Let me give you some background first so you know where I'm coming from.
I've been using Novell Netware since it ran on an XT (Netware/86- required 640k of RAM abt 1985). I've been a CNE since '93. I've been using Windows on my desktop since about '88 (2.0ish - 286 w/16MB ram). I've been using Linux since about 1992 (not sure which kernel - 0.something). I've used Solaris in an ISP environment since late 94. I've been using FreeBSD since about 95 (2.2.x). I've also set up/administered systems with NT, SCO, DYNIX/PTX (Sequent) and so on. I've also done my stint with low level programming and TCP/IP development, etc. etc. etc.
I've been consulting and doing independent system/LAN administration for at least 15 years, pushing the bleeding edge well before my clients.
Today, the best commercial product out there for File/Print is Netware. Period. Yes, it's expensive, but compare the bottom line with NT and you'll find that NetWare is actually much cheaper. I have printouts of servers which have uptimes of over a Year. I get calls over down servers usually only over a hardware failure, as that is about the only time it dies. In short it works and works well.
On the other side of the commercial arena is NT. I've supported NT. If I was into wanting to being able to bill my clients lots of hours and causing them lots of frustration, I would recommend NT to them. But in reality, I have more work than I can handle, so I don't. I'd rather see a customer put a peer-to-peer network in place than use a NT server. Note I'm talking about File and Print here. About the only place I'd use a NT server is in those applications where it is required for a specific need. And then, I would recommend that the client run that app and only that app on it.
Now, back to the question at hand.
Would I pull out a *working* Novell Server and replace it with ANY other OS just for the sake of being "supported" by Novell?
Nope.
Would I potentially consider using an alternative system in place of a Novell Server if the server needed to be upgraded?
Probably.
I'm going to digress a minute before I come back and explain that:
My opinion on Linux vs BSD (and FreeBSD in particular, as I haven't dove into the others yet) is that BSD makes a much better SERVER than Linux does, and that Linux makes a much better CLIENT than BSD does. For server applications, I would never consider Linux at this point. I just don't trust it as much as I do FreeBSD. I might be brainwashed by the BSD camp, so please don't flame me for this - but I really feel that the FreeBSD development methodology is better at producing consistent, stable, mission-critical code than the Linux method. I also feel that the Linux method is much better at getting those apps you NEED on the desktop ported.
That said, I would STRONGLY consider putting in a FreeBSD box running Samba to do file/print. I just haven't found the right client - well that's a little bit of a lie, the ISP I do sysadmin for has a corporate server running FreeBSD and Samba. To make a long story short - this client is more technical savy than most, and as such is better equipped to deal with the FreeBSD box.
In any case, it sounds like the original poster's client was worried about Support. About the only way you're going to get commercial support, is to upgrade Novell. (Or move to NT, but again I didn't mention that)
If they really aren't worried about support, I'd say leave the Novell server in place until such time as the server is not doing what it needs to do anymore (i.e. not fast enough, server old enough you're worried about relability, etc.) then look at the upgrade options. Then, if the client is technical savvy enough, consider a switch to a Open Source OS.
One piece of information which is lacking is the size of the firm this is for. In a larger firm, the value of Netware's NDS becomes much more critical. If you've got a hundred desktops managing them with Netware and NDS and ZenWorks is almost trivial cost-wise compared to any other option. In this larger environment the cost of the server licensing is dwarfed by the PC support costs.
One final comment - make sure you look at Novell's Netware for Small business. A 5 user upgrade is around $1000, or $200/seat, but it includes not only the Netware but also Netscape Enterprise server, A web cache, NetObjects Fusion (web editor), McAfee Netshield & Virusscan, Tobit Faxware and Groupwise. The added value of Groupwise Alone might pay for the upgrade costs.
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact: Christian, Forrest W (FWC) forrestc@IMACH.COM The Innovation Machine P.O. Box 5749 Helena, MT 59604-5749 406-442-6648
Record last updated on 31-Dec-1997. Record expires on 01-Jan-2001. Record created on 31-Dec-1997. Database last updated on 30-Jun-2000 23:32:34 EDT.
And it looks like I've hated them since at least december of 1997. Don't remember why I registered it but I remember I was pissed.
USWorst is the WORST local carrier. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I've heard anything good about Qwest. Most likely, they will take the worst from both companies.
I could tell you horror stories after horror stories. Current story is that USWest is having a major marketing promotion in the local area for DSL service which they are currently out of capacity for AND don't expect to have fixed until October or November.
Slashdot Mirror
I've been using Novell Netware since it ran on an XT (Netware/86- required 640k of RAM abt 1985). I've been a CNE since '93. I've been using Windows on my desktop since about '88 (2.0ish - 286 w/16MB ram). I've been using Linux since about 1992 (not sure which kernel - 0.something). I've used Solaris in an ISP environment since late 94. I've been using FreeBSD since about 95 (2.2.x). I've also set up/administered systems with NT, SCO, DYNIX/PTX (Sequent) and so on. I've also done my stint with low level programming and TCP/IP development, etc. etc. etc.
I've been consulting and doing independent system/LAN administration for at least 15 years, pushing the bleeding edge well before my clients.
Today, the best commercial product out there for File/Print is Netware. Period. Yes, it's expensive, but compare the bottom line with NT and you'll find that NetWare is actually much cheaper. I have printouts of servers which have uptimes of over a Year. I get calls over down servers usually only over a hardware failure, as that is about the only time it dies. In short it works and works well.
On the other side of the commercial arena is NT. I've supported NT. If I was into wanting to being able to bill my clients lots of hours and causing them lots of frustration, I would recommend NT to them. But in reality, I have more work than I can handle, so I don't. I'd rather see a customer put a peer-to-peer network in place than use a NT server. Note I'm talking about File and Print here. About the only place I'd use a NT server is in those applications where it is required for a specific need. And then, I would recommend that the client run that app and only that app on it.
Now, back to the question at hand.
Would I pull out a *working* Novell Server and replace it with ANY other OS just for the sake of being "supported" by Novell?
Nope.
Would I potentially consider using an alternative system in place of a Novell Server if the server needed to be upgraded?
Probably.
I'm going to digress a minute before I come back and explain that:
My opinion on Linux vs BSD (and FreeBSD in particular, as I haven't dove into the others yet) is that BSD makes a much better SERVER than Linux does, and that Linux makes a much better CLIENT than BSD does. For server applications, I would never consider Linux at this point. I just don't trust it as much as I do FreeBSD. I might be brainwashed by the BSD camp, so please don't flame me for this - but I really feel that the FreeBSD development methodology is better at producing consistent, stable, mission-critical code than the Linux method. I also feel that the Linux method is much better at getting those apps you NEED on the desktop ported.
That said, I would STRONGLY consider putting in a FreeBSD box running Samba to do file/print. I just haven't found the right client - well that's a little bit of a lie, the ISP I do sysadmin for has a corporate server running FreeBSD and Samba. To make a long story short - this client is more technical savy than most, and as such is better equipped to deal with the FreeBSD box.
In any case, it sounds like the original poster's client was worried about Support. About the only way you're going to get commercial support, is to upgrade Novell. (Or move to NT, but again I didn't mention that)
If they really aren't worried about support, I'd say leave the Novell server in place until such time as the server is not doing what it needs to do anymore (i.e. not fast enough, server old enough you're worried about relability, etc.) then look at the upgrade options. Then, if the client is technical savvy enough, consider a switch to a Open Source OS.
One piece of information which is lacking is the size of the firm this is for. In a larger firm, the value of Netware's NDS becomes much more critical. If you've got a hundred desktops managing them with Netware and NDS and ZenWorks is almost trivial cost-wise compared to any other option. In this larger environment the cost of the server licensing is dwarfed by the PC support costs.
One final comment - make sure you look at Novell's Netware for Small business. A 5 user upgrade is around $1000, or $200/seat, but it includes not only the Netware but also Netscape Enterprise server, A web cache, NetObjects Fusion (web editor), McAfee Netshield & Virusscan, Tobit Faxware and Groupwise. The added value of Groupwise Alone might pay for the upgrade costs.
Original article is at http://www.in foworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/metcalfe/bm1204 95.htm
Here's a good story about the result: http://computer.muni.cz/internet /v1n3/eats9702.htm
I wouldn't worry about Metcalfe. He Has apparently has lost a few clues since inventing Ethernet.
Registrant:
iMach, Ltd. (USWESTSUCKS-DOM)
P.O. Box 5749
Helena, MT 59601
US
Domain Name: USWESTSUCKS.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact:
Christian, Forrest W (FWC)
forrestc@IMACH.COM The Innovation Machine
P.O. Box 5749
Helena, MT 59604-5749
406-442-6648
Record last updated on 31-Dec-1997.
Record expires on 01-Jan-2001.
Record created on 31-Dec-1997.
Database last updated on 30-Jun-2000 23:32:34 EDT.
And it looks like I've hated them since at least december of 1997. Don't remember why I registered it but I remember I was pissed.
USWorst is the WORST local carrier. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I've heard anything good about Qwest. Most likely, they will take the worst from both companies.
I could tell you horror stories after horror stories. Current story is that USWest is having a major marketing promotion in the local area for DSL service which they are currently out of capacity for AND don't expect to have fixed until October or November.
Typical USWorst.