Were you born with a penis and YX chromosomes? If yes, then you're a man and always will be.
Were you born with a vagina and XX cromosomes? If yes, then you're a woman and always will be.
You're free to "feel" anything you like, but the rest of us don't have to create a safe space for you to do so.
Do you agree, then, with the NC law that will force this guy to use the ladies' room? Oh? You forgot there are female-to-male trans people?
People who do that have to be willing to accept that the world will forever be a challenge for them. Extreme minorities of all types are always in that place, doesn't matter what it is.
The problem for that guy is that if he walks into the ladies room, he'll have the same problem as real men would. If he walks into the men's room, likely no one will know or care.
Likewise, men who have changed into women like Caytlin Jenner likely can use the woman's room unnoticed, law or no law. Frankly she could pass me on the street and I'd probably take no notice, since I don't actually care about such things in general.
I would notice if she walked into the men's room, but since I am a man, I'm not remotely threatened by that. The reverse is not true.
It is simply women that need protecting, they are the fairer sex and a man's job is to create a world safe for women.
And that isn't sexist, I'm physically much stronger than my wife, so my job is to always treat her gently and with respect as the mother of my children and to stand between her and anything that might hurt her.
Some will call that old fashioned, but frankly it worked well for thousands of years, shame so many of you are in a hurry to give that up.
You are missing the point because you are focusing on such a specific scenario because it's the only one that supports your argument. A rapist could easily hide in a bathroom and wait for someone to show up - probably happens a lot. A rapist could easily enter a bathroom after someone has already gone in - probably happens a lot. A rapist could easily do a dozen other things that aren't made any less difficult by allowing transgender people to fully be their gender in society.
Yes, a rapist can do all those things, and right now, if my wife walks in and finds such a man, she can safely assume they are either REALLY lost, or a "bad person".
But if you add transgender to that list, if a man walks in and claims to be one, is he? How does she know? Does she have to wait until it is too late to find out?
The trans person's desire to have access to the ladies room does not trump her right to be secure and safe in there.
You're trying to give him special privilege at the cost of hers.
That's the whole point of a Republic: to organize things in such a way that the majority cannot simply declare X and have the minority follow it, that the minority have mechanisms for having things work for them too, in a way that's well balanced and fair for all.
Yes, except this isn't fair or balanced at all.
The safety and security of 50% of the population is, frankly, more important than the needs of 0.2% of the population. Trying to grant what they want does place in danger the 50%, thus it isn't worth it.
sometimes a gay couple purchases a cake
Different topic, but I fully support the rights of a private business to serve or not anyone at their pleasure. Rights against discrimination should be enforced against public agencies, government, but you're free to go shop elsewhere.
bearded guy stops in the middle of the street to pray
The street is a public place, that is his right (so long as he isn't blocking traffic)
a mother breastfeeds her baby in the bus
Is it a public bus? If so, then she has the right to do that. Is it a private bus? Then the company has the right to restrict that.
A Republic is democratic but it isn't a Democracy. Learn the difference.
I am well aware of the difference, sadly too many people are not.
Why do you think Trump is doing so well? The silent majority are bloody sick and tired of the pandering to the minority. The only reason Trump doesn't have even more support is aside from that, 40% of the population is firmly Democrat and hasn't even given him a look, or they are opposed to his economic viewpoints.
I think most Americans have no problem with equal rights for all, but if the screaming loud minorities don't learn when to speak and when to shut up about it, they are going to face a backlash at somepoint.
Look at the shock and horror the media and others expressed when Trump suggested banning all Muslims (frankly an impossible task since Muslim is not a race, just looking at someone doesn't tell you their religion). He went UP in the polls.
Many people feel like their way of life is being destroyed by a small number of people who want to change everything to suit them.
Too bad you don't follow your own advice and insist on denying a minority equal rights under law.
When that minority wants rights that will trample on the majority, then they aren't asking for equal rights, they are asking for special rights that only apply to them and ignore everyone else.
No, whats messed up in the head is someone who is, theoretically at least, American saying that "equal rights for a minority is a violation of the rights of the majority".
No, that isn't it at all, but nice diversion to try and frame it for your own purposes...
Try this:
"Lets trample on women's freedom and safety in order to appease an extreme minority"
You want to oppress the majority to serve the very, very extreme minority (and this is a very small group of people).
so she's as big an ignorant bigot as you, and would also advocate or use violence against someone based on -HER- judgment of someone's identity?
No, the problem is you didn't bother to read, you just skimmed it, made an assumption, and jumped to the reply.
Let me repeat, hopefully you read this time:
Man walks into ladies room, my wife say "you're in the ladies room, please leave", he replies, "I can go where I want, deal with it lady". He is standing between her and the door.
He is now a threat, a man who isn't where he belongs, responding in an aggressive tone to a woman in a confined space blocking the exit.
His "identity" isn't remotely a factor. He could be trans, straight, or an alien, at that moment in time, my wife would be utterly indifferent to which of those turned out to be true.
Of those, most of them probably haven't come out due to fear of people like you.
So what kind of person am I?
You've formed a judgement without knowing. Which is fine, we all do it, but keep in mind, you may be wrong.
I wonder what your daughters would think about this.
I teach my children that all people are worthly and deserve love and respect, right up until they do something to hurt other people.
People who are "different" from us are not to be hurt or shamed, but respected for their differences, even if we think they are "weird".
All people were made in God's image, so if someone is gay, or whatever, that's ok, God loves them too and so should we.
That is why I support gay marriage, even if I think being gay is weird. The two don't have to oppose each other. I think Ellen being gay is weird. But I don't hate her, she is not a threat to me and she should be allowed to live her life in peace free from fear.
Men walking into a girl's only bathroom behind my daughter? That I draw a line at.
You were already talking about the rare cases, intersex people. And flatly saying they should all (or "generally") count as male, at least where bathrooms are concerned. Even though, within that small set of people we're talking about, a large percent of them are much closer to female than they are male. That's ridiculous.
Allow me to point you back at the central point, since you just love dragging it off to some random or obscure corner of the issue to try and hide from reality.
No one but women should go into women's rest rooms.
A women is someone who was born one, not a man who "feels like one".
If you don't like that, well tough, because if a man walks into a woman's rest room, the women have the right to ask him to leave, to call the cops, or to (after he refuses to leave), defend themselves if needed.
It is simple. You can try and make it as complex as you like, but you're just dodging reality when you do so.
So you now do get the distinction between sex and gender? Or are you still lost there? I hope not.
Yes, yes, you think you're funny...
The point, of course, went right over your head... but that isn't a shock, way too many liberals have ideas that work great in text books but utterly fail in the real world...
I don't know how narrowminded and naive you have to be to think legally allowing trans-gendered people into women's washrooms is the equivalent of socially allowing anybody to go into any washroom.
It is, but you are again trying to defend the indefensible...
A trans-gendered person doesn't have to have surgery, now do they. No, they only have to "feel like the other gender".
You think men who are looking to rape and harm women were just taking advantage of the fact that the law before didn't specify that you were required to use bathrooms that match the gender on their birth certificate rather than their gender identity?
No, you aren't reading, or you don't care. Either way, you simply don't want to hear it.
Go back and reread what I wrote, or don't and live in ignorance if you wish.
Setting aside that you're conflating sex and gender: did you seriously just suggest that all (or at least most) intersex people should be lumped together with males? Including the woman with abnormally large, penis-like clitoris, but otherwise female appearance in every way? Including the woman who was born with a vagina and a normal-sized clitoris and grew breasts and puberty and apparently female in every way but happens to have XY chromosomes and a genetic insensitivity to androgens?
You're trying to find the exception to try and justify your position.
One or two random cases out of a million does not defend your position, rather the reverse.
The basic point is that men do not have the right to walk into the ladies room. It begins and ends there.
But it seems that in your fever to try and defend the indefensible, you're really reaching for straws.
Or mind her own business until someone does something genuinely threatening to her.
A man walking into a woman's restroom is doing just that.
First she says "excuse me, you're in the ladies room".
Normal men will say "oh gosh, so sorry, and rush out the door in embarrassment".
Men up to no good will not. Those are the threats.
Her irrational fear of someone just because of their sex does not justify assault, and especially does not justify state-aided assault, abduction, and confinement.
No, you're wrong and mistaken...
What you are actually saying is that if a man were to walk into her home, where he doesn't belong, then she shouldn't assume he is a "bad guy" until he actually touches her.
She feels threatened by a man in a place he does not belong, when asked to leave, he refuses. Self-defense is justified at that point.
PayPal has made it very clear: there are 49 other states that will gladly accept our proposition to employ hundreds of high skilled knowledge workers. Your tax incentives are by no means exclusive to the state.
PayPal sucks as a company anyway, no major loss there.
And frankly, if this is their "values", then they aren't wanted. Please don't come to Texas either.
Seriously, I don't know what people like you do when you go to the bathroom, but transsexuals, gay people and even blacks pretty much just go to do their business, wash their hands, and then leave.
I'm sure they do, and I frankly don't care.
Simply use the bathroom that you are supposed to.
Girls use the girls bathroom and boys use the boys bathroom.
Your wife is fine with men walking into the ladies room, then being asked to leave, and refusing?
She is an idiot if that is true.
Just like the Muslims right?
Nice strawman... try again...
Big bad guy gonna let his gun do the talking.
No, bad girl, my wife is a better shot than me.
If you are a man and walk into the ladies room behind her, she is likely to ask you to leave, unless she is able to safely leave herself, which is always the best course of action, it avoids a fight.
But if he is between her and the door and she says "please leave, this is the ladies room", and he responds with some wisecrack about "I can do whatever the hell I want", then yea, she may well shoot him.
He is behaving in a threatening manner and shouldn't be at all shocked if he gets shot.
Since these men were born girls, I take it you'd rather they share the women's room with your wife and daughter?
I'd rather they stayed home, the whole thing is FUBAR.
Or should they also be shot? "Man entering restroom" and all that.
People should be shot when they are behaving in a threatening manner towards other people and do not respond to verbal commands to back off and leave.
Example: If you walk into my home, even if the door is wide open, and I say, "excuse me, this is my home, please leave", and you refuse, guess what? You're getting shot.
Now if you turn around and run away, no, I would not shoot you, you responded to commands to leave a place you do not belong.
The moment we theoretically separate the concept of 'gender' out from sex it becomes a logical possibility for biological sex and cultural gender to become inversely aligned.
When you feel like looking up from a book and joining the real world, let me know.
It is sort of like the people who try to argue the situation in Israel based on logic, history, and such.
No one in the middle east cares. Or at least the people in charge clearly don't.
---
So let me put this into simple words that everyone should be able to understand.
"People born with a dick should not being going into the ladies room"
Slashdot Mirror
You also don't have any rational reasons for your argument.
You are wrong.
I do not want a man walking into the ladies room behind my wife or daughter.
I couldn't care less if they are gay, straight, trans, or alien.
That is a rational concern and rational reason.
they're not trying to change anything for the majority.
they just want the same rights as everyone else.
No, you're wrong.
They want the right for men to go into the ladies room.
I don't have that right and neither should they.
let me be clear: if you're not willing to give minorities the same rights you enjoy, then you ARE AGAINST THEM.
I have the right to go into the ladies room? I'm a straight male, so now you're saying that is ok?
Yea, it isn't. That means that I'm not trying to take away their rights, just enforce the same standards on everyone.
That's all transsexuals want, too.
Yes, but you can't change your gender.
If you were born a girl, a girl you'll always be.
If you were born a boy, a boy you'll always be.
Cutting off your penis or sewing one on doesn't change that.
I think this is a false dichotomy. Transitioning from oppressing a minority to not oppressing a minority doesn't automatically oppress the majority.
In theory you're correct.
In reality, you're not.
Or do you REALLY think I could hold a "straight-pride" parade and not get ripped to shreds in the media?
How about a NAAWP organisation? (National Association for the Advancement of White People)
How well would THAT go over?
That is why you are correct in theory, but not in reality.
The law doesn't say that he has the right to use the bathroom unless he identifies as a woman.
What is so sad is that you see nothing wrong with that.
I suspect there is nothing I could say to help you, because your brain has so twisted this around that you're beyond help.
2) Women who feel unsafe because of trannies are being idiots, because there's no evidence that they should do so. Try statistics, people.
Try reading comprehension. It isn't trannies that are the problem, it is straight men who want to hurt a woman.
You can't tell the difference by just looking, so baring all men from the ladies room is the only reasonable solution.
Yes, except I'm not a man.
Were you born with a penis and YX chromosomes? If yes, then you're a man and always will be.
Were you born with a vagina and XX cromosomes? If yes, then you're a woman and always will be.
You're free to "feel" anything you like, but the rest of us don't have to create a safe space for you to do so.
Do you agree, then, with the NC law that will force this guy to use the ladies' room? Oh? You forgot there are female-to-male trans people?
People who do that have to be willing to accept that the world will forever be a challenge for them. Extreme minorities of all types are always in that place, doesn't matter what it is.
The problem for that guy is that if he walks into the ladies room, he'll have the same problem as real men would. If he walks into the men's room, likely no one will know or care.
Likewise, men who have changed into women like Caytlin Jenner likely can use the woman's room unnoticed, law or no law. Frankly she could pass me on the street and I'd probably take no notice, since I don't actually care about such things in general.
I would notice if she walked into the men's room, but since I am a man, I'm not remotely threatened by that. The reverse is not true.
It is simply women that need protecting, they are the fairer sex and a man's job is to create a world safe for women.
And that isn't sexist, I'm physically much stronger than my wife, so my job is to always treat her gently and with respect as the mother of my children and to stand between her and anything that might hurt her.
Some will call that old fashioned, but frankly it worked well for thousands of years, shame so many of you are in a hurry to give that up.
Are you really this stupid in real life, or did you take lessons?
Under your plan, a woman has to accept men in the ladies room and has no idea if they belong there or not.
Under the existing plan, she can assume from the first second that there is a problem and take action, the first of which is to ask him to leave.
You are creating a problem for women, even if your brain can't see it.
You are missing the point because you are focusing on such a specific scenario because it's the only one that supports your argument. A rapist could easily hide in a bathroom and wait for someone to show up - probably happens a lot. A rapist could easily enter a bathroom after someone has already gone in - probably happens a lot. A rapist could easily do a dozen other things that aren't made any less difficult by allowing transgender people to fully be their gender in society.
Yes, a rapist can do all those things, and right now, if my wife walks in and finds such a man, she can safely assume they are either REALLY lost, or a "bad person".
But if you add transgender to that list, if a man walks in and claims to be one, is he? How does she know? Does she have to wait until it is too late to find out?
The trans person's desire to have access to the ladies room does not trump her right to be secure and safe in there.
You're trying to give him special privilege at the cost of hers.
That's the whole point of a Republic: to organize things in such a way that the majority cannot simply declare X and have the minority follow it, that the minority have mechanisms for having things work for them too, in a way that's well balanced and fair for all.
Yes, except this isn't fair or balanced at all.
The safety and security of 50% of the population is, frankly, more important than the needs of 0.2% of the population. Trying to grant what they want does place in danger the 50%, thus it isn't worth it.
sometimes a gay couple purchases a cake
Different topic, but I fully support the rights of a private business to serve or not anyone at their pleasure. Rights against discrimination should be enforced against public agencies, government, but you're free to go shop elsewhere.
bearded guy stops in the middle of the street to pray
The street is a public place, that is his right (so long as he isn't blocking traffic)
a mother breastfeeds her baby in the bus
Is it a public bus? If so, then she has the right to do that. Is it a private bus? Then the company has the right to restrict that.
A Republic is democratic but it isn't a Democracy. Learn the difference.
I am well aware of the difference, sadly too many people are not.
Why do you think Trump is doing so well? The silent majority are bloody sick and tired of the pandering to the minority. The only reason Trump doesn't have even more support is aside from that, 40% of the population is firmly Democrat and hasn't even given him a look, or they are opposed to his economic viewpoints.
I think most Americans have no problem with equal rights for all, but if the screaming loud minorities don't learn when to speak and when to shut up about it, they are going to face a backlash at somepoint.
Look at the shock and horror the media and others expressed when Trump suggested banning all Muslims (frankly an impossible task since Muslim is not a race, just looking at someone doesn't tell you their religion). He went UP in the polls.
Many people feel like their way of life is being destroyed by a small number of people who want to change everything to suit them.
transgender is a very broad word, encompassing several situations.
so sounds like you're in need of some terminology lessons.
No, because it isn't material to the point.
Men, males, people born with a penis, should not go into the ladies room.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with trans/gay/anything.
Too bad you don't follow your own advice and insist on denying a minority equal rights under law.
When that minority wants rights that will trample on the majority, then they aren't asking for equal rights, they are asking for special rights that only apply to them and ignore everyone else.
No, whats messed up in the head is someone who is, theoretically at least, American saying that "equal rights for a minority is a violation of the rights of the majority".
No, that isn't it at all, but nice diversion to try and frame it for your own purposes...
Try this:
"Lets trample on women's freedom and safety in order to appease an extreme minority"
You want to oppress the majority to serve the very, very extreme minority (and this is a very small group of people).
so she's as big an ignorant bigot as you, and would also advocate or use violence against someone based on -HER- judgment of someone's identity?
No, the problem is you didn't bother to read, you just skimmed it, made an assumption, and jumped to the reply.
Let me repeat, hopefully you read this time:
Man walks into ladies room, my wife say "you're in the ladies room, please leave", he replies, "I can go where I want, deal with it lady". He is standing between her and the door.
He is now a threat, a man who isn't where he belongs, responding in an aggressive tone to a woman in a confined space blocking the exit.
His "identity" isn't remotely a factor. He could be trans, straight, or an alien, at that moment in time, my wife would be utterly indifferent to which of those turned out to be true.
Of those, most of them probably haven't come out due to fear of people like you.
So what kind of person am I?
You've formed a judgement without knowing. Which is fine, we all do it, but keep in mind, you may be wrong.
I wonder what your daughters would think about this.
I teach my children that all people are worthly and deserve love and respect, right up until they do something to hurt other people.
People who are "different" from us are not to be hurt or shamed, but respected for their differences, even if we think they are "weird".
All people were made in God's image, so if someone is gay, or whatever, that's ok, God loves them too and so should we.
That is why I support gay marriage, even if I think being gay is weird. The two don't have to oppose each other. I think Ellen being gay is weird. But I don't hate her, she is not a threat to me and she should be allowed to live her life in peace free from fear.
Men walking into a girl's only bathroom behind my daughter? That I draw a line at.
You were already talking about the rare cases, intersex people. And flatly saying they should all (or "generally") count as male, at least where bathrooms are concerned. Even though, within that small set of people we're talking about, a large percent of them are much closer to female than they are male. That's ridiculous.
Allow me to point you back at the central point, since you just love dragging it off to some random or obscure corner of the issue to try and hide from reality.
No one but women should go into women's rest rooms.
A women is someone who was born one, not a man who "feels like one".
If you don't like that, well tough, because if a man walks into a woman's rest room, the women have the right to ask him to leave, to call the cops, or to (after he refuses to leave), defend themselves if needed.
It is simple. You can try and make it as complex as you like, but you're just dodging reality when you do so.
So you now do get the distinction between sex and gender? Or are you still lost there? I hope not.
Yes, yes, you think you're funny...
The point, of course, went right over your head... but that isn't a shock, way too many liberals have ideas that work great in text books but utterly fail in the real world...
Let me know when you're ready to live in reality.
I don't know how narrowminded and naive you have to be to think legally allowing trans-gendered people into women's washrooms is the equivalent of socially allowing anybody to go into any washroom.
It is, but you are again trying to defend the indefensible...
A trans-gendered person doesn't have to have surgery, now do they. No, they only have to "feel like the other gender".
You think men who are looking to rape and harm women were just taking advantage of the fact that the law before didn't specify that you were required to use bathrooms that match the gender on their birth certificate rather than their gender identity?
No, you aren't reading, or you don't care. Either way, you simply don't want to hear it.
Go back and reread what I wrote, or don't and live in ignorance if you wish.
Setting aside that you're conflating sex and gender: did you seriously just suggest that all (or at least most) intersex people should be lumped together with males? Including the woman with abnormally large, penis-like clitoris, but otherwise female appearance in every way? Including the woman who was born with a vagina and a normal-sized clitoris and grew breasts and puberty and apparently female in every way but happens to have XY chromosomes and a genetic insensitivity to androgens?
You're trying to find the exception to try and justify your position.
One or two random cases out of a million does not defend your position, rather the reverse.
The basic point is that men do not have the right to walk into the ladies room. It begins and ends there.
But it seems that in your fever to try and defend the indefensible, you're really reaching for straws.
Or mind her own business until someone does something genuinely threatening to her.
A man walking into a woman's restroom is doing just that.
First she says "excuse me, you're in the ladies room".
Normal men will say "oh gosh, so sorry, and rush out the door in embarrassment".
Men up to no good will not. Those are the threats.
Her irrational fear of someone just because of their sex does not justify assault, and especially does not justify state-aided assault, abduction, and confinement.
No, you're wrong and mistaken...
What you are actually saying is that if a man were to walk into her home, where he doesn't belong, then she shouldn't assume he is a "bad guy" until he actually touches her.
She feels threatened by a man in a place he does not belong, when asked to leave, he refuses. Self-defense is justified at that point.
PayPal has made it very clear: there are 49 other states that will gladly accept our proposition to employ hundreds of high skilled knowledge workers. Your tax incentives are by no means exclusive to the state.
PayPal sucks as a company anyway, no major loss there.
And frankly, if this is their "values", then they aren't wanted. Please don't come to Texas either.
What good reason?
Really? You're asking? You don't know?
Frankly, this is one of those "if I have to explain it to you, then you wouldn't understand" type of things.
How many women have been assaulted by a transgendered person?
Don't know, don't care. Lots and lots and LOTS of women have been assaulted by men.
As a public safety issue, this bigoted, North Carolina law is a terrible thing.
No, as a public safely issue, this is the right thing to do.
What I can't understand is why the left is so in favor of making women less safe?
Seriously, I don't know what people like you do when you go to the bathroom, but transsexuals, gay people and even blacks pretty much just go to do their business, wash their hands, and then leave.
I'm sure they do, and I frankly don't care.
Simply use the bathroom that you are supposed to.
Girls use the girls bathroom and boys use the boys bathroom.
See, now was that so hard?
I asked my wife and she's fine with it.
Your wife is fine with men walking into the ladies room, then being asked to leave, and refusing?
She is an idiot if that is true.
Just like the Muslims right?
Nice strawman... try again...
Big bad guy gonna let his gun do the talking.
No, bad girl, my wife is a better shot than me.
If you are a man and walk into the ladies room behind her, she is likely to ask you to leave, unless she is able to safely leave herself, which is always the best course of action, it avoids a fight.
But if he is between her and the door and she says "please leave, this is the ladies room", and he responds with some wisecrack about "I can do whatever the hell I want", then yea, she may well shoot him.
He is behaving in a threatening manner and shouldn't be at all shocked if he gets shot.
Since these men were born girls, I take it you'd rather they share the women's room with your wife and daughter?
I'd rather they stayed home, the whole thing is FUBAR.
Or should they also be shot? "Man entering restroom" and all that.
People should be shot when they are behaving in a threatening manner towards other people and do not respond to verbal commands to back off and leave.
Example: If you walk into my home, even if the door is wide open, and I say, "excuse me, this is my home, please leave", and you refuse, guess what? You're getting shot.
Now if you turn around and run away, no, I would not shoot you, you responded to commands to leave a place you do not belong.
A man does not belong in a woman's restroom.
The moment we theoretically separate the concept of 'gender' out from sex it becomes a logical possibility for biological sex and cultural gender to become inversely aligned.
When you feel like looking up from a book and joining the real world, let me know.
It is sort of like the people who try to argue the situation in Israel based on logic, history, and such.
No one in the middle east cares. Or at least the people in charge clearly don't.
---
So let me put this into simple words that everyone should be able to understand.
"People born with a dick should not being going into the ladies room"
Ok, did anyone get lost there? I hope not.