(or in the worst case, rewrite it, which would keep the interfaces the same).
Yeah, they are re-writing X windows, and keeping the interfaces the same. Under Wayland, X windows is just another application program. It will run with no noticeable difference for anyone who cares.
For those who don't want this security nightmare on their systems, they don't have to install X windows.
There is NO REASON for an entertainment system to be on this bus.
My car has precisely one display on the dashboard, used to display all information, from radio frequency to fluid levels to outside temperature. I like having all of this information on one display. The only way to accomplish this is to have the entertainment system connected to the car's bus.
Exactly, X windows runs at a very low level in your computer so any security issues result in easy root access for the attacker. Yes indeed you have a program that has direct memory access to your computer's hardware, it runs as root, it has an open listening socket, and it's chock full of security bugs. There is no comparison at all, X is a screaming disaster waiting to happen.
Thanks, Fran. You've just made the entire open source community look like a bunch of useless assholes once again. Here we have a user asking a legitimate question, and instead of just answering the question you treat that user like dirt.
Duh, when it's ready to go, it's ready to go. When it's not ready to go, it's not ready to go. No amount of hand waving and
Normal people don't like being treated like crap
Since when do "normal" people compile debian packages from scratch?
Wayland too will remain a niche product, all thanks to people like you
Yeah, wayland will fail because I posted on slashdot! World domination is MINE!
The problem started when people wanted to use 3D and watch videos. Also audio was outside of the scope of X11 and of course printing. The addition of video required direct hardware access to be fast enough (especially in the late 1990s and early 2000s). Therefore, stuff like DRI where realized, which broke with the X11 principle that an application sends drawing information to the server which then does all the graphic stuff.
I hope that clears things up.
So in other words, X11 is not designed for the modern desktop and it's only there at all thanks to some terrible hacks.
X Server Security Disaster: "It's Worse Than It Looks"
they are simply moved into "extensions"
Where the code is neglected and allowed to accumulate security problems, because "nobody uses it" and "nobody tests it" even though it is still in the product.
you will be able to do the same from your wayland desktop, just like you can do it from your OSX desktop or your Windows desktop. Just install an X server app and away you go.
X code is basically unmaintainable. There is a ton of code on X that nobody uses but needs to be maintained on every little change you may add. This slows development to almost at stall.
This the big reason to drop X windows.
If you have unmaintainable code, it's probably loaded with security problems, too.
Every time anyone touches the X code looking for security problems, it's like opening a cockroach nest.
correct they broke X by adding features which did not conform to the basic principle of X.
You are aware that the basic principles of X are that you have a monochrome screen or a 8-bit color screen with a lookup table, no acceleration, no sound, and the only allowed input device is a three button mouse?
If you are not doing all of those things then you are not conforming to the basic principles of X. 24 bit color? That doesn't conform to the basic principles of X. Sound? Ditto. Outline fonts? Totally in violation of the X principles. A screen saver that has actual security? Nope, that's not within the basic principles of X.
This sort of thing has been supported quite possibly since before you were born.
"Supported"??? Hah, we tried running SGI OpenGL apps over the network, we got kernel panics. No support, no nuthin. It never worked, we used other technology.
On the other hand, being second-class is far preferable to being THIRD-CLASS like crap they have in MacOS. THAT is what you get when you casually dismiss the idea of the whole "remote X" thing. You end up with something that's total garbage and is unusable even on a Gigabit LAN.
WTF are you talking about???
1. Apple has a very nice VNC client built in 2. Apple has supported X windows longer than just about anybody else. I use their X server all the time and it works well. 3. Microsoft ships a very good quality remote desktop client for OSX, it works much better than any Linux remote desktop software. 4. Wayland has remote display technology that works much better than X 5. I use this stuff regularly over a crappy wifi connection and it all works great.
Slashdot Mirror
Soon after X versions of applications will not be available. Then.. bye bye remote display.
Really? So X windows is going to disappear entirely because linux decides to improve its display technology?
And it's going to take RDP and VNC with it? And what about the native wayland remote display protocol? All going away? No more remote displays???
(or in the worst case, rewrite it, which would keep the interfaces the same).
Yeah, they are re-writing X windows, and keeping the interfaces the same. Under Wayland, X windows is just another application program. It will run with no noticeable difference for anyone who cares.
For those who don't want this security nightmare on their systems, they don't have to install X windows.
There is NO REASON for an entertainment system to be on this bus.
My car has precisely one display on the dashboard, used to display all information, from radio frequency to fluid levels to outside temperature. I like having all of this information on one display. The only way to accomplish this is to have the entertainment system connected to the car's bus.
Or, I don't know, how about not hooking up the car's controls to any network at all? Why is that even a thing?
The brake lights work better when they are connected to the network of wires that connects the front end of the car to the back end of the car.
If the "car" part of the car were completely disconnected from any "outside" communication
my car has an FM radio
can you break in through it?
it cost about $130.
silly silly you, buying new parts to put in a used vehicle. It would have been $15 at a junkyard.
Laptops have had hardware power switches for their transceivers for a long time now,
you think that switch turns off the radio, but really that switch puts it in the mode that enables secret remote access
go ahead, prove me wrong
it is equally shocking that corporations like amazon.com have public IP addresses, anyone whatsoever can portscan them and look for vulnerabilities.
Depends where you are. In large cities taxis are hailed. In small cities taxi rides are pre-arranged and not hailed.
you've never been to brooklyn, which is not a small city
VNC vs X is apples vs oranges.
Exactly, X windows runs at a very low level in your computer so any security issues result in easy root access for the attacker. Yes indeed you have a program that has direct memory access to your computer's hardware, it runs as root, it has an open listening socket, and it's chock full of security bugs. There is no comparison at all, X is a screaming disaster waiting to happen.
Thanks, Fran. You've just made the entire open source community look like a bunch of useless assholes once again. Here we have a user asking a legitimate question, and instead of just answering the question you treat that user like dirt.
Duh, when it's ready to go, it's ready to go. When it's not ready to go, it's not ready to go. No amount of hand waving and
Normal people don't like being treated like crap
Since when do "normal" people compile debian packages from scratch?
Wayland too will remain a niche product, all thanks to people like you
Yeah, wayland will fail because I posted on slashdot! World domination is MINE!
The problem started when people wanted to use 3D and watch videos. Also audio was outside of the scope of X11 and of course printing. The addition of video required direct hardware access to be fast enough (especially in the late 1990s and early 2000s). Therefore, stuff like DRI where realized, which broke with the X11 principle that an application sends drawing information to the server which then does all the graphic stuff.
I hope that clears things up.
So in other words, X11 is not designed for the modern desktop and it's only there at all thanks to some terrible hacks.
We didn't spend the last 20 years building LINUX for your kind. Kindly fuck off and buy a Micro$haft "xbox" if you want to "game".
Linus Torvalds:
"I love the Steam announcements – I think that's an opportunity to really help the desktop," he said, speaking at LinuxCon in Edinburgh.
X (and good engineering practices)
Every time X windows gets a code audit, the auditors run away screaming at the poor quality of the code.
https://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5499_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312291830_-_x_security_-_ilja_van_sprundel.html#video
X Server Security Disaster: "It's Worse Than It Looks"
they are simply moved into "extensions"
Where the code is neglected and allowed to accumulate security problems, because "nobody uses it" and "nobody tests it" even though it is still in the product.
This by the way is TERRIBLE engineering practice.
X windows is a total disaster, security-wise.
You will still be able to run X windows apps on your wayland desktop: fire up an X server, just like you would do on OSX or Windows.
you will be able to do the same from your wayland desktop, just like you can do it from your OSX desktop or your Windows desktop. Just install an X server app and away you go.
When the fuck will Wayland be usable on my system?
when you find someone competent to install it for you
-if a little slowly- for me ten years ago on commodity hardware running RHEL.
3-D applications have performance requirements, so in other words, it didn't work for you either.
X code is basically unmaintainable. There is a ton of code on X that nobody uses but needs to be maintained on every little change you may add. This slows development to almost at stall.
This the big reason to drop X windows.
If you have unmaintainable code, it's probably loaded with security problems, too.
Every time anyone touches the X code looking for security problems, it's like opening a cockroach nest.
In fact, not wanting to give up on "proper hardware acceleration" is the number one reason I despise Wayland.
Lies, lies, lies, yeah:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=mtgxmde
correct they broke X by adding features which did not conform to the basic principle of X.
You are aware that the basic principles of X are that you have a monochrome screen or a 8-bit color screen with a lookup table, no acceleration, no sound, and the only allowed input device is a three button mouse?
If you are not doing all of those things then you are not conforming to the basic principles of X. 24 bit color? That doesn't conform to the basic principles of X. Sound? Ditto. Outline fonts? Totally in violation of the X principles. A screen saver that has actual security? Nope, that's not within the basic principles of X.
This sort of thing has been supported quite possibly since before you were born.
"Supported"??? Hah, we tried running SGI OpenGL apps over the network, we got kernel panics. No support, no nuthin. It never worked, we used other technology.
Only the X developers should be whining about the burdens of coding X.
Says someone who has clearly never written an application for X Windows.
On the other hand, being second-class is far preferable to being THIRD-CLASS like crap they have in MacOS. THAT is what you get when you casually dismiss the idea of the whole "remote X" thing. You end up with something that's total garbage and is unusable even on a Gigabit LAN.
WTF are you talking about???
1. Apple has a very nice VNC client built in
2. Apple has supported X windows longer than just about anybody else. I use their X server all the time and it works well.
3. Microsoft ships a very good quality remote desktop client for OSX, it works much better than any Linux remote desktop software.
4. Wayland has remote display technology that works much better than X
5. I use this stuff regularly over a crappy wifi connection and it all works great.
Just don't pretend Linux is a unix clone anymore.
So you need X windows to be a Unix workstation? OSX would like a word with you