Before I read your post I was merrily proceeding trying to license my Smalltalk packages under the GPL..
Now I guess I am looking for an alternative.
I wish that you would in detail outline your reasoning with links to your resources.
Also, it seems like to me that there may be a few ways to skin a cat that you are not recognising?/aware of?
Is it not the case that one can divide one's commercial app based on GPL code into two sections? One that is open source and one that is closed source. The code that calls or activates the GPL lib stuff must be made available to your customers. or is it that you do not need to open source the code that calls the GPL lib but you must distribute any changes you make to the lib?:As in directly modifying GPL subroutines? But subroutines that you add to the lib don't need to have source distributed? Anyway, assuming that you must distribute source on anything that calls or activates GPL code, you can still hide your proprietary stuff by making a seperate program B that works closely together with the GPL dependent program A. These programs can communicate via files at the very least. And because of Disk caches this shouldn't be too slow. Perhaps pipes and such could also be used just so long as program B does not call A and tell it to activate GPL code. I do this kind of thing in my own code using the Clipboard as the user simple means of communications between some methods where the user can jump in there if desired. The user can cobble functions together in different ways because they communicate via the Clipboard.
If I am not wrong the GPL doesn't bar this?
My idea was that companies who want to make commercial programs using my lib would have to ( under the GPL provide source code( or even better a special Smalltalk image ) to any methods that they make that call my GPLed code either directly or indirectly.
But code that doesn't call my lib methods can remain closed and be hidden in the image. Thus a user might be able to get the required copy of Dolphin Smalltalk load up the special image, and see and modify the code that calls my code. Thus they could add their own user interface to it and add their own custom addons. And since they would also know hopefully the data being set up for the hidden Program B part to consume they would also be able to customize it's functioning too.
If this is what the GPL provides then I guess I will go with the GPL( but I will try to read the others too. Maybe I like them better. ). Also-: Just because you are required to distribute your source code doesn't mean that you have to distribute usable source code. You can put a scrambler on it that adds misleading variable names and comments that are wrong. In effect, if the code is big enough, it becomes completely unmaintainable. There were some Smalltalk open source progams like that. Why bother trying to modify them. You might as well start from scratch.
ALSO-: There is a completely open source( but restricted distribution ) futures trading program written in Quick Basic that I know of that uses nothing but two letter variable names. And not that many comments either. It is about 400 to 800 lines long. Totally useless. Don't even try it. Many have tried and failed. Hackers and "Software Engineering" types have looked at it to no avail. We all threw up our hands and said that we might as well make a new one from scratch. If only we knew how. Now, it could be that we are not true hackers who can unsnarl raw Assembler in their sleep that was written by 1000 gibbering apes, who were also in their sleep when they wrote it, at the time, but I sir, am not one of those. And I have never actually met any who were neither. Although I did hear of one. Who took an assembler code where every third line was a jump so when you mapped out all the jumps graphically, every inch of code looked like a really snarly hair do. But I am not one of those. And as far as I can tell, most coders are not one of those neither, fer nothin. And he only succeeded because he was an expert at what that driver thing was trying to do.
Anyway
Your help is really appreciated. The Smalltalk Open Source Investing Trading Platform effort thanks you in advance.
Are there any examples of GPLed Smalltalk source code?
-kego
links: Get free Dolphin Smalltalk 2.1 at-: http://www.object-arts.com/Home.htm
PS-: ( I thought that a few of the responses to your posts down below were a bit shrill and vitriolic. Like screaming stuck liberals or something. Ahh youth. When you are young if you are not liberal: You have got no heart. When you are older if you are not conservative: You have got no brain. )
Slashdot Mirror
Now that is a hit load of links.
For Winblows XP(ectorate) Customer Service
Just call 1-800-EAT-SHIT
Microshaft Winblows
Hi Brett
Before I read your post I was merrily proceeding trying to license my Smalltalk packages under the GPL..
Now I guess I am looking for an alternative.
I wish that you would in detail outline your reasoning with links to your resources.
Also, it seems like to me that there may be a few ways to skin a cat that you are not recognising?/aware of?
Is it not the case that one can divide one's commercial app based on GPL code into two sections? One that is open source and one that is closed source. The code that calls or activates the GPL lib stuff must be made available to your customers. or is it that you do not need to open source the code that calls the GPL lib but you must distribute any changes you make to the lib?:As in directly modifying GPL subroutines? But subroutines that you add to the lib don't need to have source distributed? Anyway, assuming that you must distribute source on anything that calls or activates GPL code, you can still hide your proprietary stuff by making a seperate program B that works closely together with the GPL dependent program A. These programs can communicate via files at the very least. And because of Disk caches this shouldn't be too slow. Perhaps pipes and such could also be used just so long as program B does not call A and tell it to activate GPL code. I do this kind of thing in my own code using the Clipboard as the user simple means of communications between some methods where the user can jump in there if desired. The user can cobble functions together in different ways because they communicate via the Clipboard.
If I am not wrong the GPL doesn't bar this?
My idea was that companies who want to make commercial programs using my lib would have to ( under the GPL provide source code( or even better a special Smalltalk image ) to any methods that they make that call my GPLed code either directly or indirectly.
But code that doesn't call my lib methods can remain closed and be hidden in the image. Thus a user might be able to get the required copy of Dolphin Smalltalk load up the special image, and see and modify the code that calls my code. Thus they could add their own user interface to it and add their own custom addons. And since they would also know hopefully the data being set up for the hidden Program B part to consume they would also be able to customize it's functioning too.
If this is what the GPL provides then I guess I will go with the GPL( but I will try to read the others too. Maybe I like them better. ).
Also-: Just because you are required to distribute your source code doesn't mean that you have to distribute usable source code. You can put a scrambler on it that adds misleading variable names and comments that are wrong. In effect, if the code is big enough, it becomes completely unmaintainable. There were some Smalltalk open source progams like that. Why bother trying to modify them. You might as well start from scratch.
ALSO-: There is a completely open source( but restricted distribution ) futures trading program written in Quick Basic that I know of that uses nothing but two letter variable names. And not that many comments either. It is about 400 to 800 lines long. Totally useless. Don't even try it. Many have tried and failed. Hackers and "Software Engineering" types have looked at it to no avail. We all threw up our hands and said that we might as well make a new one from scratch. If only we knew how. Now, it could be that we are not true hackers who can unsnarl raw Assembler in their sleep that was written by 1000 gibbering apes, who were also in their sleep when they wrote it, at the time, but I sir, am not one of those. And I have never actually met any who were neither. Although I did hear of one. Who took an assembler code where every third line was a jump so when you mapped out all the jumps graphically, every inch of code looked like a really snarly hair do. But I am not one of those. And as far as I can tell, most coders are not one of those neither, fer nothin. And he only succeeded because he was an expert at what that driver thing was trying to do.
Anyway
Your help is really appreciated. The Smalltalk Open Source Investing Trading Platform effort thanks you in advance.
Are there any examples of GPLed Smalltalk source code?
-kego
links: Get free Dolphin Smalltalk 2.1 at-:
http://www.object-arts.com/Home.htm
PS-: ( I thought that a few of the responses to your posts down below were a bit shrill and vitriolic. Like screaming stuck liberals or something. Ahh youth. When you are young if you are not liberal: You have got no heart. When you are older if you are not conservative: You have got no brain. )