Have you looked at a new Mac lately? The Powerbooks, iBooks, G3s and G4s all open elegantly - the keyboards pop out making the guts of the portables accessible and the towers have *Doors!*
We're not talking about old macs, anymore - Apple dropped support of most their old hardware for a reason: the times of Gil Amelio produced some pretty bad stuff.
The OS Is the same as the hardware, eh? Have you read *any* of the OS X/OS X Server stuff posted lately? Surely you don't believe that... remember we're not talking about the Mac or the MacOS of old, but of the new Macs and OS being produced now... OS X and a G4 are very hackable.
I may be a bit of a zealot, but I find it odd that your attack isn't on the current state of the Mac, but of the past while you try to insinuate that the current arguments elsewhere (about the current Mac) don't hold because of your experience with phased out hardware.
many of the points that have been brought up have been very reasonable, very innvative - and true. But many of the complaints i've heard about Mac OS are simply untrue.
i haven't the time to see if anyone else corrected some of the atrocious assumptions or time-warped facts, so i'll list the ones i remember from scanning this awfully cluttered discussion...
you can bring a window forward as the active window without using the mouse... it's command-tab
if a user wishes to get rid of their horrid hockey-puck mouse and purchase a multi-button one (from Kensington, Logitech, Microsuck, whomever) they often come with Mac OS control panels so that the mac user can enable right-click and third button actions of their choice! However, my *grandmother* likes the one button
Mac OS X is an apple original (the underlying unix may not - but the interface - the os, so far as the consumers are concerned - is theirs now. as much as microsoft owns their windows gui.)
Mac OS X is VERY scalable. anyone who reads mac oriented news sites will know that the interfaced demoed by steve and on apple's website is in "dumb mode." it's something my *dad* likes. you can make it as old-school mac or as complex as you want... many useful things like the NeXT file browser have been brought over. the current Mac OS even has an "easy finder" (totally mouse driven, removes menu items that most simple users don't use) and regular. you can navigate the "regular" mode nearly totally by keyboard.
want a clean desktop? or don't like the clutter in current Mac OS? open windows with "command-option" and anything open before is closed as a new window is open.
those are petty points but the ones who rail against the MacOS typically aren't users... and they aren't up on it's current status.
i use many things, including Mac OS, linux - with both Gnome and KDE or no X whatsoever, and Windows. they all need work. Apple and the various desktop environment designers for linux have a lot e left to do. i'd rather Msuck wouldn't bother...
i don't remember the article, but slashdot a coupel months ago linked to an AskTog column about GUIs. he had *legit* and serious criticisms of the coming OS X gui and talked about some patents apple held (like stacks, etc) that are true gui enhancements that NO ONE has put to good use.
in my opinion, *new* concepts for navigation will greatly benefit powerusers - but so far, from my experience (in tech support and user consulting), nothing is more solid for the beginner than just what he/she wants and one clear way to get to it. the more methods you add, the more confusing it is at first. the MacOS, of all things, mastered that simplicity - and now they're among the first to make a decent attempt at the duality of accomodating both the new 'puter users and the power user.
...well, that's one paper I'll always be reading. most of my news sites, that aren't computer specific are the websites of some of the newspapers that put a good show on the web. NYTimes being one of them. im away from home, going to school in a small town with a horrid rag i can't stand. i read my local paper (upstate NY) and the NYtimes everyday on the web. when i fly back, i'll be rushing to a news stand to get a solid copy.
i enjoy the sections of the paper that aren't neccessarily "breaking news" - arts and leisure, lifestyles... either just to peek at what the rest is doing or to get out. sometimes it's nice to be able take the paper, a coffee and sit in the sun and read someone else's experience or opinion and be enlightened by another viewpoint... the viewpoints (yes, a gross generalization, but it's true sometimes) on the web, at least where i frequent usually, are often tech-centric... sometimes "old school wisdom" needs to be absorbed - and that, right now, is mostly going to happen through "old school" mediums.
MOSR appears to be run by habitual liars. From my personal experience they're about a third as accurate as the rumor sites in their market (Apple and Macintosh related whisperings)... and rumour sites aren't that accurate to begin with. Why does slashdot somewhat frequently post stuff from MOSR but not the more credible Mac news sites (more ofen.. they do sometimes)? As for OpenSourcing VGS... seems like it could be beneficial, though I don't know if it'd ever happen. VGS is the best PlayStation emulator I've run on my G3 and having that out there would be nice... it'd also be a slap in face to SONY. SONY needs a *Slap*>
it's not neccessary... it's not even suggested. as a matter of fact - katz simply said, "hey look - this is what *i* am seeing happen by itself" and then asked "hey, why don't ya'all mention how you see things."
obviously there are genres of stuff on the web as there is anything else. also the web content/intensity of certain types of content has changed in the past years.
this isn't the same web i saw when netscape 2.0 was the biggest thing... and a background image was a big deal. people have begun to dump all kinds of crap and good stuff onto the web and have introduced business models... that have changed stuff for better or worse. there are new lines and the blurry edges have shifted.
to clarify... my 'continents' are more like idealogical levels... each continent may have the same subject matter or content - but the audience may be different or the professional/corporatization/whatever of it may be different.
of course things will overlap... in an earlier thread someone had 4 groups that, when combined, made all the types of sites out there. take that forumla and plug it into my "levels" at each level and one has what i see...
Corporate/Commerce Net -.coms and trading, conglomorate news site (cnet, nytimes.com, abc, cnn, zdnet), ISPs, developers Info/Tech/Geek Net - slashdot, root shell, maccentral... other platform/topic specific news and forums Community and Zine Net - salon, word.com, other culture sites, etc. Ent. Net - mp3s, streaming stuff, porn, flash sites Personal Net - homepages, and static pages put up by non-pros for theirself or their elementary school or whatever Edu net - public research & development, universities, etc. Old Net - IRC, newsgroups, lists, gopher, wais (all useful to some extent, much more useful a long time ago... i still love 'em. IRC, of course, will always stuck... some things in this category may be on their way out - others are simply well used and matured services old doesn't equal bad or obsolete) of course stuff overlaps... but this is how i see it.
...many of you need to realize something. This is a piece of literature and as such it uses metaphors. It is also limited in length and by the language it's in. Katz may certainly be wrong on some points - but I've seen many people take the text literally and others take it, out of context - then literally. That totally butcher's the intention of the piece. I think we'd all agree this excerpt left out a lot. I think too many of the people who bothered to post decided to consider that is it only an excerpt. Katz plays off ethos and pathos - as well as logic. The ones who seem to be most offdended are those reacting to the lack of pure logic in his argument/explanation/persuasion - without tuning into what you can only imagine he meant or felt. I suppose, tuning into only the logic may be (and yes - this is a generalization) a very geeky thing, indeed.
Slashdot Mirror
Have you looked at a new Mac lately? The Powerbooks, iBooks, G3s and G4s all open elegantly - the keyboards pop out making the guts of the portables accessible and the towers have *Doors!*
We're not talking about old macs, anymore - Apple dropped support of most their old hardware for a reason: the times of Gil Amelio produced some pretty bad stuff.
The OS Is the same as the hardware, eh? Have you read *any* of the OS X/OS X Server stuff posted lately? Surely you don't believe that... remember we're not talking about the Mac or the MacOS of old, but of the new Macs and OS being produced now... OS X and a G4 are very hackable.
I may be a bit of a zealot, but I find it odd that your attack isn't on the current state of the Mac, but of the past while you try to insinuate that the current arguments elsewhere (about the current Mac) don't hold because of your experience with phased out hardware.
Really, that's just plain silly.
Mac/*nix SysAdmin
many of the points that have been brought up have been very reasonable, very innvative - and true. But many of the complaints i've heard about Mac OS are simply untrue.
i haven't the time to see if anyone else corrected some of the atrocious assumptions or time-warped facts, so i'll list the ones i remember from scanning this awfully cluttered discussion...
those are petty points but the ones who rail against the MacOS typically aren't users... and they aren't up on it's current status.
i use many things, including Mac OS, linux - with both Gnome and KDE or no X whatsoever, and Windows. they all need work. Apple and the various desktop environment designers for linux have a lot e left to do. i'd rather Msuck wouldn't bother...
i don't remember the article, but slashdot a coupel months ago linked to an AskTog column about GUIs. he had *legit* and serious criticisms of the coming OS X gui and talked about some patents apple held (like stacks, etc) that are true gui enhancements that NO ONE has put to good use.
in my opinion, *new* concepts for navigation will greatly benefit powerusers - but so far, from my experience (in tech support and user consulting), nothing is more solid for the beginner than just what he/she wants and one clear way to get to it. the more methods you add, the more confusing it is at first. the MacOS, of all things, mastered that simplicity - and now they're among the first to make a decent attempt at the duality of accomodating both the new 'puter users and the power user.
...well, that's one paper I'll always be reading. most of my news sites, that aren't computer specific are the websites of some of the newspapers that put a good show on the web. NYTimes being one of them. im away from home, going to school in a small town with a horrid rag i can't stand. i read my local paper (upstate NY) and the NYtimes everyday on the web. when i fly back, i'll be rushing to a news stand to get a solid copy.
i enjoy the sections of the paper that aren't neccessarily "breaking news" - arts and leisure, lifestyles... either just to peek at what the rest is doing or to get out. sometimes it's nice to be able take the paper, a coffee and sit in the sun and read someone else's experience or opinion and be enlightened by another viewpoint... the viewpoints (yes, a gross generalization, but it's true sometimes) on the web, at least where i frequent usually, are often tech-centric... sometimes "old school wisdom" needs to be absorbed - and that, right now, is mostly going to happen through "old school" mediums.
MOSR appears to be run by habitual liars. From my personal experience they're about a third as accurate as the rumor sites in their market (Apple and Macintosh related whisperings)... and rumour sites aren't that accurate to begin with. Why does slashdot somewhat frequently post stuff from MOSR but not the more credible Mac news sites (more ofen.. they do sometimes)? As for OpenSourcing VGS... seems like it could be beneficial, though I don't know if it'd ever happen. VGS is the best PlayStation emulator I've run on my G3 and having that out there would be nice... it'd also be a slap in face to SONY. SONY needs a *Slap*>
it's not neccessary... it's not even suggested. as a matter of fact - katz simply said, "hey look - this is what *i* am seeing happen by itself" and then asked "hey, why don't ya'all mention how you see things."
obviously there are genres of stuff on the web as there is anything else. also the web content/intensity of certain types of content has changed in the past years.
this isn't the same web i saw when netscape 2.0 was the biggest thing... and a background image was a big deal. people have begun to dump all kinds of crap and good stuff onto the web and have introduced business models... that have changed stuff for better or worse. there are new lines and the blurry edges have shifted.
to clarify... my 'continents' are more like idealogical levels... each continent may have the same subject matter or content - but the audience may be different or the professional/corporatization/whatever of it may be different.
of course things will overlap... in an earlier thread someone had 4 groups that, when combined, made all the types of sites out there. take that forumla and plug it into my "levels" at each level and one has what i see...
Corporate/Commerce Net - .coms and trading, conglomorate news site (cnet, nytimes.com, abc, cnn, zdnet), ISPs, developers Info/Tech/Geek Net - slashdot, root shell, maccentral... other platform/topic specific news and forums Community and Zine Net - salon, word.com, other culture sites, etc. Ent. Net - mp3s, streaming stuff, porn, flash sites Personal Net - homepages, and static pages put up by non-pros for theirself or their elementary school or whatever Edu net - public research & development, universities, etc. Old Net - IRC, newsgroups, lists, gopher, wais (all useful to some extent, much more useful a long time ago... i still love 'em. IRC, of course, will always stuck... some things in this category may be on their way out - others are simply well used and matured services old doesn't equal bad or obsolete) of course stuff overlaps... but this is how i see it.