
"Would a 'global warming controversy' exist without the millions of dollars spent by fossil fuel companies to discredit scientific conclusions?"
Where's my fucking check?! I've earned it, I want it.
If I don't get one soon I'm going to have to hang up my bicycle, abandon my organic garden, go out and buy a Volvo, burn fossil fuels in it, to get to my real job; with the Sierra Club.
I don't mind being called a ho so much, a girl's gotta make a living somehow and it's honest work, but to be a ho I need get paid, otherwise I'm in danger of being called a slut and that would bother me, so cough up or I ain't puttin' out no mo'.
Unfortunately, updating/migrating legacy systems (even mission-critical ones!) seems to be the assigned task for interns, new hires fresh out of university, and contract programmers in India.
Code written by someone who understood the problem, but didn't understand how to code; being migrated by someone who doesn't understand how to code, or the problem.
But at least the project is being managed by someone who actually has a degree in cluelessness, so it's got that going for it.
As is this post, I'd rate it at 0 myself if I had the power, mod away I can take it, but a rebuttal that makes you feel uncomfortable is not the same thing as a troll.
It's a myth until you want to use an iPod or a digital camera. ..
Why didn't you purchase a music player/camera that handles files as it should; as a mass storage device?
Don't get me wrong, I understand your point, and even agree with it to an extent, but I have a valid point too. The root issue is really bad commercial interests combined with bad consumerism.
On the flip side, and a better example I think, I am in the process of setting up a small recording studio. I have my choice of going computer based, or dedicated console based.
If I go computer based I'm likely to use a Mac, because I can just boot it up, download Audacity, plug in an interface and start recording. With Linux, even though I have some familiarity with it, I will be facing days to weeks of just trying to find the information I need to start hacking the system into functionality; with no guarantee it will ever be fully functional the way I would like.
And I'd really rather spend that time being artisticly creative.
If I go dedicated console based you might think that my troubles were really over, just plug it in and works, but noooooooooo!
This gets back to my first point and illustrates that it isn't a Linux problem, it's a vendor problem.
The console I would be inclined to buy is a nifty little 24 track, but. ..it doesn't behave as a standard mass storage device. They have made up their own file system and codec and just to export as wav I have to burn it to CD first. Does this behavior sound familiar?
And it's obnoxious.
My alternate choice is a 32 track (capacity I don't really need) at nearly twice the cost (I'd rather spend that money on better mics and monitors, ya know, shit that will effect the sound), but it behaves properly as a storage device and handles wav natively. Transfer files by plugging in the cable, dragging and dropping.
And for all I know deep in their little hearts they both run on top of Linux. It isn't an OS problem, it's a vendor problem.
. ..the number of such consumer devices can only increase.
With the majority of them trying to find some sneaky way to fuck you out of a few pennies by using nonstandard this or that. I've got an idea; don't let them. Buy gear that operates properly.
And unlike my own predicament you could save money by not buying an iPod.
And then as a side effect there would be no Linux issue.
Just using stdout isn't exactly what I would call a text based UI.
Well I wouldn't call it bunny rabbits, that would be silly.
Also, personally when I see scrolling text, I think of config scripts and the like. But, something like ncurses gives me the feel of an actual application. ..
Watch youself, Sonny, before I go into a spiel about how kids these days don't know the special joy of being able to read output directly from the little holes punched in the paper tape.
And who gave you permission to write D&D mods anyway? Are you licensed for that? Do you have a degree, or at least a certificate? At the very least did you write them for a duly licensed and regulated corporation as a work for hire? And did they duly license the right to say "D&D(tm)" from Wizards of the Coast(tm)? Do you have such a license to write it here?
If we let just anyone go around writing D&D mods and writing "D&D" without any regulation or oversight do you know what will happen? Well, I'll tell you what will happen:
Culture! That's what will happen. How can you run an orderly society that has culture?
The factories will come grinding to a halt.
Oh, ummmmmmmmmmm, nevermind. But that would imply an excess of culture, so where is it?
Oh, I see, maybe we have it, it just sucks. I suppose I could talk about that, but I don't have a degree in anthropology, so I have to STFU about it, or so I've been told.
We both thought we had accurate information but you just happened to have the short end of the stick on this one.
Exactly.I encountered no confusion. I was just wrong. Why? Because despite my checking multiple sources including the company website you did better research than I did. Much better.
In part because I saw what I expected to see. Marc is "famous" for being the "Chief Hacking Officer." I saw that and stopped there. It happens. Even to me.
Marc didn't send me the memo that things had changed.
Seems our little boy has grown up and agreed to put on the grey suit. Bummer, but it happens. Even to him.
You Are Not A Laywer. . . Seeing as how almost no one here has studied law and can offer intelligent commentary on this latest development, why don't you leave it up for the judge to decide?
You do not seem to be aware of the difference between a lawyer and legal scholar, so why don't you leave that up the S.J.Ds and L.D/Ph.Ds to decide?
You claim to have obtained your incorrect information from the same source from which I obtained correct information, but you don't think that you encountered any source of confusion?
Not exactly, no. I claimed I got it (at least in part, I refered to news articles and the Wikipedia articles on Marc and eEye as well), but yes, I encountered no source of confusion. That would be why I said what I said, rather than "I'm confused."
This sounds like a riddle.
At this point, yeah.:)
Oh! You are claiming that your confusion has no external source.
No, now you are putting words in my mouth. I said that I encountred no source of confusion and thus was never confused.
Slashdot Mirror
if people really are living with relatively low incomes, whatever that may be, they shouldn't be spending it on increasing their internet experience, nor should they be incited to by the lower cost.
That's right, they should be spending it on Slim Jims, beer and lottery tickets, like the good old days.
We'll have none of this tapping into a world of information, education, free software, looking for work, looking for a better place to live, access to cheap delivered goods instead of being stuck getting everything from the low income neighborhood ripoff joint, effective communication with each other across town or across the globe without having to support a landline/cell contract, etc. Think of the children, man!
Especially at a lower cost than what they're paying now for inferior service. Jeeeezus Christ, where's the economic sense in that? Do you know what will happen to the nation's economy if the mass of low income people start being incited to buy things because they cost less?
It'll collapse, that's what it'll do. We depend on them to buy Kellog's Frosted Flakes instead of Corn Meal and sugar, Microsoft Windows instead of downloading Ubuntu, emergency room visits for flu instead of a reasonably priced GP down the block, blockbuster movies instead of community theater.
Just who do they think they are determining their own priorities anyway? The whole point of having low income people around is so that higher income people can tell them how they should be living, innit? Next thing ya know they'll start thinking they might like an afternoon at the art museum or something. We'd have to rub shoulders with them or something if we allowed that sort of thing; when they should be putting in that sixteenth hour at work, dammit. They obviously need the three bucks.
No, the purpose of low income people is to pick oranges/cotton to provide tax dollars to provide museums and ubiquitous WiFi for high income people.
Fucking peasants are revolting.
Next week if you're not careful.
KFG
...who are going to have to unvelcro themselves from their armchairs in front of their HDTVs and actually go and spend some time educating and spending time with their kids in order to show them how to behave responsibly - both online and offline.
I'm behind that idea; I only have one quibble:
Who's going to show the parents?
KFG
People need to learn to read and interact with a basic interface, if they can't, then they will get left in the dust, same as other dinosaurs.
Oooooooooh, we're going to keep an eye on you, Bub. You're gonna run. In fact, I'll bet yer blinkin' right now, ain'cha?
KFG
I find it interesting that instead of actually commenting on what I said, you go for the "I'm older and wiser don't argue with me" BS.
/. to form an opinion. Care to do the same? You know, instead of this childish posturing.
."I used my experience, education and what info the guy/gal gave /. to form an opinion. Care to do the same? You know, instead of this childish posturing."
I did no such fucking thing and I resent the assertion. I was clearly falling back on childish posturing.
Basically, I used my experience, education and what info the guy/gal gave
Well, D'oh! See above.
Of course I did so in part because, basically:
. .
You did no such thing. You presented a subjective feeling on the matter. Since there is nothing factually wrong with your subjective feeling you are welcome to it. There is nothing for me to argue with on a rational basis. I like red; you like blue. I don't condsider you not liking red to be some sort of attack on me personally.
The guy/gal/thing gave no actual information on the needed application at all. He/she/it was being too weirded out by the idea that someone wasn't all hep about his/her/its web based solution when everyone knows that Web 2.0 is where it's at; for everything, all the time. I yanked at his/her/its chain a bit by suggesting that text was a viable text based interface. And it is. Sometimes. But I don't know if it is in his/her/its case; because I haven't a fucking clue what that case is.
And neither do you. But plain text at the console makes you feel like you're looking at a shell script and you don't feel that a shell script is a real application. Well, ok. If that's your thing/hangup/feeling. Coulda been worse; coulda been your My Little Pony collection or something, which still would have been no nevermind to me.
So I acted silly; even to the point of posturing childishly. Quite on purpose. I do that sometimes. It's my subjective feeling and I'm welcome to it. It isn't an attack on your selfworth.
I've got another subjective feeling; he/she/it is the wrong person/thing for the client; but he/she/it might, if he/she/it keeps its mind open and is willing to think about things and consider my suggestion: become the right person in the process of actually doing the job.
And that would be good for he/she/it.
I'll end by restating and expanding my suggestion somewhat:
When presented with a task do not think in terms of a specific language, interface, solution as your first step. First; define the need.
Then find the simplest solution to that need. Don't add complimications until you need to. Otherwise you're just playing with yourself at your employers expense. Not a bad job, but not necesarily ethical; and you might even get caught.
If your employer wants to pay you to watch, or play with him/her/it; and you are a consenting programmer; well, that's no nevermind to me. That's a subjective thing. Work it out between yourselves. Within reasonable limits the subjective feelings of the employer are even one of the objective programming needs to be met. Maybe he can't work unless there are My Little Pony gifs all over his desktop or something.
But I get the impression that does not describe the specific client in question. I'd hazard a guess, based on the meager information available; that the client would cream their/her/his/its jeans if their need could be met with a six line shell script.
Maybe someone should ask 'em if that's the case and clarify the issue.
KFG
"Would a 'global warming controversy' exist without the millions of dollars spent by fossil fuel companies to discredit scientific conclusions?"
Where's my fucking check?! I've earned it, I want it.
If I don't get one soon I'm going to have to hang up my bicycle, abandon my organic garden, go out and buy a Volvo, burn fossil fuels in it, to get to my real job; with the Sierra Club.
I don't mind being called a ho so much, a girl's gotta make a living somehow and it's honest work, but to be a ho I need get paid, otherwise I'm in danger of being called a slut and that would bother me, so cough up or I ain't puttin' out no mo'.
KFG
Unfortunately, updating/migrating legacy systems (even mission-critical ones!) seems to be the assigned task for interns, new hires fresh out of university, and contract programmers in India.
Code written by someone who understood the problem, but didn't understand how to code; being migrated by someone who doesn't understand how to code, or the problem.
But at least the project is being managed by someone who actually has a degree in cluelessness, so it's got that going for it.
Head? Wall. Wall? Head.
KFG
COBOL lives, some 20 years after it's death had been predicted, and thrives. Why?
Because people don't make sense.
You want to add 2 and 2? Great, you get 4, which is what the accountants want.
2+2=4 is APL, not COBOL.
Business only has one real question: "How much money did I make last year?" COBOL provides all the tools to answer it.
Well sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit! It understands the tax code? Why didn't you say so? I'm sold. Hire it as my accountant.
KFG
Spams in my inbox is painfull.
Try using a cigar/lubricant/antibiotic.
KFG
As is this post, I'd rate it at 0 myself if I had the power, mod away I can take it, but a rebuttal that makes you feel uncomfortable is not the same thing as a troll.
KFG
It's a myth until you want to use an iPod or a digital camera. . .
.it doesn't behave as a standard mass storage device. They have made up their own file system and codec and just to export as wav I have to burn it to CD first. Does this behavior sound familiar?
.the number of such consumer devices can only increase.
Why didn't you purchase a music player/camera that handles files as it should; as a mass storage device?
Don't get me wrong, I understand your point, and even agree with it to an extent, but I have a valid point too. The root issue is really bad commercial interests combined with bad consumerism.
On the flip side, and a better example I think, I am in the process of setting up a small recording studio. I have my choice of going computer based, or dedicated console based.
If I go computer based I'm likely to use a Mac, because I can just boot it up, download Audacity, plug in an interface and start recording. With Linux, even though I have some familiarity with it, I will be facing days to weeks of just trying to find the information I need to start hacking the system into functionality; with no guarantee it will ever be fully functional the way I would like.
And I'd really rather spend that time being artisticly creative.
If I go dedicated console based you might think that my troubles were really over, just plug it in and works, but noooooooooo!
This gets back to my first point and illustrates that it isn't a Linux problem, it's a vendor problem.
The console I would be inclined to buy is a nifty little 24 track, but. .
And it's obnoxious.
My alternate choice is a 32 track (capacity I don't really need) at nearly twice the cost (I'd rather spend that money on better mics and monitors, ya know, shit that will effect the sound), but it behaves properly as a storage device and handles wav natively. Transfer files by plugging in the cable, dragging and dropping.
And for all I know deep in their little hearts they both run on top of Linux. It isn't an OS problem, it's a vendor problem.
. .
With the majority of them trying to find some sneaky way to fuck you out of a few pennies by using nonstandard this or that. I've got an idea; don't let them. Buy gear that operates properly.
And unlike my own predicament you could save money by not buying an iPod.
And then as a side effect there would be no Linux issue.
KFG
"You say 'erbs', and we say 'herbs', because there's a fucking 'H' in it!"
Cholmondesley.
Duece.
Eddie may serve again if he wishes, but I have a whole list of English place names here; starting with Birmingham, with a fucking 'h' in it!
KFG
This may be a design feature, to make it "easier", but, in fact, makes things stupidly difficult.
Troll or not I think you have just pegged the perfect Gnome slogan:
"So easy it's stupidly difficult."
KFG
Is it really so hard to strike some middle ground between no options and so damned many you can't find the one you're looking for?
Yes.
KFG
...14- and 16-year-olds is illegal.
Repeat after me:
"O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command
With glowing hearts we see thee rise"
When correctly viewed, everything is lewd.
KFG
Why would anyone want to implement support for really old versions if Microsoft does not do it themselves?
Nobody would. That's the point of it.
KFG
WoTC's Open Gaming License applicable to D&D 3rd edition and later. . .
My D&D rule books have staples in 'em. I'm fucked.
KFG
Just using stdout isn't exactly what I would call a text based UI.
.
Well I wouldn't call it bunny rabbits, that would be silly.
Also, personally when I see scrolling text, I think of config scripts and the like. But, something like ncurses gives me the feel of an actual application. .
Watch youself, Sonny, before I go into a spiel about how kids these days don't know the special joy of being able to read output directly from the little holes punched in the paper tape.
KFG
And remember: Eat a s'peach. Play Little Martha while you're doing it. They're both fun, but music and motorcycles don't always mix well.
KFG
. . .come up with a solution that is reasonable. . .
Free speach.
KFG
IMO, unless you can give a good reason why you shouldn't use ncurses, use it.
I'm afraid I look at things from the other end and say you shouldn't use ncurses unless you can give a good reason for it.
My favorite text based UI is, wait for it, wait for it. . .
Text!
KFG
Is this story about D&D? I don't think so.
And who gave you permission to write D&D mods anyway? Are you licensed for that? Do you have a degree, or at least a certificate? At the very least did you write them for a duly licensed and regulated corporation as a work for hire? And did they duly license the right to say "D&D(tm)" from Wizards of the Coast(tm)? Do you have such a license to write it here?
If we let just anyone go around writing D&D mods and writing "D&D" without any regulation or oversight do you know what will happen? Well, I'll tell you what will happen:
Culture! That's what will happen. How can you run an orderly society that has culture?
The factories will come grinding to a halt.
Oh, ummmmmmmmmmm, nevermind. But that would imply an excess of culture, so where is it?
Oh, I see, maybe we have it, it just sucks. I suppose I could talk about that, but I don't have a degree in anthropology, so I have to STFU about it, or so I've been told.
KFG
We both thought we had accurate information but you just happened to have the short end of the stick on this one.
Exactly.I encountered no confusion. I was just wrong. Why? Because despite my checking multiple sources including the company website you did better research than I did. Much better.
In part because I saw what I expected to see. Marc is "famous" for being the "Chief Hacking Officer." I saw that and stopped there. It happens. Even to me.
Marc didn't send me the memo that things had changed.
Seems our little boy has grown up and agreed to put on the grey suit. Bummer, but it happens. Even to him.
KFG
You Are Not A Laywer. . . Seeing as how almost no one here has studied law and can offer intelligent commentary on this latest development, why don't you leave it up for the judge to decide?
You do not seem to be aware of the difference between a lawyer and legal scholar, so why don't you leave that up the S.J.Ds and L.D/Ph.Ds to decide?
KFG
. . .as a lawyer-in-training. . .
You are not a writer, so STFU.
KFG
You claim to have obtained your incorrect information from the same source from which I obtained correct information, but you don't think that you encountered any source of confusion?
:)
Not exactly, no. I claimed I got it (at least in part, I refered to news articles and the Wikipedia articles on Marc and eEye as well), but yes, I encountered no source of confusion. That would be why I said what I said, rather than "I'm confused."
This sounds like a riddle.
At this point, yeah.
Oh! You are claiming that your confusion has no external source.
No, now you are putting words in my mouth. I said that I encountred no source of confusion and thus was never confused.
KFG