"Sorry, I don't buy that. "Hi, this is chuck, the webmaster. Can I have the names of our russian agents please?""
I always find it amusing when people try to make the CIA/FBI/NSA out to be bumbling idiots. They're not perfect, but they are really f'ing good.
In fact, if someone brought that weak 'social engineering' their way, it wouldn't surprise me if they were logged, traced, then given a visit by a couple really solemn-looking men in bad suits and dark sunglasses that smelled like pistachios.
I dare even one of the cynical know-it-all people that read this board to try it. Be sure to post your results so we can laugh at your cornholing.
"So, why isn't the US friends with Cuba, Vietnam, the Taliban etc.?"
Cuba - We've never been to war with Cuba. If we did, it would last all of 1, maybe 2 days. And we are warming up to Cuba. I guess you didn't read about the food shipments we allowed over a few months ago after they got hit by a hurricane. First time in decades.
Vietnam - our relations with Vietnam are greatly improved. We're almost friendly with them, and vice versa.
Taliban (Afghanistan) - We're not done, yet. The Afghani people will enjoy life a great deal more once the Taliban/al Qaeda and their ilk are completely destroyed.
Like the Romans, when we conquer, we provide a better way of life.
By 'better' I don't mean our culture, necessarily. But food and medicine are always good.
"Making war is only rarely going to/stop/ war, either in the short term or in the long term - in the long term, it'll breed ever more terrorists: people who are willing to die in order to kill as many of/your/ civilians as they can."
You mean like it didn't work with Japan? Or Germany? Or Italy? Or Vietnam? Or Britain?
With Korea, you have a point. But if adequate force is applied, war does work.
I included Vietnam, because now neither country gives a shit about the other. The lesson works both ways. Even when we 'lose'. In fact, read up about Vietnamese students in U.S. schools. They are thriving. We're *almost* friends with Vietnam. We certainly aren't enemies anymore.
Yes, but I'm certain you are the oracle at Delphi.
"There are otherways to destroy such things. You shit."
Really? A small pox factory? Completely? The only way to be 100% certain, aside from taking control of the lab by a ground assault (which would give the people in the lab ample time to steal samples or just release the shit into the wild or onto the soldiers) is by cauderizing the area with a nuke. You shit.
"I don't care if you were in the army."
Marines, fuckhead.
"your a typical arrogant American."
And you're the typical enlightened, yet humble, foreigner, right?
"You drop one Nuke and World War III begins and thats the end of the story."
Depends on whose story. It won't be the end of America's.
"keep your American views to yourself."
Pfffft. Give me a reason. Or better yet, give me a superior view.
"In Baghdad are living around 4 million people. You like to nuke them?"
No. But I don't want to die, or even have my life threatened. So, if the Iraqi people, or any other people of any other country, can't reign in their own government, or an organization inside their borders, and that entity threatens me, fuck 'em.
Seriously. They can all die. Every last one of them.
If they can't control their own wild dogs, what the fuck do you expect the U.S. to do when one of them bites? Sit back and wait? Fuck them.
If it ever comes down to it, and the option is something along the lines of ablating Baghdad, or all of Iraq for that matter, versus watching the inhabitants of New York die (again)... bye-bye Iraq.
People always argue from the status quo, or at least from what they think the status quo is. Assuming no other country currently has the capability and will to launch a nuclear/biological attack on the U.S., that does not mean they won't 10 or 20 years from now. Pakistan wasn't always a nuclear power. Now they are. Things change.
Russia has the capability, but not the will. They aren't religious zealot cuntrags like the merry band of Koran-thumpers that are currently being turned into maggot food.
Those people have the will, but not the ability. Hopefully, they will lose the will before they have the ability. Otherwise, we will turn that fucking sandpit shithole into the world's largest mirror.
AND I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
They want us to back down? Then they need to take care of their own mess. If they are unwilling or unable, that is simply too fucking bad. Put up your dukes, get the fuck out of the way, or die.
"overhyped. definately. speaking of the forces in general, of course. but even your little SF wank is not quite true; we have allies (eg brit) with SF which are more capable..."
Where do people like you get your reasoning from?
You think Brits, or any other foreigners for that matter, are just naturally better soldiers than Americans?
Get your head out of your ass.
Americans are well fed. We have unlimited facilities to train and exercise in. Genetically, we are 25% German blood, followed by Irish then British blood. Not a pussy race to be found. (French blood accounts for 8% of American lineage, but my guess is we got the rowdy 8%)
And we also have a very large breeding pool, meaning more candidates that are suitable for this type of work.
We train as hard as anyone. I've trained with British SAS (Desert Patrol) and RoK Marines. Yes, they're hard core. But they don't outclass Force Recon/SEALs/Delta Force.
Technologically, we are far ahead of everyone else. You should see the shit in the labs at Quantico. It would blow you away, literally.
What exactly makes you think Americans are somehow inferior warriors? Even in Vietnam, a war we 'lost', the kill ratio was 12:1, and it's only gone up, since.
Americans will go down in history, for better or worse, as some of the baddest mother fuckers that ever walked the planet.
I agree with what you are saying. But the reason I stated my 'credentials' is because in this community, a Comp. Sci. degree w/ high-end certs and a job dealing with UNIX gets you accepted more readily than a relatively clueless outsider. Just ask Jon Katz.
However, the vast majority (95+%) of 'computer people' I know have never been in the military. Many of them arrogantly think it's beneath them.
So, when I hear them ramble on about our 'shitty' military, it makes me want to RIP OUT THEIR EYEBALLS AND SKULLFUCK THEM!
Well, maybe not that exactly, but you know what I mean.
If I would have come on like a gun-slinging Kill-'em-All-and-Let-God-Sort-'em-Out cowboy, w/o stating some credentials, I would have offended more people than you.
Can't please everyone. Especially not the 'dumb peacenik hippy dippies':)
Assuming he's alive (I hope he is - I want to see his body - not imagine it under a pile of rubble) and he gets a nation to sell him a nuke or gets scientists to build him one, that still isn't superior firepower.
Now, if as a representative of an Arab state, he build a long-range nuclear arsenal comparable, or even better than ours, yes. To a degree, it would buy that country peace.
I'm (oddly enough) not a warmonger. But I'm not a war-hater, either. I view it as a means to an end. An awful, but effective tool.
Unless the entire population of the world simultaneously adopts a Tibetan way of life, it is wise to keep arms. The shrewd man is the last one to drop his gun.
"big fucking deal. you were a little peon in the most overfunded, overhyped force on earth. woo, i am soooooo impressed."
There are at least 3 glaring errors in this statement.
1 - I was a rather large peon, not that you could have known.
2 - The Marines are notoriously underfunded. We basically get the Navy's leftovers and some Army scraps.
3 - Overhyped? HAH! Don't let MoA fool you. The U.S. has some pure psychopaths in their military. Be happy they're in the service and not on the street. Black-souled people if I've ever met them. And they are as skilled as a person gets in warfare. They cower from no one. I'm assuming you were referring to the U.S. military in general, as opposed to Force Recon. Because if you were singling out Force Recon, or even the Marines as being overhyped, you're a fucking idiot.
"the US military is...biggest bully...and...offense spending...are hardly going to win us any friends."
Uh-huh. In case you haven't noticed, nothing we do makes us any friends, aside from bombing the fuck out of them. Germany, Japan, Italy - BOMBED. Now, all are our allies. Go figure. Some people need the Ike Turner treatment.
"the only...reason for going back into iraq...is that saddam embarrased the hell out of bush senior, and so shrub wants to make amends."
We killed more of our own troops by accident than Iraqi forces did intentionally. Yeah, they really embarrased us...
The long-term effects of radiation aren't as bad as some people would have you think. It doesn't take thousands of years to make the area liveable.
It would be nice if there was a conventional explosive without any long-term residuals, but unfortunately there isn't (yet).
Check this out for a study done by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare on the inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Basically, people in the initial blast zone are (obviously) fucked. Survivor's offspring will show a huge spike in cases of leukemia, and small spikes in other cancer types. The grandchildren of survivors show close to baseline birth defects, meaning nothing statistically significant.
And these are people living on the actual ground that is contaminated.
This study could be bullshit, but it's done by a Japanese organization, along with the U.S.
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to be apologetic for my desire to live and distrust of nations that have shown time and time and time again that they aren't really very nice people.
But, I'm not sorry. In fact, I'm quite happy about this. Let's say we find a small pox lab in Iraq. We know they have it. They know we know. What's to stop them from using it?
A 50-megaton nuke pointed at Baghdad, that's what.
For fuck's sake wake up and smell the truth. The world is not , has never been, nor probably ever will be a nice place. Peace is purchased with superior firepower.
NEVER forget that.
Knunov
B.S. in Comp. Sci from UNC@Chapel Hill - Oracle DBA, Novell CNE, and UNIX/Linux/BSD administrator/user/enthusiast. I was also a Captain in the U.S.M.C., MOS - Infantry - Force Recon, 1st Battalion.
So, unlike the vocal majority of computer geeks here, this geek actually has a clue about warfare.
You mean like Japan, who after having 2 Made in the U.S.A. nukes dropped on their heads, are one of our best business partners as well as political allies?
There is something to be said for an adequate use of force.
We are different species, and the only reason we aren't classified as such is politics.
There are lizards that are virtually identical, interior and exterior, yet they are classified as different species.
You seriously look as Black, White and Asian people and see the same thing?
Bullshit. Unmitigated bullshit.
You have the eyes of a sociologist, not a scientist.
I'm not saying this should matter, but we should acknowledge the fact that people are different. It should immediately be followed with the acknowledgement that all that matters is behavior.
I'd rather hang out with a bunch of kind, intelligent, White folks than a gang of my 8-Ball drinkin', crack smokin', home invading Black 'bruthas'.
I know it isn't politically correct to say such things, but that's one of the main reasons I love science. It has no room nor desire for political correctness.
And before you oversensitive liberals MOD me into oblivion, know this: I'M BLACK
Slashdot Mirror
0. Websites will revolutionize the way people do business
1. Houston, We Have a Problem, Part 1: Enron
Knunov
"Why, pray tell, would they smell of pistachios?"
What else would you eat during a stakeout?
Knunov
Pay attention, smackass. I was agreeing with him. Using sarcasm, he was saying essentially the same thing: "They aren't that stupid."
"Sorry, I don't buy that. "Hi, this is chuck, the webmaster. Can I have the names of our russian agents please?""
I always find it amusing when people try to make the CIA/FBI/NSA out to be bumbling idiots. They're not perfect, but they are really f'ing good.
In fact, if someone brought that weak 'social engineering' their way, it wouldn't surprise me if they were logged, traced, then given a visit by a couple really solemn-looking men in bad suits and dark sunglasses that smelled like pistachios.
I dare even one of the cynical know-it-all people that read this board to try it. Be sure to post your results so we can laugh at your cornholing.
Knunov
All empires fall. Just ask the Ottomans.
And it's better to be a has-been than a never-was.
Now you're just being silly.
"So, why isn't the US friends with Cuba, Vietnam, the Taliban etc.?"
Cuba - We've never been to war with Cuba. If we did, it would last all of 1, maybe 2 days. And we are warming up to Cuba. I guess you didn't read about the food shipments we allowed over a few months ago after they got hit by a hurricane. First time in decades.
Vietnam - our relations with Vietnam are greatly improved. We're almost friendly with them, and vice versa.
Taliban (Afghanistan) - We're not done, yet. The Afghani people will enjoy life a great deal more once the Taliban/al Qaeda and their ilk are completely destroyed.
Like the Romans, when we conquer, we provide a better way of life.
By 'better' I don't mean our culture, necessarily. But food and medicine are always good.
Knunov
How many Taliban/al Qaeda/whoever-the-fuck do you think have blown themselves up stepping on their own land mines? None?
Fuckhead.
They simply don't track friendly casualties, and if they did, they wouldn't release them to the public.
Knunov
"The only reason Japan didn't reply with a nuclear attack off their own is because they DIDN'T HAVE NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES..."
That's not the point. The point is, even after an atrocity like a nuclear strike, it's still possible to befriend a nation.
It was the idea that war only breeds more enemies that I'm refuting.
Knunov
"Making war is only rarely going to /stop/ war, either in the short term or in the long term - in the long term, it'll breed ever more terrorists: people who are willing to die in order to kill as many of /your/ civilians as they can."
You mean like it didn't work with Japan? Or Germany? Or Italy? Or Vietnam? Or Britain?
With Korea, you have a point. But if adequate force is applied, war does work.
I included Vietnam, because now neither country gives a shit about the other. The lesson works both ways. Even when we 'lose'. In fact, read up about Vietnamese students in U.S. schools. They are thriving. We're *almost* friends with Vietnam. We certainly aren't enemies anymore.
Knunov
"You are so naive."
Yes, but I'm certain you are the oracle at Delphi.
"There are otherways to destroy such things. You shit."
Really? A small pox factory? Completely? The only way to be 100% certain, aside from taking control of the lab by a ground assault (which would give the people in the lab ample time to steal samples or just release the shit into the wild or onto the soldiers) is by cauderizing the area with a nuke. You shit.
"I don't care if you were in the army."
Marines, fuckhead.
"your a typical arrogant American."
And you're the typical enlightened, yet humble, foreigner, right?
"You drop one Nuke and World War III begins and thats the end of the story."
Depends on whose story. It won't be the end of America's.
"keep your American views to yourself."
Pfffft. Give me a reason. Or better yet, give me a superior view.
(crickets)
Thought so.
Knunov
"In Baghdad are living around 4 million people. You like to nuke them?"
No. But I don't want to die, or even have my life threatened. So, if the Iraqi people, or any other people of any other country, can't reign in their own government, or an organization inside their borders, and that entity threatens me, fuck 'em.
Seriously. They can all die. Every last one of them.
If they can't control their own wild dogs, what the fuck do you expect the U.S. to do when one of them bites? Sit back and wait? Fuck them.
If it ever comes down to it, and the option is something along the lines of ablating Baghdad, or all of Iraq for that matter, versus watching the inhabitants of New York die (again)... bye-bye Iraq.
People always argue from the status quo, or at least from what they think the status quo is. Assuming no other country currently has the capability and will to launch a nuclear/biological attack on the U.S., that does not mean they won't 10 or 20 years from now. Pakistan wasn't always a nuclear power. Now they are. Things change.
Russia has the capability, but not the will. They aren't religious zealot cuntrags like the merry band of Koran-thumpers that are currently being turned into maggot food.
Those people have the will, but not the ability. Hopefully, they will lose the will before they have the ability. Otherwise, we will turn that fucking sandpit shithole into the world's largest mirror.
AND I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
They want us to back down? Then they need to take care of their own mess. If they are unwilling or unable, that is simply too fucking bad. Put up your dukes, get the fuck out of the way, or die.
Our safety comes first. Deal with it.
Knunov
"overhyped. definately. speaking of the forces in general, of course. but even your little SF wank is not quite true; we have allies (eg brit) with SF which are more capable..."
Where do people like you get your reasoning from?
You think Brits, or any other foreigners for that matter, are just naturally better soldiers than Americans?
Get your head out of your ass.
Americans are well fed. We have unlimited facilities to train and exercise in. Genetically, we are 25% German blood, followed by Irish then British blood. Not a pussy race to be found. (French blood accounts for 8% of American lineage, but my guess is we got the rowdy 8%)
And we also have a very large breeding pool, meaning more candidates that are suitable for this type of work.
We train as hard as anyone. I've trained with British SAS (Desert Patrol) and RoK Marines. Yes, they're hard core. But they don't outclass Force Recon/SEALs/Delta Force.
Technologically, we are far ahead of everyone else. You should see the shit in the labs at Quantico. It would blow you away, literally.
What exactly makes you think Americans are somehow inferior warriors? Even in Vietnam, a war we 'lost', the kill ratio was 12:1, and it's only gone up, since.
Americans will go down in history, for better or worse, as some of the baddest mother fuckers that ever walked the planet.
Knunov
I agree with what you are saying. But the reason I stated my 'credentials' is because in this community, a Comp. Sci. degree w/ high-end certs and a job dealing with UNIX gets you accepted more readily than a relatively clueless outsider. Just ask Jon Katz.
:)
However, the vast majority (95+%) of 'computer people' I know have never been in the military. Many of them arrogantly think it's beneath them.
So, when I hear them ramble on about our 'shitty' military, it makes me want to RIP OUT THEIR EYEBALLS AND SKULLFUCK THEM!
Well, maybe not that exactly, but you know what I mean.
If I would have come on like a gun-slinging Kill-'em-All-and-Let-God-Sort-'em-Out cowboy, w/o stating some credentials, I would have offended more people than you.
Can't please everyone. Especially not the 'dumb peacenik hippy dippies'
Knunov
I thought I read, "...new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly retarded user interface."
doh!
Knunov
Assuming he's alive (I hope he is - I want to see his body - not imagine it under a pile of rubble) and he gets a nation to sell him a nuke or gets scientists to build him one, that still isn't superior firepower.
Now, if as a representative of an Arab state, he build a long-range nuclear arsenal comparable, or even better than ours, yes. To a degree, it would buy that country peace.
I'm (oddly enough) not a warmonger. But I'm not a war-hater, either. I view it as a means to an end. An awful, but effective tool.
Unless the entire population of the world simultaneously adopts a Tibetan way of life, it is wise to keep arms. The shrewd man is the last one to drop his gun.
Knunov
"big fucking deal. you were a little peon in the most overfunded, overhyped force on earth. woo, i am soooooo impressed."
There are at least 3 glaring errors in this statement.
1 - I was a rather large peon, not that you could have known.
2 - The Marines are notoriously underfunded. We basically get the Navy's leftovers and some Army scraps.
3 - Overhyped? HAH! Don't let MoA fool you. The U.S. has some pure psychopaths in their military. Be happy they're in the service and not on the street. Black-souled people if I've ever met them. And they are as skilled as a person gets in warfare. They cower from no one. I'm assuming you were referring to the U.S. military in general, as opposed to Force Recon. Because if you were singling out Force Recon, or even the Marines as being overhyped, you're a fucking idiot.
"the US military is...biggest bully...and...offense spending...are hardly going to win us any friends."
Uh-huh. In case you haven't noticed, nothing we do makes us any friends, aside from bombing the fuck out of them. Germany, Japan, Italy - BOMBED. Now, all are our allies. Go figure. Some people need the Ike Turner treatment.
"the only...reason for going back into iraq...is that saddam embarrased the hell out of bush senior, and so shrub wants to make amends."
We killed more of our own troops by accident than Iraqi forces did intentionally. Yeah, they really embarrased us...
Knunov
The long-term effects of radiation aren't as bad as some people would have you think. It doesn't take thousands of years to make the area liveable.
It would be nice if there was a conventional explosive without any long-term residuals, but unfortunately there isn't (yet).
Check this out for a study done by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare on the inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Basically, people in the initial blast zone are (obviously) fucked. Survivor's offspring will show a huge spike in cases of leukemia, and small spikes in other cancer types. The grandchildren of survivors show close to baseline birth defects, meaning nothing statistically significant.
And these are people living on the actual ground that is contaminated.
This study could be bullshit, but it's done by a Japanese organization, along with the U.S.
Knunov
They hadn't surrendered yet, jackass. Now, if you said one nuke would have been sufficient, I would have agreed.
As for what an adequate use of force can get you, take a look.
Knunov
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to be apologetic for my desire to live and distrust of nations that have shown time and time and time again that they aren't really very nice people.
But, I'm not sorry. In fact, I'm quite happy about this. Let's say we find a small pox lab in Iraq. We know they have it. They know we know. What's to stop them from using it?
A 50-megaton nuke pointed at Baghdad, that's what.
For fuck's sake wake up and smell the truth. The world is not , has never been, nor probably ever will be a nice place. Peace is purchased with superior firepower.
NEVER forget that.
Knunov
B.S. in Comp. Sci from UNC@Chapel Hill - Oracle DBA, Novell CNE, and UNIX/Linux/BSD administrator/user/enthusiast. I was also a Captain in the U.S.M.C., MOS - Infantry - Force Recon, 1st Battalion.
So, unlike the vocal majority of computer geeks here, this geek actually has a clue about warfare.
"I have to ask... what has North Korea and Russia been doing lately to deserve this?"
I have to ask, what makes you think you know everything that goes on in Russia, Korea or anywhere else behind closed doors?
Maybe people aren't as nice as you think.
Knunov
You mean like Japan, who after having 2 Made in the U.S.A. nukes dropped on their heads, are one of our best business partners as well as political allies?
There is something to be said for an adequate use of force.
Knunov
"Forget taping up LEDs or living in a metal box - now you might have to do without sunlight to be secure!"
What's this 'sunlight' I keep hearing about?
Knunov
We are different species, and the only reason we aren't classified as such is politics.
There are lizards that are virtually identical, interior and exterior, yet they are classified as different species.
You seriously look as Black, White and Asian people and see the same thing?
Bullshit. Unmitigated bullshit.
You have the eyes of a sociologist, not a scientist.
I'm not saying this should matter, but we should acknowledge the fact that people are different. It should immediately be followed with the acknowledgement that all that matters is behavior.
I'd rather hang out with a bunch of kind, intelligent, White folks than a gang of my 8-Ball drinkin', crack smokin', home invading Black 'bruthas'.
Knunov
"As you go from east to west the individuals change slightly, but can still interbreed (which is, more or less, the definition of what a species is)."
Not really. Ever hear of a liger?
It's a cross between a lion and a tiger. Two distinctly unique species can interbreed.
Horse + burro = jackass.
Severum (Heros Severus) + Red Devil (Amphilophus Labiatum) = Blood Parrot Fish.
There are several other examples of different species interbreeding.
Most commonly this happens with humans.
Caucasians, Mongoloids and Negroids interbreed more prolifically than any other group of species.
I know it isn't politically correct to say such things, but that's one of the main reasons I love science. It has no room nor desire for political correctness.
And before you oversensitive liberals MOD me into oblivion, know this: I'M BLACK
Knunov