They can lob bombs over at us from out of range, launch guided missles from over the horizon... or hell, just fly a bit higher when they drop the bombs.
True about the missiles, but
here's an odd little fact - the range of the Bofors (a 60+ year old weapon) is almost exactly the same as the flight ceiling for Predator UAVs.
But arguing about what kills more people is missing the point entirely. The problem is not that people can find some creative ways to kill other people, the problem is that currently it is very easy for a kid who has problems to grab a handgun and gun down whoever he doesn't like. The solution is not just outlawing guns, part of the solution probably has to be figuring out who these kids are and helping them adjust better to whatever they are going through, however, saying that because there are crazy people out there killing other people then we shouldn't do anything about school shootings is a bit like saying we should not spend any money researching a cure for cancer because people still sometimes die of the flu.
I completely agree with you - mentally unstable people should not be able to access firearms... or machetes, or sledgehammers, or even matches in some cases. But I never said we "shouldn't do anything" about this issue. I merely pointed out that OP's contention (no guns == lower body counts) is completely wrong and flies in the face of reality.
And I thought people on slashdot knew about logic. No one said the only wai to kill people is with guns. Your counter argument doesn't counter the argument.
Look; I'll make it easy - here's the post I responded to:
if all guns were gone tomorrow, loonies would still kill people.
In much smaller numbers.
So, OP is pretty much implying that if guns were no longer in existence, crazy folks would still go on killing sprees but the body count would be far lower (if he had another meaning he should have elucidated, I'm not a mind-reader).
I countered that point by providing an example of an instance where a crazy person killed almost 200 people without a gun.
If that's not what you consider a counter argument, you don't know what the word "argument" means.
It's not that tablets are "killing" e-reader sales - it's that, for the price of a feature-rich e-reader, I could just buy a damn tablet that does a lot more than display text.
Case in point: Amazon's Paperwhite Kindle is $130 (without warranty or any accessories), and only functions as an ebook reader. The Nexus 7, for $120 more, is a full-fledged Android powerhouse.
Yeah, more people firing weapons with panicky children running around, what could go wrong?
If this were a discussion about drunk driving, you could say the same thing about the number of driver's licenses issued, and it would still be a strawman.
I can tell you one thing that wouldn't have happened, though - the lunatic would not have been able to go through the school completely unopposed. Hell, the knowledge that any of the faculty might have the equipment to put his rampage to an end may have even prevented the incident entirely.
Well, though the massacre of innocent children may not be "stuff that matters" to you, not all of nerd-dom are piece-of-shit egotists who can't see beyond the end of their own noses.
The Conservatives in this country are already formulating their excuses for this tragedy... I mean, you can't go out and buy hand grenades or bazookas at Walmart.
Ironic little bit of ad hominem you got there, douchebag.
It's T-3 hours from a tragic killing of 18 kids and you're already throwing politics into this discussion? Please. If 18 kids were stabbed would you be talking about banning kitchen knives? No amount of written law is going to prevent psychopaths who want to kill innocent kids.
Your political trolling makes me sicker than this news story.
if all guns were gone tomorrow, loonies would still kill people.
In much smaller numbers.
1995 - Oklahoma City, OK:
Timothy McVeigh detonates a home-made truck bomb in front of the Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people, 19 of which were children, and wounding almost 1000 more.
Many a gun proponent has been turned by having a spouse or child killed. The rest just don't believe it can ever happen to them.
Many gun opponents have been turned by having a spouse or child killed, while they watched, defenseless. The rest just don't believe it can ever happen to them.
Slashdot Mirror
... and almost useless against modern aircraft.
They can lob bombs over at us from out of range, launch guided missles from over the horizon... or hell, just fly a bit higher when they drop the bombs.
True about the missiles, but here's an odd little fact - the range of the Bofors (a 60+ year old weapon) is almost exactly the same as the flight ceiling for Predator UAVs.
It's called a thought experiment. Of course, to understand it you actually have to be able to think.
Cute ad hominem there. Can't attack the message, so you attack the messenger? Classy.
I notice you didn't respond to the second half of the comment.
Didn't think that poor dead horse deserved another beating.
That's never happened; and no, it doesn't.
Astute retort, dumbfuck.
Yeah sure, Mom thinks for the rest of her life "If only I could have shot the murderer that killed my kid".
Bullshit - giving Mom a gun wouldn't necessarily prevent the kid from being shot. Taking the gun from the killer would.
Anecdote != fact. Especially an anecdote you just pulled from your ass.
But arguing about what kills more people is missing the point entirely. The problem is not that people can find some creative ways to kill other people, the problem is that currently it is very easy for a kid who has problems to grab a handgun and gun down whoever he doesn't like. The solution is not just outlawing guns, part of the solution probably has to be figuring out who these kids are and helping them adjust better to whatever they are going through, however, saying that because there are crazy people out there killing other people then we shouldn't do anything about school shootings is a bit like saying we should not spend any money researching a cure for cancer because people still sometimes die of the flu.
I completely agree with you - mentally unstable people should not be able to access firearms... or machetes, or sledgehammers, or even matches in some cases. But I never said we "shouldn't do anything" about this issue. I merely pointed out that OP's contention (no guns == lower body counts) is completely wrong and flies in the face of reality.
And I thought people on slashdot knew about logic. No one said the only wai to kill people is with guns. Your counter argument doesn't counter the argument.
Look; I'll make it easy - here's the post I responded to:
if all guns were gone tomorrow, loonies would still kill people.
In much smaller numbers.
So, OP is pretty much implying that if guns were no longer in existence, crazy folks would still go on killing sprees but the body count would be far lower (if he had another meaning he should have elucidated, I'm not a mind-reader).
I countered that point by providing an example of an instance where a crazy person killed almost 200 people without a gun.
If that's not what you consider a counter argument, you don't know what the word "argument" means.
But if there are less guns, it's less likely gun violence will occur.
Less guns = less gun violence. Pretty straightforward.
Except the fact that's a complete fantasy.
really, one case against the piles and piles of data in other countries that show, overall a clear reduction?
Figures you don't seem able or willing to cite. I suppose we're all just supposed to take your word for it? Right; and I'm the King of Wales.
You are nothing but a cherry picking bastard.
Sayeth the cherry picking bastard who selectively quotes statistics that support his position, and ignores one's that don't, like these.
Yea, you just keep telling yourself you've got the moral high ground here. Maybe, eventually, you'll convince someone else of that.
It's not that tablets are "killing" e-reader sales - it's that, for the price of a feature-rich e-reader, I could just buy a damn tablet that does a lot more than display text.
Case in point: Amazon's Paperwhite Kindle is $130 (without warranty or any accessories), and only functions as an ebook reader. The Nexus 7, for $120 more, is a full-fledged Android powerhouse.
It's easy math.
Many gun opponents have been turned by having a spouse or child killed, while they watched, defenseless.
Perhaps you should as Mrs Brady that?
Yin, meet Yang.
Really? Trolling makes you sicker than 18 dead children? Really? How is life as a sociopath?
I'm not the douchebag trying to profit from the deaths of innocents to push my own agenda, and I really don't give a shit what you think.
Someone should mod a ti89 with newer chipset and android OS.
Would this be equivalent?
Caveat: I am not a "math person."
Martial arts would be a far more useful and appropriate self defense weapon than any gun.
Sure it would
Citation?
You first.
Yeah, more people firing weapons with panicky children running around, what could go wrong?
If this were a discussion about drunk driving, you could say the same thing about the number of driver's licenses issued, and it would still be a strawman.
I can tell you one thing that wouldn't have happened, though - the lunatic would not have been able to go through the school completely unopposed. Hell, the knowledge that any of the faculty might have the equipment to put his rampage to an end may have even prevented the incident entirely.
Apparently in 1998, there were 121 accidental firearm deaths in children 15 and under.
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/whitney.pdf
Much better than 20+ dead.
Can you cite any sources that aren't over a decade old?
Lot of shit can change in 14 years.
To answer you oil filter question. A screw driver poked through it.
Awesome. Guess I'll have to come up with a worse hint next time!
You can be my friend now.
Engineering is more along the lines of how big a disk brake and pad do I need to stop this vehicle within 10 metres at 100km.
Meh. All a matter of perspective, the way I see things.
I take it you have never lived south of the Mason-Dixon Line, east of the Rockies, or west of the Mississippi.
I have lived smack in the middle of Missouri my entire life.
I'd wager I know my neighbors a lot better than one of those coast-dwelling, elitist pricks who refer to this area as "flyover country."
Well, though the massacre of innocent children may not be "stuff that matters" to you, not all of nerd-dom are piece-of-shit egotists who can't see beyond the end of their own noses.
Prick.
The Conservatives in this country are already formulating their excuses for this tragedy... I mean, you can't go out and buy hand grenades or bazookas at Walmart.
Ironic little bit of ad hominem you got there, douchebag.
It's T-3 hours from a tragic killing of 18 kids and you're already throwing politics into this discussion? Please. If 18 kids were stabbed would you be talking about banning kitchen knives? No amount of written law is going to prevent psychopaths who want to kill innocent kids. Your political trolling makes me sicker than this news story.
Thank you.
40mm Bofors anti-aircraft gun.
Largest rifle in the world.
Legal for US civilians to own.
if all guns were gone tomorrow, loonies would still kill people.
In much smaller numbers.
1995 - Oklahoma City, OK:
Timothy McVeigh detonates a home-made truck bomb in front of the Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people, 19 of which were children, and wounding almost 1000 more.
Not a single bullet was fired.
In other words, you're dead fucking wrong.
Many a gun proponent has been turned by having a spouse or child killed. The rest just don't believe it can ever happen to them.
Many gun opponents have been turned by having a spouse or child killed, while they watched, defenseless. The rest just don't believe it can ever happen to them.
The street - she runs both ways.
But the 2nd doesn't apply... it's a "Gun Free Zone". Isn't this what you wanted?
Yeah, if only those kindergartners were armed, right? FFS
Yea! I mean, it's not like there's a single adult in an elementary school, right?
Sheesh...