> This seems like two zealots largely ignorant of the other platform talking past each other. Indeed. And I often disagree with C¦Net point. MacOS 9 wins for Internet, because Linux don't have Flash and MP3 players ?! But, I have them! With Linux! A wider choice of browser because they have both Netscape AND IE ? Do they have Lynx, Mozilla, KFM/Konqueror, whatever? It's interesting that Opera and Amaya were forgotten. On the user interface side, I was surprised they say MacOS was more secure, because each virtuel desktop is protected by a password. Hey, that's what a user is made for, and then he can have multiple desktop. And for the supported peripheral, they make Linux wins. Because it can support oldies device, like ISA cards ?
In fact, I think people in C¦Net were just willing to surprize people by making each OS win were it lose. I don't have MacOS, so I didn't notice incoherence about it, but considering from what they're saying on Linux, I doubt it's a serious match.
> Interface:While some users prefer the limited functionality of the Cat, the variety of commands available with Dogs is more suitable for the "hacker". No, I disagree. Dogs are not for hackers, they are the average-user user-friendly pet. Some features in dogs are automatically turned on and can't be disabled, like "barking each times someone pass thru the street" and "following its master everywhere". The experienced user, who know how to watch his beasties, can tell you a cat is as reliable as a dog for these purpose, only they are more silent and discrete, and that's what I want from them. And, that's a matter of taste, but I prefer the "soft caress" interface of the cat to the "slobbery licks" one of the dog.
You totally miss my point. I have not comdamned Yahoo for being a money intitution, I was just saying their role is not "memory duty". Don't take something for something it is not. In my opinion, these things should be left to schools, museum, books and such, not to shops. Maybe you think that everything can be a part of shops' role, but I don't believe it. And I don't criticize money for being used in the specialized task of trade.
>I think it's much more dangerous to allow partial exposure to certain ideas Yes. Is a nazi emblem sell on an auction web site (web site who is yahoo.fr, not yahoo.com) a "full" or "complete" exposure to nazi ideas ? The LICRA, (who is not the French gov't, but an anti-racism organization, totally independant from gov't and presidence) find it damn partial. Thus, dangerous. Like you, isn't it ?
>Even worse, technically under French law, you can kiss goodbye any chance of buying Hegel, Hobbes, Nietzsche, Twain, or any numerous others with 'questionable' content. I'd like to know where do you have found that. I do have books from Nietzsche and Mark Twain in my library. Where have you seen they are "interdits". You can buy them, without problem. You can even buy really questionnable books, you can even buy Mein Kampf, but you'll have to seach it, it's not placed on outstanding locations. Of course you can, historians needs material to work on.
You had a Custer, who was the Hitler kind. You had a lots of people fighting (and still have some) for keeping slavery. And if you continue to go this way, you can surely have more. And what "European tendencies to regulate every imaginable facet of human activity" you speak of ? The most famous support of $cientology are american, like this f*cking actor. What about puritanism ? Isn't it trying to "regulate every imaginable facet of human activity" ? Intolerance ? What about the KKK ? Maccarthism ? We don't have such things in France. Do you really think your hands are clean, when your nation is built on the blood of american indians and african slaves ?
Simple: the "memory duty" is not something to be done by shops, even internet shops, which are mere money institution, but by schools, museum, history books and magazine. Selling a svastika tells nothing. Writing an article about nazi's crimes do.
Moderate this to 5! Hey, you moderators, make sure that this (anti-crap), this (actual fact) and this (clear explanations) are read by everyone out there. This will clarify the situation, and stop some crap. It's not yahoo.com who's being sued, it's yahoo.fr. Capiche? It's not the french gov't, but a french anti-racism organization, unrelated to government. Read the post beyond these links, please, before trolling your crap.
And you, you forget true svastika (the sacred symbol) was curved, Hitler makes it angular. He also inverted the branch direction. You can't mistake a buddhist svastika to a nazi one. Then, preventing people from selling nazi symbols is not meant to forget history, but to prevent the propagation of the idea beneath the symbol. French do remember their history, it's teached in school, showed in museum, remindered in magazine.
> "It appears France is now defining censorship on US Web sites" No, John. It's not yahoo.us, but yahoo.com. TLD com, net and org are international, not specifically americano-centered.
Oh, again the "precedent" stuff. Nazis were also a precedent: they were the first to practice imprescriptible crimes. The precedent that French can made won't be to interdict anything that can hurt people, but anything that can led to imprescriptible crimes. Yahoo is not the only site to blame, Amazon is selling a revisionnist book saying the shoah was an hoax, this book was rated 4-star/5, with comment explaining it is really interesting...
If you really are "against Nazi doctrine", why are you using the "nazi" term in your signature in a way that show nazis as just little troublemakers ? Abusing words make them lose strength. Using terms like "sig-nazi" is a way to disconnect nazis from their crimes. And thus, to let them start again.
> So a swastika badge and a white hood have "racist overtones". What happens when the next cult uses a flower or a tree? You really think nazi are the kind of guys to use a little flower as their emblem ? Then, symbols are symbols. The racist party that plagued France for long (and that is now defunct) was using a flame as their emblem. This particuliar flame was recognizable as their emblem, not as some sort of "generic flame clipart". Of course, some people will always think that everyone must be free to say anything, some other will always think some ideas are too dangerous to be propagated.
> Why can't people be tolerant of other people's beliefs? Yes, even neonazis - otherwise you are just emulating them. That's right - the French government/legal system is emulating the very group they are trying to condemn - how's that for irony? If the french were really emulating nazis in this case, agents would have been sent to capture the peoples from Yahoo! and the one who are selling these "object with racist overtones", and to bring them in extermination chamber.
Most of slashdotters are americans. You american havn't the slightest idea of what a full blown modern war in your very own country is, particularly one with atrocities like the one practiced by nazis. You didn't even realize the "never again!" feeling most europeans have about these nefarious idea. Maybe you need an Hitler in your very own country to catch it.
Just know that this is not any inoffensive ideology that people are right to have: it's the infamous dogma that led the world to the first imprescriptible crimes of its history. Remember it.
What is awful is when the n seconds are set to a ridiculously low value (the minimum), and the splash page is empty: you see a gray background for some times, then the page begin to display, and you naively believe it was an heavy page that take a long time to load, whereas it was in fact two pages with one hidden. After discovering the trick, and if we need to consult the site anyway, we can make a bookmark to the true page. That's where frames comes in action to prevent you from bookmarking what you want.
What a nightmare: a splash entry frame. This would be the ultimate evil.
Konqueror is also 100% CSS-1 compliant, and mostly CSS-2 compliant. It's also able to render bi-di text, and to use Netscape plugins. Of course noone talked about it, everyone out there hate everything that start with a "K" (I even heard one day a moron lamenting because he's lost his kernel sources rpms by doing a rm -rf k*).
I use Slashdot in light mode. No teal. No black. No orange. No images. Display fast. Much better. All black on grey background. Not funny. Not sexy. But fast. That's what I want. Fast. Fast! FAST! An highway needs to be fast. An highway is not teal, nor orange, nor funny, nor sexy. An highway must be fast and practical. A "data super-highway" must be fast and useful too.
All website with dynamically generated content and user registration should propose something like the "light mode".
Yes, but C++Builder have code generator. Their reasonning is that, as you use code generated by their software (and maybe template also) and as you can use code from Borland (the "including any library and source code included for this purpose with the Software" things). Legally speaking, if you just use the text editor and compilator feature of CBuilder, and if you write your code without using parts of their libraries and example code, you are the copyright owner and do what you want with your code. But if you write code that wouldn't have been writed this way if you were using another IDE, then they own a portion of the copyright. Or at least, that what they say.
Shameless plug: KDevelop is a nice Unix IDE without such stupid restrictions. (I will lose Karma with rants like this).
The "may" apply to "you can reproduce and distribute", not to "in executable form only". If they were saying "You must reproduce and distribute...", that would means you will be legally forced to distribute everything you make with C++Builder, including crap like all your "Helloworld", "Foobar" and "Functiontest" progs you can write to learn a language. This can be read like "You can or not reproduce and distribute programs created using the Software as long as you distribute it in executable form only".
You won't use anything made by peoples from my school, then. We learn OOP & C++ before system programming and C. And furthermore, all books and FAQ I've seen about C++ programming says it's useless (and even risky) to learn C in order to learn C++ (if the coder don't want to write apps in C also), because an OOP C++ developer must lose some reflexes he get with C. It's like learning SmallTalk in order to learn C++: risky and useless.
Something better than a Babelfish will require IA to work. It should have neural networks to learn more vocabulary and better its syntaxic and grammatical knowledge, can receive feedback from users about the quality of its translation, and suggestions about the meaning of some words in a given context. Eventually, with users' feedback and suggestion analyzed and stored into its neural net, it would be able to translate as good as an (apprentice ?) human can do.
Furthermore, if it works from the conceptual meaning of the text analyzed rather than from its list of possible litteral meaning, it would be able to understand and translate better.
To sum up both articles of the Register, the PowerPC Alliance is having dissenssion, so Apple has developed ports to x86 platforms in case the PowerPC goes down. Darwin on x86 is an emergency exit for Apple, but won't concretized in a true full-fledged Mac OS X as long as PPC aren't doomed.
> Even KDE and gnome don't give you either the interface consistency or the attention to detail of the Mac cerca 1990. For all their technical bells and whistles, KDE and Gnome are still ugly, clumsy, and poorly designed. This looks like flamebait. In my brother's uni, all student-accessible computers are Macintoshes, and I get lots of complaint from him about the poor GUI of Mac, and their stupid 1-button mouse, etc. Talking about user consistency, have you take a look at latest Quick Time's interface: it broke lots of standard for application interface, misuse widgets, and is now on the Interface Hall of Shame!
>> Linux *started* with at least the functionality of a late-80's user interface as soon as X compiled on it. > Hmm... system wide, consistent cut and paste? A decent graphical file browser? Consistent keyboard shortcuts for common commands? multiple monitor support? Multiple monitor support in 80's interface? in Win3.1? Ah! And for the "decent graphical file browser" stuff, existing ones on other platform weren't much handy at all.
> The fact is that most people don't have the time or the interest to learn the Unix CLI. Doing so is no small undertaking-- it takes days to become even basically functional, and months to master all its nuances. I can sit down in front of a Mac app I've never seen before, and start using effectively almost immediately. I can do that because Apple has worked hard to ensure that developers follow certain conventions in interface design, so that new apps work the same as my old ones. CLI's expect you to memorize an entirely new set of flags and options with every command. I came to Linux with DOS experience, and didn't even need to learn basic command. The "entirely new set of flags of option" is what GNU long option fought. A brief look at `apps --help` is generally sufficient. Moreover, Learning Unix CLI's subtle nuances is useful only for shell script porgrammers. Other just need to know the ls, cd, rm, cp, mv, mkdir and rmdir command.
> As for cutting and pasting, I'll take real cut-and-paste with a real clipboard any day. The standard X cut and paste is a nasty hack that should have died 10 years ago. I shouldn't have to worry about accidentally highlighting text before I've had time to paste copied text to its destination. And if Unix had a standard keyboard shortcut for "paste" you wouldn't lose more than a quarter-second in pasting. That's why desktop environment like KDE and GNOME do have their own clipboard. And they do have standard keyboard shortcut: in KDE, Ctrl-X/C/V for cutting/copying/pasting. Only statically-linked motif apps like Netscape don't follow this scheme (use Alt instead of Ctrl). But Netscape is crap anyway, long live Konqueror.
> And forget it if you're planning on working with images, souds, video, spreadsheets, or even formatted text-- those are just too frivolous for our manly command line interface and our handy dandy middle-button paste. if you want to display them while you're in runlevel 3, yes. But CLI's asset is it allow things complicated, boring and repetitive to be done by a script. Piping, extracting, redirecting output to input after modified it automatically by a Perl script. You can make pretty impressive stuff done this way, and it was how CLI was intended to be used. Of course, most things are easier to do with a GUI, but how can you ask for a GUI image viewer to display all images on a particuliar partition without some CLI tricks. I think all users use CLI in a terminal windows, and switch to it only when they need to.
Of course, some things may looks complicated to do with these tools. But these are things that are far more complicated to do in a Mac or Windows environment without these tools. If you don't like them, or don't know how to handle them, you can live without. There are these "ugly, clumsy and poorly designed" KDE and GNOME for user-friendly graphical computing. If only MacOS and Windows 98 were as "ugly, clumsy and poorly designed", they would be more useful.
I run Slashdot in light mode. Not because I use Lynx (although I do sometimes) but because pages render faster and because there are less images cluttering my screen. Hypertext is hyperTEXT. And in this mode, yeah, sure,/. is pretty functionnal. Something zeldman's site is not.
The one who's a troll here is the moderator. Yes, the web is not print. Graphical site designer should understand this. Each image is *LOTS* heavier than equivalent text when you must download it. Those who make a site totally unreadable as long as all image are not loaded miss the point -and that's what means web!=print. On a printed page, image sure make it pretty, on a web page it just make it frustrating as you must WAIT too long.
And pah-rl also. And Puhrl also. But not Perl. Perl is great. Thanks to attack only what you do know. The only fact you're unable to spell it prove you've never even try to learn it.
I've seen his page... First a useless screen whose aim is to junk my history list... then an awful orange screen which became to blink between two close shade of this awful orange... then dumbass text hiding my statusbar... And stupid images also. This site is UGLY and USER-HOSTILE ! If the web is going to looks like that, I'm going to use gopher! I don't want to have to use such bad taste things, this guy is maybe a great Javascript coder, but he's a poor designer. Simplicity and sobriety are virtues, not flaws. Thanks to not waste my precious bandwith with such junk. I was willing to ask him if there are any hope of having a better web, more practical and information-centric. NO! With people like him having decisive voice, the web will go on to something centered on useless visual effect that don't even make a site more readable. More the contrary, actually.
Slashdot Mirror
> This seems like two zealots largely ignorant of the other platform talking past each other.
Indeed. And I often disagree with C¦Net point. MacOS 9 wins for Internet, because Linux don't have Flash and MP3 players ?! But, I have them! With Linux! A wider choice of browser because they have both Netscape AND IE ? Do they have Lynx, Mozilla, KFM/Konqueror, whatever? It's interesting that Opera and Amaya were forgotten.
On the user interface side, I was surprised they say MacOS was more secure, because each virtuel desktop is protected by a password. Hey, that's what a user is made for, and then he can have multiple desktop.
And for the supported peripheral, they make Linux wins. Because it can support oldies device, like ISA cards ?
In fact, I think people in C¦Net were just willing to surprize people by making each OS win were it lose. I don't have MacOS, so I didn't notice incoherence about it, but considering from what they're saying on Linux, I doubt it's a serious match.
> Interface:While some users prefer the limited functionality of the Cat, the variety of commands available with Dogs is more suitable for the "hacker".
No, I disagree. Dogs are not for hackers, they are the average-user user-friendly pet. Some features in dogs are automatically turned on and can't be disabled, like "barking each times someone pass thru the street" and "following its master everywhere". The experienced user, who know how to watch his beasties, can tell you a cat is as reliable as a dog for these purpose, only they are more silent and discrete, and that's what I want from them.
And, that's a matter of taste, but I prefer the "soft caress" interface of the cat to the "slobbery licks" one of the dog.
You totally miss my point. I have not comdamned Yahoo for being a money intitution, I was just saying their role is not "memory duty". Don't take something for something it is not. In my opinion, these things should be left to schools, museum, books and such, not to shops. Maybe you think that everything can be a part of shops' role, but I don't believe it. And I don't criticize money for being used in the specialized task of trade.
>I think it's much more dangerous to allow partial exposure to certain ideas
Yes. Is a nazi emblem sell on an auction web site (web site who is yahoo.fr, not yahoo.com) a "full" or "complete" exposure to nazi ideas ? The LICRA, (who is not the French gov't, but an anti-racism organization, totally independant from gov't and presidence) find it damn partial. Thus, dangerous. Like you, isn't it ?
>Even worse, technically under French law, you can kiss goodbye any chance of buying Hegel, Hobbes, Nietzsche, Twain, or any numerous others with 'questionable' content.
I'd like to know where do you have found that. I do have books from Nietzsche and Mark Twain in my library. Where have you seen they are "interdits". You can buy them, without problem. You can even buy really questionnable books, you can even buy Mein Kampf, but you'll have to seach it, it's not placed on outstanding locations. Of course you can, historians needs material to work on.
And what "European tendencies to regulate every imaginable facet of human activity" you speak of ? The most famous support of $cientology are american, like this f*cking actor. What about puritanism ? Isn't it trying to "regulate every imaginable facet of human activity" ? Intolerance ? What about the KKK ? Maccarthism ? We don't have such things in France. Do you really think your hands are clean, when your nation is built on the blood of american indians and african slaves ?
Stop trolling, okay ?
Simple: the "memory duty" is not something to be done by shops, even internet shops, which are mere money institution, but by schools, museum, history books and magazine. Selling a svastika tells nothing. Writing an article about nazi's crimes do.
Moderate this to 5! Hey, you moderators, make sure that this (anti-crap) , this (actual fact) and this (clear explanations) are read by everyone out there. This will clarify the situation, and stop some crap.
It's not yahoo.com who's being sued, it's yahoo.fr. Capiche?
It's not the french gov't, but a french anti-racism organization, unrelated to government.
Read the post beyond these links, please, before trolling your crap.
And you, you forget true svastika (the sacred symbol) was curved, Hitler makes it angular. He also inverted the branch direction.
You can't mistake a buddhist svastika to a nazi one.
Then, preventing people from selling nazi symbols is not meant to forget history, but to prevent the propagation of the idea beneath the symbol. French do remember their history, it's teached in school, showed in museum, remindered in magazine.
> "It appears France is now defining censorship on US Web sites"
No, John. It's not yahoo.us, but yahoo.com. TLD com, net and org are international, not specifically americano-centered.
Oh, again the "precedent" stuff. Nazis were also a precedent: they were the first to practice imprescriptible crimes. The precedent that French can made won't be to interdict anything that can hurt people, but anything that can led to imprescriptible crimes. Yahoo is not the only site to blame, Amazon is selling a revisionnist book saying the shoah was an hoax, this book was rated 4-star/5, with comment explaining it is really interesting...
If you really are "against Nazi doctrine", why are you using the "nazi" term in your signature in a way that show nazis as just little troublemakers ? Abusing words make them lose strength. Using terms like "sig-nazi" is a way to disconnect nazis from their crimes. And thus, to let them start again.
> So a swastika badge and a white hood have "racist overtones". What happens when the next cult uses a flower or a tree?
You really think nazi are the kind of guys to use a little flower as their emblem ? Then, symbols are symbols. The racist party that plagued France for long (and that is now defunct) was using a flame as their emblem. This particuliar flame was recognizable as their emblem, not as some sort of "generic flame clipart".
Of course, some people will always think that everyone must be free to say anything, some other will always think some ideas are too dangerous to be propagated.
> Why can't people be tolerant of other people's beliefs? Yes, even neonazis - otherwise you are just emulating them. That's right - the French government/legal system is emulating the very group they are trying to condemn - how's that for irony?
If the french were really emulating nazis in this case, agents would have been sent to capture the peoples from Yahoo! and the one who are selling these "object with racist overtones", and to bring them in extermination chamber.
Most of slashdotters are americans. You american havn't the slightest idea of what a full blown modern war in your very own country is, particularly one with atrocities like the one practiced by nazis. You didn't even realize the "never again!" feeling most europeans have about these nefarious idea. Maybe you need an Hitler in your very own country to catch it.
Just know that this is not any inoffensive ideology that people are right to have: it's the infamous dogma that led the world to the first imprescriptible crimes of its history.
Remember it.
What a nightmare: a splash entry frame. This would be the ultimate evil.
Konqueror is also 100% CSS-1 compliant, and mostly CSS-2 compliant. It's also able to render bi-di text, and to use Netscape plugins. Of course noone talked about it, everyone out there hate everything that start with a "K" (I even heard one day a moron lamenting because he's lost his kernel sources rpms by doing a rm -rf k*).
All website with dynamically generated content and user registration should propose something like the "light mode".
Yes, but C++Builder have code generator. Their reasonning is that, as you use code generated by their software (and maybe template also) and as you can use code from Borland (the "including any library and source code included for this purpose with the Software" things). Legally speaking, if you just use the text editor and compilator feature of CBuilder, and if you write your code without using parts of their libraries and example code, you are the copyright owner and do what you want with your code. But if you write code that wouldn't have been writed this way if you were using another IDE, then they own a portion of the copyright. Or at least, that what they say.
Shameless plug: KDevelop is a nice Unix IDE without such stupid restrictions. (I will lose Karma with rants like this).
The "may" apply to "you can reproduce and distribute", not to "in executable form only". If they were saying "You must reproduce and distribute...", that would means you will be legally forced to distribute everything you make with C++Builder, including crap like all your "Helloworld", "Foobar" and "Functiontest" progs you can write to learn a language. This can be read like "You can or not reproduce and distribute programs created using the Software as long as you distribute it in executable form only".
You won't use anything made by peoples from my school, then. We learn OOP & C++ before system programming and C. And furthermore, all books and FAQ I've seen about C++ programming says it's useless (and even risky) to learn C in order to learn C++ (if the coder don't want to write apps in C also), because an OOP C++ developer must lose some reflexes he get with C. It's like learning SmallTalk in order to learn C++: risky and useless.
Something better than a Babelfish will require IA to work. It should have neural networks to learn more vocabulary and better its syntaxic and grammatical knowledge, can receive feedback from users about the quality of its translation, and suggestions about the meaning of some words in a given context. Eventually, with users' feedback and suggestion analyzed and stored into its neural net, it would be able to translate as good as an (apprentice ?) human can do.
Furthermore, if it works from the conceptual meaning of the text analyzed rather than from its list of possible litteral meaning, it would be able to understand and translate better.
To sum up both articles of the Register, the PowerPC Alliance is having dissenssion, so Apple has developed ports to x86 platforms in case the PowerPC goes down. Darwin on x86 is an emergency exit for Apple, but won't concretized in a true full-fledged Mac OS X as long as PPC aren't doomed.
> Even KDE and gnome don't give you either the interface consistency or the attention to detail of the Mac cerca 1990. For all their technical bells and whistles, KDE and Gnome are still ugly, clumsy, and poorly designed.
This looks like flamebait. In my brother's uni, all student-accessible computers are Macintoshes, and I get lots of complaint from him about the poor GUI of Mac, and their stupid 1-button mouse, etc. Talking about user consistency, have you take a look at latest Quick Time's interface: it broke lots of standard for application interface, misuse widgets, and is now on the Interface Hall of Shame!
>> Linux *started* with at least the functionality of a late-80's user interface as soon as X compiled on it.
> Hmm... system wide, consistent cut and paste? A decent graphical file browser? Consistent keyboard shortcuts for common commands? multiple monitor support?
Multiple monitor support in 80's interface? in Win3.1? Ah! And for the "decent graphical file browser" stuff, existing ones on other platform weren't much handy at all.
> The fact is that most people don't have the time or the interest to learn the Unix CLI. Doing so is no small undertaking-- it takes days to become even basically functional, and months to master all its nuances. I can sit down in front of a Mac app I've never seen before, and start using effectively almost immediately. I can do that because Apple has worked hard to ensure that developers follow certain conventions in interface design, so that new apps work the same as my old ones. CLI's expect you to memorize an entirely new set of flags and options with every command.
I came to Linux with DOS experience, and didn't even need to learn basic command. The "entirely new set of flags of option" is what GNU long option fought. A brief look at `apps --help` is generally sufficient.
Moreover, Learning Unix CLI's subtle nuances is useful only for shell script porgrammers. Other just need to know the ls, cd, rm, cp, mv, mkdir and rmdir command.
> As for cutting and pasting, I'll take real cut-and-paste with a real clipboard any day. The standard X cut and paste is a nasty hack that should have died 10 years ago. I shouldn't have to worry about accidentally highlighting text before I've had time to paste copied text to its destination. And if Unix had a standard keyboard shortcut for "paste" you wouldn't lose more than a quarter-second in pasting.
That's why desktop environment like KDE and GNOME do have their own clipboard. And they do have standard keyboard shortcut: in KDE, Ctrl-X/C/V for cutting/copying/pasting. Only statically-linked motif apps like Netscape don't follow this scheme (use Alt instead of Ctrl). But Netscape is crap anyway, long live Konqueror.
> And forget it if you're planning on working with images, souds, video, spreadsheets, or even formatted text-- those are just too frivolous for our manly command line interface and our handy dandy middle-button paste.
if you want to display them while you're in runlevel 3, yes. But CLI's asset is it allow things complicated, boring and repetitive to be done by a script. Piping, extracting, redirecting output to input after modified it automatically by a Perl script. You can make pretty impressive stuff done this way, and it was how CLI was intended to be used. Of course, most things are easier to do with a GUI, but how can you ask for a GUI image viewer to display all images on a particuliar partition without some CLI tricks. I think all users use CLI in a terminal windows, and switch to it only when they need to.
Of course, some things may looks complicated to do with these tools. But these are things that are far more complicated to do in a Mac or Windows environment without these tools. If you don't like them, or don't know how to handle them, you can live without. There are these "ugly, clumsy and poorly designed" KDE and GNOME for user-friendly graphical computing. If only MacOS and Windows 98 were as "ugly, clumsy and poorly designed", they would be more useful.
I run Slashdot in light mode. Not because I use Lynx (although I do sometimes) but because pages render faster and because there are less images cluttering my screen. Hypertext is hyperTEXT. And in this mode, yeah, sure, /. is pretty functionnal. Something zeldman's site is not.
The one who's a troll here is the moderator. Yes, the web is not print. Graphical site designer should understand this. Each image is *LOTS* heavier than equivalent text when you must download it. Those who make a site totally unreadable as long as all image are not loaded miss the point -and that's what means web!=print. On a printed page, image sure make it pretty, on a web page it just make it frustrating as you must WAIT too long.
And pah-rl also. And Puhrl also. But not Perl. Perl is great. Thanks to attack only what you do know. The only fact you're unable to spell it prove you've never even try to learn it.
I've seen his page... First a useless screen whose aim is to junk my history list... then an awful orange screen which became to blink between two close shade of this awful orange... then dumbass text hiding my statusbar... And stupid images also. This site is UGLY and USER-HOSTILE !
If the web is going to looks like that, I'm going to use gopher! I don't want to have to use such bad taste things, this guy is maybe a great Javascript coder, but he's a poor designer.
Simplicity and sobriety are virtues, not flaws. Thanks to not waste my precious bandwith with such junk.
I was willing to ask him if there are any hope of having a better web, more practical and information-centric. NO! With people like him having decisive voice, the web will go on to something centered on useless visual effect that don't even make a site more readable. More the contrary, actually.