Re:But Novell owns the copyrights.
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 1
Novel doesn't own the copyrights to Solaris. Novell owns the copyrights to SVR4.
Novell, or whoever winds up buying Novell, would have a very hard time with that case. Not only has Sun paid for various licensing along the way, even before SCO, they wrote SVR4 with AT&T before Novell bought it.
Suing a company over a product they wrote and open sourced would probably be worse than what SCO did.
However, it's not anywhere near enough to justify the amount of investment needed in SPARC as a hardware platform.
Solaris/SPARC is the most popular choice Oracle customers choose to deploy Oracle's DB server according to Larry Ellison who also said Solaris is the best unix technology available in the market.
Oracle customers are choosing Solaris/SPARC. Would a good CEO (which Ellison is) choose to kill off what their customers clearly want?
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I usually don't comment on my moderation, but flamebait?
Someone obviously doesn't know much about the enterprise db space.
Oracle has about twice the market share of DB2. On IBM's mainframe and midrange servers, DB2 is the only available choice, which helps their market share, but otherwise Oracle is the more popular choice.
As for AIX vs Solaris... I thought it was common knowledge which was more popular. Doesn't take much googling to find out.
Larry Ellison said one of the main reasons they were buying Sun was for Solaris.
Solaris/SPARC is the leading platform where Oracle is deployed. Even though Larry was the one that decided to switch the development platform to Linux, Linux still didn't beat out Solaris/SPARC for customer deployments.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the development environment switch back to Solaris now, it makes sense to follow what your customers want, and it seems that customers want Oracle/Solaris/SPARC.
If you have to make a decision for a mission critical deployment, and your job is on the line, the safest choice is Oracle/Solaris/SPARC rather than Oracle/Linux/x86.
For some reason I've always had a soft spot for Sun, although I can't pin point why.
For me, it's because Sun was a very successful start-up based on open source (BSD, NFS) and open standards, long before my non-techie friends and relatives even heard the term open source.
Unfortunately, they received a lot of backlash (FUD) from the linux community for some of the things they've said and did. Some was deserved, but most in my opinion was not.
Sun has done a lot and provided a lot to open source. Unfortunately, they didn't much care for linux, but who could blame them. Think about it, you have a Hummer and a bunch of kids are flaunting their go-kart saying it's better.
And at the time, that was a pretty fair comparison of Solaris vs Linux, but calling Linux a "toy" OS compared to Solaris hurt some people's feelings. Boo hoo.
In the past, they were more about open standards. Something like, lets all agree what the requirements are, and let whoever creates the best implementation win.
They were not only focused about the business use of technology but technology for technology's sake. At least that's how I viewed them. Come up with cool ideas, then apply them to make businesses more profitable.
This could be a bad day for the open source world. Let's hope that's not the case.
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 2, Interesting
According to Larry Ellison, Solaris/SPARC is the leading platform for Oracle deployments.
Oracle has been lagging with Solaris/x86 support so it would have been a great opportunity for sun to do more with PostgreSQL on Solaris and increase their revenues by making a more affordable alternative to Oracle.
PostgreSQL/Solaris/ZFS/DTrace could really eat into Oracle's market if there was more effort put into it.
I think they should have done more with pgsql, and missed a big opportunity, but I wouldn't belittle their contributions.
One of the first thing Larry Ellison said was two of the main reasons they were buying sun were for Solaris and Java.
Solaris/Sparc is the largest base where Oracle is deployed. Linux is number 2. He also said "Solaris is the best unix techonology available in the market."
UltraSPARC sales have been declining but they still account for most of their business.
In the SPARC line, the CMT, CoolThreads, Niagara, whatever you want to call them servers have been growing.
Re:The Correct Answer Is: Support Both
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 1
I think you misunderstood what is meant by development platform. I'm talking about the OS the people that work at Oracle use to develop Oracle.
They were previously using Solaris, then switched to Linux.
If you google around for Solaris and DTrace you can find many examples of projects moving to Solaris development platforms because of DTrace. It has helped them improve their software not just on Solaris but on all platforms they deploy too.
Most of Sun's revenue comes from their Sparc hardware, even though sales have been declining.
They need Solaris for their Sparc servers and since the x86 and Sparc versions come from the same codebase, and the x86 server sales are increasing, it doesn't make sense to ditch Solaris.
One of the reasons Sun's became such a dominant player in the unix market (especially considering their relatively small size) is that, in addition to buying Sun's hardware on the merits of the hardware, a lot of people would buy sun hardware to be able to run Solaris. The same is not true for HPUX and AIX. While there are some fans of those OSs, they dwarf in comparison to Solaris.
Oracle wants sun's hardware business, including SPARC. That means Solaris isn't going anywhere.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 3, Insightful
What good is a copy of a table file with no context, no foreign key integrity, no transactional integrity
Dude, you're talking to a MySQL user. They don't know what those things are.
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Oracle vs DB2, I think most people will choose Oracle unless they're a long time IBM mainframe shop and think their IBM salespeople walk on water.
Same goes for AIX vs Solaris.
This is probably why IBM was even considering buying Sun, to keep Oracle from buying it.
Now you have a great database, OS, server hardware, application servers, middleware, development tools, consulting services, all from a single vendor. It's another IBM, but with products that people prefer.
My guess is that they'll put Solaris in maintenance mode until Linux becomes accepted as a high-availability, enterprise platform. At that point, there would be no reason to maintain Solaris; companies would move to Linux anyway.
Solaris is already accepted as a high-avilability, enterprise platform today. And since Oracle is already selling their DB in the enterprise data center, why use Solaris only as a stopgap until linux meets your criteria?
That doesn't make any sense.
Solaris development is far from stagnant and Solaris/SPARC is a trusted and tested platform for Oracle.
The smartest thing Oracle could do is continue supporting linux but ditch or downsize their development team for their linux distro and move to Solaris.
Why would that be a joke? For years Oracle/Solaris/SPARC was one of the preferred stacks for deploying a mission critical OLTP system in the enterprise as well as many start-ups.
When Oracle embraced linux and created their linux distro, they called it "unbreakable linux", because they made enhancements to linux to make it more stable. Implying that it was breakable before.
You don't have "Unbreakable Solaris" because that would be like having a banana-flavored banana.
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I, as many programmers, like Netbeans more then Eclipse, so changes are big Netbeans will get (more) support of Oracle.
I hope so. I've been using Netbeans exclusively since 5.0 or 5.5. I find it to be better/cheaper than using eclipse. Everything I need comes with it and I don't need to buy any commercial plugins.
Re:SPARC going out...?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Nonesense.
Their SPARC servers are their highest margin servers and account for most of their revenue. UltraSPARC server sales declined but the CoolThreads servers and x86 servers increased, but nowhere near the level of their traditional SPARC based revenues.
Buying Sun, and killing SPARC would be a stupid idea. They could have bought other companies cheaper.
Why would they use Solaris? Even Sun hardly seemed to use it that much;o)
When you say stupid things, you might want to consider posting anonymously next time:)
Anyway....
When IBM was considering buying Sun, Forbes put out a video on Sun's legacy which some of you might find interesting.
It's sad to see Sun go down, but I'm optimistic about the merger with Oracle.
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
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· Score: 5, Informative
Since Oracle likes primarily using "their own thing", my guess is they'll move to Solaris, and their Linux distro will take a bow, since it's based off of someone elses work, that they've not yet acquired.
Solaris used to be the primary development environment and when Oracle switched to Linux the developers seemed to miss DTrace.
In the past, Solaris was the best platform to deploy Oracle on. That may still be true today, even with all the support Oracle has put into Linux. Oracle has kept up with Solaris/Sparc but lagged releases for Solaris/x86. Hopefully that changes now.
As much as I like Linux, I still prefer Solaris, especially since Solaris 10.
Sun's hardware works best (faster doesn't mean better) with Solaris, so I can't see Oracle dropping Solaris. I agree that it wouldn't be surprising to see Oracle moving more towards Solaris.
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Eclipse is open-source.
So is Netbeans.
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Slashdot Mirror
Novel doesn't own the copyrights to Solaris. Novell owns the copyrights to SVR4.
Novell, or whoever winds up buying Novell, would have a very hard time with that case. Not only has Sun paid for various licensing along the way, even before SCO, they wrote SVR4 with AT&T before Novell bought it.
Suing a company over a product they wrote and open sourced would probably be worse than what SCO did.
However, it's not anywhere near enough to justify the amount of investment needed in SPARC as a hardware platform.
Solaris/SPARC is the most popular choice Oracle customers choose to deploy Oracle's DB server according to Larry Ellison who also said Solaris is the best unix technology available in the market.
Oracle customers are choosing Solaris/SPARC. Would a good CEO (which Ellison is) choose to kill off what their customers clearly want?
I usually don't comment on my moderation, but flamebait?
Someone obviously doesn't know much about the enterprise db space.
Oracle has about twice the market share of DB2. On IBM's mainframe and midrange servers, DB2 is the only available choice, which helps their market share, but otherwise Oracle is the more popular choice.
As for AIX vs Solaris... I thought it was common knowledge which was more popular. Doesn't take much googling to find out.
I posted this somewhere else.
Larry Ellison said one of the main reasons they were buying Sun was for Solaris.
Solaris/SPARC is the leading platform where Oracle is deployed. Even though Larry was the one that decided to switch the development platform to Linux, Linux still didn't beat out Solaris/SPARC for customer deployments.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the development environment switch back to Solaris now, it makes sense to follow what your customers want, and it seems that customers want Oracle/Solaris/SPARC.
If you have to make a decision for a mission critical deployment, and your job is on the line, the safest choice is Oracle/Solaris/SPARC rather than Oracle/Linux/x86.
For some reason I've always had a soft spot for Sun, although I can't pin point why.
For me, it's because Sun was a very successful start-up based on open source (BSD, NFS) and open standards, long before my non-techie friends and relatives even heard the term open source.
Unfortunately, they received a lot of backlash (FUD) from the linux community for some of the things they've said and did. Some was deserved, but most in my opinion was not.
Sun has done a lot and provided a lot to open source. Unfortunately, they didn't much care for linux, but who could blame them. Think about it, you have a Hummer and a bunch of kids are flaunting their go-kart saying it's better.
And at the time, that was a pretty fair comparison of Solaris vs Linux, but calling Linux a "toy" OS compared to Solaris hurt some people's feelings. Boo hoo.
In the past, they were more about open standards. Something like, lets all agree what the requirements are, and let whoever creates the best implementation win.
They were not only focused about the business use of technology but technology for technology's sake. At least that's how I viewed them. Come up with cool ideas, then apply them to make businesses more profitable.
This could be a bad day for the open source world. Let's hope that's not the case.
Some of Sun's PostgreSQL contributions can be found in that link.
More importantly, Sun provides PostgreSQL support on Solaris.
According to Larry Ellison, Solaris/SPARC is the leading platform for Oracle deployments.
Oracle has been lagging with Solaris/x86 support so it would have been a great opportunity for sun to do more with PostgreSQL on Solaris and increase their revenues by making a more affordable alternative to Oracle.
PostgreSQL/Solaris/ZFS/DTrace could really eat into Oracle's market if there was more effort put into it.
I think they should have done more with pgsql, and missed a big opportunity, but I wouldn't belittle their contributions.
I'm listening to the conference call now.
One of the first thing Larry Ellison said was two of the main reasons they were buying sun were for Solaris and Java.
Solaris/Sparc is the largest base where Oracle is deployed. Linux is number 2. He also said "Solaris is the best unix techonology available in the market."
Solaris isn't going anywhere.
Don't forget Sun's storage products. Knocks out the need for EMC which was a common to see along side Oracle deployments.
UltraSPARC sales have been declining but they still account for most of their business.
In the SPARC line, the CMT, CoolThreads, Niagara, whatever you want to call them servers have been growing.
I think you misunderstood what is meant by development platform. I'm talking about the OS the people that work at Oracle use to develop Oracle.
They were previously using Solaris, then switched to Linux.
If you google around for Solaris and DTrace you can find many examples of projects moving to Solaris development platforms because of DTrace. It has helped them improve their software not just on Solaris but on all platforms they deploy too.
Most of Sun's revenue comes from their Sparc hardware, even though sales have been declining.
They need Solaris for their Sparc servers and since the x86 and Sparc versions come from the same codebase, and the x86 server sales are increasing, it doesn't make sense to ditch Solaris.
One of the reasons Sun's became such a dominant player in the unix market (especially considering their relatively small size) is that, in addition to buying Sun's hardware on the merits of the hardware, a lot of people would buy sun hardware to be able to run Solaris. The same is not true for HPUX and AIX. While there are some fans of those OSs, they dwarf in comparison to Solaris.
Oracle wants sun's hardware business, including SPARC. That means Solaris isn't going anywhere.
What good is a copy of a table file with no context, no foreign key integrity, no transactional integrity
Dude, you're talking to a MySQL user. They don't know what those things are.
Oracle vs DB2, I think most people will choose Oracle unless they're a long time IBM mainframe shop and think their IBM salespeople walk on water.
Same goes for AIX vs Solaris.
This is probably why IBM was even considering buying Sun, to keep Oracle from buying it.
Now you have a great database, OS, server hardware, application servers, middleware, development tools, consulting services, all from a single vendor. It's another IBM, but with products that people prefer.
My guess is that they'll put Solaris in maintenance mode until Linux becomes accepted as a high-availability, enterprise platform. At that point, there would be no reason to maintain Solaris; companies would move to Linux anyway.
Solaris is already accepted as a high-avilability, enterprise platform today. And since Oracle is already selling their DB in the enterprise data center, why use Solaris only as a stopgap until linux meets your criteria?
That doesn't make any sense.
Solaris development is far from stagnant and Solaris/SPARC is a trusted and tested platform for Oracle.
The smartest thing Oracle could do is continue supporting linux but ditch or downsize their development team for their linux distro and move to Solaris.
I'm hoping that's a joke and not serious...
Why would that be a joke? For years Oracle/Solaris/SPARC was one of the preferred stacks for deploying a mission critical OLTP system in the enterprise as well as many start-ups.
When Oracle embraced linux and created their linux distro, they called it "unbreakable linux", because they made enhancements to linux to make it more stable. Implying that it was breakable before.
You don't have "Unbreakable Solaris" because that would be like having a banana-flavored banana.
I, as many programmers, like Netbeans more then Eclipse, so changes are big Netbeans will get (more) support of Oracle.
I hope so. I've been using Netbeans exclusively since 5.0 or 5.5. I find it to be better/cheaper than using eclipse. Everything I need comes with it and I don't need to buy any commercial plugins.
Nonesense.
Their SPARC servers are their highest margin servers and account for most of their revenue. UltraSPARC server sales declined but the CoolThreads servers and x86 servers increased, but nowhere near the level of their traditional SPARC based revenues.
Buying Sun, and killing SPARC would be a stupid idea. They could have bought other companies cheaper.
Sun already has put SPARC into legacy mode.
RedHat decided to switch to OpenSolaris.
See, I can make up stupid statements without anything to back it up too.
Why would oracle ditch Lustre?
Lustre is a great file system for HPC clusters and is being more integrated with ZFS. I think something like 50% of the top supercomputers use Lustre.
It operates in a different space than Oracle's filesystems and doesn't directly compete with it, but is important for Sun's hardware business.
It wouldn't make sense to put Lustre on the back burner. Even if they did, it's open source.
I think the interesting question is, does Oracle care about SPARC?
The majority of Sun's $13billion in revenues comes from hardware.
The majority of their hardware comes from Sparc.
Why would you buy a company for billions of dollars and ditch it's most popular product?
Seems oracle.com is down :(
Somehow i did hoped IBM would go and buy SUN, if this is really definitive .. how do IBM and Oracle play together ?
Too bad they didn't have time to migrate from oracleAS/Linux to SJES/Solaris to avoid this :)
Why would they use Solaris? Even Sun hardly seemed to use it that much ;o)
When you say stupid things, you might want to consider posting anonymously next time :)
Anyway....
When IBM was considering buying Sun, Forbes put out a video on Sun's legacy which some of you might find interesting.
It's sad to see Sun go down, but I'm optimistic about the merger with Oracle.
Since Oracle likes primarily using "their own thing", my guess is they'll move to Solaris, and their Linux distro will take a bow, since it's based off of someone elses work, that they've not yet acquired.
Solaris used to be the primary development environment and when Oracle switched to Linux the developers seemed to miss DTrace.
In the past, Solaris was the best platform to deploy Oracle on. That may still be true today, even with all the support Oracle has put into Linux. Oracle has kept up with Solaris/Sparc but lagged releases for Solaris/x86. Hopefully that changes now.
As much as I like Linux, I still prefer Solaris, especially since Solaris 10.
Sun's hardware works best (faster doesn't mean better) with Solaris, so I can't see Oracle dropping Solaris. I agree that it wouldn't be surprising to see Oracle moving more towards Solaris.
Eclipse is open-source.
So is Netbeans.
There was a time when Oracle was considering Netbeans, but Oracle joined the Eclipse Foundation.
I don't think JDeveloper is based on Eclipse though.
Might be interesting to see what happens. I think Netbeans will live on. Too many of sun's products rely on it.
What I'm more concerned with is the amount of contributions to PostgreSQL.
I still feel had they put more money/time into postgresql instead of buying MySQL, they wouldn't need to be bought.