I was not talking about an order that seems to be illegal, but simply about the case where it is illegal (plain for anybody to see), which is for instance to send unsolicited email to a competitors customers after having procured their email addresses in a way that does not appear legit (see the original posters request). It says 'received', but not by what route. If the sender simply made a mistake then that's not very smart on their part, which could remove at least one part of the illegality, but it would still leave wide open the fact that his boss apparently plans to send UCE to people that he has absolutely no business mailing to.
If in your legislature that is a legal operation then the above obviously does not apply to you, but then again I wasn't specifically talking to / about you but addressing the general case of spamming competitors lists of customers that you have no business of having in the first place.
In most places that would be inviting a lawsuit at a minimum and possibly (depending on the source of the list, most companies do not go out of their way to mail lists of their customers to their competitors) a criminal charge.
Any half decent company wouldn't even touch such a list with a 10' pole for fear of being sued, the fact that the boss of the OP actually considers this strategy is a telltale of the morals at that company. That's not something you're going to correct with just some more information or discussion. The fact that the 'boss' needs to be explained why this is a bad idea (tm) is really bordering on unbelievable, but that's what the OP writes. The travel business is highly dependent on the internet these days and the fact that the boss does not think spamming is a bad idea is quite strange to me.
What's legal and what's not is not up for grabs here, you're supposed to know the law of the land even if you're not a lawyer. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.
Just like murder is illegal and telling someone so does not constitute legal advice.
Of course, the OP came to/. with his answers (and anonymous at that), he could have just as easily gone to a competent lawyer and spent some $, no doubt the quality of the advice would have gone up.
I'd walk. I think that's the only professional attitude to take in this case.
It's like being in the military, if you are given an illegal order you are *obliged* not to follow it, asking your buddies to explain to the co why you don't want to follow the order doesn't really cut it. If it's illegal that's the end of the discussion right there. After that point your only options are jail time or excuting the illegal order.
In business life you can fortunately also quit and go somewhere else.
Spam is illegal period. The OP indicates that he's aware that it's illegal but comes to/. for ammo on telling his boss not to do it. The simple fact that it's illegal should be enough ammo for anybody.
If your boss does not think that's enough then walk.
Discussing the issue beyond 'did you know it's illegal?', 'Yes, but we'll do it anyway' is pointless, at that point no amount of discussion is going to repair my view of the company to the point where I'd want to continue to work for them.
If this is just a line manager you could consider going whistle blower on him.
We're not discussing different ideas / paths towards some implementation, we're discussing something that's illegal.
If you're going to stay on with a company that does illegal things knowingly and willingly then that's your own responsibility.
Anybody that claims that they are not aware of the legal situation (and the nuisance of) regarding spam is probably not worth working for anyway.
Nothing extremist about it, the fact that the OP is looking for 'arguments against his boss' that wants to spam is already sketching a situation that makes me wonder.
If I had my tinfoil hat on I'd twist it around to 'these people use./ to see if there are things they should guard against before some massive spam campaign that they haven't thought of themselves'... but that's probably too farfetched. I hope...
I think the simple fact that spam campaigns still exist are proof positive that (unfortunately) plenty of people still read spam.
Spam will only go away when people really stop responding, as long as the %age of users that falls for it is measurable I don't think spam will go away. In fact it will simply get worse and worse to make up for the degree to which it no longer functions.
After all the spammers have this sense of being 'entitled' to a certain amount of income. If they sent out a million emails last year in a campaign and made 10K and this year they'll make only 5 they will simply double the size of the list to make up for the perceived loss.
So, at the risk of blowing my karma for the next 200 years:
Either do the job or quit.
Seriously. You got hired to do his bidding, if he wants to spam let him reap the consequences, make careful note of your objections. Then also admit you're a tool.
And if you can't live with that then grow some backbone and quit. There has to be other employment for someone with your skills.
ok, so your experience does not match mine. I have two friends with HTC phones/organizers (the windows variety), both are less than 6 months old and have had to have their batteries replaced, even when new they don't last much over 6 hours.
can you have a look at your battery and tell me if it has any markings on it that would help me to identify the batch/manufacturer ? Then I'd scrounge around for a set of those, I'm sure I'd have two very happy friends:)
there was a *much* older nokia phone with a slide that exposed a good size keyboard, a friend of mine used it quite a bit to keep an eye on a large serverfarm.
But I don't see anybody coding up the next installment of gcc on these keyboards:)
And the speed with which some of my (female) friends can SMS using the shorthand method is simply amazing.
Personally I use my phone to call with, the camera function is nice to have (and a better camera would be a good reason to upgrade the phone) but after playing with the internet features a bit I really don't find much use for them.
The 'qwerty' bit is nice (same as with the blackberry) but it would not be enough to get me to switch (and the keys will be *even smaller*).
or better still, when you see RolandP take a weeks break from/.
(at the current RolandP posting frequency that would mean./ will soon only consist of the editors and Roland...)
What really gets me is that I get suckered in all the time to just take the stories one by one without checking who posted them and after reading the summary I sort of get this sinking feeling, check back and sure enough... It's like being rickrolled only worse.
Have you ever actually seen a shipping container up close ?
They're made from sheets with lots of patterning, plenty of room for a dozen cellphones per rib if you feel like it. And if you nicely paint your phone containing blister in the same scheme as the rest of the container it will be pretty much invisible, unless you inspect it really closely.
And if that doesn't give you enough room try this:
If you managed to airburst one the damage from the blast would be less but the fall-out damage and affected area could be much larger than what's mentioned in the video.
23 Kg small enough for you ? Maybe by 'taking out' you mean to level the whole thing but I think just exploding one of these from the top of a high building would be enough to destroy Manhattan in an economical sense.
All it takes is a buddy in the luggage handling section.
Airports are so leaky it isn't even funny, all the window dressing with 'passenger screening' up front is just to reassure you, it doesn't make you any more safe.
Think about it, multiple millions of tons of stuff moves in / out a major airport every day, there is just simply no way to manually inspect each and every bit. Added to that the fact that usually there is major construction going on because of expansion and remodeling, which causes security measures to be changed all the time.
And 70 Kg in your hand luggage may seem like a lot, but on a baggage trolley it's very little and once you're in the airport you could do a serious amount of damage blowing it to bits right there and then. The combination of suicide attacks coupled with small nukes would be pretty effective.
same here. We tried faking it by decoding the elite status file but after the third layer of encryption we hit a message that said: "Does your mother know you're doing this ?", which means we were more or less meant to get to that level (and it took weeks), we gave up after that...
I really think Braben and Bell should deserve this honour well ahead of the cut & paste 2d gaming crews with the exception of Jeff Minter possibly (but I don't think he was British).
Slashdot Mirror
I was not talking about an order that seems to be illegal, but simply about the case where it is illegal (plain for anybody to see), which is for instance to send unsolicited email to a competitors customers after having procured their email addresses in a way that does not appear legit (see the original posters request). It says 'received', but not by what route. If the sender simply made a mistake then that's not very smart on their part, which could remove at least one part of the illegality, but it would still leave wide open the fact that his boss apparently plans to send UCE to people that he has absolutely no business mailing to.
/. with his answers (and anonymous at that), he could have just as easily gone to a competent lawyer and spent some $, no doubt the quality of the advice would have gone up.
If in your legislature that is a legal operation then the above obviously does not apply to you, but then again I wasn't specifically talking to / about you but addressing the general case of spamming competitors lists of customers that you have no business of having in the first place.
In most places that would be inviting a lawsuit at a minimum and possibly (depending on the source of the list, most companies do not go out of their way to mail lists of their customers to their competitors) a criminal charge.
Any half decent company wouldn't even touch such a list with a 10' pole for fear of being sued, the fact that the boss of the OP actually considers this strategy is a telltale of the morals at that company. That's not something you're going to correct with just some more information or discussion. The fact that the 'boss' needs to be explained why this is a bad idea (tm) is really bordering on unbelievable, but that's what the OP writes. The travel business is highly dependent on the internet these days and the fact that the boss does not think spamming is a bad idea is quite strange to me.
What's legal and what's not is not up for grabs here, you're supposed to know the law of the land even if you're not a lawyer. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.
Just like murder is illegal and telling someone so does not constitute legal advice.
Of course, the OP came to
You're probably right, I still have the (antiquated) view in my head that the spammers are the people selling the products.
I'd walk. I think that's the only professional attitude to take in this case.
/. for ammo on telling his boss not to do it. The simple fact that it's illegal should be enough ammo for anybody.
It's like being in the military, if you are given an illegal order you are *obliged* not to follow it, asking your buddies to explain to the co why you don't want to follow the order doesn't really cut it. If it's illegal that's the end of the discussion right there. After that point your only options are jail time or excuting the illegal order.
In business life you can fortunately also quit and go somewhere else.
Spam is illegal period. The OP indicates that he's aware that it's illegal but comes to
If your boss does not think that's enough then walk.
Discussing the issue beyond 'did you know it's illegal?', 'Yes, but we'll do it anyway' is pointless, at that point no amount of discussion is going to repair my view of the company to the point where I'd want to continue to work for them.
If this is just a line manager you could consider going whistle blower on him.
We're not discussing different ideas / paths towards some implementation, we're discussing something that's illegal.
If you're going to stay on with a company that does illegal things knowingly and willingly then that's your own responsibility.
Anybody that claims that they are not aware of the legal situation (and the nuisance of) regarding spam is probably not worth working for anyway.
./ to see if there are things they should guard against before some massive spam campaign that they haven't thought of themselves'... but that's probably too farfetched. I hope...
Nothing extremist about it, the fact that the OP is looking for 'arguments against his boss' that wants to spam is already sketching a situation that makes me wonder.
If I had my tinfoil hat on I'd twist it around to 'these people use
I think the simple fact that spam campaigns still exist are proof positive that (unfortunately) plenty of people still read spam.
Spam will only go away when people really stop responding, as long as the %age of users that falls for it is measurable I don't think spam will go away. In fact it will simply get worse and worse to make up for the degree to which it no longer functions.
After all the spammers have this sense of being 'entitled' to a certain amount of income. If they sent out a million emails last year in a campaign and made 10K and this year they'll make only 5 they will simply double the size of the list to make up for the perceived loss.
So, at the risk of blowing my karma for the next 200 years:
Either do the job or quit.
Seriously. You got hired to do his bidding, if he wants to spam let him reap the consequences, make careful note of your objections. Then also admit you're a tool.
And if you can't live with that then grow some backbone and quit. There has to be other employment for someone with your skills.
thank you for taking the time & trouble to dig that up, next time I'm in Amsterdam I'll have a good look at what is in those phones.
I'll see your moose antlers / stag beetles and raise you stone tablets...
very interesting read, thank you!
ok, so your experience does not match mine. I have two friends with HTC phones/organizers (the windows variety), both are less than 6 months old and have had to have their batteries replaced, even when new they don't last much over 6 hours.
:)
can you have a look at your battery and tell me if it has any markings on it that would help me to identify the batch/manufacturer ? Then I'd scrounge around for a set of those, I'm sure I'd have two very happy friends
htc phones have just about the worst battery life (both usage-per-charge and total battery life span) of any phones I've seen.
Another nice 'feature' is that nobody seems to stock spare batteries.
hehe, a wolf that is sharpening his nails to points will have me go the opposite direction :)
I'm trying to remember when I last used an actual typewriter but I can't pinpoint it any better than 1982 or so...
there was a *much* older nokia phone with a slide that exposed a good size keyboard, a friend of mine used it quite a bit to keep an eye on a large serverfarm.
./ thread:
here is an image of what the phone looked like:
http://www.mobileburn.com/media/nokia/9300/9300_open-IMG_9425.jpg
also there is this old
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/08/0214240&tid=215
spot on the guy 'barence' actually links to a page of his *own* 'pcpro' site!
But I don't see anybody coding up the next installment of gcc on these keyboards :)
And the speed with which some of my (female) friends can SMS using the shorthand method is simply amazing.
Personally I use my phone to call with, the camera function is nice to have (and a better camera would be a good reason to upgrade the phone) but after playing with the internet features a bit I really don't find much use for them.
The 'qwerty' bit is nice (same as with the blackberry) but it would not be enough to get me to switch (and the keys will be *even smaller*).
where did you read/hear that these were actually used in WW2 ? It was developed in the 50's, the war ended (at least in my country) in 1945...
;)
And the warhead itself was 23 Kg, see the linked wikipedia article.
Fubar'ed indeed
So, no, we're not all mutants, hairless or suffering leukemia, but it was not *because* of the use of the Crockett that we're not.
or better still, when you see RolandP take a weeks break from /.
./ will soon only consist of the editors and Roland...)
(at the current RolandP posting frequency that would mean
What really gets me is that I get suckered in all the time to just take the stories one by one without checking who posted them and after reading the summary I sort of get this sinking feeling, check back and sure enough... It's like being rickrolled only worse.
Have you ever actually seen a shipping container up close ?
They're made from sheets with lots of patterning, plenty of room for a dozen cellphones per rib if you feel like it. And if you nicely paint your phone containing blister in the same scheme as the rest of the container it will be pretty much invisible, unless you inspect it really closely.
And if that doesn't give you enough room try this:
http://www.universalgroup.com.au/images/containers/20(2FT).jpg
The only thing spec'd about a container is the supporting edge, not the space within the frame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khyZI3RK2lE
interesting video about this device
If you managed to airburst one the damage from the blast would be less but the fall-out damage and affected area could be much larger than what's mentioned in the video.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
23 Kg small enough for you ? Maybe by 'taking out' you mean to level the whole thing but I think just exploding one of these from the top of a high building would be enough to destroy Manhattan in an economical sense.
All it takes is a buddy in the luggage handling section.
Airports are so leaky it isn't even funny, all the window dressing with 'passenger screening' up front is just to reassure you, it doesn't make you any more safe.
Think about it, multiple millions of tons of stuff moves in / out a major airport every day, there is just simply no way to manually inspect each and every bit. Added to that the fact that usually there is major construction going on because of expansion and remodeling, which causes security measures to be changed all the time.
And 70 Kg in your hand luggage may seem like a lot, but on a baggage trolley it's very little and once you're in the airport you could do a serious amount of damage blowing it to bits right there and then. The combination of suicide attacks coupled with small nukes would be pretty effective.
array of fpga's
http://www.copacobana.org/
don't mess with Raven, he's a nuclear power
same here. We tried faking it by decoding the elite status file but after the third layer of encryption we hit a message that said: "Does your mother know you're doing this ?", which means we were more or less meant to get to that level (and it took weeks), we gave up after that...
I really think Braben and Bell should deserve this honour well ahead of the cut & paste 2d gaming crews with the exception of Jeff Minter possibly (but I don't think he was British).
I move to nominate David Braben and Ian Bell