I realize I'm a few days late, but Thank You! I keep reading about how best to terraform Mars, when I keep thinking that the question should be not *how* to terraform Mars, but *if* we should terraform Mars. It makes absolutely no sense to just throw something from Earth to another place without completely checking it out first.
We build satellites in clean rooms, not only to make sure the satellites themselves work properly, but also to make sure that there is no such contamination from Earth possible. And if we're scared of Martian infection, so that we plan on isolating any soil samples that come back from Mars, what gives us the right to potentially put any life on Mars in danger with our contamination? And I know someone else already mentioned this, but if we're not even sure of how plants survive in different locations on Earth, then how the hell are we supposed to determine, and control, how those plants will survive on another place that we know, relatively speaking, almost nothing about?
I'm not saying that we shouldn't go to other planets, but there is just so much that we could learn from life on Mars if some was ever found. I just wish that there were more people concerned with a) fixing life on Earth, for starters, before we mess up someplace else, and b) fixing the space program and its associated products so that a spacecraft carrying those plants doesn't end up crashing into the damn Moon, or just fly around Mars for the rest of eternity.
sigh... I guess I'll just have to run for president.
well, alrighta then. Thanks for all the support, guys. >sniff
Well, I'm still happy about the series -- it's still cool. Although now I am noticing some CGI discrepancies. Oh well. I buy games for graphics and for plot lines, and this mini-series has got me in both, so there you go. I'll let everyone know exactly at what point I don't like the mini-series anymore.:) OK, not really.
As someone, I am ashamed to admit in such a forum, who has not seen the 1984 (?) movie, nor read the actual book (go lazy bums! yeah!), I thought the first part last night was very very cool. Very interesting, and I am definitely going to go back to watch the movie and read the books.
I mean, I have a general idea of the story from other people telling it to me, but that's just not enough for Dune. The whole plot line is just so complex and the characters are so interesting. I wonder how I managed to *not* read it all these years.
I realize all this is probably preaching to the converted, but I'd like to mention that at the very least this mini-series is attracting those of us who haven't had the chance to read the book or watch the movie yet. I'd say it's converting some people, which is probably always a good thing when it comes to SciFi.
The only part I *didn't* like about the show last night was my roommate saying multiple times, "It's not Harkahnnen, it's *Harkohnnen*." Sigh. Oh well. Time to sit down and read.
OK, I have to mention this again, simply to drive the point home. I have had many many religious/philosophical/cosmological/dumb-ass discussions with several different people about this general subject.
It really really really REALLY pisses me off that I was so ready to contradict Rees' major point, that life couldn't exist without these numbers, that I had to read through the majority of the article before that one intelligent line, which I honestly think means a LOT in this discussion, came up: "life as we know it". People constantly seem to forget that "life as we know it" is so narrow and yet so vague. We know we are carbon-based. I'm beginning to wonder if this guy has ever seen Star Trek or Star Wars, or any Sci-Fi for that matter. There are so many possibilities out there of different forms/consciousnesses of life, in possibly an inifinite number of universes, that we cannot decide what exactly "life as we know it" means, and yet, we should be aware of the fact that that definition is so narrow. There are possibly an infinite number of life forms out there, even.
And honestly, if *one* of those numbers is off, then what does that really mean? I mean, true, I wouldn't be the person I am today, if I had been born one minute before I really was born. I would be slightly different, most likely, but not universe-life-altering-different. I might think a little different, or maybe be slightly shorter or something, but this would not have an effect on my ability to live. I think the same thing happens with these numbers. That, AND the fact that whenever certain numbers just *have* to be Just So, that usually indicates they are related. I've thought of the philosophical implications (while I was supposed to be doing Physics homework, so it's excusable, maybe. Maybe I was just tired.) of the whole concept of, say, addition. If x + y = 3, then isn't it Just Amazing how x just HAS to be 2, and y just HAS to be 1? Or the other way around. But it's not that amazing, it's just the fact that the two numbers are, in fact, related.
In closing of my rants (thanks to all for bearing with me), I am convinced that an Underlying Theory of Everything (TM) exists. I am also convinced that Life as We Know It probably only really exists here, as we really do know it. In some other universe, chances are really small that that universe would be *exactly* the same, so as to create the *exact* same conditions for life, and you and me, as we know it. And I'm perfectly convinced that multiple universes, perhaps an infinite amount, exist.
That all said, I believe that sufficiently advanced science is STILL indistinguishable from magic. Go Merlin.
Slashdot Mirror
I realize I'm a few days late, but Thank You! I keep reading about how best to terraform Mars, when I keep thinking that the question should be not *how* to terraform Mars, but *if* we should terraform Mars. It makes absolutely no sense to just throw something from Earth to another place without completely checking it out first.
We build satellites in clean rooms, not only to make sure the satellites themselves work properly, but also to make sure that there is no such contamination from Earth possible. And if we're scared of Martian infection, so that we plan on isolating any soil samples that come back from Mars, what gives us the right to potentially put any life on Mars in danger with our contamination? And I know someone else already mentioned this, but if we're not even sure of how plants survive in different locations on Earth, then how the hell are we supposed to determine, and control, how those plants will survive on another place that we know, relatively speaking, almost nothing about?
I'm not saying that we shouldn't go to other planets, but there is just so much that we could learn from life on Mars if some was ever found. I just wish that there were more people concerned with a) fixing life on Earth, for starters, before we mess up someplace else, and b) fixing the space program and its associated products so that a spacecraft carrying those plants doesn't end up crashing into the damn Moon, or just fly around Mars for the rest of eternity.
sigh... I guess I'll just have to run for president.
well, alrighta then. Thanks for all the support, guys. >sniff
:) OK, not really.
:)
Well, I'm still happy about the series -- it's still cool. Although now I am noticing some CGI discrepancies. Oh well. I buy games for graphics and for plot lines, and this mini-series has got me in both, so there you go. I'll let everyone know exactly at what point I don't like the mini-series anymore.
Anywho, time to go read some more.
As someone, I am ashamed to admit in such a forum, who has not seen the 1984 (?) movie, nor read the actual book (go lazy bums! yeah!), I thought the first part last night was very very cool. Very interesting, and I am definitely going to go back to watch the movie and read the books.
I mean, I have a general idea of the story from other people telling it to me, but that's just not enough for Dune. The whole plot line is just so complex and the characters are so interesting. I wonder how I managed to *not* read it all these years.
I realize all this is probably preaching to the converted, but I'd like to mention that at the very least this mini-series is attracting those of us who haven't had the chance to read the book or watch the movie yet. I'd say it's converting some people, which is probably always a good thing when it comes to SciFi.
The only part I *didn't* like about the show last night was my roommate saying multiple times, "It's not Harkahnnen, it's *Harkohnnen*." Sigh. Oh well. Time to sit down and read.
OK, I have to mention this again, simply to drive the point home. I have had many many religious/philosophical/cosmological/dumb-ass discussions with several different people about this general subject.
It really really really REALLY pisses me off that I was so ready to contradict Rees' major point, that life couldn't exist without these numbers, that I had to read through the majority of the article before that one intelligent line, which I honestly think means a LOT in this discussion, came up: "life as we know it". People constantly seem to forget that "life as we know it" is so narrow and yet so vague. We know we are carbon-based. I'm beginning to wonder if this guy has ever seen Star Trek or Star Wars, or any Sci-Fi for that matter. There are so many possibilities out there of different forms/consciousnesses of life, in possibly an inifinite number of universes, that we cannot decide what exactly "life as we know it" means, and yet, we should be aware of the fact that that definition is so narrow. There are possibly an infinite number of life forms out there, even.
And honestly, if *one* of those numbers is off, then what does that really mean? I mean, true, I wouldn't be the person I am today, if I had been born one minute before I really was born. I would be slightly different, most likely, but not universe-life-altering-different. I might think a little different, or maybe be slightly shorter or something, but this would not have an effect on my ability to live. I think the same thing happens with these numbers. That, AND the fact that whenever certain numbers just *have* to be Just So, that usually indicates they are related. I've thought of the philosophical implications (while I was supposed to be doing Physics homework, so it's excusable, maybe. Maybe I was just tired.) of the whole concept of, say, addition. If x + y = 3, then isn't it Just Amazing how x just HAS to be 2, and y just HAS to be 1? Or the other way around. But it's not that amazing, it's just the fact that the two numbers are, in fact, related.
In closing of my rants (thanks to all for bearing with me), I am convinced that an Underlying Theory of Everything (TM) exists. I am also convinced that Life as We Know It probably only really exists here, as we really do know it. In some other universe, chances are really small that that universe would be *exactly* the same, so as to create the *exact* same conditions for life, and you and me, as we know it. And I'm perfectly convinced that multiple universes, perhaps an infinite amount, exist.
That all said, I believe that sufficiently advanced science is STILL indistinguishable from magic. Go Merlin.
OK. Done with the rant.