blahblah.. the Shah was this, the Shah was that yet I can't say how.
What about next time you accuse a good leader who wanted his country to become something, you say why you accuse that person?
People was used in the "revolution" by western powers because the Shah was making Iran way too independant and not letting you western people continue exploiting Iran. (by, four doubling the oil prices, for example)
Either way, only thing you got right is those Lebanse/Palestians attacking people because they don't feel anything.
Shows how much you know.
Who is going to monitor the elections?
What about those who have power and money enough to grab the power in middle of this?
Your democracy is fake and an illusion, your government has fooled you and it's people with your attitude who destroy nations and peoples lives.
Elections in Iran!? A theocracy who murders people for their beliefs? Torture people for their beliefs? Stoning etc.
Just no.
Because I also listened to what Mousavi for example said for his defense and it made no sense. Mousavi also has a bad record which makes give it more credit. Mousavi-gang hardly managed to "bust" Ahmadinejad in any way in these debates either.
Apparently you have not followed the Iranian presidential debates as I have where Ahmadinejad exposed what a thief Mousavi is.
Mousavi was the prime minister and ignored the executions and sometimes went as far as ordering executions. He did not resign or anything, he approved it too officially.
Who do you want to take the power then if Ahmadinejad leaves? Mousavi who is worse than Ahmadinejad? People have been stealing elections since 1979 in Iran - where were you then? Where were you when Islamic Republic were founded in Iran and started suppressing the Iranian people?
Please note people are using this opportunity to riot against the government as whole and not only because of the election results.
Let's say the people riot, who is going to take control if Ahmadinejad is overthrown? Mousavi? Who was approved to candidate for presidency by Khamenie? They are all the same shit. People are being fooled. Regime change is the only solution, go away Islamic Republic. Please come democracy or/and constitutional monarchy.
It seems like we have a lot of happy westerns in the western world who have absolutely no idea what is going on and still act as if they are helping to make a "change" by setting up proxies, twitter accounts and such.
You western people, please tell me, why you are supporting people, who are supporting Mousavi, who have murdered thousands of Iranians during his time as prime minister in Iran when Khamenie was president and the "supreme leader" was Khomeini?. Please tell me, why you support this thief who spent BILLIONS in election campaigns?
Let's say the people riot, who is going to take control? Mousavi? Who was approved to candidate for presidency by Khamenie? They are all the same shit. People are being fooled. Regime change is the only solution, go away Islamic Republic. Please come democracy or/and constitutional monarchy.
"But American oil interests in Iran were nationalized by the state after the revolution"
Not really. The Shah said in a speech that he will under no circumstances renew the British 25 year oil contract in 1979. At the same time he had "nationalized" the Iranian oil in 1973 by four-doubling the oil prices. This my friend, caused major inflation and problems in USA and UK specifically - so much trouble that Nixons secretary called the Shah "nuts". Many times this regime has bought arms fom Israel, done training exercises together and so. Cheap oil was sold to USA, the price was not the same price the Shah had put.
I still have not seen ANY evidence from those who claim the Shah was a puppet (which I will say, is it being a puppet when you 4x the oil prices and make others call you nuts?) but just because Khomeini was a puppet does not mean he should go out and say "LOL LOOK AT ME I AM A PUPPET", no. The idea was to make it look like he was not a puppet.
"I believe the Shah to have been an American client ruler"
I would like to know, perhaps you can be the first one ever to tell me exactly what he did for you to say he is an American client ruler?
"He got massive foreign aid and military hardware from the U.S., his army was trained by Americans and even his son Reza Pahlavi was trained as a fighter pilot in the U.S. air force. After leaving Iran during the revolution he lived in Panama and Egypt (both within the American sphere of influence) and the United States. His son Reza (who you perhaps regard as Reza Shah II?) has lived in the U.S. for the last 25 years."
That's something. There is a difference in being a puppet and working close to someone who has the same opinion and the same threat as you. The Russians ever since Ivan wanted to come near the warm waters of Persian Gulf. Russia even went as far as attempting to annex northern parts of Iran. Of course, Iran at World War I and II times being weak decided to do deals with another country (USA in this case, because they were nice and helped getting the Russians out of Iran during WW II)
Military hardware did not come free, the Shah bought it with the countries money and it was one of the greatest things he did. As you have you seen, the Iran-Iraq war was just a matter of time, at the same time the major Soviet threat from north and the Pakistan-India issue at that time! It was very wise to build up the military.
The Iranian army got (at the time Iran was very weak, with no functional army, say 1920 to 1940) help from the Americans - because you have to learn somewhere. This is not a matter of being puppet but working with other nations, USA did not help because they had "Installed the Shah" but because they helped so both USA and Iran can together fight the communist threat.
And if you have done successful deals, of course you continue doing more deals with te same nation. Do you honestly see "his son Reza pahlavi being traned as fighter pilot in the U.S. air force" as him being a puppet (the Shah).
After the "revolution" - the Shah was sick, tired, sad, angry and everything. He lost his country and had to think about all the innocent deaths, he didn't know where to live as for example USA didn't give him healthcare! He tried to go to a few other nations but Americans said no and the only reason he was in Egypt a lot was not because USA said so (because ofc, why didn't usa let him be in usa?) it was because Sadat (a great man) and worked very closely with the Shah, the Shah gave him free oil shipments when they needed it (later paid back, ofc) and so on. They did training exercises together and so on.
His son, which I do not see as "Reza Shah II" but later as a traitor who has ignored his nation, his fathers vision, his people. I have nothing to say and I can not defend him, but his son living in USA does not mean that the Shah was a american puppet, if he was in Norway, would be a norwegian puppet? He knew English, he perhaps had a apartment there and it was easier to go live somewh
I have read and it all seems to come from CIA whos job is to spread disinformation.
What about you read the other side story a bit? Once you read these two parts, please come back as I have more articles, books and so on.
http://aryamehr.org/eng/19august/19august.htm
Sadly, western media do not want to show the other side.
Oh don't worry, if anything the CIA wins in the competition of killing, torturing, detainting, secret prisons and so on.
And again, where are your responses to Mossadegh wanting to close the parliament? Is that more democract than the Shah who put Senate and Parliament in Iran?
Oh, one guy against milions of people. I guess if Iranian intelligence agency today says Obama is their puppet in a pdf document, you will be the first one to believe it. Right?
There was nothing wrong with SAVAK, as any other security/intelligence agency it protected Iran many times from terrorists like Mujahedin, Tudeh and Communists and from the Russians.
So, what about your CIA who has secret prisons in Europe and torture innocent people in USA? Shall we go into that.. or?
Oh. Interesting to see you use wikipedia, but I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. Since you just give me a link, I will give you one link that contains two links so you can read the other side: http://aryamehr.org/eng/19august/19august.htm
No, we did not put theocrats in power. If you go through the events, there is no way. Explain why the American general Huyser visited Iran prior to the "revoluton" and talked to Iranian generals without the Shah knowing he was in Iran? Later it was exposed that Huyser told them to say "neutral" during the "revolution".
Please read this: http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.de/Eurasien/Shah_of_Iran/shah_of_iran.html and http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/world/1111 to learn what really happened.
Yes. Khomeini was your puppet, because it was the only one you could find against the Shah and you knew he would make Iran weak again so USA could continue it's exploition.
Things go wrong, things don't always go right. The Hostage crises got a lot of enemies killed, beause "USA didn't have enough time to shred information on spies" and it allowed USA to freeze Iranian assets outside of Iran.
How did the Islamic revolution save American interests? Let's see: The nation is weak, thus you can continue exploit it. Iran was sent hundreds of years back. Personal interests as well (http://aryamehr.org/eng/carter/carter.htm)
No, the Shah was not a client and I am still not seeing anything that can prove me to me how he was a client of USA.
Either way, oh.. so you bring SAVAK into this. Right, what about your beautiful CIA who disappear people? Torture people? Kill people? Secret prisons in Europe, or do Americans not count?
He bought tanks, missiles, aircraft, ships - everything and anything, provided it contained the latest in state-of-the-art technology. Had he remained in power but two years longer, his Air Force would have become the third most powerful in the world. Already, by 1979, Iran had more modern combat aircraft than most European powers.
It's amazing how much lies you write, but I don't blame you as you seem like yet another uneducated western kid who probably get all your source from CNN and BBC without looking up yourself.
"Dr" Mossadegh was a bad politican, a dictator and a traitor who ruined Iran. Now you may ask, how? Well. First of all, Mossadegh wanted to close the parliament (he never got enough time). He forced women in Iran to wear Hijab again (So much for "democracy & freedom"). He nationalised the oil field? Guess what happened - Iran had zero money left, ZERO. I guess that's why you support "Mossadegh" because you wanted him to destroy Iran and you probably being a greedy western kid who want Iran to be a weak nation, it's not completely way off.
Now, western friendly Shah - I don't know what you are trying to say, but the Shah was friendly with everyone. Of course, he was a little bit more FRIENDLY (read FRIENDLY, not puppet) because of the communism threat. And no, he was Mossadegh was not "overthrown by a west-supported coup". Operation Ajax failed. (Once you give source for who says it happened, besides the CIA themselves - we can talk about my proof).
The Shah, loving his nation and his people - worked hard for Iran to progress and Iran progressed so much it spread fear in western nations. the Shah of Iran said that he is not going to RENEW the British oil contract in 1979 - and see what happened - "revolution" (If you don't get it, British and Americans overthrew him for making Iran independent). Either way, the Shah even refused to renew oil contracts in 1973 and 1976, pissing your nation off. He built dams, electric installations, roads, schools, industries etc for the nation to progress.
The Shah was then overthrown by the WESTERN NATIONS. So I am going to stop there.
Oh and, why did Iraq attack Iran? USA gave them the green light in order to: 1) Make Iran weak, Iran during Shah was very strong and 2) Unite people and make them forgot about all the secret stuff happening in Iran such as setting up the government, passing laws etc.
Another uneducated american who will hopefully prove to me how he was a puppet of USA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMftp2bdJA
It's ok. I can wait, leave a comment on my profile. I don't request evidence, just tell me how he was a puppet. What exactly did he do to become a puppet of USA. Perhaps by not giving Carter private property in Iran? http://aryamehr.org/eng/carter/carter.htm
Again, read my post above to learn. The only tyranny here is your nation leaders who have lied to their people that "democracy" exist, yeah right! Democracy? What? Mossadegh wanted democracy? I am sorry, are you just dumb or are you trying to ignore the fact that Mossadegh attempted to close the Iranian parliament and wanted to have six months of dictatorial powers? Please let me know! The CIA did not help the Shah - in fact the Shah was NEVER restored. He had always been the Shah, this time whoever he went on vacation to avoid a bloodbath, as always because he loved his people.
Haha wow. You talk so much.
Let's see, the Shah was a brutal despot? Wow. Interesting. How exactly was he a brutal despot? The fact that he made the people of Iran smarter? Built roads, electric installations, water dams? Provided food for the people? Donated his own land to farmers to end feudalism. He made Iran's economy of the the best, he built the 5th strongest non-nuclear army.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/world/1111
Read and learn. The Shah was not a despot, he was a patriot that loved his nation and wanted to stop YOU WESTERN PEOPLE from exploiting Iran's natural resources and it's people. He said he will NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES renew the 25 year old oil contract with the British in 1979, thus - you can see how he was overthrown by western powers.
US did not help anything. US hated the Shah.
Slashdot Mirror
blahblah.. the Shah was this, the Shah was that yet I can't say how. What about next time you accuse a good leader who wanted his country to become something, you say why you accuse that person? People was used in the "revolution" by western powers because the Shah was making Iran way too independant and not letting you western people continue exploiting Iran. (by, four doubling the oil prices, for example) Either way, only thing you got right is those Lebanse/Palestians attacking people because they don't feel anything.
Shows how much you know. Who is going to monitor the elections? What about those who have power and money enough to grab the power in middle of this? Your democracy is fake and an illusion, your government has fooled you and it's people with your attitude who destroy nations and peoples lives. Elections in Iran!? A theocracy who murders people for their beliefs? Torture people for their beliefs? Stoning etc. Just no.
Because I also listened to what Mousavi for example said for his defense and it made no sense. Mousavi also has a bad record which makes give it more credit. Mousavi-gang hardly managed to "bust" Ahmadinejad in any way in these debates either.
Apparently you have not followed the Iranian presidential debates as I have where Ahmadinejad exposed what a thief Mousavi is. Mousavi was the prime minister and ignored the executions and sometimes went as far as ordering executions. He did not resign or anything, he approved it too officially.
Who do you want to take the power then if Ahmadinejad leaves? Mousavi who is worse than Ahmadinejad? People have been stealing elections since 1979 in Iran - where were you then? Where were you when Islamic Republic were founded in Iran and started suppressing the Iranian people?
Please note people are using this opportunity to riot against the government as whole and not only because of the election results. Let's say the people riot, who is going to take control if Ahmadinejad is overthrown? Mousavi? Who was approved to candidate for presidency by Khamenie? They are all the same shit. People are being fooled. Regime change is the only solution, go away Islamic Republic. Please come democracy or/and constitutional monarchy.
It seems like we have a lot of happy westerns in the western world who have absolutely no idea what is going on and still act as if they are helping to make a "change" by setting up proxies, twitter accounts and such. You western people, please tell me, why you are supporting people, who are supporting Mousavi, who have murdered thousands of Iranians during his time as prime minister in Iran when Khamenie was president and the "supreme leader" was Khomeini?. Please tell me, why you support this thief who spent BILLIONS in election campaigns? Let's say the people riot, who is going to take control? Mousavi? Who was approved to candidate for presidency by Khamenie? They are all the same shit. People are being fooled. Regime change is the only solution, go away Islamic Republic. Please come democracy or/and constitutional monarchy.
Regime Change!
"But American oil interests in Iran were nationalized by the state after the revolution"
Not really. The Shah said in a speech that he will under no circumstances renew the British 25 year oil contract in 1979. At the same time he had "nationalized" the Iranian oil in 1973 by four-doubling the oil prices. This my friend, caused major inflation and problems in USA and UK specifically - so much trouble that Nixons secretary called the Shah "nuts". Many times this regime has bought arms fom Israel, done training exercises together and so. Cheap oil was sold to USA, the price was not the same price the Shah had put.
I still have not seen ANY evidence from those who claim the Shah was a puppet (which I will say, is it being a puppet when you 4x the oil prices and make others call you nuts?) but just because Khomeini was a puppet does not mean he should go out and say "LOL LOOK AT ME I AM A PUPPET", no. The idea was to make it look like he was not a puppet.
"I believe the Shah to have been an American client ruler"
I would like to know, perhaps you can be the first one ever to tell me exactly what he did for you to say he is an American client ruler?
"He got massive foreign aid and military hardware from the U.S., his army was trained by Americans and even his son Reza Pahlavi was trained as a fighter pilot in the U.S. air force. After leaving Iran during the revolution he lived in Panama and Egypt (both within the American sphere of influence) and the United States. His son Reza (who you perhaps regard as Reza Shah II?) has lived in the U.S. for the last 25 years."
That's something. There is a difference in being a puppet and working close to someone who has the same opinion and the same threat as you. The Russians ever since Ivan wanted to come near the warm waters of Persian Gulf. Russia even went as far as attempting to annex northern parts of Iran. Of course, Iran at World War I and II times being weak decided to do deals with another country (USA in this case, because they were nice and helped getting the Russians out of Iran during WW II)
Military hardware did not come free, the Shah bought it with the countries money and it was one of the greatest things he did. As you have you seen, the Iran-Iraq war was just a matter of time, at the same time the major Soviet threat from north and the Pakistan-India issue at that time! It was very wise to build up the military.
The Iranian army got (at the time Iran was very weak, with no functional army, say 1920 to 1940) help from the Americans - because you have to learn somewhere. This is not a matter of being puppet but working with other nations, USA did not help because they had "Installed the Shah" but because they helped so both USA and Iran can together fight the communist threat.
And if you have done successful deals, of course you continue doing more deals with te same nation. Do you honestly see "his son Reza pahlavi being traned as fighter pilot in the U.S. air force" as him being a puppet (the Shah).
After the "revolution" - the Shah was sick, tired, sad, angry and everything. He lost his country and had to think about all the innocent deaths, he didn't know where to live as for example USA didn't give him healthcare! He tried to go to a few other nations but Americans said no and the only reason he was in Egypt a lot was not because USA said so (because ofc, why didn't usa let him be in usa?) it was because Sadat (a great man) and worked very closely with the Shah, the Shah gave him free oil shipments when they needed it (later paid back, ofc) and so on. They did training exercises together and so on.
His son, which I do not see as "Reza Shah II" but later as a traitor who has ignored his nation, his fathers vision, his people. I have nothing to say and I can not defend him, but his son living in USA does not mean that the Shah was a american puppet, if he was in Norway, would be a norwegian puppet? He knew English, he perhaps had a apartment there and it was easier to go live somewh
I have read and it all seems to come from CIA whos job is to spread disinformation. What about you read the other side story a bit? Once you read these two parts, please come back as I have more articles, books and so on. http://aryamehr.org/eng/19august/19august.htm Sadly, western media do not want to show the other side.
Oh don't worry, if anything the CIA wins in the competition of killing, torturing, detainting, secret prisons and so on. And again, where are your responses to Mossadegh wanting to close the parliament? Is that more democract than the Shah who put Senate and Parliament in Iran?
Oh, one guy against milions of people. I guess if Iranian intelligence agency today says Obama is their puppet in a pdf document, you will be the first one to believe it. Right? There was nothing wrong with SAVAK, as any other security/intelligence agency it protected Iran many times from terrorists like Mujahedin, Tudeh and Communists and from the Russians. So, what about your CIA who has secret prisons in Europe and torture innocent people in USA? Shall we go into that.. or?
Oh. Interesting to see you use wikipedia, but I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. Since you just give me a link, I will give you one link that contains two links so you can read the other side: http://aryamehr.org/eng/19august/19august.htm No, we did not put theocrats in power. If you go through the events, there is no way. Explain why the American general Huyser visited Iran prior to the "revoluton" and talked to Iranian generals without the Shah knowing he was in Iran? Later it was exposed that Huyser told them to say "neutral" during the "revolution". Please read this: http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.de/Eurasien/Shah_of_Iran/shah_of_iran.html and http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/world/1111 to learn what really happened.
Yes. Khomeini was your puppet, because it was the only one you could find against the Shah and you knew he would make Iran weak again so USA could continue it's exploition. Things go wrong, things don't always go right. The Hostage crises got a lot of enemies killed, beause "USA didn't have enough time to shred information on spies" and it allowed USA to freeze Iranian assets outside of Iran. How did the Islamic revolution save American interests? Let's see: The nation is weak, thus you can continue exploit it. Iran was sent hundreds of years back. Personal interests as well (http://aryamehr.org/eng/carter/carter.htm) No, the Shah was not a client and I am still not seeing anything that can prove me to me how he was a client of USA. Either way, oh.. so you bring SAVAK into this. Right, what about your beautiful CIA who disappear people? Torture people? Kill people? Secret prisons in Europe, or do Americans not count?
He bought tanks, missiles, aircraft, ships - everything and anything, provided it contained the latest in state-of-the-art technology. Had he remained in power but two years longer, his Air Force would have become the third most powerful in the world. Already, by 1979, Iran had more modern combat aircraft than most European powers.
It's amazing how much lies you write, but I don't blame you as you seem like yet another uneducated western kid who probably get all your source from CNN and BBC without looking up yourself. "Dr" Mossadegh was a bad politican, a dictator and a traitor who ruined Iran. Now you may ask, how? Well. First of all, Mossadegh wanted to close the parliament (he never got enough time). He forced women in Iran to wear Hijab again (So much for "democracy & freedom"). He nationalised the oil field? Guess what happened - Iran had zero money left, ZERO. I guess that's why you support "Mossadegh" because you wanted him to destroy Iran and you probably being a greedy western kid who want Iran to be a weak nation, it's not completely way off. Now, western friendly Shah - I don't know what you are trying to say, but the Shah was friendly with everyone. Of course, he was a little bit more FRIENDLY (read FRIENDLY, not puppet) because of the communism threat. And no, he was Mossadegh was not "overthrown by a west-supported coup". Operation Ajax failed. (Once you give source for who says it happened, besides the CIA themselves - we can talk about my proof). The Shah, loving his nation and his people - worked hard for Iran to progress and Iran progressed so much it spread fear in western nations. the Shah of Iran said that he is not going to RENEW the British oil contract in 1979 - and see what happened - "revolution" (If you don't get it, British and Americans overthrew him for making Iran independent). Either way, the Shah even refused to renew oil contracts in 1973 and 1976, pissing your nation off. He built dams, electric installations, roads, schools, industries etc for the nation to progress. The Shah was then overthrown by the WESTERN NATIONS. So I am going to stop there. Oh and, why did Iraq attack Iran? USA gave them the green light in order to: 1) Make Iran weak, Iran during Shah was very strong and 2) Unite people and make them forgot about all the secret stuff happening in Iran such as setting up the government, passing laws etc.
Iran WAS a modern secular state. IRAN could compete with many European nations back then! We had a strong industry, we have great education system. The national currency was stable for 15 years, inspiring French economist André Piettre to call Iran a country of âoegrowth without inflation.". Our military was the 5th strongest and our airforce was the 3rd strongest. Iran was an awesome nation!. Mossadegh was not a "democracy lover". He wanted to close the parliament, he printed bills with his own face on it thus breaking the Iranian currency, he forced women to wear hijab again (this was during February) and he left the Iranian treasury empty forcing the Shah to build Iran again from beginning! You didn't back the Shah in any way (PS: I can later go into how awesome your nation is, maybe we should go into all the torture you do yourself and then attack the Shah for). Operation Ajax did not happen. And guess what, the Shah of Iran said that he is not going to RENEW the British oil contract in 1979 - and see what happened - "revolution" (If you don't get it, British and Americans overthrew him for making Iran independent). Either way, the Shah even refused to renew oil contracts in 1973 and 1976, pissing your nation off. So please, next time you write - don't go on wikipedia where a bunch of uneducated americans hang out together writing stuff to make them feel like journalists. Regards
Another uneducated american who will hopefully prove to me how he was a puppet of USA? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMftp2bdJA It's ok. I can wait, leave a comment on my profile. I don't request evidence, just tell me how he was a puppet. What exactly did he do to become a puppet of USA. Perhaps by not giving Carter private property in Iran? http://aryamehr.org/eng/carter/carter.htm
Again, read my post above to learn. The only tyranny here is your nation leaders who have lied to their people that "democracy" exist, yeah right! Democracy? What? Mossadegh wanted democracy? I am sorry, are you just dumb or are you trying to ignore the fact that Mossadegh attempted to close the Iranian parliament and wanted to have six months of dictatorial powers? Please let me know! The CIA did not help the Shah - in fact the Shah was NEVER restored. He had always been the Shah, this time whoever he went on vacation to avoid a bloodbath, as always because he loved his people.
Haha wow. You talk so much. Let's see, the Shah was a brutal despot? Wow. Interesting. How exactly was he a brutal despot? The fact that he made the people of Iran smarter? Built roads, electric installations, water dams? Provided food for the people? Donated his own land to farmers to end feudalism. He made Iran's economy of the the best, he built the 5th strongest non-nuclear army. http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/world/1111 Read and learn. The Shah was not a despot, he was a patriot that loved his nation and wanted to stop YOU WESTERN PEOPLE from exploiting Iran's natural resources and it's people. He said he will NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES renew the 25 year old oil contract with the British in 1979, thus - you can see how he was overthrown by western powers. US did not help anything. US hated the Shah.