I'm posting this as AC since I'll most likely be modded down for touching a "hero" of the Linux revolution:
I've always rather gotten the impression that he was something of the anti-christ of the Linux revolution, and that that's why he has to waste so much time explaining that he and Linus are not enemies.
. ..very very pleased with himself for having written Minix and fostered the development of Linux.
And says so in the very paper in question.
The trouble is that Minix, which was meant to be an academic OS to study. ..
And says so in the very paper in question.
. ..was never good performance-wise. ..
And says so in the very paper in question.
. ..and wasn't really good for learning the architecture of an OS either.
Here I'm sure he'd disagree with you, however, since you leave out why it "wasn't really good" you protect yourself from criticism.
Minix knew success because it was "this other, free Unix for i386" (and some other architectures like the Atari ST), and people could goof around with it for free.
And says so in both papers in question.
That's the extent of Tanenbaum's achievenemts.
And explains that such is not the case in the paper in question.
. ..but somehow Tanenbaum feels entitled to think of himself as a pillar of computer science and computer history, and act accordingly.
And not only says so in the paper in question, but points to references should one chose to follow them up. Not to mention the fact that if he were not popularly regarded as such among the computer science community said paper whould have no had raison d'etre in the first place.
Now I shall watch myself be modded down as a troll by Slashdotter who have never met, read about, or listened to him...
As a general rule I find it more responsive to posts such as yours to, well, respond, rather than mod down something just because I might find it unpalatable. An unpalatable point of view is not the same thing as a troll.
I have never met the man, nor listened to him, but I have both read him and read about him. He is a public figure in the computer science community, just as is Linus.
He impresses me, as he appears to impress the orginal poster, as just the sort of intelligently sarcastic "prick," in the Swift/Dickens/Twain/Leacock mode, that I rather enjoy dealing with.
Of course you have to consider the source of that last statement (as one might well consider the source of any), as I myself have been accused, on occasion, of being such a man, and may be merely feeling an affinity of kind.
KFG
Re:The Netherlands Connection is the key
on
More From Tanenbaum
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· Score: 2, Funny
Which is no excuse really, as such is commonly available where Linus resides as well, so he could have just as easily produced a wigged out interview with Linus as with Prof. Tannenbaum.
And the weather's better in So Cal.
I can fully understand being willing to do just about anything to get out of D.C. for awhile though.
KFG
Re:Raises some interesting questions
on
More From Tanenbaum
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Of course that's the obvious funny answer. I'm sorry you beat me too it.
Of course the real, and obvious, reason that they did not talk to Linus is because they did not want to.
Things that make you go (as they obviously have for the good professor), "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm."
. ..so why does he feel the need to reopen the argument. ..
The argument was never closed.
He brought the issue up for exactly the reasons stated, to explain why, despite some people's feelings, that he and Linus are not "enemies."
In other words, that he has nothing to be bitter about, so his "defending" Linus isn't in any way anomylous. Seemed perfectly natural to me, and he took the same "dig" at Windows.
If you can afford one of these the MPG isn't going to be an issue.
And it certainly brings new meaning to the word "economical." If he keeps saying that word I'll have to start wondering if he knows what it means.
I can just see people trying to put in enough miles to make one of these things more "economical" than an SUV.
"I'll be back next month honey. I have to put in a quick million miles so that the car looks like it made economic sense to buy. On paper at least. If you kinda squint, and write the numbers really small, and drop off a dozen zeros or so. But at least it gets better milage than an SUV, so I'll be saving the enviroment while I'm flying it. If you squint really hard."
After working on PCs all day I find getting back to dealing with something elegantly mechanical to be a delightful change of pace. It's a change up. Refreshing actually.
I've progessed over the years from learning how to adjust my gears, to building wheels, to building frames, and it's always nice to work on something 'real' instead of virtual.
If nothing else you can see that the bloody tire is flat and what to do about it.
In fact, one of the primary advantages a bicycle has over a car is that pretty much any average Joe can learn to be pretty much selfsufficient with his repairs and and equip himself with most of the tools he'll need, of shop quality, for only a couple hundred bucks, less than some people pay per year for automobile oil changes.
Spot on. The bicycle is a powered vehicle and belongs on the road. In fact, the roads were first given smooth paving at the behest of bicyclists.
For the most part serious cyclists don't even belong on bike paths, its too dangerous for them, the other cyclists, and the people walking their dogs because they don't understand the concept of either "bike" or "bike path." We just go too damed fast for these little noodly things narrower than the average sidewalk.
So get out in the road where you belong, but, when you get there. ..
[i]act like a vehicle.[/i]
Hold your line. Oberve the rules and laws of right of way. Etc.
Major Taylor, the first Black and the the first American to become a world champion in a professional sport rode a 10 pound track bike circa 1880.
I'm afraid the old "gas pipe" bikes you remember are the result of market forces, not science or engineering. Suberb lightweight bikes have been available for a long time, although you might have to give up the modern bias against steel to realize it.
Where bikes have really come a long way in their engineering is in their brakes and gear shifting mechanisms. These have improved markedly since the 70s when this book in question was first published.
Unless you've got one of those new record your life on video so you can live it vicariously later phones or something.
Face it, the technology is going to obsolete any amount of storage.
KFG
how might your concerns be addressed?
on
Privacy in the Woods?
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
EPIRB.
Let me carry one or not, as I choose. If I wish to go out in the woods alone and get lost, that's my business.
If I wished to be tracked I'll carry a beacon, simple as that.
Having someone to come after me if I get in trouble is one thing. Having my mommy watch me all the time to make sure I don't get into trouble is another.
It's a bit more plebian computer nerdy than that. There's a new mod out for Grand Prix Legends. I've been gaming and catching up on the related forums.
That and working on some ideas for a bicycle towed popup camper, spurred by acquiring a pair of wheels really cheap at a garage sale, which is why that particular post caught my eye and engendered my particular response.
Towing a popup camper with a motorcycle actually makes a lot more sense than towing one with a minivan, and you can buy commercial products.
For bicycles I'm reduced to DIY. It poses some interesting engineering problems.
Tests such as these will always make things clear as mud. Engineering is always a matter of compromise. Trade offs must be made.
Do you want a car that goes really, really fast, or do you want a car that gets good milage and has a really big back seat? ( You can always lie about having run out of gas).
Neither car is "best" until you define its intended use, and they both make lousy hammers. I canna change the laws of physics.
Different engineers have different ideas, different goals and different ways of going about things. Thus their output will vary in performance across a range of parameters. Pick the tool that compliments your primary need, then put up with the compromises that inherently entails. It's the best you can do, and yes, even FAT 16 may be the "winner" for certain functions.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm posting this as AC since I'll most likely be modded down for touching a "hero" of the Linux revolution:
.very very pleased with himself for having written Minix and fostered the development of Linux.
.
.was never good performance-wise. . .
.and wasn't really good for learning the architecture of an OS either.
.but somehow Tanenbaum feels entitled to think of himself as a pillar of computer science and computer history, and act accordingly.
I've always rather gotten the impression that he was something of the anti-christ of the Linux revolution, and that that's why he has to waste so much time explaining that he and Linus are not enemies.
. .
And says so in the very paper in question.
The trouble is that Minix, which was meant to be an academic OS to study. .
And says so in the very paper in question.
. .
And says so in the very paper in question.
. .
Here I'm sure he'd disagree with you, however, since you leave out why it "wasn't really good" you protect yourself from criticism.
Minix knew success because it was "this other, free Unix for i386" (and some other architectures like the Atari ST), and people could goof around with it for free.
And says so in both papers in question.
That's the extent of Tanenbaum's achievenemts.
And explains that such is not the case in the paper in question.
. .
And not only says so in the paper in question, but points to references should one chose to follow them up. Not to mention the fact that if he were not popularly regarded as such among the computer science community said paper whould have no had raison d'etre in the first place.
Now I shall watch myself be modded down as a troll by Slashdotter who have never met, read about, or listened to him...
As a general rule I find it more responsive to posts such as yours to, well, respond, rather than mod down something just because I might find it unpalatable. An unpalatable point of view is not the same thing as a troll.
I have never met the man, nor listened to him, but I have both read him and read about him. He is a public figure in the computer science community, just as is Linus.
He impresses me, as he appears to impress the orginal poster, as just the sort of intelligently sarcastic "prick," in the Swift/Dickens/Twain/Leacock mode, that I rather enjoy dealing with.
Of course you have to consider the source of that last statement (as one might well consider the source of any), as I myself have been accused, on occasion, of being such a man, and may be merely feeling an affinity of kind.
KFG
Which is no excuse really, as such is commonly available where Linus resides as well, so he could have just as easily produced a wigged out interview with Linus as with Prof. Tannenbaum.
And the weather's better in So Cal.
I can fully understand being willing to do just about anything to get out of D.C. for awhile though.
KFG
Of course that's the obvious funny answer. I'm sorry you beat me too it.
Of course the real, and obvious, reason that they did not talk to Linus is because they did not want to.
Things that make you go (as they obviously have for the good professor), "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm."
KFG
Well it'd also be nice if people could live without having to buy car insurance, home insurance, etc.
Until now, however, I have felt no need to insure my heritage tomatoes against patent infringment.
KFG
At least, that's his story. I don't know if it's true or not. . .
Do you know if you have patented genes in you, right now? How could you even tell?
KFG
Wouldn't it be nice if farmers could make a living growing food and shit instead of hiring lawyers and shit?
I know,I know, it's just a crazy dream.
KFG
Sure, on the 386 era Emacs was a resource eater. . .
They've come out with the 386 already? Coooooool!
KFG
Or unused french fry oil. Just go into the market and buy some Wesson. Pour it in the tank. It works, straight up.
Of course it costs six bucks a gallon, but you can't have everything.
KFG
What a dork. Everyone knows that to kill the idle process you just run emacs for Windows.
Poof! Idle all gone.
You get a better operating system out of the deal that way too.
KFG
"Modularity! Modularity!"
KFG
. . .so why does he feel the need to reopen the argument. . .
The argument was never closed.
He brought the issue up for exactly the reasons stated, to explain why, despite some people's feelings, that he and Linus are not "enemies."
In other words, that he has nothing to be bitter about, so his "defending" Linus isn't in any way anomylous. Seemed perfectly natural to me, and he took the same "dig" at Windows.
KFG
Bitter much?
Perhaps, just perhaps mind you, he is simply stating what, in his opinion, is true.
KFG
If you can afford one of these the MPG isn't going to be an issue.
And it certainly brings new meaning to the word "economical." If he keeps saying that word I'll have to start wondering if he knows what it means.
I can just see people trying to put in enough miles to make one of these things more "economical" than an SUV.
"I'll be back next month honey. I have to put in a quick million miles so that the car looks like it made economic sense to buy. On paper at least. If you kinda squint, and write the numbers really small, and drop off a dozen zeros or so. But at least it gets better milage than an SUV, so I'll be saving the enviroment while I'm flying it. If you squint really hard."
KFG
A pedestrian crossing at the corner was killed in my neighborhood just last year.
Some drivers you just can't do anything about.
KFG
Now for the religious wars on sewups vs clinchers....
They're called "wired ons," you heretic scum.
KFG
(Sorry about the double post. It's an internet thing)
What if I'm driving in a quarter inch of water at 115kph?
You work in the aerospace industry?
KFG
After working on PCs all day I find getting back to dealing with something elegantly mechanical to be a delightful change of pace. It's a change up. Refreshing actually.
I've progessed over the years from learning how to adjust my gears, to building wheels, to building frames, and it's always nice to work on something 'real' instead of virtual.
If nothing else you can see that the bloody tire is flat and what to do about it.
In fact, one of the primary advantages a bicycle has over a car is that pretty much any average Joe can learn to be pretty much selfsufficient with his repairs and and equip himself with most of the tools he'll need, of shop quality, for only a couple hundred bucks, less than some people pay per year for automobile oil changes.
KFG
Spot on. The bicycle is a powered vehicle and belongs on the road. In fact, the roads were first given smooth paving at the behest of bicyclists.
.
For the most part serious cyclists don't even belong on bike paths, its too dangerous for them, the other cyclists, and the people walking their dogs because they don't understand the concept of either "bike" or "bike path." We just go too damed fast for these little noodly things narrower than the average sidewalk.
So get out in the road where you belong, but, when you get there. .
[i]act like a vehicle.[/i]
Hold your line. Oberve the rules and laws of right of way. Etc.
Then we can all live together in peace.
KFG
Major Taylor, the first Black and the the first American to become a world champion in a professional sport rode a 10 pound track bike circa 1880.
I'm afraid the old "gas pipe" bikes you remember are the result of market forces, not science or engineering. Suberb lightweight bikes have been available for a long time, although you might have to give up the modern bias against steel to realize it.
Where bikes have really come a long way in their engineering is in their brakes and gear shifting mechanisms. These have improved markedly since the 70s when this book in question was first published.
KFG
Yeah, but they gut the motor and replace it with a Campy crankset.
I'm still trying to figure out how the fit the Spinergy wheels though. A Segway just ain't a Segway until it's riding on silk sewups.
KFG
Yeah, but they gut the motor and replace it with a Campy crankset.
KFG
Unless you've got one of those new record your life on video so you can live it vicariously later phones or something.
Face it, the technology is going to obsolete any amount of storage.
KFG
EPIRB.
Let me carry one or not, as I choose. If I wish to go out in the woods alone and get lost, that's my business.
If I wished to be tracked I'll carry a beacon, simple as that.
Having someone to come after me if I get in trouble is one thing. Having my mommy watch me all the time to make sure I don't get into trouble is another.
KFG
It's a bit more plebian computer nerdy than that. There's a new mod out for Grand Prix Legends. I've been gaming and catching up on the related forums.
That and working on some ideas for a bicycle towed popup camper, spurred by acquiring a pair of wheels really cheap at a garage sale, which is why that particular post caught my eye and engendered my particular response.
Towing a popup camper with a motorcycle actually makes a lot more sense than towing one with a minivan, and you can buy commercial products.
For bicycles I'm reduced to DIY. It poses some interesting engineering problems.
KFG
Tests such as these will always make things clear as mud. Engineering is always a matter of compromise. Trade offs must be made.
Do you want a car that goes really, really fast, or do you want a car that gets good milage and has a really big back seat? ( You can always lie about having run out of gas).
Neither car is "best" until you define its intended use, and they both make lousy hammers. I canna change the laws of physics.
Different engineers have different ideas, different goals and different ways of going about things. Thus their output will vary in performance across a range of parameters. Pick the tool that compliments your primary need, then put up with the compromises that inherently entails. It's the best you can do, and yes, even FAT 16 may be the "winner" for certain functions.
KFG