Funny, I do the same thing.. And becouse Jabber is based on DNS, I host my own jabber servers, to.. 8-P
Anyway, the point is, an open, free to implement system based on a good, open namespace, wins every time.. And the only system out there that can do this currently IS Jabber..
I'd love for you to show me the TOC protocol itself? If AOL 'encourages' it's use, where is it?
And tell me, do you also have access to the AIM chatrooms? If you look carefully, you'll notice that TOC maintains it's own, baren, featureless chatrooms.
TOC exists as their test clients 'failover' protocol, and often messages send on it are lost or dropped, servers timeout, change, etc, and your rosters will disappear.
Show me SOMETHING from AOL that recomends TOC as an external interface to the AIM system..
And I'd also put money on the fact that, if enough people actually used TOC, the servers and protocol used would simply vanish into thin air..
That is becouse currently, none of the external systems have allowed any OTHER external systems to exist as a seperate, connected entity. In the case of a truely open server to server protocol, you would not NEED to have an account on AIM.
It looks and sounds to me like that is what AIM wishes to do. In this case, and external entities would take care of validation, and yes, the messages could just be sent into the ether, just like email currently..
My point is, the jabber protocol itself doesn't care. It simply enforces domains the same way email does. The only reason why transports current require 'logging in' is becouse no other IM system supports the idea of an external server based interface..
Once the external systems can address an entity as ANYTHING but a user, you would no longer have to login..
And while we're at it, we'll just go back to using gopher instead of HTTP. I mean after all, you could just..
Yes, I'm joking.. SMTP, while capable of doing IM, isn't really built for it. The setup and breakdown on connections required for mail deleivery would kill a large scale IM system..
But you might use their mail server. In the case of Jabber, it's a nice, open, XML based protocol, with several clients out there that are pretty darned good. Even Disney is using it for their !Go Messenger system.
This means that the scope of the addresses isn't 1 simple list. It means it has two 'layers', entity@domain. The only limitation to a use rlist is that the entity must be unique within a domain. This is very simular to how email works..
Within AOLs AIM, there is only 1 'user' list, and no way to actually specify that something is actually an external, NON AIM entity..
But they can't, becouse Trillian is simply an overglorified IRC client with DLL plugins to talk to the other IM systems, just like any other IM clone on the face of the earth..
There is no new server technology, no new ideas, and most importantly, no way for anyone else to run a server, and open up their own IM server, which can talk to other systems as well..
Thats the point. The Jabber protocol itself doesn't care. The external systems care, with the exception of MSIM, which, if opened up more, can allow this as well. In the case of MSIM, it does do name resolution, and you CAN setup your own MSIM servers, and NOT have an account on MSIM, but be running off of your own exchange server..
Look it up..
And Thats exactly what my jabber roster looks like:
And anyone can set these up. If AIM or yahoo allowed us to talk direct, we could just as easily be twolf1973@yahoo.com. The only reason for our naming being slightly different, is we need to be able to resolve to a transport.
Depending on the server, as with my home server, transports can be given simple names, such as aim, icq, etc..:
Primarily becouse AOL doesn't 'notice' the connections, as they do with Jabber. Since the servers are the gateways in Jabber, when the servers get blocked, that transport is useless.
Not a better nor worse design then Trillian, just different. It is not connecting 'incorrectly' to AIM, it's simply becouse blocked by their servers due to its IP. Don't spread FUD for the sake of apperent dislike of a design decision, you just look foolish.
And Trillain is not server based, and hence, not just 'anyone' can setup a server. Jabber supporting something is as easy as adding a transport, with no changes required by the client. Trillian, on the other hand, requires ever single client be updated to support something new, becouse, in the end, it's justa glorified IRC client with plugins for the interface..
In the case of Jabber IM, names are simular to DNS, such as tcharron@jabber.org. The wonderfull thing about this is, in many cases, the thing on the other side can provide many more capabilities then just chatting. The Jabber protocol itself supports a rich set of Info/Query routines, whcih allow other 'things' to happen over the protocol, only limited by the imagination of the developers.
A perfect example is user database and news tickers. No person there, yet you can interact with them with just another address. And not by sending messages, either, by actually registering with them via a form.. 8-)
The interesting thing is, of all of the IM systems, Jabber, I can promise, will be the first one to support external access to AIM. It is one of only two IM systems that I know of that has the capability of addressing 'external' namespace out of the box.
If it is also based on the psuedo protocol put forth by the Open IM group, it will be in Jabber within the hour. 8-P
Jabber is entirely based on the idea of, implement it the right way. By doing this, it accepts the idea that other speak other languages to talk to 'things'. Open namespaces allow nearly any 'node' on the network to really be anything. A client, an 'adapter' (Transport), or heck, even a toaster..
Jabber does NOT require you have accounts with every other service. Jabber is actually one of the only services besides Microsoft that can actually support the capability right now to deal with external IM systems.
Jabber is not a client, it's an XML messaging architecture that JabberIm is built on. It named based on DNS, and essentially has it's namespace scope limited only by name resolution.
This is due to the fact that the other IM players consistently block the IPs that the transporst are run from, and hence, they are only up between the time it's moved to a new IP, and the time they figure it out and block that IP. j.o. entire Class C is now banned.. 8-P
Yes, I'm well aware, but the point is the same. You'd think they'd wants other applications to be able to interoperate. But instead, they throw a fit..
These are simply not going to slel at that price range. It's just not worth 2200 bucks. Put it down near a grand or so, and maybee, but the use and capabilities provided simply do not meet the price tag. Look at what it provides..
Thats it. Combined, the equipment, not counting the fact that this is a transmeta processor, is like maybee 500 dollars worth of equipment. Counting batteries, case, etc, maybee 700 to 800. So essentially, that looks like around a 1400-1500 markup.
I can get a KICKING laptop with a 802.11b card for that price. What does this give me, besides a smaller screen, no HD, etc, that a laptop wouldn't?
Slashdot Mirror
Funny, I do the same thing.. And becouse Jabber is based on DNS, I host my own jabber servers, to.. 8-P
Anyway, the point is, an open, free to implement system based on a good, open namespace, wins every time.. And the only system out there that can do this currently IS Jabber..
OOhh, you mean big boys like, say Disney?
_ id =994825514
http://www.jabbercentral.org/news/view.php?news
Really now?
I'd love for you to show me the TOC protocol itself? If AOL 'encourages' it's use, where is it?
And tell me, do you also have access to the AIM chatrooms? If you look carefully, you'll notice that TOC maintains it's own, baren, featureless chatrooms.
TOC exists as their test clients 'failover' protocol, and often messages send on it are lost or dropped, servers timeout, change, etc, and your rosters will disappear.
Show me SOMETHING from AOL that recomends TOC as an external interface to the AIM system..
And I'd also put money on the fact that, if enough people actually used TOC, the servers and protocol used would simply vanish into thin air..
That is becouse currently, none of the external systems have allowed any OTHER external systems to exist as a seperate, connected entity. In the case of a truely open server to server protocol, you would not NEED to have an account on AIM.
It looks and sounds to me like that is what AIM wishes to do. In this case, and external entities would take care of validation, and yes, the messages could just be sent into the ether, just like email currently..
My point is, the jabber protocol itself doesn't care. It simply enforces domains the same way email does. The only reason why transports current require 'logging in' is becouse no other IM system supports the idea of an external server based interface..
Once the external systems can address an entity as ANYTHING but a user, you would no longer have to login..
Then you haven't checked for a long time..
Heck, ICQ now has migrated to the OSCAR protocol used by AIM..
Well, when one makes so little good decisions, I always find it important to give positive reinforcement with the actualy GOOD ones they have.. 8-P
'Come little Microsoft, let me show you the way.. Why yes, thats a WONDERFUL butterfly..'
And while we're at it, we'll just go back to using gopher instead of HTTP. I mean after all, you could just..
Yes, I'm joking.. SMTP, while capable of doing IM, isn't really built for it. The setup and breakdown on connections required for mail deleivery would kill a large scale IM system..
Actually, it currently uses SRV records first.. 8-P I'm well aware of what it means, thats why I posted it..
Well, I hate to disagree, but I must on *ONE* little point. The @sign does mean something in Microsofts systems.. 8-P
As an example, you can setup your own local MSIM system, and have it correctly resolve, thru MS Exchange server..
Ok, so only a LITTLE notch up from AOL, but non the less.. 8-P
Yes, Gabber is probrably the most 'feature rich' of the clients on *nix. Jarl is nice, but yer right, a bit heavy on the startup side.. 8-P
So, I'd say, jot something to the foundation, and mention it. Put something up on jabbercentral.com asking why this is so.. 8-P
It's great to actually be heard..
But you might use their mail server. In the case of Jabber, it's a nice, open, XML based protocol, with several clients out there that are pretty darned good. Even Disney is using it for their !Go Messenger system.
True, there aren't so many jabber clients available under *inux, becouse many of the developers actually use Gnome, but great news..
*ANYONE* can write one. Several have halfway started some of their owns, but never really gotten one production ready..
Don't write it off becouse of it's lack of a client you like. It's jsut now maturing.. 8-P Check our Jarl if you want an alertantive.
This means that the scope of the addresses isn't 1 simple list. It means it has two 'layers', entity@domain. The only limitation to a use rlist is that the entity must be unique within a domain. This is very simular to how email works..
Within AOLs AIM, there is only 1 'user' list, and no way to actually specify that something is actually an external, NON AIM entity..
But they can't, becouse Trillian is simply an overglorified IRC client with DLL plugins to talk to the other IM systems, just like any other IM clone on the face of the earth..
There is no new server technology, no new ideas, and most importantly, no way for anyone else to run a server, and open up their own IM server, which can talk to other systems as well..
They are using the software. They paid a company, who in turn, furthers open soruce development..
You've watched the movie AntiTrust ONE to many times.. 8-P
Thats the point. The Jabber protocol itself doesn't care. The external systems care, with the exception of MSIM, which, if opened up more, can allow this as well. In the case of MSIM, it does do name resolution, and you CAN setup your own MSIM servers, and NOT have an account on MSIM, but be running off of your own exchange server..
Look it up..
And Thats exactly what my jabber roster looks like:
twolf1973@yahoo.jabber.org
thomas%charron@msn.jabber.org
And anyone can set these up. If AIM or yahoo allowed us to talk direct, we could just as easily be twolf1973@yahoo.com. The only reason for our naming being slightly different, is we need to be able to resolve to a transport.
Depending on the server, as with my home server, transports can be given simple names, such as aim, icq, etc..:
TwOlf1973@aim
123456789@icq
Check out http://www.jabber.org
Primarily becouse AOL doesn't 'notice' the connections, as they do with Jabber. Since the servers are the gateways in Jabber, when the servers get blocked, that transport is useless.
Not a better nor worse design then Trillian, just different. It is not connecting 'incorrectly' to AIM, it's simply becouse blocked by their servers due to its IP. Don't spread FUD for the sake of apperent dislike of a design decision, you just look foolish.
And Trillain is not server based, and hence, not just 'anyone' can setup a server. Jabber supporting something is as easy as adding a transport, with no changes required by the client. Trillian, on the other hand, requires ever single client be updated to support something new, becouse, in the end, it's justa glorified IRC client with plugins for the interface..
Disney paid for Jabber.com's server and support. They also assisted in a stress test to well over a 100k simo connected users..
Hopefully..
In the case of Jabber IM, names are simular to DNS, such as tcharron@jabber.org. The wonderfull thing about this is, in many cases, the thing on the other side can provide many more capabilities then just chatting. The Jabber protocol itself supports a rich set of Info/Query routines, whcih allow other 'things' to happen over the protocol, only limited by the imagination of the developers.
A perfect example is user database and news tickers. No person there, yet you can interact with them with just another address. And not by sending messages, either, by actually registering with them via a form.. 8-)
Yes, that would be nice, and perhaps, in the future, this will be the case. With larger name backers, like Disneys !Go network, this will happpen..
And yes, the !Go Messenger is, you guessed it, Jabber.. 8-P
The interesting thing is, of all of the IM systems, Jabber, I can promise, will be the first one to support external access to AIM. It is one of only two IM systems that I know of that has the capability of addressing 'external' namespace out of the box.
If it is also based on the psuedo protocol put forth by the Open IM group, it will be in Jabber within the hour. 8-P
Jabber is entirely based on the idea of, implement it the right way. By doing this, it accepts the idea that other speak other languages to talk to 'things'. Open namespaces allow nearly any 'node' on the network to really be anything. A client, an 'adapter' (Transport), or heck, even a toaster..
Jabber does NOT require you have accounts with every other service. Jabber is actually one of the only services besides Microsoft that can actually support the capability right now to deal with external IM systems.
Jabber is not a client, it's an XML messaging architecture that JabberIm is built on. It named based on DNS, and essentially has it's namespace scope limited only by name resolution.
This is due to the fact that the other IM players consistently block the IPs that the transporst are run from, and hence, they are only up between the time it's moved to a new IP, and the time they figure it out and block that IP. j.o. entire Class C is now banned.. 8-P
Yes, I'm well aware, but the point is the same. You'd think they'd wants other applications to be able to interoperate. But instead, they throw a fit..
These are simply not going to slel at that price range. It's just not worth 2200 bucks. Put it down near a grand or so, and maybee, but the use and capabilities provided simply do not meet the price tag. Look at what it provides..
400 Mhz Processor
10.4" LCD
802.11b networking card
128 Megs RAM
Thats it. Combined, the equipment, not counting the fact that this is a transmeta processor, is like maybee 500 dollars worth of equipment. Counting batteries, case, etc, maybee 700 to 800. So essentially, that looks like around a 1400-1500 markup.
I can get a KICKING laptop with a 802.11b card for that price. What does this give me, besides a smaller screen, no HD, etc, that a laptop wouldn't?