And I don't really see your connection. What exactly do you mean by your relating TV manipulation and personal liberties? Are you saying that we have freedoms but are being pushed and prodded by the consumer culture? That we are automatons who have the freedom to do what we want, as long as it is from Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger (sp)?? If that's the case, then again, I don't think you're giving us enough credit.
Actually what I said is posted. It goes back to people like Erich Fromm in 1941, hardly new. Unless people choose to step outside the box, they let themselves be herded into conformity. It's so easy because without making a concrete choice to do otherwise, one is indeed just going along. And the folks being targeted by large corporations' legal flunkies, folks like those at 2600, are among those who step outside the box.
OK, that much I posted last round. Now I'll add something: we have a myth in our (American) society of how independent and individual we all are. The tough and independent Marlboro Man lighting up. Right. The group of people who read and post on a venue such as slashdot are (IMHO) more likely to think outside the mainstream culture than a lot of other collections of people, but the fact remains that our consumer culture runs deep. Look at Wired Magazine, which went from being a pretty innovative publication in its first year to being a sort of cybercultural GQ today. It's a very slippery slope, because American mass culture coopts and digests; this is why many educated folks abroad despise it even as they partake of it.
Am I idealizing the French or anyone else? Hell no. The French elite think Jerry Lewis is one of the most brilliant people of all time. Go figure. And your point about Euro. soccer fans is very well taken!
Does it really matter that the people around you are wearing the latest Polo styles and drive C5s and Beamers? As long as you stay true to yourself.
Branding and particulars of material consumption are just the surface of the problem. Think about it. How many people go to universities not so much to learn as simply to get their ticket punched to get a decent job so they can sustain a particular lifestyle? Why is there an epidemic of teenaged depression in this country? "True to yourself" is a good ideal, but without learning to be critical of one's culture, it can be hard to know what "yourself" is.
I'm not a pessimist, though, I'm interested in what the AdBusters and CultureJammers are doing, trying to get people to look at their culture critically, using the same tools that Madison Avenue uses to keep people from looking. It's long overdue.
Seriously, there is really a problem here. We have the choice between two evils:
1) Any time you pass a law to restrict something (porn, casino, selling drugs online,...), the servers just move to a country that doesn't have that law.
2) You end up with countries (like this case) trying to regulate what's happening in other countries.
The broader problem, be it with France, Germany (remember Germany and CompuServe?) or anywhere else, is that we seem to confuse a belief in the goodness of freedom of the exchange of information and ideas between individuals with the freedom of commercial services to propagate anything they wish regardless of national laws, cultures or sensibilities.
Germany in particular has some rather strong legislation against promulgating any images or items that are Nazi or Nazi-like. The French have strong feelings on this score as well, perhaps because they're still torn between the romanticized Resistance and Vichy's roundup and handover of France's Jews to Hitler.
Whatever the cause, an online venue becomes a "place," and apparently the French don't want certain kinds of "places" on their cybersoil.
Unlike these countries, in the USA we have fairly wide liberties (albeit threatened), because as a people we can be controlled and manipulated by passive consumption of television and whatever else passes for mass entertainment, like spectator sports. Notice that the people the big corporations are challenging are outfits like 2600 who don't and won't fit into the groove. American culture is sort of a universal solvent - it gives one a sense of empowerment but mainly empowerment to consume information, ideas, and opinions delivered by corporate boardrooms - unless you choose to step outside the box, and at that point things get uncomfortable.
Other societies vest other authorities as arbiters of what's right or wrong in their cultures. Would I prefer some Left-Bank deconstructionist 's views on culture to those of Steve Case? That's what we're up against these days. So yeah, we do have a problem, Houston, but it's deeper than laws and enforcement.
Just look at most of the people on this site's irrational hatred of Microsoft. Same thing.
Hatred? No. Disgust? More likely. No one is going to try to physically harm MS, even as Borgish as they are.
Irrational? Let's see. You've been convicted of actions restraining trade, for which in past days other executives have gone to prison, and your response is to propose the government slap your wrist and send you on your way if you promise not to do it again. Who's irrational here?
In the arena of higher education, Stanley Aronowitz has a new book out which looks at corporate society and the corporatization of higher education, which has been going on for over a century now. Definitely worth a read. Title is The Knowledge Factory
Slashdot Mirror
And I don't really see your connection. What exactly do you mean by your relating TV manipulation and personal liberties? Are you saying that we have freedoms but are being pushed and prodded by the consumer culture? That we are automatons who have the freedom to do what we want, as long as it is from Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger (sp)?? If that's the case, then again, I don't think you're giving us enough credit.
Actually what I said is posted. It goes back to people like Erich Fromm in 1941, hardly new. Unless people choose to step outside the box, they let themselves be herded into conformity. It's so easy because without making a concrete choice to do otherwise, one is indeed just going along. And the folks being targeted by large corporations' legal flunkies, folks like those at 2600, are among those who step outside the box.
OK, that much I posted last round. Now I'll add something: we have a myth in our (American) society of how independent and individual we all are. The tough and independent Marlboro Man lighting up. Right. The group of people who read and post on a venue such as slashdot are (IMHO) more likely to think outside the mainstream culture than a lot of other collections of people, but the fact remains that our consumer culture runs deep. Look at Wired Magazine, which went from being a pretty innovative publication in its first year to being a sort of cybercultural GQ today. It's a very slippery slope, because American mass culture coopts and digests; this is why many educated folks abroad despise it even as they partake of it.
Am I idealizing the French or anyone else? Hell no. The French elite think Jerry Lewis is one of the most brilliant people of all time. Go figure. And your point about Euro. soccer fans is very well taken!
Does it really matter that the people around you are wearing the latest Polo styles and drive C5s and Beamers? As long as you stay true to yourself.
Branding and particulars of material consumption are just the surface of the problem. Think about it. How many people go to universities not so much to learn as simply to get their ticket punched to get a decent job so they can sustain a particular lifestyle? Why is there an epidemic of teenaged depression in this country? "True to yourself" is a good ideal, but without learning to be critical of one's culture, it can be hard to know what "yourself" is.
I'm not a pessimist, though, I'm interested in what the AdBusters and CultureJammers are doing, trying to get people to look at their culture critically, using the same tools that Madison Avenue uses to keep people from looking. It's long overdue.
Dave
Seriously, there is really a problem here. We have the choice between two evils:
...), the servers just move to a country that doesn't have that law.
1) Any time you pass a law to restrict something (porn, casino, selling drugs online,
2) You end up with countries (like this case) trying to regulate what's happening in other countries.
The broader problem, be it with France, Germany (remember Germany and CompuServe?) or anywhere else, is that we seem to confuse a belief in the goodness of freedom of the exchange of information and ideas between individuals with the freedom of commercial services to propagate anything they wish regardless of national laws, cultures or sensibilities.
Germany in particular has some rather strong legislation against promulgating any images or items that are Nazi or Nazi-like. The French have strong feelings on this score as well, perhaps because they're still torn between the romanticized Resistance and Vichy's roundup and handover of France's Jews to Hitler.
Whatever the cause, an online venue becomes a "place," and apparently the French don't want certain kinds of "places" on their cybersoil.
Unlike these countries, in the USA we have fairly wide liberties (albeit threatened), because as a people we can be controlled and manipulated by passive consumption of television and whatever else passes for mass entertainment, like spectator sports. Notice that the people the big corporations are challenging are outfits like 2600 who don't and won't fit into the groove. American culture is sort of a universal solvent - it gives one a sense of empowerment but mainly empowerment to consume information, ideas, and opinions delivered by corporate boardrooms - unless you choose to step outside the box, and at that point things get uncomfortable.
Other societies vest other authorities as arbiters of what's right or wrong in their cultures. Would I prefer some Left-Bank deconstructionist 's views on culture to those of Steve Case? That's what we're up against these days. So yeah, we do have a problem, Houston, but it's deeper than laws and enforcement.
Dave
Just look at most of the people on this site's irrational hatred of Microsoft. Same thing.
Hatred? No. Disgust? More likely. No one is going to try to physically harm MS, even as Borgish as they are.
Irrational? Let's see. You've been convicted of actions restraining trade, for which in past days other executives have gone to prison, and your response is to propose the government slap your wrist and send you on your way if you promise not to do it again. Who's irrational here?
Dave
Good comments.
In the arena of higher education, Stanley Aronowitz has a new book out which looks at corporate society and the corporatization of higher education, which has been going on for over a century now. Definitely worth a read. Title is The Knowledge Factory
Dave
Chill out, Bill. Redmond is that-a-way. -d