Working as the lone Java programmer in an entire company of RPG programmers, my perspective is that the amount of discrimination depends on the skill set as well. If you're looking for someone fluent in RPG or COBOL, you're not going to look for people just out of college (unless you can't afford good programmers). However, if you're looking for something that's new, really new, there's going to be a disproportionate number of younger people with skills in that. That's not age discrimination, that's just the talent distribution. However, because of that distribution people tend to look exclusively at the young guys (and almost all of them are, unfortunately) for this stuff. Young dudes in college have time to learn and play with new stuff like Java, XML, Linux, and all those other happy buzzwords that the marketroids love so much. For the older guys, the ones that have been programming in an old language for 15-20 years, it's harder to find time to learn the new stuff. It's not that they can't, but it's harder. Plumbing goes bad, the lawn won't wait, and the kids are coming over this weekend, and there goes all that time you were going to spend learning NT networking. Other than that, I haven't personally seen an age bias. My immediate supervisor is in his 60's, and is always willing to jump technologies for a newer one. That's why he got into this business. He's extremely well paid, and despite having less formal education than I do (he didn't know what a red/black tree structure was), is valued much more by the company than I am (as he should be, for his experience and system knowledge). Software is the only industry I know of where one's marketability is highest right after college and decreases geometrically thereafter. Any ideas for a second career? Weyoun, I want some of what you're smoking. I mean that.:) No experience == scum job if you don't have a degree, or you're not able to snow the interviewer. A degree just means you might not screw anything up really badly while they train you, so companies are willing to take the risk. Five years of experience, and the recruiters won't stop calling. Ten years of experience, and you don't need recruiters any more. 0Wolf0......"We also know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling." - Henri Poincare
I disagree that Linux has to be dumbed down if it wants to become a desktop OS
I think it's unavoidable, though. Software engineering is the fine art of being crushed between immovable objects (like deadlines) and unstoppable forces (like market pressures) with grace and wit. The comsumer market, as pointed out in the article, is relentless and unforgiving in some very particular ways. Ease-of-use is one of them, bugginess apparently is not (as proven by MS). What I think would happen is that the design of programs would be compromised in favor of rapid development and ease of use, rather than the current bias towards functionality and flexibility.
Here's another scenario...maybe Linux will fork, into a hacker version and one that the general public can use, with many of the same compromises of Windows and MacOS.
Unfortunately, if Linux really wants to succeed as a desktop OS, I think it'll have to dumb down to this level. Most people are not that smart, particularly about computers. Most people have no urge to develop their skills in this area - they'd rather do whatever they do and have the computer as a friendly, transparent, no-brainer assistant to that. Thus the success of Windows and Macintosh - one a testament to the power of marketing and monopoly, the other of why it's called human interface design and not computer interface design. I'm less sure that Linux really should become a commercial desktop OS. Usenet went commercial, and look what happened to it. Maybe the development/server/hacker niche is where Linux should remain - an OS that can do anything, one that users graduate to when they begin to acquire a deeper knowledge of computers. Here's a little bit of flamebait: perhaps the correct destiny of the Linux OS as an advanced development/server/hacker system has been hijacked by those who would see Microsoft taken down at any cost? =DP=...Amiga faithful to the end.
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Working as the lone Java programmer in an entire company of RPG programmers, my perspective is that the amount of discrimination depends on the skill set as well. If you're looking for someone fluent in RPG or COBOL, you're not going to look for people just out of college (unless you can't afford good programmers). However, if you're looking for something that's new, really new, there's going to be a disproportionate number of younger people with skills in that. That's not age discrimination, that's just the talent distribution. However, because of that distribution people tend to look exclusively at the young guys (and almost all of them are, unfortunately) for this stuff. Young dudes in college have time to learn and play with new stuff like Java, XML, Linux, and all those other happy buzzwords that the marketroids love so much. For the older guys, the ones that have been programming in an old language for 15-20 years, it's harder to find time to learn the new stuff. It's not that they can't, but it's harder. Plumbing goes bad, the lawn won't wait, and the kids are coming over this weekend, and there goes all that time you were going to spend learning NT networking. Other than that, I haven't personally seen an age bias. My immediate supervisor is in his 60's, and is always willing to jump technologies for a newer one. That's why he got into this business. He's extremely well paid, and despite having less formal education than I do (he didn't know what a red/black tree structure was), is valued much more by the company than I am (as he should be, for his experience and system knowledge). Software is the only industry I know of where one's marketability is highest right after college and decreases geometrically thereafter. Any ideas for a second career? Weyoun, I want some of what you're smoking. I mean that. :) No experience == scum job if you don't have a degree, or you're not able to snow the interviewer. A degree just means you might not screw anything up really badly while they train you, so companies are willing to take the risk. Five years of experience, and the recruiters won't stop calling. Ten years of experience, and you don't need recruiters any more. 0Wolf0 ......"We also know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling." - Henri Poincare
I disagree that Linux has to be dumbed down if it wants to become a desktop OS
I think it's unavoidable, though. Software engineering is the fine art of being crushed between immovable objects (like deadlines) and unstoppable forces (like market pressures) with grace and wit. The comsumer market, as pointed out in the article, is relentless and unforgiving in some very particular ways. Ease-of-use is one of them, bugginess apparently is not (as proven by MS). What I think would happen is that the design of programs would be compromised in favor of rapid development and ease of use, rather than the current bias towards functionality and flexibility.
Here's another scenario...maybe Linux will fork, into a hacker version and one that the general public can use, with many of the same compromises of Windows and MacOS.
=DP=
Unfortunately, if Linux really wants to succeed as a desktop OS, I think it'll have to dumb down to this level. Most people are not that smart, particularly about computers. Most people have no urge to develop their skills in this area - they'd rather do whatever they do and have the computer as a friendly, transparent, no-brainer assistant to that. Thus the success of Windows and Macintosh - one a testament to the power of marketing and monopoly, the other of why it's called human interface design and not computer interface design. I'm less sure that Linux really should become a commercial desktop OS. Usenet went commercial, and look what happened to it. Maybe the development/server/hacker niche is where Linux should remain - an OS that can do anything, one that users graduate to when they begin to acquire a deeper knowledge of computers. Here's a little bit of flamebait: perhaps the correct destiny of the Linux OS as an advanced development/server/hacker system has been hijacked by those who would see Microsoft taken down at any cost? =DP= ...Amiga faithful to the end.