Correct. That's how politics work. Maidan had no power until Right Sector joined it, and it lost power after Right Sector left Maidan to join the weak government.
In any situation, the real power is always in the hands of men with guns. The question is if there is any power that control men with guns. Men with guns went for the party that allowed them to get the most out of situation, switching sides to Maidan initially, and then to the weak government that had West's support after it became obvious that it would not survive a weak without them, allowing them to extract massive concessions from them in exchange for their support.
As for "proof", it takes living in one hell of a bubble not to see it. Clearly, Nuland telling us who will be in government weeks before the overthrow was a coincidence. McCain visiting was also a coincidence, as were several others. CIA chief visiting before the announcement of "counter terrorism operation" was also a coincidence. Kicking Klichko out of power structures, who actually wanted change is also a coincidence. Utterly absurd rhetoric coming out of Kiev today is also a coincidence. Oligarchs being installed into official posts is a coincidence. Maidan threatening "Yats" with assassination (but lacking the power to do it because Right Sector left it) after he showed them who will be in his government after the overthrow was also a coincidence. Svoboda and Right Sector getting posts like deputy of minister of freedom of speech is a coincidence. Them going on to beat up journalists in Kiev until they sign their resignations is a coincidence. Said journalists not getting their jobs back even after the Western media couldn't put a lid on that particular story is also a coincidence. And countless other coincidences you can find by following the news, and just reading carefully, as funnily enough, it's actually there in the stories a lot of time, even in the Western media. It's just well obfuscated, like the story on the Ukrainians soldiers leaving Crimea, with long moaning about how their entire families have to be uprooted. Which ends up in short sentence that those make for barely a quarter of Ukrainian troops originally stationed in the region. The rest apparently switched sides and are staying.
I have a suggestion. When the amount of coincidences reaches the point, where to believe in all of it being a coincidence starts to be smaller than that of winning a lottery, you may start considering that maybe, just maybe, you live a propaganda bubble and look utterly hilarious, not to mention gullible to those who aren't inside it.
OECD military observers were told to get out after they went in uninvited and warning shots were fired after they pushed in in spite of multiple warnings.
Election observers were invited. They did not accept the invitation.
The fact that you confuse two completely different agencies within OECD speaks volumes.
PCI-E SSDs were available on PCs long before debuting on macs. They often run much faster as well, as they can use RAID0 striping. I've seen drives that use a quad RAID0 pushing utterly insane numbers for long term storage at the cost of not letting TRIM commands through.
Is that even possible? Is there a stop where russophobes such as yourself stop imagining things, and connecting incomparable things just because "oh god, RUSSIANS!"?
If there is one, I haven't seen it yet. On a lighter note, the sheer absurdity of your behaviour leads more and more people around the world to simply ignore outbursts of your types, or openly deride them.
So please go on. Be as absurd and as noisy as you possibly can. The faster your credibility is eroded completely, the faster we may start getting crises where sacrificing massive amounts of people to the engine of war will not be the only solution and way out.
The West installed the current regime. When "Yats", the Nuland's guy got the top job, kicked out the "too inexperienced to rule" (aka not corrupt enough) "Klitch" and went to maidan to annouce his government (which could be summed up as Tymoshenko and her stooges), do you know what happened?
They openly threatened to kill him for "continuing the same order we are here to fight against". After Tymoshenko saw this, she ran away to Germany and left her stooges to take the hits. The only reason they are still in position of some power in Kiev is because Right Sector, which was the real power behind maidan but had little public support initially switched sides to West puppets because it saw just how vulnerable they were against the people and just how much power they would get by essentially taking the entire security apparatus into their hands by supporting the weak puppet government.
Nowadays they do stuff like beat up MPs and journalists, while taking videos of it. Euronews had a hilarious story that got through propaganda curtain by sheer absurdity of it a few weeks ago, where the deputy minister for free speech beat up a head of TV station in Kiev while filmed by one of his (assaulting party) guards until he signed his resignation. Then he uploaded the clip to youtube to show his supporters that he's defending the "motherland". Even hollywood isn't good enough to write stories like this one.
Maidan is still there by the way. People are still protesting against the current regime. Have you heard any news about them in the Western media as of late? Ever wondered why they stopped covering maidan so abruptly after the current US-approved regime took power?
Sometimes, 2+2=4. Even if there's a massive lobby screaming at you that it equals 5.
Whoever upmodded you needs to do fact checking instead of just blindly doing so.
You are wrong or lying. Study talks about "wealthy or elites" referring to the top 0.1% or so.
Pretty much any graduate working in tech, unless he's one of the tiny portion of top CEOs is completely outside this scope. Even your average CEO or top manager will likely not be included in this definition - they are simply not wealthy or powerful enough to fit.
They see it as danger because they see it as a small but potential source of new people coming up and pushing them off the pedestal.
The single biggest fear of those on top has always been being toppled. Regardless of actual potential of that happening being large or positively tiny.
To someone who modded this flamebait - presenting relevant facts that disagree with your point of view is not baiting flaming. It's bating an intelligent discussion.
If you disagree, grow a pair, show that you can be called a person who supports freedom of speech as a core Western value and present your counter arguments instead of downmodding it.
Especially when the issue is of that importance - voting apathy in the West is exceptionally destructive to democratic process, and one of the key elements which have allowed corporatist and militarist agenda holders to take power even when their platform is not the one most voters would prefer.
And I would agree. Which is why it's relieving that it in fact we have not seen those numbers in Crimea.
In fact, some of the more reliable and neutral press in the West, such as Der Spiegel (you'll know them from the fact that people like Snowden and Assange trusted them enough to give them the source materials for redaction) posts stories like these today:
Juicy quote: "Nevertheless, the situation here is not as unambiguous as it was on the Crimean Peninsula" when talking about situation in Eastern Ukraine. In other words, they agree that situation in Crimea has had little ambiguity - people by far and large wanted to join Russia and they got their wish.
Considering that euronews mentioned in the a footnote of their story on pullout of Ukrainian troops from Crimea after the annexation that "2/3 to 3/4 of the ukrainian soldiers are actually staying behind because they deserted before or during the conflict in Crimea", we can see that desperate attempts to claim that Crimea's vote wasn't geniunely democratic have little merit.
About the only argument you can make is that situation was orchestrated to manipulate public opinion. But if we call that an offence that makes referendums and political decisions invalid, shouldn't we have already put other people who have been proven to have used massive disinformation to get the outcome they wanted in prison, such as former US president G.W. Bush? And can we really argue that Russia is in this alone, and West has not been the prime instigator of current situation with Russia being the massive loser who's merely reacting? They lost entire country of Ukraine after all, with all its industrial base. This isn't some crappy third world oil producer - they make things like engine parts for space rockets. And they are historically ally of Russia throughout several centuries against threats like Ottoman slaver empire or Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, not to even mention being the birthplace of modern Russian culture.
So in your opinion, if a state is not perfectly stable and/or has any issues that people are passionate about, it's not a "real Democracy".
I humbly disagree. I do believe that vast majority of sane population of the West is with me on this particular issue, regardless of their views on the Ukrainian conflict.
Since the only comparison you could come up with here is Nazi Germany, I think I will just label you a "standard, shameless militarist nut job" and stop talking. Arguing on merit of facts with your kind is pointless - you will twist the reality to fit your own, warped imagination and disregard any inconvenient inconsistencies with your story, like your aforementioned claim that democracy is not "real" if people feel compelled to vote.
Funnily enough, most pro-democracy movements continue to make an argument that one of the biggest problems with democracy in the West is low participation. Inconvenient, and I'm sure you'll ignore that tidbit as well. After all, they're probably not about "real" democracy.
Yes. There's little difference between the morality of the militarist wing of East and West. Both are two sides of the same militarist coin, with same level of ethics.
Did the whole Snowden debacle show you nothing? Iraq?
My argument is actually that if US annexed Iraq, it would have had to take responsibility for people it left in an impossible situation after its invasion.
Russia is giving all Crimeans, regardless of ethnicity of vote a right to vote in Russian elections for example. When will people of Iraq, who are massively impacted by results of US elections be given the same right?
How high are we talking here? They voted with participation of over 85%, and of that vote, overwhelming majority agreed to annexation.
To compare, average Western country has election for government with voter activity barely around 50% (often much lower) and ruling parties are often elected with very small minorities of under 20% of those who came to vote.
So your requirement is largely met, unless you're planning on insisting on 100% kind of numbers.
Notably: OECD received invitation to the elections to monitor them. They came under massive pressure from EU and US and ended up declining the invitation.
And the people on the streets, celebrating after the referendum en masse were shipped from Moscow. In containers. Because that's how Russians treat their own people. You know it because you have been told so by the same sources.
And while at it, you may wish to check just how much support people currently installed by the West in Kiev command. May make for a good example of hypocrisy for which your types are known so well.
It's always nice to see the same, tired propaganda, that the person behind it himself officially admitted to being a lie repeated time and time again.
I'm sorry to tell you, but that particular number was in fact a misquote from the original announcement of results of referendum, where "1,5 million" said to the camera became "1,7 million" in the press. "Accidentally" of course. To provide people such as yourself ample talking points.
You russophobes are like the anti-vaccine crowd, who cares if the original study is a lie. The goal is good, therefore all lies to back it up are good.
Slashdot Mirror
Correct. That's how politics work. Maidan had no power until Right Sector joined it, and it lost power after Right Sector left Maidan to join the weak government.
In any situation, the real power is always in the hands of men with guns. The question is if there is any power that control men with guns. Men with guns went for the party that allowed them to get the most out of situation, switching sides to Maidan initially, and then to the weak government that had West's support after it became obvious that it would not survive a weak without them, allowing them to extract massive concessions from them in exchange for their support.
As for "proof", it takes living in one hell of a bubble not to see it. Clearly, Nuland telling us who will be in government weeks before the overthrow was a coincidence. McCain visiting was also a coincidence, as were several others. CIA chief visiting before the announcement of "counter terrorism operation" was also a coincidence. Kicking Klichko out of power structures, who actually wanted change is also a coincidence. Utterly absurd rhetoric coming out of Kiev today is also a coincidence. Oligarchs being installed into official posts is a coincidence. Maidan threatening "Yats" with assassination (but lacking the power to do it because Right Sector left it) after he showed them who will be in his government after the overthrow was also a coincidence. Svoboda and Right Sector getting posts like deputy of minister of freedom of speech is a coincidence. Them going on to beat up journalists in Kiev until they sign their resignations is a coincidence. Said journalists not getting their jobs back even after the Western media couldn't put a lid on that particular story is also a coincidence. And countless other coincidences you can find by following the news, and just reading carefully, as funnily enough, it's actually there in the stories a lot of time, even in the Western media. It's just well obfuscated, like the story on the Ukrainians soldiers leaving Crimea, with long moaning about how their entire families have to be uprooted. Which ends up in short sentence that those make for barely a quarter of Ukrainian troops originally stationed in the region. The rest apparently switched sides and are staying.
I have a suggestion. When the amount of coincidences reaches the point, where to believe in all of it being a coincidence starts to be smaller than that of winning a lottery, you may start considering that maybe, just maybe, you live a propaganda bubble and look utterly hilarious, not to mention gullible to those who aren't inside it.
Just something for you to consider.
OECD military observers were told to get out after they went in uninvited and warning shots were fired after they pushed in in spite of multiple warnings.
Election observers were invited. They did not accept the invitation.
The fact that you confuse two completely different agencies within OECD speaks volumes.
HDD killed tape?
I thought it just pushed it into long term storage.
How well does your RAID0 controller do with TRIM commands?
Many are known to cause problems by not letting TRIM through to the drives.
I imagine raid 10 would be an option (0+1). But that's going to be pretty hilarious in costs.
PCI-E SSDs were available on PCs long before debuting on macs. They often run much faster as well, as they can use RAID0 striping. I've seen drives that use a quad RAID0 pushing utterly insane numbers for long term storage at the cost of not letting TRIM commands through.
Is that even possible? Is there a stop where russophobes such as yourself stop imagining things, and connecting incomparable things just because "oh god, RUSSIANS!"?
If there is one, I haven't seen it yet. On a lighter note, the sheer absurdity of your behaviour leads more and more people around the world to simply ignore outbursts of your types, or openly deride them.
So please go on. Be as absurd and as noisy as you possibly can. The faster your credibility is eroded completely, the faster we may start getting crises where sacrificing massive amounts of people to the engine of war will not be the only solution and way out.
Clearly, they looked very coerced after the fact on the streets. We all know that singing, dancing and partying is how Russians show they are coerced.
Yes, Russians are weird, and our propaganda, no matter how absurd is correct. Thank you for playing!
The West installed the current regime. When "Yats", the Nuland's guy got the top job, kicked out the "too inexperienced to rule" (aka not corrupt enough) "Klitch" and went to maidan to annouce his government (which could be summed up as Tymoshenko and her stooges), do you know what happened?
They openly threatened to kill him for "continuing the same order we are here to fight against". After Tymoshenko saw this, she ran away to Germany and left her stooges to take the hits. The only reason they are still in position of some power in Kiev is because Right Sector, which was the real power behind maidan but had little public support initially switched sides to West puppets because it saw just how vulnerable they were against the people and just how much power they would get by essentially taking the entire security apparatus into their hands by supporting the weak puppet government.
Nowadays they do stuff like beat up MPs and journalists, while taking videos of it. Euronews had a hilarious story that got through propaganda curtain by sheer absurdity of it a few weeks ago, where the deputy minister for free speech beat up a head of TV station in Kiev while filmed by one of his (assaulting party) guards until he signed his resignation. Then he uploaded the clip to youtube to show his supporters that he's defending the "motherland". Even hollywood isn't good enough to write stories like this one.
Maidan is still there by the way. People are still protesting against the current regime. Have you heard any news about them in the Western media as of late? Ever wondered why they stopped covering maidan so abruptly after the current US-approved regime took power?
Sometimes, 2+2=4. Even if there's a massive lobby screaming at you that it equals 5.
Whoever upmodded you needs to do fact checking instead of just blindly doing so.
You are wrong or lying. Study talks about "wealthy or elites" referring to the top 0.1% or so.
Pretty much any graduate working in tech, unless he's one of the tiny portion of top CEOs is completely outside this scope. Even your average CEO or top manager will likely not be included in this definition - they are simply not wealthy or powerful enough to fit.
They see it as danger because they see it as a small but potential source of new people coming up and pushing them off the pedestal.
The single biggest fear of those on top has always been being toppled. Regardless of actual potential of that happening being large or positively tiny.
To someone who modded this flamebait - presenting relevant facts that disagree with your point of view is not baiting flaming. It's bating an intelligent discussion.
If you disagree, grow a pair, show that you can be called a person who supports freedom of speech as a core Western value and present your counter arguments instead of downmodding it.
Especially when the issue is of that importance - voting apathy in the West is exceptionally destructive to democratic process, and one of the key elements which have allowed corporatist and militarist agenda holders to take power even when their platform is not the one most voters would prefer.
And I would agree. Which is why it's relieving that it in fact we have not seen those numbers in Crimea.
In fact, some of the more reliable and neutral press in the West, such as Der Spiegel (you'll know them from the fact that people like Snowden and Assange trusted them enough to give them the source materials for redaction) posts stories like these today:
http://www.spiegel.de/internat...
Juicy quote: "Nevertheless, the situation here is not as unambiguous as it was on the Crimean Peninsula" when talking about situation in Eastern Ukraine. In other words, they agree that situation in Crimea has had little ambiguity - people by far and large wanted to join Russia and they got their wish.
Considering that euronews mentioned in the a footnote of their story on pullout of Ukrainian troops from Crimea after the annexation that "2/3 to 3/4 of the ukrainian soldiers are actually staying behind because they deserted before or during the conflict in Crimea", we can see that desperate attempts to claim that Crimea's vote wasn't geniunely democratic have little merit.
About the only argument you can make is that situation was orchestrated to manipulate public opinion. But if we call that an offence that makes referendums and political decisions invalid, shouldn't we have already put other people who have been proven to have used massive disinformation to get the outcome they wanted in prison, such as former US president G.W. Bush? And can we really argue that Russia is in this alone, and West has not been the prime instigator of current situation with Russia being the massive loser who's merely reacting? They lost entire country of Ukraine after all, with all its industrial base. This isn't some crappy third world oil producer - they make things like engine parts for space rockets. And they are historically ally of Russia throughout several centuries against threats like Ottoman slaver empire or Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, not to even mention being the birthplace of modern Russian culture.
We were discussing Crimea just a moment ago, so I think we can safely say that your passionate "never" has been debunked before it has been uttered.
So in your opinion, if a state is not perfectly stable and/or has any issues that people are passionate about, it's not a "real Democracy".
I humbly disagree. I do believe that vast majority of sane population of the West is with me on this particular issue, regardless of their views on the Ukrainian conflict.
Since the only comparison you could come up with here is Nazi Germany, I think I will just label you a "standard, shameless militarist nut job" and stop talking. Arguing on merit of facts with your kind is pointless - you will twist the reality to fit your own, warped imagination and disregard any inconvenient inconsistencies with your story, like your aforementioned claim that democracy is not "real" if people feel compelled to vote.
Funnily enough, most pro-democracy movements continue to make an argument that one of the biggest problems with democracy in the West is low participation. Inconvenient, and I'm sure you'll ignore that tidbit as well. After all, they're probably not about "real" democracy.
Yes. There's little difference between the morality of the militarist wing of East and West. Both are two sides of the same militarist coin, with same level of ethics.
Did the whole Snowden debacle show you nothing? Iraq?
My argument is actually that if US annexed Iraq, it would have had to take responsibility for people it left in an impossible situation after its invasion.
Russia is giving all Crimeans, regardless of ethnicity of vote a right to vote in Russian elections for example. When will people of Iraq, who are massively impacted by results of US elections be given the same right?
How high are we talking here? They voted with participation of over 85%, and of that vote, overwhelming majority agreed to annexation.
To compare, average Western country has election for government with voter activity barely around 50% (often much lower) and ruling parties are often elected with very small minorities of under 20% of those who came to vote.
So your requirement is largely met, unless you're planning on insisting on 100% kind of numbers.
Notably: OECD received invitation to the elections to monitor them. They came under massive pressure from EU and US and ended up declining the invitation.
And you chose to make an example that US didn't annex Iraq. Which lead to my argument.
And the people on the streets, celebrating after the referendum en masse were shipped from Moscow. In containers. Because that's how Russians treat their own people. You know it because you have been told so by the same sources.
And while at it, you may wish to check just how much support people currently installed by the West in Kiev command. May make for a good example of hypocrisy for which your types are known so well.
Aye. US doesn't take that kind of responsibility for people it "liberates". It just leaves them to largely fend for themselves. Like in Iraq.
Mind telling us how that is a good thing, other than for your bottom line - i.e. less mouths to feed?
Kosovo today is a de facto EU protectariat. Independent, it has a viability of a large, crime infested town with no industry of its own.
It's always nice to see the same, tired propaganda, that the person behind it himself officially admitted to being a lie repeated time and time again.
I'm sorry to tell you, but that particular number was in fact a misquote from the original announcement of results of referendum, where "1,5 million" said to the camera became "1,7 million" in the press. "Accidentally" of course. To provide people such as yourself ample talking points.
You russophobes are like the anti-vaccine crowd, who cares if the original study is a lie. The goal is good, therefore all lies to back it up are good.
Not even the West has the gall to claim Crimea is occupied.
Annexed, yes. Occupied, no. By who? Locals?
Wait, what so the japanese porn to date was NOT the peak of depravity?
Mind blown.