I thought that.uucp still existed but only for the hams. My email (above) address reflects one of my old.uucp addresses. At least what we learned during those day helped us in today's world.;-)
Actually my home automation started with a 3b1 and a Heath Kit X10 interface. Things have changed since then.
I'm not advocating that this practice is a good thing (personally I think it's very bad and will lower moral). But we should really expect that this is going on everywhere we go. You see it in malls, stores, city streets and in corporate offices (don't be suprised if they're watching you in the bathrooms!) with not so hidden cameras (were are the hidden ones, hmm). This technology has been around for at least 8 years. Now with automated updates (via you corporate net logons) they can add/delete and monitor everything done with your PC.
If Bill Trader's tale is any indication, you'll be at work from the moment you wake up. Kinda cool at first, but I think it'll get tiring after a while.
Yes there is a danger that work will become 7x24, but it is up to the individuals to take back the control (I've found this easier said than done so I am guilty as charged). It is also up to the corporations to establish policies that keep the balance of personal life and business needs. If business is allowed to take too much control then a revolt will occur and business can not afford to have that happen.
There are quite a few of us out there playing with such technology right now. We are experimenting and some have kept it within limits (to keep the SO happy and live within budgets) but we are playing with the technology. So far I have control of various lighting (using X10) and I have expermental I/O (I/O = switches, variable resistors, LEDS and DMMs) that I can control. I am able to monitor the weather and pull back information from the internet (news, weather, etc). I'm also able to post various info from my systems to the internet, though I must wisely choose what to post as too much info can be dangerous in the wrong hands. And I have voice synthesis output for certain info. Others have more elaborate systems (Bruce Winter's Mr.E House (MH) for example).
There are problems with this technology; cost, reliability, accuracy, redundancy and standards are not really up to expected consumer qualities. But for the most part they do work. Some of the fancier stuff such as the mirror with the built in display is pricey. But thanks to new technologies such as ethernet on a chip, smaller microcontrollers can be used for control and monitoring. Of course you can still use these devices without the network hook ups. This technology will help get the pricing down and allow more items to be centrally controlled by the MCP.
Now this of course begs the question do we really want so much being controlled for us? Or is the energy management and possible conviences worth it? Those are questions I can't yet answer. I don't really put a whole lot of faith in technology and sometimes prefer the old ways of doing certain things. Now ain't that a real kick in the pants.
I agree that this super secret trade secret BS is weak at best. But he does have a point, if you look at the various parts you can trace similarities or differences and begin to draw conclusions (maybe assumptions would be a better word). The problem with this is that hackers tend to be a paranoid bunch (both the white hats and the black hats). If I were to attack sites on the net I would try not to do it the same way each time. Or I would modify the information (such as the strings in an image) and leave false clues to lead to false conclusions (assumptions). I would also use as much generic material as possible. Maybe use images gathered off the net form other sites and modify them, uhmm like using the DEFCON6 logo modified. John's system is weak and can be easily defeated with a bit of thought. Besides aren't profiles built by people who understand psychology and police work.
Me thinks you have missed the point, it's called playing with words. United Loan is a bank, United Loan Gunmen sounds like bank robbers. United sounds like a group acting as one, lone (assume) means individual, gunmen refers to a group. Lone gunmen is a reference to the individual convicted of JF Kennedy's assasination (and the possible conspiracies surrounding that). There maybe a few other iterations there I've missed. Pretty neat name, though I have no idea what their mission is.
Playing with words is a trate in the Hacker community (as it is with people of intelligence). It's even more fun when a possible translation is a contradiction of itself!
Add a thin wire loop and a small surface mount processor, make it water proof and you have enough to create the an ID card with tons of info on it. You've probably seen the technology in use if you have a small card that you place on a certain point at a door. We used to call it wiping you ass:-) because you could leave the ID in you wallet and just swipe it (your wallet) on the building device. Making such a setup fit neatly into a laminated ID card is very easy. If you want more info about similar technology check out Dallas Semiconductors products.
The owner posted a message on the ZDnet site and stated that he upgraded the machine to 48K. It was mainly used to access old documents now. He also has several WinX machines running. Amazing that the 8" drives (he had 2 drives) and disks still worked properly. My old machine are beginning to suffer bit rot. My older is from '78.
And yes you can run programs in limited memory, but the interface is real terse. There are some programs that can run with no ram (diag programs need to do this). I have a Cheese box program which runs in 48 bytes of Rom and less than 8 bytes of ram. It's assembler of course.
Actually I think the Network General sniffer puts out a packet every once in a while to let everyone know that it's there (but don't take my word on it check a trace with the sniffer and see it there is a packet with a Network General MAC in it).
I know that an ethernet aui connection can be wired so that it only receives. I don't think you can do that with a 10BaseT connection (link integrity won't work and may take the port down).
I like Ethereal, check out Freshmeat for the link (I can't remember it right now).
I will be upgrading a NEC PC 8201A....
on
High Tech Junk
·
· Score: 1
I just finished rewritting an Xmodem program for it (I also disassembled the ROMs). I'll upgrade it to 256K (it's an 8085). I'll then start writing new programs in Small C, use xmodem to d/l the programs to the NEC (~1982) and use it as a controller interface to one of my control systems. Not bad for $5.
I also picked up a Z80 starter kit (~1980) ($5) and I will write an assembly language program to change the LED display and use it as art work.
I have other older computers which still work, just too many to remember how many.
Just because they're old doesn't mean their junk. Thay can be used as the base for controller projects (a prototype system). You don't always need more than 8 bits for small projects. It's a matter of costs vs power. Besides a lot of libraries exist for various jobs. Makes small custom controllers a breeze.
Call X10 directly and nag them! It took a month for them to send me mine. The Sales Associate will be very nice to you, I think the problem is with the ordering system to Shipping system but that's just a guess.
I actually agree with you that the 12C508 is probably a hoax. It has 512x14 words of ROM and 25 bytes of RAM. My guess is that the MCU is having a computer front end the requests and the MCU just posts the data. If it's real it would be a major hack!
But there is a web server on a 16F84 but it also has a Seiko chip with the TCP/IP stack. I'm not sure of how much RAM and ROM are used but there is probably not much left (1Kx14 ROM and 64 bytes RAM are available and it is code compatible with the 12C50x for the most part).
I like the Seiko chip as it would allow me to use any processor. I need to get my hands on one of them to play.
Doesn't Motorola also have a 683xx chip with built in ethernet (external interface components are needed)? Tha would make for a nice web server too (like the uCLinux unit).
We just got hit with the UCITA and now we are getting hit with Cisco's marketing droids bending the traffic on the net so they (the ISPs) can cause traffic jams (or denial) to sites they deem undesirable. Has the world gone mad! The internet community (we the users) has to come up with a way to "throw a wrench into the works". We have to make it clear that this kind of invasion will not be permitted. I will vote with my $$$. I do not expect utopia on the net but the ability to manipulate things is getting way out of control.
You must realize that they can take this a step further. Suppose you are an internet backbone company and you have an ISP also. You can just as easily setup the software to slow down you're competitors. Who is to say that the links are not busy.
-- Those who control the information, control the power!
Thank you but that won't be necessary, I already have them. I also have the TC++ 3.0 disks too bad they only compile on a 386 or better. At least the binaries work on 8088 and better.
Heck I still use 1.5, I would have been using 2.0 but I can't find the disks anymore. It still works great on my old laptops and old desktop computer (not to mention controllers based on the intel x86 family).
And, when Unix crashes, you actually have to make a trip out there because there is no way you can walk some average joe through a fix on the phone.
I supported AT&T 3B computer and their networks on a support hotline for 5 years (86 - 91) and I've walked many people (including the unknowing) into restoring a Unix box to where I could access the box. Unix is just as supportable as NT. But I would add that certain equipment was required to do it right (a modem, the original disks, and a recent backup). Most Unix boxes I've worked with followed our recommendations for power (UPS) and access (a modem). I'm not that familiar with NT (my friend is) but I don't see it being any less frustrating than Linux when it bombs out.
Windows gives the average user what they want. Ease of use and out of the box functionality. When Linux matures enough for that then the world will be a better place.
I sort of agree, I find that MS just moves the frustrations from up front to else where. With *nix the tough questions tend to be up front which can scare the users.
The article was severely lacking! Having lived through that period and retained much of the hardware (the software may suffer from bit rot). I remember my first internet access: Rutgers Soup Kitchen (I seem to remember 50 or 60 newsgroups, talk about information overload:-).
I still have my collection of computers, ZX81 (unassembled and assembled), Z80 Starter kit (gorgeous hand wrapped, handmade Al case and upgraded to 10K). My Atari 800/Ominmon, 600XL, 800XL/256K & Omnimon, Atari 520ST/4M, AT&T 3B1, AT&T 3B2/310, Rockwell Aim, a bunch of Commodore 64's, NEC PC8201A, IBM PC (64K w/cassette ports), a bunch of 8088 clones, a Toshiba 8088 laptop, a Zenith 8088 Laptop, a 286 laptop, AT&T Safari 386SL laptop and now my Linux boxen. I've played with SS30, SS50 and S100, I've built a bunch of different ucontrollers and I still have 3 OS9 and 2 OS9 68K boxes. I have Eval boards for the Motorola 6800, 6801, 6802, 6805, 6808 and 68HC11. I have more but I can't remember what they are. I also had an Apple II but it generated so much RFI I had to get rid of it. My neighbors for 200 feet in any direction would complain and my father was fit to kill me. I love that ROM monitor.
Those times were great but they aren't as great as things are today. Lets face it the original price of just 1 of those systems can easily purchase an new box. And it seems easy to find an emulator for almost all of them.
Are you thinking of some of the switches in the 80's?
Hmmm, forgot about those switches, I do not know much about how ISDN and DSL work. I do know that I can not get them here (USA) for 2 reasons. First, they're not offered in my area (the local switch would need upgrading). And Second, line quality is very poor here (the cables are 30+ years old). All the upgrade cables are being done for business not for the locals. The predominate switches here are Lucent (formerly AT&T Network Services). These switches are still in use today, though more and more, Ericson (SP?), and NorTel are being used. Much of the Data circuits are being handled by the Digital switches but these are not routers such as those by Cisco or Bay (NorTel).
Big companies are weird, they're in it for the profit but they must be careful not to drive off their customers (yes competition is good). On the other hand companies need profit if they are to upgrade their service or provide new services. This business with AOL & AT&T smells of profits on both sides. I think AT&T's main motive is to provide bundled services (that makes it cheaper for them) and not paying the last mile to your competitors may make it worth it. That means Data, voice (the lines will blur), video, and future services. AOL's maybe to have to own less equipment and/or support or just to slow down AT&T from becoming much larger and further invading there turf.
I think the Telco switches you are refering to are voice switches and Data != Voice. You will need to upgrade all the switches to "route" data and voice and not cause any delay. The delay part is important because voice can tolerate delay (up to a point of course), it can also tolerate noise. Data can not tolerate either. Now IMO a 5E can be reprogrammed to act as a data switch but I don't think that this will be a simple proposition (I don't know about othe vendors or smaller switches such as a 4E). As far as the king of routing that might go to the backbone providers such as uunet and Worldcom. Or the LD carriers and the International Carriers. They have extensive data services which probably can out do the Baby Bells in terms of Data Switches.
BTW the 10-10-220, 10-10-321 and 1-800-collect are all MCI owned though they try not to let you know this. I don't know of any cable companies in my state that sell local service, just cellular.
Also as far as data goes the cable companies still pay the same rates as other businesses to purchase access to the LD carriers from the LECs (buy in bulk get a discount).
BTW the future of routing may very well change with the internal part of the network being the dumb part and the intelligence moved out to the desktop. But I digress.
IMHO (hey I'm no expert on this) Open Access will happen but will it be that every municipality will create it's own regulations or will there be a national set of regulations? If it's the latter then competition will work, it it's the former then AOL and other large ISPs will benefit from the confusion that will occur (OK it sounds like a conspiracy but in business they do occur).
Are users able to get to AOL now though the dialups of their local ISP (cable, telco, ro satelite)?
I think the answer is yes.
Isn't it an addition service that they pay for in addition to their ISP rates?
I think the answer is yes.
And if the user doesn't want the extra ISP charges can they not just use AOL dailups?
Yes
And if it's not local to the user do they not pay additional fees for that access? Heck are we not paying for the local access call in some form of rate plan (or at least we can)?
Yes & Yes
So AOL can then be accessed via the cable, DSL, Satelite or DSL. Am I missing something here?
My guess will be nobody, if I were a company why would I invest in running very expensive fiber and the associated equipment if companies such as AOL will be allowed to jump on with no investment. It will cause all sorts of logistical problems. My Return On Investment now drops and I'll have more trouble getting investors to help with the funding.
It weakens my business decision to build such a facility.
But that doesn't matter much to most of us, because i doubt the passthrough works under linux anyhow - device locking and all.
FWIW, I had this concern because I have a Palm Pilot I use with the PilotManager software on the same port as my Firecracker.
My unscientific stress-test was to bring up the RocketLauncher TK front-end to BottleRocket, and PilotManager. I set PilotManager to do a full sync including the backup conduit. Then I started turning lights on and off from RocketLauncher while the backup was in progress. It worked fine.
Some sites I've read, though, have cautioned against trying this with a modem or mouse. Don't know. I've got an internal modem and a PS/2 mouse.
Under Linux I think we can make the pass through work, but the software would have to written correctly. Under Windows I beleive that once the software has started Windows locks the port. Although the mouse drive may need constant access to the mouse so the mouse port may not be a good choice (I don't know the protocols for the mouse). With the PilotManager software it shouldn't lock the port unless it is using it. And the Bottle Rocket software shouldn't lock the port unless it is using it. So as long as you have only one piece of software running at a time there shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately I won't be able to test my theory until next week when the Firecracker arrives (my palm 3x won't arrive till the end of the month). -- Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry - (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 - (Graphics)
I think it makes far more sense to add a small RF carrier to the AC signal and modulate your signal onto that. In fact I am designing such a system and will release the plans under something GPL-like when (if:) I get it working. I am thinking make it an Ethernet-like protocol with lookahead collision avoidance/etc. Something I can run IP on anyways.. But don't hold your breath waiting for it:)
You might be interested in the GNU/Linux Home Automation Project . The goals of the project are to produce GPL'd hardware and software standards for Home Automation. Right now the list is down due to technical problems with the mail list.
Slashdot Mirror
I thought that .uucp still existed but only for the hams. My email (above) address reflects one of my old .uucp addresses. At least what we learned during those day helped us in today's world. ;-)
Actually my home automation started with a 3b1 and a Heath Kit X10 interface. Things have changed since then.
--
Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 (Graphics)
I'm not advocating that this practice is a good thing (personally I think it's very bad and will lower moral). But we should really expect that this is going on everywhere we go. You see it in malls, stores, city streets and in corporate offices (don't be suprised if they're watching you in the bathrooms!) with not so hidden cameras (were are the hidden ones, hmm). This technology has been around for at least 8 years. Now with automated updates (via you corporate net logons) they can add/delete and monitor everything done with your PC.
If Bill Trader's tale is any indication, you'll be at work from the moment you wake up. Kinda cool at first, but I think it'll get tiring after a while.
Yes there is a danger that work will become 7x24, but it is up to the individuals to take back the control (I've found this easier said than done so I am guilty as charged). It is also up to the corporations to establish policies that keep the balance of personal life and business needs. If business is allowed to take too much control then a revolt will occur and business can not afford to have that happen.
There are quite a few of us out there playing with such technology right now. We are experimenting and some have kept it within limits (to keep the SO happy and live within budgets) but we are playing with the technology. So far I have control of various lighting (using X10) and I have expermental I/O (I/O = switches, variable resistors, LEDS and DMMs) that I can control. I am able to monitor the weather and pull back information from the internet (news, weather, etc). I'm also able to post various info from my systems to the internet, though I must wisely choose what to post as too much info can be dangerous in the wrong hands. And I have voice synthesis output for certain info. Others have more elaborate systems (Bruce Winter's Mr.E House (MH) for example).
There are problems with this technology; cost, reliability, accuracy, redundancy and standards are not really up to expected consumer qualities. But for the most part they do work. Some of the fancier stuff such as the mirror with the built in display is pricey. But thanks to new technologies such as ethernet on a chip, smaller microcontrollers can be used for control and monitoring. Of course you can still use these devices without the network hook ups. This technology will help get the pricing down and allow more items to be centrally controlled by the MCP.
Now this of course begs the question do we really want so much being controlled for us? Or is the energy management and possible conviences worth it? Those are questions I can't yet answer. I don't really put a whole lot of faith in technology and sometimes prefer the old ways of doing certain things. Now ain't that a real kick in the pants.
--
Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 (Graphics)
I agree that this super secret trade secret BS is weak at best. But he does have a point, if you look at the various parts you can trace similarities or differences and begin to draw conclusions (maybe assumptions would be a better word). The problem with this is that hackers tend to be a paranoid bunch (both the white hats and the black hats). If I were to attack sites on the net I would try not to do it the same way each time. Or I would modify the information (such as the strings in an image) and leave false clues to lead to false conclusions (assumptions). I would also use as much generic material as possible. Maybe use images gathered off the net form other sites and modify them, uhmm like using the DEFCON6 logo modified. John's system is weak and can be easily defeated with a bit of thought. Besides aren't profiles built by people who understand psychology and police work.
Me thinks you have missed the point, it's called playing with words. United Loan is a bank, United Loan Gunmen sounds like bank robbers. United sounds like a group acting as one, lone (assume) means individual, gunmen refers to a group. Lone gunmen is a reference to the individual convicted of JF Kennedy's assasination (and the possible conspiracies surrounding that). There maybe a few other iterations there I've missed. Pretty neat name, though I have no idea what their mission is.
Playing with words is a trate in the Hacker community (as it is with people of intelligence). It's even more fun when a possible translation is a contradiction of itself!
Add a thin wire loop and a small surface mount processor, make it water proof and you have enough to create the an ID card with tons of info on it. You've probably seen the technology in use if you have a small card that you place on a certain point at a door. We used to call it wiping you ass :-) because you could leave the ID in you wallet and just swipe it (your wallet) on the building device. Making such a setup fit neatly into a laminated ID card is very easy. If you want more info about similar technology check out Dallas Semiconductors products.
The owner posted a message on the ZDnet site and stated that he upgraded the machine to 48K. It was mainly used to access old documents now. He also has several WinX machines running. Amazing that the 8" drives (he had 2 drives) and disks still worked properly. My old machine are beginning to suffer bit rot. My older is from '78.
And yes you can run programs in limited memory, but the interface is real terse. There are some programs that can run with no ram (diag programs need to do this). I have a Cheese box program which runs in 48 bytes of Rom and less than 8 bytes of ram. It's assembler of course.
Actually I think the Network General sniffer puts out a packet every once in a while to let everyone know that it's there (but don't take my word on it check a trace with the sniffer and see it there is a packet with a Network General MAC in it).
I know that an ethernet aui connection can be wired so that it only receives. I don't think you can do that with a 10BaseT connection (link integrity won't work and may take the port down).
I like Ethereal, check out Freshmeat for the link (I can't remember it right now).
I just finished rewritting an Xmodem program for it (I also disassembled the ROMs). I'll upgrade it to 256K (it's an 8085). I'll then start writing new programs in Small C, use xmodem to d/l the programs to the NEC (~1982) and use it as a controller interface to one of my control systems. Not bad for $5.
I also picked up a Z80 starter kit (~1980) ($5) and I will write an assembly language program to change the LED display and use it as art work.
I have other older computers which still work, just too many to remember how many.
Just because they're old doesn't mean their junk. Thay can be used as the base for controller projects (a prototype system). You don't always need more than 8 bits for small projects. It's a matter of costs vs power. Besides a lot of libraries exist for various jobs. Makes small custom controllers a breeze.
Call X10 directly and nag them! It took a month for them to send me mine. The Sales Associate will be very nice to you, I think the problem is with the ordering system to Shipping system but that's just a guess.
I actually agree with you that the 12C508 is probably a hoax. It has 512x14 words of ROM and 25 bytes of RAM. My guess is that the MCU is having a computer front end the requests and the MCU just posts the data. If it's real it would be a major hack!
But there is a web server on a 16F84 but it also has a Seiko chip with the TCP/IP stack. I'm not sure of how much RAM and ROM are used but there is probably not much left (1Kx14 ROM and 64 bytes RAM are available and it is code compatible with the 12C50x for the most part).
I like the Seiko chip as it would allow me to use any processor. I need to get my hands on one of them to play.
Doesn't Motorola also have a 683xx chip with built in ethernet (external interface components are needed)? Tha would make for a nice web server too (like the uCLinux unit).
The http://www.circuitcellar.com/online won't be functional until Aug 9th. But the initial web page did appear the be /.'d.
We just got hit with the UCITA and now we are getting hit with Cisco's marketing droids bending the traffic on the net so they (the ISPs) can cause traffic jams (or denial) to sites they deem undesirable. Has the world gone mad! The internet community (we the users) has to come up with a way to "throw a wrench into the works". We have to make it clear that this kind of invasion will not be permitted. I will vote with my $$$. I do not expect utopia on the net but the ability to manipulate things is getting way out of control.
You must realize that they can take this a step further. Suppose you are an internet backbone company and you have an ISP also. You can just as easily setup the software to slow down you're competitors. Who is to say that the links are not busy.
--
Those who control the information, control the power!
Thank you but that won't be necessary, I already have them. I also have the TC++ 3.0 disks too bad they only compile on a 386 or better. At least the binaries work on 8088 and better.
Heck I still use 1.5, I would have been using 2.0 but I can't find the disks anymore. It still works great on my old laptops and old desktop computer (not to mention controllers based on the intel x86 family).
And, when Unix crashes, you actually have to make a trip out there because there is no way you can walk some average joe through a fix on the phone.
I supported AT&T 3B computer and their networks on a support hotline for 5 years (86 - 91) and I've walked many people (including the unknowing) into restoring a Unix box to where I could access the box. Unix is just as supportable as NT. But I would add that certain equipment was required to do it right (a modem, the original disks, and a recent backup). Most Unix boxes I've worked with followed our recommendations for power (UPS) and access (a modem). I'm not that familiar with NT (my friend is) but I don't see it being any less frustrating than Linux when it bombs out.
Windows gives the average user what they want. Ease of use and out of the box functionality. When Linux matures enough for that then the world will be a better place.
I sort of agree, I find that MS just moves the frustrations from up front to else where. With *nix the tough questions tend to be up front which can scare the users.
--
Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 (Graphics)
The article was severely lacking! Having lived through that period and retained much of the hardware (the software may suffer from bit rot). I remember my first internet access: Rutgers Soup Kitchen (I seem to remember 50 or 60 newsgroups, talk about information overload :-).
I still have my collection of computers, ZX81 (unassembled and assembled), Z80 Starter kit (gorgeous hand wrapped, handmade Al case and upgraded to 10K). My Atari 800/Ominmon, 600XL, 800XL/256K & Omnimon, Atari 520ST/4M, AT&T 3B1, AT&T 3B2/310, Rockwell Aim, a bunch of Commodore 64's, NEC PC8201A, IBM PC (64K w/cassette ports), a bunch of 8088 clones, a Toshiba 8088 laptop, a Zenith 8088 Laptop, a 286 laptop, AT&T Safari 386SL laptop and now my Linux boxen. I've played with SS30, SS50 and S100, I've built a bunch of different ucontrollers and I still have 3 OS9 and 2 OS9 68K boxes. I have Eval boards for the Motorola 6800, 6801, 6802, 6805, 6808 and 68HC11. I have more but I can't remember what they are. I also had an Apple II but it generated so much RFI I had to get rid of it. My neighbors for 200 feet in any direction would complain and my father was fit to kill me. I love that ROM monitor.
Those times were great but they aren't as great as things are today. Lets face it the original price of just 1 of those systems can easily purchase an new box. And it seems easy to find an emulator for almost all of them.
--
Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 (Graphics)
Are you thinking of some of the switches in the 80's?
Hmmm, forgot about those switches, I do not know much about how ISDN and DSL work. I do know that I can not get them here (USA) for 2 reasons. First, they're not offered in my area (the local switch would need upgrading). And Second, line quality is very poor here (the cables are 30+ years old). All the upgrade cables are being done for business not for the locals. The predominate switches here are Lucent (formerly AT&T Network Services). These switches are still in use today, though more and more, Ericson (SP?), and NorTel are being used. Much of the Data circuits are being handled by the Digital switches but these are not routers such as those by Cisco or Bay (NorTel).
Big companies are weird, they're in it for the profit but they must be careful not to drive off their customers (yes competition is good). On the other hand companies need profit if they are to upgrade their service or provide new services. This business with AOL & AT&T smells of profits on both sides. I think AT&T's main motive is to provide bundled services (that makes it cheaper for them) and not paying the last mile to your competitors may make it worth it. That means Data, voice (the lines will blur), video, and future services. AOL's maybe to have to own less equipment and/or support or just to slow down AT&T from becoming much larger and further invading there turf.
... The kings of routing are the telco's.
Hehe, you funny!
I think the Telco switches you are refering to are voice switches and Data != Voice. You will need to upgrade all the switches to "route" data and voice and not cause any delay. The delay part is important because voice can tolerate delay (up to a point of course), it can also tolerate noise. Data can not tolerate either. Now IMO a 5E can be reprogrammed to act as a data switch but I don't think that this will be a simple proposition (I don't know about othe vendors or smaller switches such as a 4E). As far as the king of routing that might go to the backbone providers such as uunet and Worldcom. Or the LD carriers and the International Carriers. They have extensive data services which probably can out do the Baby Bells in terms of Data Switches.
BTW the 10-10-220, 10-10-321 and 1-800-collect are all MCI owned though they try not to let you know this. I don't know of any cable companies in my state that sell local service, just cellular.
Also as far as data goes the cable companies still pay the same rates as other businesses to purchase access to the LD carriers from the LECs (buy in bulk get a discount).
BTW the future of routing may very well change with the internal part of the network being the dumb part and the intelligence moved out to the desktop. But I digress.
IMHO (hey I'm no expert on this) Open Access will happen but will it be that every municipality will create it's own regulations or will there be a national set of regulations? If it's the latter then competition will work, it it's the former then AOL and other large ISPs will benefit from the confusion that will occur (OK it sounds like a conspiracy but in business they do occur).
Are users able to get to AOL now though the dialups of their local ISP (cable, telco, ro satelite)?
I think the answer is yes.
Isn't it an addition service that they pay for in addition to their ISP rates?
I think the answer is yes.
And if the user doesn't want the extra ISP charges can they not just use AOL dailups?
Yes
And if it's not local to the user do they not pay additional fees for that access? Heck are we not paying for the local access call in some form of rate plan (or at least we can)?
Yes & Yes
So AOL can then be accessed via the cable, DSL, Satelite or DSL. Am I missing something here?
My guess will be nobody, if I were a company why would I invest in running very expensive fiber and the associated equipment if companies such as AOL will be allowed to jump on with no investment. It will cause all sorts of logistical problems. My Return On Investment now drops and I'll have more trouble getting investors to help with the funding.
It weakens my business decision to build such a facility.
FWIW, I had this concern because I have a Palm Pilot I use with the PilotManager software on the same port as my Firecracker.
My unscientific stress-test was to bring up the RocketLauncher TK front-end to BottleRocket, and PilotManager. I set PilotManager to do a full sync including the backup conduit. Then I started turning lights on and off from RocketLauncher while the backup was in progress. It worked fine.
Some sites I've read, though, have cautioned against trying this with a modem or mouse. Don't know. I've got an internal modem and a PS/2 mouse.
Under Linux I think we can make the pass through work, but the software would have to written correctly. Under Windows I beleive that once the software has started Windows locks the port. Although the mouse drive may need constant access to the mouse so the mouse port may not be a good choice (I don't know the protocols for the mouse). With the PilotManager software it shouldn't lock the port unless it is using it. And the Bottle Rocket software shouldn't lock the port unless it is using it. So as long as you have only one piece of software running at a time there shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately I won't be able to test my theory until next week when the Firecracker arrives (my palm 3x won't arrive till the end of the month).
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Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry - (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 - (Graphics)
I think it makes far more sense to add a small RF carrier to the AC signal and modulate your signal onto that. In fact I am designing such a system and will release the plans under something GPL-like when (if :) I get it working. I am thinking make it an Ethernet-like protocol with lookahead collision avoidance/etc. Something I can run IP on anyways.. But don't hold your breath waiting for it :)
You might be interested in the GNU/Linux Home Automation Project . The goals of the project are to produce GPL'd hardware and software standards for Home Automation. Right now the list is down due to technical problems with the mail list.
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Linux Home Automation - Neil Cherry - ncherry@home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry - (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lig htsey/52 - (Graphics)