No flame. Your points are valid. How you ended up at 0 I don't know.
But, I would disagree with your conclusion that Linux needs a strong marketing presence. The endorsements by Oracle and IBM (the biggies), and the numerous startups (many of which will fail, like all startups), are the best kind of marketing a de-centralized movement like Linux could hope for.
No one 'owns' it, so it's marketing is a grassroots thing. Now we're seeing the grassroots effort pay off.
Give yourself a pat on the back and breath a sigh of relief. We're here and we're not going anywhere. Don't rest too long, though. Now we gotta win.
Which brings me to the topic of Transmeta, and more specifically the web tablets, handhelds, and embedded systems that they'll help bring about. MS doesn't live in these devices. They're wide open. If Transmeta can increase the usefulness and number of these kinds of devices, Linux marketshare grows. At my company we're looking at all the new handhelds running Linux, rather than WinCE. Boo yah.
Anyway, I don't think Linux is A-1 within the businessman's mind, but the fact that they have an opinion at all regarding Linux is a good thing.
Patience is a virtue.
"Do you want me to whack him? Off him? Whack him off?" - last night on the Family Guy.
I don't want to get into a flame war on this, but in defense of Java:
Java doesn't let you use primitives (int, short, etc) as classes without wrapping them yourself (lots of overhead).
java.lang.Number and subclasses. Immutable, but classes. Changing them to be mutable (?), I don't see that as lots of overhead...
Java doesn't let you drop down to native code and turn off the garbage collector if you need to. Or use pointers if you want to talk to the underlying C-based OS.
JNI?
Java doesn't have a "foreach" statement.
That's what the Iterator interface is for.
Java doesn't have property-handlers (eg. write functions that are treated as member variables - eg:
a.setName("MyName") would become: a.Name = "MyName" - but it would still go through a function.
These are great for encapsulation.
This, I suppose, is preference... If I say a.Name = "X", maybe I'm trying to avoid the setName function, presuming Name is accessible. Personally, I don't think this is a help to making the code more readable.
Java doesn't support indexers (methods on a class - say List, which allow you to take the object of type List, and use it like an array - eg:
List l;
l[index] = "asjdasid"
Vector v = new Vector();
v.setElementAt("asjdasid", 0);
???
I suppose the point is, C# has different ways of accomplishing the same things Java can.
The real question is: Does C# have enough new functionality to draw the masses to it? I'll wager time can answer that for us...
I guess it gets into security. I do believe in the idea of a central repository for data. Call it the 'core', the 'mainframe', the 'crypt' (i wish), whatever. But, for that idea to work, I see two fundamental needs:
1. A fast, reliable network connection from anywhere (within reason).
B. Extremely tough, reliable, trusted encryption for your data.
We have neither now, nor would most of us trust Microsoft to provide the latter. This is an evolutionary process, and this idea, stemming from Sun/*nix environs, is being tested by MS. MS seems to be attempting to adapt to the Internet era (yow! did i just say that?).
I'll wager they're not successful b/c they don't understand security. Their whole OS philosophy stems from the single, standalone machine days. Anyway, enough of that.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If I want to search for cola sodas and I type in Coke, I think I'd like to see all the cola soda sites out there, not just Coke.
So if this meta tag crap is legal, why can't I sue my competitor for appearing next to my add in the Yellow Pages. That's a search, right? Maybe Coke should sue Pepsi b/c Pepsi appears right next to Coke in the grocery store. That's a search too. Hell, why can't Coke sue me for saying Pepsi in the same sentence, I'm probably not treating their trademark with proper respect and obedience.
Ahhhh! I hate lawyers and American law. It's so NOT about truth and justice.
The truth lies somewhere between 'Famous Potatoes' and 'Live Free Or Die'. (George Carlin paraphrased).
P.S., For all those about to point out the Yellow Pages argument flaw, pretend it's the white pages and the company names are "Al's Tires" and "Amy's Tires". If you don't like Al and Amy, contrive your own names such that they're close together in the alphabet. That's not the point.
The only problem is those California Silicon bastages are selling those houses and moving here, the Denver/Boulder corridor. Where they buy houses at list. Which drives prices up. Which forces me to buy in a town like Longmont, where the rednecks are plentiful and they still smoke in restaurants. I hate that.
I mean, I found myself laughing my ass off at the closed bids you guys were doing out there. People coming in well over the asking price and still not getting the place. But now, just a couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine put a bid in $500 over the asking price on a condo b/c someone else was putting in a bid that day. She got it, the other person's bid was at asking price. THIS IS INSANITY!
You sons-a-bitches.:-)
Moderators, you may think this is offtopic, but it IS happening. They're all here: Sun, HP, IBM, Level 3, and many more...
One more thing. How do you post a new thread. I don't see any links for that...
Re:Is Anybody Really Using Java? (Honestly!)
on
Swing
·
· Score: 2
In deed, sir.;-) I've built the following with Java: CORBA wrapper around a legacy app (speaking sockets) for integration into C-based CGI code. (yes, that's C based CGI scripting. yuck!) Inventory management app for Bell Atlantic (initial rollout was 500+ users in various sites). Note: The app was in swing and a bit sluggish, but that was because their deployment machines turned out to be P100's rather than the minimum P166s in the requirements doc. EJB based app for a small Silicon startup (through design and prototype). Data entry app on a handheld device running 95 and various CE based devices (going to beta in a few weeks). So since my C days (which were post Perl), I've been involved in several Java based projects. All have been successful (read: they were deployed and are still in use). Now don't get me wrong. I HATE Swing. I think it's buggy, slow, and stupid that when I run a swing app on Linux, it looks like SH*T (e.g., a motif window in Enlightenment). Anyway, I'd much prefer all my apps have the same look and feel on the desktop. But that's me. Recently I've been developing a web based product using JSP/Servlets. I think that this is where Java truly shines. Middle tier. Low performance requirements (relative to gaming). Business logic intensive. No GUI. $.02
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No flame. Your points are valid. How you ended up at 0 I don't know.
But, I would disagree with your conclusion that Linux needs a strong marketing presence. The endorsements by Oracle and IBM (the biggies), and the numerous startups (many of which will fail, like all startups), are the best kind of marketing a de-centralized movement like Linux could hope for.
No one 'owns' it, so it's marketing is a grassroots thing. Now we're seeing the grassroots effort pay off.
Give yourself a pat on the back and breath a sigh of relief. We're here and we're not going anywhere. Don't rest too long, though. Now we gotta win.
Which brings me to the topic of Transmeta, and more specifically the web tablets, handhelds, and embedded systems that they'll help bring about. MS doesn't live in these devices. They're wide open. If Transmeta can increase the usefulness and number of these kinds of devices, Linux marketshare grows. At my company we're looking at all the new handhelds running Linux, rather than WinCE. Boo yah.
Anyway, I don't think Linux is A-1 within the businessman's mind, but the fact that they have an opinion at all regarding Linux is a good thing.
Patience is a virtue.
"Do you want me to whack him? Off him? Whack him off?" - last night on the Family Guy.
I don't want to get into a flame war on this, but in defense of Java:
Java doesn't let you use primitives (int, short, etc) as classes without wrapping them yourself (lots of overhead).
java.lang.Number and subclasses. Immutable, but classes. Changing them to be mutable (?), I don't see that as lots of overhead...
Java doesn't let you drop down to native code and turn off the garbage collector if you need to. Or use pointers if you want to talk to the underlying C-based OS.
JNI?
Java doesn't have a "foreach" statement.
That's what the Iterator interface is for.
Java doesn't have property-handlers (eg. write functions that are treated as member variables - eg:
a.setName("MyName") would become: a.Name = "MyName" - but it would still go through a function.
These are great for encapsulation.
This, I suppose, is preference... If I say a.Name = "X", maybe I'm trying to avoid the setName function, presuming Name is accessible. Personally, I don't think this is a help to making the code more readable.
Java doesn't support indexers (methods on a class - say List, which allow you to take the object of type List, and use it like an array - eg:
List l;
l[index] = "asjdasid"
Vector v = new Vector();
v.setElementAt("asjdasid", 0);
???
I suppose the point is, C# has different ways of accomplishing the same things Java can.
The real question is: Does C# have enough new functionality to draw the masses to it? I'll wager time can answer that for us...
I guess it gets into security. I do believe in the idea of a central repository for data. Call it the 'core', the 'mainframe', the 'crypt' (i wish), whatever. But, for that idea to work, I see two fundamental needs:
1. A fast, reliable network connection from anywhere (within reason).
B. Extremely tough, reliable, trusted encryption for your data.
We have neither now, nor would most of us trust Microsoft to provide the latter. This is an evolutionary process, and this idea, stemming from Sun/*nix environs, is being tested by MS. MS seems to be attempting to adapt to the Internet era (yow! did i just say that?).
I'll wager they're not successful b/c they don't understand security. Their whole OS philosophy stems from the single, standalone machine days. Anyway, enough of that.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I don't know if I buy this crap about meta tags.
If I want to search for cola sodas and I type in Coke, I think I'd like to see all the cola soda sites out there, not just Coke.
So if this meta tag crap is legal, why can't I sue my competitor for appearing next to my add in the Yellow Pages. That's a search, right? Maybe Coke should sue Pepsi b/c Pepsi appears right next to Coke in the grocery store. That's a search too. Hell, why can't Coke sue me for saying Pepsi in the same sentence, I'm probably not treating their trademark with proper respect and obedience.
Ahhhh! I hate lawyers and American law. It's so NOT about truth and justice.
The truth lies somewhere between 'Famous Potatoes' and 'Live Free Or Die'. (George Carlin paraphrased).
P.S., For all those about to point out the Yellow Pages argument flaw, pretend it's the white pages and the company names are "Al's Tires" and "Amy's Tires". If you don't like Al and Amy, contrive your own names such that they're close together in the alphabet. That's not the point.
Agreed.
The only problem is those California Silicon bastages are selling those houses and moving here, the Denver/Boulder corridor. Where they buy houses at list. Which drives prices up. Which forces me to buy in a town like Longmont, where the rednecks are plentiful and they still smoke in restaurants. I hate that.
I mean, I found myself laughing my ass off at the closed bids you guys were doing out there. People coming in well over the asking price and still not getting the place. But now, just a couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine put a bid in $500 over the asking price on a condo b/c someone else was putting in a bid that day. She got it, the other person's bid was at asking price. THIS IS INSANITY!
You sons-a-bitches. :-)
Moderators, you may think this is offtopic, but it IS happening. They're all here: Sun, HP, IBM, Level 3, and many more...
One more thing. How do you post a new thread. I don't see any links for that...
In deed, sir. ;-) I've built the following with Java: CORBA wrapper around a legacy app (speaking sockets) for integration into C-based CGI code. (yes, that's C based CGI scripting. yuck!) Inventory management app for Bell Atlantic (initial rollout was 500+ users in various sites). Note: The app was in swing and a bit sluggish, but that was because their deployment machines turned out to be P100's rather than the minimum P166s in the requirements doc. EJB based app for a small Silicon startup (through design and prototype). Data entry app on a handheld device running 95 and various CE based devices (going to beta in a few weeks). So since my C days (which were post Perl), I've been involved in several Java based projects. All have been successful (read: they were deployed and are still in use). Now don't get me wrong. I HATE Swing. I think it's buggy, slow, and stupid that when I run a swing app on Linux, it looks like SH*T (e.g., a motif window in Enlightenment). Anyway, I'd much prefer all my apps have the same look and feel on the desktop. But that's me. Recently I've been developing a web based product using JSP/Servlets. I think that this is where Java truly shines. Middle tier. Low performance requirements (relative to gaming). Business logic intensive. No GUI. $.02