I wasn't aware that Washington made secret offers to subvert the negotiations over the Treat of Paris. Please provide a cite.
And please tell me when Lincoln, as a candidate (i.e. not empowered or authorized in any way to negotiate for the United States) secretly subverted peace negotiations. But if you're "cleverly" referring to the fact that Lincoln wasn't a Copperhead, yes I know. Anybody who managed to stay awake at least part of the time in American History knows. Most importantly the voters in the 1864 election knew - there was no secret. Finally, do actually equate negotiating with a foreign country with negotiating with traitors?
So are you referring the the way the rest of the USA says it or like the people in northern Minnesota, northern Wisconsin, or the U.P. of Michigan. The Canadians fit right in with those who live in those areas.
What kind of a country can't even get its own accent?
As long as the engine hasn't been encumbered by a bunch of electronic crap your not kidding.
The idea that EMP will kill modern cars is a myth. Sandia (?) National Labs has an EMP test setup where they tested 30+ current car models. None of them was affected by the EMP. I'll guess it has to do w/ metal car bodies (on most models) and the fact that engine controllers have pretty good shielding and surge suppression to deal with crap like spark ignition. Hmmm.. does that mean diesels would be more susceptible?
The OP already mentioned the Daily Mail, though I usually look at the BBC myself. Shame none of the major media in the US seems to give this much attention.
You're right, and I'm not forgetting them. The reason I only mention American deaths is because there's no doubt about the numbers, there's no debate about which were the enemy, and getting that many Americans needlessly killed would be an historical class crime, even if nobody else was effected.
Right. News of newly unearthed evidence about an extremely important historical fact shouldn't be published unless it comes wrapped in a complete "balanced" biography of Nixon. As for hanging out with sinners and prostitutes, that sounds more like the Monica affair. Not only could I forgive that, I don't even care about it. Subverting peace talks and getting another 22,000 Americans killed is another story.
This is from the same playbook as the Carter-era Democrats blaming Reagan for sabotaging the hostage deal with the Iranians.
Right. Mentioning new evidence for an historically important fact is just a tactic "from the playbook". Perhaps we should suppress this information because it biases people.
Gawd you leftists are a scream.... There would have been no need for a peace settlement if that DEMOCRAT [LBJ] hadn't accelerated the war in the first place.
Which probably explains why I've never met a "leftist" who didn't blame LBJ for that. So you (presumably a "rightist") are attacking a straw man.
Oh, the guy who started it was John F Kennedy, another DEMOCRAT.
Well, with the help of Ike's advice, but that's not the point. JFK had not built it up to the elevl where we couldn't easily pull out. Whether he would have is unknown and probably unknowable.
Johnson LIED about the Gulf of Tonkin
Johnson was skeptical of the military's account but wasn't sure it was a lie. In fact it was at least half true. A US destroyer really was attacked in international waters by NV, but it happened once, not twice. The second time was about some jittery sailors making a false report. More importantly, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was an excuse, not a reason. Even the embellished version was a minor affair, with no American casualties and damage amounting to some paint scratches on a destroyer. So level Haiphong harbor because they attacked a US ship in international waters and call it even. No need for a protracted war.
It very likely lead to the fall of South Vietnam as well. At the time of those peace talks, the VC and the NVA were at a low point. The Tet Offensive earlier in 1968 was a tactical disaster. The VC were largely destroyed and the NVA wasn't in great shape either. Giap was relieved of command of the NVA because it was such a mess. A peace accord would likely have meant an end to any serious help from the USSR, just as it did after the Korean ceasefire. Without Soviet weapons and supplies the NVA would have been nothing. I assure you they couldn't manufacture their own SAM's.
That may be true, and I'm sure that wasn't the first October Surprise either.
Now, as to your false equivalence of "they all do it", as reprehensible as vote rigging is, ask yourself whether it's worse to rig some polls or to subvert peace talks which then leads to the death of 22,000 Americans and I don't know how many of our South Vietnamese allies.
What's new is the LBJ tapes showing that he knew about it, and why he did (or didn't) do various things as a result. But yes, the idea that Nixon sabotaged the peace talks has been known for some time. This additional evidence is useful and informative though.
I also thinks it's good that this is in the news (well, in some places) because a lot of people aren't familiar with this. It sounds like a wild-eyed conspiracy theory but unfortunately it's not.
Oddly enough US schools seem good enough to get high school graduates into the top tier universities and colleges yet the same graduates
Only some of them
Yes, if all HS grads went to top tier universities, would they be considered top tier?
there is a very likely chance that they don't go with a true understanding of math, science, or pretty much anything that requires a little bit of thought put into it
Do you have any evidence that this is a bigger problem in the US than elsewhere? For example, the Chinese often criticize their educational system for its insistence on what they call the "stuff the duck" approach.
The problem is that it's hard to find American students who are bright enough to become good programmers, but dumb enough to believe they should try and make a living at it.
Actually those would be reasonable business practices if it wasn't for the fact that bribes (oops, I mean contributions) are a legal way to influence the government. The real issue here though is that a supposedly charitable organization is being used to influence government and the public towards what aids Gates and Microsoft. This sort of crap should be called lobbying instead of getting a tax deduction for being a "charity".
Gatto makes a lot of complaints about the school system but offers almost no suggestions for improvement. He also mixes some libertarian rants in with his criticism of the schools. As for his idea that the American education system was designed primarily to support corporate needs, his only evidence is a few random quotes. With that sort of "research" you can prove almost anything you want.
Kindergarten (German for "child's garden") isn't called kindergarten in Germany? I love it!
still devoted to playing, socialising, napping etc. His class was not expected to even learn the alphabet until the first day of the first grade.
Same as when I went to school in the US - I majored in story time and eating paste. Yet we're told that US schools have gone downhill since then. This "teach 'em calculus in kindergarten" thing is designed to make it look like schools are improving, not to actually improve education. Frankly a lot of grade school, and even later grades, are filled with make work to keep the kids busy and appear industrious. I think the amount of homework has gotten ridiculous too. My daughter is in the 4th grade and a fairly bright kid, but she gets about 2 hours per night of homework. What for? Her mother and I always make sure she does it and tell her how important it is, but boy do I feel like a hypocrite sometimes.
Slashdot Mirror
No bombing of supply lines, no attacking North Vietnam cites.
Huh? What about the bombing of the Ho Chi Minh trail and Hanoi?
I wasn't aware that Washington made secret offers to subvert the negotiations over the Treat of Paris. Please provide a cite.
And please tell me when Lincoln, as a candidate (i.e. not empowered or authorized in any way to negotiate for the United States) secretly subverted peace negotiations. But if you're "cleverly" referring to the fact that Lincoln wasn't a Copperhead, yes I know. Anybody who managed to stay awake at least part of the time in American History knows. Most importantly the voters in the 1864 election knew - there was no secret. Finally, do actually equate negotiating with a foreign country with negotiating with traitors?
So are you referring the the way the rest of the USA says it or like the people in northern Minnesota, northern Wisconsin, or the U.P. of Michigan. The Canadians fit right in with those who live in those areas.
What kind of a country can't even get its own accent?
And Quebec would definitely be fine with it.
"better resilience against EMP attacks"
As long as the engine hasn't been encumbered by a bunch of electronic crap your not kidding.
The idea that EMP will kill modern cars is a myth. Sandia (?) National Labs has an EMP test setup where they tested 30+ current car models. None of them was affected by the EMP. I'll guess it has to do w/ metal car bodies (on most models) and the fact that engine controllers have pretty good shielding and surge suppression to deal with crap like spark ignition. Hmmm .. does that mean diesels would be more susceptible?
Canadian ... we're basically the 51st state anyway
Puerto Rico recently voted to become the 51st, but you can become 52 if you promise to learn how to say "about".
1950s ... only eating and sleeping were available in the car
Is that what you think couples did in drive-ins? Ok, this is Slashdot.
The electoral vote was 301-191-46...not really even close.
What's your point, that Nixon's crime doesn't count because he might have won the election anyway?
The OP already mentioned the Daily Mail, though I usually look at the BBC myself. Shame none of the major media in the US seems to give this much attention.
You're right, and I'm not forgetting them. The reason I only mention American deaths is because there's no doubt about the numbers, there's no debate about which were the enemy, and getting that many Americans needlessly killed would be an historical class crime, even if nobody else was effected.
Right. News of newly unearthed evidence about an extremely important historical fact shouldn't be published unless it comes wrapped in a complete "balanced" biography of Nixon. As for hanging out with sinners and prostitutes, that sounds more like the Monica affair. Not only could I forgive that, I don't even care about it. Subverting peace talks and getting another 22,000 Americans killed is another story.
This is from the same playbook as the Carter-era Democrats blaming Reagan for sabotaging the hostage deal with the Iranians.
Right. Mentioning new evidence for an historically important fact is just a tactic "from the playbook". Perhaps we should suppress this information because it biases people.
Since they didn't nail Reagan to the wall for Iran-Contra, maybe they should have gotten him for stealing jelly beans.
And Johnson wants to blame someone else for sabotaging peace talks.
News flash: Johnson ain't blaming nobody for nothin' cause he's DEAD.
Gawd you leftists are a scream. ... There would have been no need for a peace settlement if that DEMOCRAT [LBJ] hadn't accelerated the war in the first place.
Which probably explains why I've never met a "leftist" who didn't blame LBJ for that. So you (presumably a "rightist") are attacking a straw man.
Oh, the guy who started it was John F Kennedy, another DEMOCRAT.
Well, with the help of Ike's advice, but that's not the point. JFK had not built it up to the elevl where we couldn't easily pull out. Whether he would have is unknown and probably unknowable.
Johnson LIED about the Gulf of Tonkin
Johnson was skeptical of the military's account but wasn't sure it was a lie. In fact it was at least half true. A US destroyer really was attacked in international waters by NV, but it happened once, not twice. The second time was about some jittery sailors making a false report. More importantly, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was an excuse, not a reason. Even the embellished version was a minor affair, with no American casualties and damage amounting to some paint scratches on a destroyer. So level Haiphong harbor because they attacked a US ship in international waters and call it even. No need for a protracted war.
It very likely lead to the fall of South Vietnam as well. At the time of those peace talks, the VC and the NVA were at a low point. The Tet Offensive earlier in 1968 was a tactical disaster. The VC were largely destroyed and the NVA wasn't in great shape either. Giap was relieved of command of the NVA because it was such a mess. A peace accord would likely have meant an end to any serious help from the USSR, just as it did after the Korean ceasefire. Without Soviet weapons and supplies the NVA would have been nothing. I assure you they couldn't manufacture their own SAM's.
That may be true, and I'm sure that wasn't the first October Surprise either.
Now, as to your false equivalence of "they all do it", as reprehensible as vote rigging is, ask yourself whether it's worse to rig some polls or to subvert peace talks which then leads to the death of 22,000 Americans and I don't know how many of our South Vietnamese allies.
What's new is the LBJ tapes showing that he knew about it, and why he did (or didn't) do various things as a result. But yes, the idea that Nixon sabotaged the peace talks has been known for some time. This additional evidence is useful and informative though.
I also thinks it's good that this is in the news (well, in some places) because a lot of people aren't familiar with this. It sounds like a wild-eyed conspiracy theory but unfortunately it's not.
Don't be so impressed - most sociopaths can lie very well.
Oddly enough US schools seem good enough to get high school graduates into the top tier universities and colleges yet the same graduates
Only some of them
Yes, if all HS grads went to top tier universities, would they be considered top tier?
there is a very likely chance that they don't go with a true understanding of math, science, or pretty much anything that requires a little bit of thought put into it
Do you have any evidence that this is a bigger problem in the US than elsewhere? For example, the Chinese often criticize their educational system for its insistence on what they call the "stuff the duck" approach.
The problem is that it's hard to find American students who are bright enough to become good programmers, but dumb enough to believe they should try and make a living at it.
They teach math in high school yet not every HS graduate is considered a mathematician.
Actually those would be reasonable business practices if it wasn't for the fact that bribes (oops, I mean contributions) are a legal way to influence the government. The real issue here though is that a supposedly charitable organization is being used to influence government and the public towards what aids Gates and Microsoft. This sort of crap should be called lobbying instead of getting a tax deduction for being a "charity".
Gatto makes a lot of complaints about the school system but offers almost no suggestions for improvement. He also mixes some libertarian rants in with his criticism of the schools. As for his idea that the American education system was designed primarily to support corporate needs, his only evidence is a few random quotes. With that sort of "research" you can prove almost anything you want.
Vorschule (in the US, called kindergarden)
Kindergarten (German for "child's garden") isn't called kindergarten in Germany? I love it!
still devoted to playing, socialising, napping etc. His class was not expected to even learn the alphabet until the first day of the first grade.
Same as when I went to school in the US - I majored in story time and eating paste. Yet we're told that US schools have gone downhill since then. This "teach 'em calculus in kindergarten" thing is designed to make it look like schools are improving, not to actually improve education. Frankly a lot of grade school, and even later grades, are filled with make work to keep the kids busy and appear industrious. I think the amount of homework has gotten ridiculous too. My daughter is in the 4th grade and a fairly bright kid, but she gets about 2 hours per night of homework. What for? Her mother and I always make sure she does it and tell her how important it is, but boy do I feel like a hypocrite sometimes.