If you held a vote, the American people wouldn't support it
BULL! George Bush Senior ran on a free trade platform for the economy. So did Clinton. Their views were clearly stated. They won the election. Don't tell me no one voted for free trade.
IBM makes money off of hardware and support. They also make lots of money off their non-OSS solutions
Nowhere did I claim their business was exclusively open source/free software.
O'Reilly seems to sell a lot of books (which are intellectual property and copyrighted and not open for free distribution) but they do have some online and you can download some.
Uh, What I am trying to say is that they have a tertiary product that exists only because of open source. How many copies of Programming Perl would be sold without perl? 0.
I haven't seen where I can download the source to Yahoo/Google's search engines or other software that they wrote. Perhaps they are consumers of OSS and make money via advertisements, but they aren't producing any OSS that I've seen.
Of course they have a free product based on open source - THEIR SITES. As for the source - try "view source" and save. They may not publish the code to their crawler, but all of the infrastructure they use, you can use too.
First of all, I offer these counterarguments to his premise that open source cannot make money: IBM,RedHat,Novell,MySQL,O'Reilly Publishing,Yahoo,Google, etc etc etc
The bottom line is that there are a lot of people who grok the new model and take home a check. I'm sorry he doesn't maybe he can catch the next meme before it gets fully exploited by someone else.
Also the author needs to realize that the world is bigger than his viewport. In the developing world free software is the reality - no one is going to spend a month's wages to buy an OS.
The software market is changing - free software, open source and outsourcing are driving costs down and pushing commoditization. Some will benefit, some will get crushed. Trying to stand in the way is an excellent way to make yourself irrelvant and broke.
Yes outsourcing is sending away great jobs. Duly noted.
Yes outsourcing is putting thousands of people out of work. Duly noted.
Yes outsourcing is driving down wages. Duly noted.
Everything you would ever want to carp about regarding outsourcing has been stated, you do not need to retransmit. The issue is now what are you going to do about reality. Are you going to bellyache about it and hope your low-grade tech skills will somehow merit $80k again? Or are you going to find those spaces where outsourcing won't or can't go and pursue ruthlessly?
The US has spent a quarter century ramming free trade down the world's throat and gleefully telling everyone else to "deal with change!". Well now that goes for you too. Outsourcing is reality. Route around it or be a victim. EOM.
This cleans up the namespace nicely when the fantazillion programs that require X really cant be run anyway.
You do realize that this makes no sense, right? X programs will not run if there is no X server running. If you want to type 'xeyes' at the console prompt you should get the appropriate error message and leave it at that. Your premise is that xeyes should be in a special directory but mozilla shouldn't (???????).
First of all, "real" voting systems are prone to "hacks" too - look at the election of 2000. Ballots are lost, they are fudged, they are counted multiple times...I don't think people have an appreciation for the flaws inherent in the current system, which is also outrageously expensive over the long term.
We need to think carefully about this tech but we also need to embrace it. We already let automation run our reactors, manager all of our money, keep us from running into each other at intersections, etc.
Re:Hopeful about the post-X era
on
XFree86 4.4 Released
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Uhhh, moving those tools out of the X11R6 subdir would break anything that expects those files to be there. Besides it's part of the Linux Standard Base and therefore not likely to be changed after all of the work that went into LSB.
Well the LSB can be modified. Its not intended to encode sloppy practices and bad design. Just make some symlinks to honor the past and move on. As for "breaking everything"...this is ridiculous. The distro vendor should be able to resolve this change trivially even without a symlink.
This is the first version of X that many of its end packagers (linux distros, bsds, etc) have explicitly rejected. What will be the motivation to pursue further development that no one is using? This group just (xFree) 86'd themselves with petty sqaubbling. Thanks for the memories but I think its goodnight Vienna for XFree86.
Come on, are you telling me when something ticks you off about a piece of code you download the tarball or cvs the code and learn the whole thing and dedicate yourself to its betterment??? I hope nothing about the kernel or Mozilla or Mysql tick you off or you are looking at six months of hard study.
Smart does not imply creative. Their research will be shaped by what Google is already doing - it is hard for people to truly get a new perspective - this is what the market provides for through competition.
Also the risk-taking will drop off a cliff once they are public. The litmus test for new products is much more stringent once you have quarterly reports. And yes, they are going to have an IPO, stop debating it.
The bar will be raised everywhere
on
Search Beyond Google
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Someone of course will come in not so much with a better search, but a different search, and that will be equated with better. The major search engines will have to fold in these innovations to stay relevant. The newcomer will have to adopt the best of the entrenched players if they want to last. All around its a big win for users, until that fateful and unavoidable day when people start to realize that uber-searches are the de facto "big brother" everyone fears will materialze at some point.
Most of the people who used to catalog web pages now place paid listings or do other gruntish (but revenue-driven) work. Its been this way for probably three years now.
Don't be so naive though to think Google is a room of computers. When people write in to complain about kiddie porn, removal requests, etc, this must be handled by a person, just like at any search site.
Partly its for tracking, buts its also to prevent spoofing. That redirect is signed so they know exactly where you are being linked to, and they can audit this in their records. Sorry, this is Yahoo looking out for users, not penalizing them.
I want this thing to go to court so we can hear arguments that actually have consequences. Really, no matter how it ends, it ends well for open source. If the very best thing happens, SCO is vaporized in the markets after the judgement against it. In the very worst case, IBM gets hammered, linux essentially becomes quasi-legal, and we can embark on the largest and most productive exercise in civil disobedience in a generation.
The problem with charging access is that you are under the gun to deliver great content every day without a burp. The WSJ had some great content but on many days it was just rehashing the wire feeds. Sorry, but I can get AP and Reuters elsewhere for free.
Slashdot Mirror
BULL! George Bush Senior ran on a free trade platform for the economy. So did Clinton. Their views were clearly stated. They won the election. Don't tell me no one voted for free trade.
Nowhere did I claim their business was exclusively open source/free software.
O'Reilly seems to sell a lot of books (which are intellectual property and copyrighted and not open for free distribution) but they do have some online and you can download some.
Uh, What I am trying to say is that they have a tertiary product that exists only because of open source. How many copies of Programming Perl would be sold without perl? 0.
I haven't seen where I can download the source to Yahoo/Google's search engines or other software that they wrote. Perhaps they are consumers of OSS and make money via advertisements, but they aren't producing any OSS that I've seen.
Of course they have a free product based on open source - THEIR SITES. As for the source - try "view source" and save. They may not publish the code to their crawler, but all of the infrastructure they use, you can use too.
The bottom line is that there are a lot of people who grok the new model and take home a check. I'm sorry he doesn't maybe he can catch the next meme before it gets fully exploited by someone else.
Also the author needs to realize that the world is bigger than his viewport. In the developing world free software is the reality - no one is going to spend a month's wages to buy an OS.
The software market is changing - free software, open source and outsourcing are driving costs down and pushing commoditization. Some will benefit, some will get crushed. Trying to stand in the way is an excellent way to make yourself irrelvant and broke.
Yes outsourcing is putting thousands of people out of work. Duly noted.
Yes outsourcing is driving down wages. Duly noted.
Everything you would ever want to carp about regarding outsourcing has been stated, you do not need to retransmit. The issue is now what are you going to do about reality. Are you going to bellyache about it and hope your low-grade tech skills will somehow merit $80k again? Or are you going to find those spaces where outsourcing won't or can't go and pursue ruthlessly?
The US has spent a quarter century ramming free trade down the world's throat and gleefully telling everyone else to "deal with change!". Well now that goes for you too. Outsourcing is reality. Route around it or be a victim. EOM.
Blah, blah blah. Your 15 minute break is over, go back and man the fryer and then take out the trash.
Freedsktop.org has been working on this for some time. (duh)
You do realize that this makes no sense, right? X programs will not run if there is no X server running. If you want to type 'xeyes' at the console prompt you should get the appropriate error message and leave it at that. Your premise is that xeyes should be in a special directory but mozilla shouldn't (???????).
I still don't get the counterargs. We wouldn't accept /gnome or /kde or /mozilla but /X11R6 is acceptable??
86ed
We need to think carefully about this tech but we also need to embrace it. We already let automation run our reactors, manager all of our money, keep us from running into each other at intersections, etc.
Well the LSB can be modified. Its not intended to encode sloppy practices and bad design. Just make some symlinks to honor the past and move on. As for "breaking everything"...this is ridiculous. The distro vendor should be able to resolve this change trivially even without a symlink.
Face it, the X file layout is broken!
Do you even know what I am referring to in my original post?
X11R6 name is derived from the old MIT X Windows Version 11 releases. It is not a XFree86-ism.
Well, thats why I labelled my post the "post Xera". My point is that the entire /X11R6 subdis a groaning anachronism and sloppy design.
Can we get rid of the X11R6 subdir? (once again, stop thinking X is a world to itself)?
Just two suggestions for the post-XFree86 era.
This is the first version of X that many of its end packagers (linux distros, bsds, etc) have explicitly rejected. What will be the motivation to pursue further development that no one is using? This group just (xFree) 86'd themselves with petty sqaubbling. Thanks for the memories but I think its goodnight Vienna for XFree86.
Taco, the whole banning thing is blunt and ridiculous. Buy more servers or built some traffic shaping code that works.
Yahoo News also carries RSS feeds, but /. has banned all of the users from updating the feed.
Come on, are you telling me when something ticks you off about a piece of code you download the tarball or cvs the code and learn the whole thing and dedicate yourself to its betterment??? I hope nothing about the kernel or Mozilla or Mysql tick you off or you are looking at six months of hard study.
The better point might be that there are fewer names in open source more derided than ESR.
Also the risk-taking will drop off a cliff once they are public. The litmus test for new products is much more stringent once you have quarterly reports. And yes, they are going to have an IPO, stop debating it.
Someone of course will come in not so much with a better search, but a different search, and that will be equated with better. The major search engines will have to fold in these innovations to stay relevant. The newcomer will have to adopt the best of the entrenched players if they want to last. All around its a big win for users, until that fateful and unavoidable day when people start to realize that uber-searches are the de facto "big brother" everyone fears will materialze at some point.
Don't be so naive though to think Google is a room of computers. When people write in to complain about kiddie porn, removal requests, etc, this must be handled by a person, just like at any search site.
Partly its for tracking, buts its also to prevent spoofing. That redirect is signed so they know exactly where you are being linked to, and they can audit this in their records. Sorry, this is Yahoo looking out for users, not penalizing them.
Posse Comitatus - read about it
I want this thing to go to court so we can hear arguments that actually have consequences. Really, no matter how it ends, it ends well for open source. If the very best thing happens, SCO is vaporized in the markets after the judgement against it. In the very worst case, IBM gets hammered, linux essentially becomes quasi-legal, and we can embark on the largest and most productive exercise in civil disobedience in a generation.
The problem with charging access is that you are under the gun to deliver great content every day without a burp. The WSJ had some great content but on many days it was just rehashing the wire feeds. Sorry, but I can get AP and Reuters elsewhere for free.