Re:"I belong to Jesus" / "Jesus Loves You"
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2
Some players did that. Other players didn't. But, regardless of which did which, thinking Jesus is the most important thing doesn't mean you can't be happy when you win the World Cup:-)
Er, hello? You just commented to my post, in "argumentative" style, but making the same points I did. What's with that?:-)
Gerv
Re:does that work both ways?
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2
> Generally speaking, beliefs are worthless, as long as you are strong-willed enough to meet your goals on your own.
Like those Brazilian soccer players with "I belong to Jesus" on their shirts? Your argument claims they are weak-minded, and not strong-willed enough to meet their goals without a psychological crutch. Is that right?
God gave skills and talents to both teams. This does not make it possible for both teams to win:-) If I were a Christian on the German team, I'd be saying thanks to God for getting me this far.
> i find it strange that when god helps christians they thank it, but when god does the opposite the > christians simply say god works in mysterious ways.
I wouldn't say that - that is, I wouldn't say that "God works in mysterious ways" if something bad happened. For a start, whether something is "good" or "bad" is often only really found out long after the event. More than once, something has happened where I've thought "What on earth is God doing? That's not what I asked him to do at all", yet looking back now, I am privileged to see what it was he was trying to achieve.
> this is not ment as an attack on your religion, and i hope you do not see it that way.
Of course not:-) The balance between human free will and God's sovereign will, and the discussions about whether it's appropriate to pray for victory (I'd say not) or thank God for your talents afterwards (I'd say Yes) are very interesting.
Gerv
Re:My community service for the day.
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2
> Explain this quote from the "prince of peace:" Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a > purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
On a long and hard journey, one might require a sword for protection.
Further along in the same chapter: [Jesus is about to be arrested.] "When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear, and healed him."
Classic terrorist behaviour.:-)
It's obvious from this that Jesus' mention of "taking swords" did not mean you were supposed to attack people with them.
Gerv
Re:Very nice World Cup, but..
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 3, Interesting
> It truly disgusts me that some guy that gets paid $6 million a year doesn't understand that he needs > to be 10 yards away from the free kick. And he'll continue to not understand it until the wall is > completely set up.
Yeah. In the English Premiership, they've nicked a rule from Rugby that if the wall isn't 10 yards, the free kick moves 10 yards closer to the goal. All the players miraculously learnt how far 10 yards is this year - it was like magic...
> he was actually a guerilla (one would nowadays say terrorist) leader
I don't know of any people called "terrorists" who have committed no violent acts, and who preach peace and reconciliation consistently wherever they go...
Gerv
Re:does that work both ways?
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2
> Well, I'm glad you found something that worked for you. We all need something to believe in.
You imply that it doesn't matter what you believe, and whatever works for an individual person is good.
If that were true (that it doesn't matter), then everything you could possibly believe in would be equally worthless, and nothing would help - because you would know your choice was arbitrary and meaningless.
Gerv
Re:Brazil & Jeesus - one fan less
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2, Offtopic
I agree that the team which wins should not claim God chose them over the opposition. But there's nothing wrong in players giving credit where it's due for their abilities. If that's wrong, then so is "I'd like to thank Mum and Dad for supporting me all the way".
The World Series was named after a newspaper, IIRC. This is one example where the Americans are _not_ necessarily claiming that America == The World.:-)
Gerv
Re:Brazil & Jeesus - one fan less
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2, Redundant
Yeah, you're right. That religion thing - it's great for Sundays and all, but you can't let it affect your life. I mean, those people who act like their eternal destiny is the most important thing are total nutters. Far better to turn up on Sundays, sit quietly and listen, take part in the rituals (it's really important to do all these things exactly the right way) then go home and watch the football...
> South Korea has to have taken over the title of > "Whiniest Country in International Sports".
You are joking, right? When South Korea got knocked out, the fans were partying in the streets all night. There was no drunken hooliganism like we've seen in the past (sadly) from England fans after they lose. During every game, the Koreans played sportingly (none of this shocking Rivaldo-type behaviour, or diving, or hassling the referee) and played as a team.
Italy, on the other hand, got eliminated and spent the next two weeks whining about a conspiracy and demanding an investigation. One club sacked the Korean player who scored the Golden Goal against them, although they later realised how childish they'd been, and offered him his job back. Spain weren't much better.
Gerv
Re:does that work both ways?
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 1, Troll
> And here I was thinking hard work and practice is > what gave them their "gifts", thanks for setting > me straight.
If I worked as hard and practised as hard as, say, Lucio does, I would still not be as good as him at football. And I don't know if I'd have the qualities to work that hard anyway.
Among the gifts he's been given are great footballing skill, but also determination and drive.
> Maybe if I pray a whole lot I will suddenly learn Java,
If you had a relationship with Jesus, and believed in your heart that learning Java was something he really wanted you to do (for some good reason), and prayed about it, you may well find you found it easier to do than otherwise.
For example, I wasn't at all stressed about my final exams at the end of three years of University, despite being diagnosed a few weeks before with a malignant cancer. I believe this is because I asked God to help me and give me peace and reassurance, and he did. Here's the full story.
Because he's given us free will - and that means that people are able to choose to do either good things or bad things, even if that grieves him. If God was to force us always to do His will, we'd would be human, we'd be robots.
You can't have both human free will and a world where no-one ever sins; it's a logical contradiction.
> ok god didnt give germany the talents, skill, whatever.
No, he did give them the talents and skills they have, too - whether they credit him for it or not. Who won is irrelevant. Everyone who has commented seems to think I said "God made it so the Brazilians won", and I didn't say that at all.
Gerv
Re:Brazil & Jeesus - one fan less
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 2
> I have been a brazil fan all my life
Really? Funny you didn't know half of them are Christians, then.
> I mean, they took their national team t-shirts off > and put the gold medal on their back just show > the jeesus crap more.
What a paragon of tolerance you are, sir:-)
> (Slayer released 11/9 an album which said it well enough : "God hates us all";))
So you believe in God, but not Jesus?
Gerv
Re:does that work both ways?
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 1
So if Jesus is the Devil, then you must believe both in Jesus and the Devil. From where do you get your belief that both these people exist?
> And stop calling soccer "football." There already is a football.
Stop calling football "soccer", and start calling the sport that you guys play but no-one else does "American football", which is a far more accurate term for it.
You have to face it on this one - both history and worldwide usage are not on your side.:-)
Gerv
Re:does that work both ways?
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 1
I didn't "credit God for Brazil's win", I said that it's great that they recognise that He gave them the talents they used to win. He gives everyone different gifts; theirs happen to be being good at football.
"I belong to Jesus" / "Jesus Loves You"
on
World Cup Final
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· Score: 1
Did you see the t-shirts?:-)
Great to see several Brazilian players (and the entire team, if that enormous circle was a prayer circle, which it seemed to be) giving credit where it's due for their talents and gifts:-)
Slashdot Mirror
Some players did that. Other players didn't. But, regardless of which did which, thinking Jesus is the most important thing doesn't mean you can't be happy when you win the World Cup :-)
Gerv
Er, hello? You just commented to my post, in "argumentative" style, but making the same points I did. What's with that? :-)
Gerv
> Generally speaking, beliefs are worthless, as long as you are strong-willed enough to meet your goals on your own.
Like those Brazilian soccer players with "I belong to Jesus" on their shirts? Your argument claims they are weak-minded, and not strong-willed enough to meet their goals without a psychological crutch. Is that right?
Gerv
I stand corrected. Some American obviously fed me that line and I believed them. Naive me. :-)
Gerv
God gave skills and talents to both teams. This does not make it possible for both teams to win :-) If I were a Christian on the German team, I'd be saying thanks to God for getting me this far.
:-) The balance between human free will and God's sovereign will, and the discussions about whether it's appropriate to pray for victory (I'd say not) or thank God for your talents afterwards (I'd say Yes) are very interesting.
> i find it strange that when god helps christians they thank it, but when god does the opposite the
> christians simply say god works in mysterious
ways.
I wouldn't say that - that is, I wouldn't say that "God works in mysterious ways" if something bad happened. For a start, whether something is "good" or "bad" is often only really found out long after the event. More than once, something has happened where I've thought "What on earth is God doing? That's not what I asked him to do at all", yet looking back now, I am privileged to see what it was he was trying to achieve.
> this is not ment as an attack on your religion, and i hope you do not see it that way.
Of course not
Gerv
> Explain this quote from the "prince of peace:" Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a
:-)
> purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
On a long and hard journey, one might require a sword for protection.
Further along in the same chapter:
[Jesus is about to be arrested.] "When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear, and healed him."
Classic terrorist behaviour.
It's obvious from this that Jesus' mention of "taking swords" did not mean you were supposed to attack people with them.
Gerv
> It truly disgusts me that some guy that gets paid $6 million a year doesn't understand that he needs
> to be 10 yards away from the free kick. And he'll continue to not understand it until the wall is
> completely set up.
Yeah. In the English Premiership, they've nicked a rule from Rugby that if the wall isn't 10 yards, the free kick moves 10 yards closer to the goal. All the players miraculously learnt how far 10 yards is this year - it was like magic...
Gerv
> he was actually a guerilla (one would nowadays say terrorist) leader
I don't know of any people called "terrorists" who have committed no violent acts, and who preach peace and reconciliation consistently wherever they go...
Gerv
> Well, I'm glad you found something that worked for you. We all need something to believe in.
You imply that it doesn't matter what you believe, and whatever works for an individual person is good.
If that were true (that it doesn't matter), then everything you could possibly believe in would be equally worthless, and nothing would help - because you would know your choice was arbitrary and meaningless.
Gerv
I agree that the team which wins should not claim God chose them over the opposition. But there's nothing wrong in players giving credit where it's due for their abilities. If that's wrong, then so is "I'd like to thank Mum and Dad for supporting me all the way".
Gerv
OK - in which case it was even worse, because they were just being mercenary.
Fortunately, Ahn told them to stuff it. Well done him.
Gerv
> Yes, coz all those years of hard work and
> determination doesn't mean a damn thing.
"I do everything through him who gives me strength" - St. Paul. Among the gifts they have been given are determination and drive.
To those players, knowing Jesus is more important than winning the World Cup.
Gerv
The World Series was named after a newspaper, IIRC. This is one example where the Americans are _not_ necessarily claiming that America == The World. :-)
Gerv
Yeah, you're right. That religion thing - it's great for Sundays and all, but you can't let it affect your life. I mean, those people who act like their eternal destiny is the most important thing are total nutters. Far better to turn up on Sundays, sit quietly and listen, take part in the rituals (it's really important to do all these things exactly the right way) then go home and watch the football...
Gerv
> South Korea has to have taken over the title of
> "Whiniest Country in International Sports".
You are joking, right? When South Korea got knocked out, the fans were partying in the streets all night. There was no drunken hooliganism like we've seen in the past (sadly) from England fans after they lose. During every game, the Koreans played sportingly (none of this shocking Rivaldo-type behaviour, or diving, or hassling the referee) and played as a team.
Italy, on the other hand, got eliminated and spent the next two weeks whining about a conspiracy and demanding an investigation. One club sacked the Korean player who scored the Golden Goal against them, although they later realised how childish they'd been, and offered him his job back. Spain weren't much better.
Gerv
> And here I was thinking hard work and practice is
> what gave them their "gifts", thanks for setting
> me straight.
If I worked as hard and practised as hard as, say, Lucio does, I would still not be as good as him at football. And I don't know if I'd have the qualities to work that hard anyway.
Among the gifts he's been given are great footballing skill, but also determination and drive.
> Maybe if I pray a whole lot I will suddenly learn Java,
If you had a relationship with Jesus, and believed in your heart that learning Java was something he really wanted you to do (for some good reason), and prayed about it, you may well find you found it easier to do than otherwise.
For example, I wasn't at all stressed about my final exams at the end of three years of University, despite being diagnosed a few weeks before with a malignant cancer. I believe this is because I asked God to help me and give me peace and reassurance, and he did. Here's the full story.
Gerv
> Why didn't he prevent bad things from happen?
Because he's given us free will - and that means that people are able to choose to do either good things or bad things, even if that grieves him. If God was to force us always to do His will, we'd would be human, we'd be robots.
You can't have both human free will and a world where no-one ever sins; it's a logical contradiction.
Gerv
> ok god didnt give germany the talents, skill, whatever.
No, he did give them the talents and skills they have, too - whether they credit him for it or not. Who won is irrelevant. Everyone who has commented seems to think I said "God made it so the Brazilians won", and I didn't say that at all.
Gerv
> I have been a brazil fan all my life
:-)
;))
Really? Funny you didn't know half of them are Christians, then.
> I mean, they took their national team t-shirts off
> and put the gold medal on their back just show
> the jeesus crap more.
What a paragon of tolerance you are, sir
> (Slayer released 11/9 an album which said it well enough : "God hates us all"
So you believe in God, but not Jesus?
Gerv
So if Jesus is the Devil, then you must believe both in Jesus and the Devil. From where do you get your belief that both these people exist?
Gerv
> And stop calling soccer "football." There already is a football.
:-)
Stop calling football "soccer", and start calling the sport that you guys play but no-one else does "American football", which is a far more accurate term for it.
You have to face it on this one - both history and worldwide usage are not on your side.
Gerv
I didn't "credit God for Brazil's win", I said that it's great that they recognise that He gave them the talents they used to win. He gives everyone different gifts; theirs happen to be being good at football.
Gerv
Ronaldo played in the last World Cup; his fit was just before the final, but he (controversially) played anyway, and had a terrible game.
Gerv
France did in fact get a point, from a 0-0 draw.
Gerv
Did you see the t-shirts? :-)
:-)
Great to see several Brazilian players (and the entire team, if that enormous circle was a prayer circle, which it seemed to be) giving credit where it's due for their talents and gifts
Gerv