The facts aren't really in dispute. Clinton committed perjury on a Federal Grand Jury investigation and committed witness tampering (coaching Monica Lewinsky on what to say) with respect to a Special Prosecutor investigation.
If you want to impeach Bush, impeach him for failing to protect the border.
In other words: your pathetic excuse to bail on Bush (his stance on immigration is not new, you knew exactly what you were getting in 2000 and keeping in 2004) so he can be the scape goat for the complete and utter failure of the entire conservative movement.
Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury on oath to a Grand Jury, not a blow job witch hunt.
Bullshit. For it to be perjury during the grand jury trial, it would have had to be about something A) relevant, B) it requires taking Lewinsky's story as fact, despite the fact that she lied about it, and C) has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. During the regular trial, the judged ruled that whatever happened between Monica and Bill was irrelevant to the Jones case - and if it's not relevant, it's not perjury.
So in other words, it absolutely was a witch hunt meant to undo the 1992 and 1996 elections. They came up empty on investigating and re-investigating and re-investigating Whitewater and Vince Foster, so they settled for a perjury trap instead. The purpose of the justice system is to punish the guilty, not make the innocent jump through hoops until the prosecution can manufacture a perjury charge. To see just how full of shit the Republican party is on this, note how the exact same people who were up in arms over Lewinsky were calling with equal passion for a pardon of Scooter Libby - who definitely lied about relevant matters and was convicted because of it.
Republican support turned against Bush a while back. Calling your base racist and pushing through an amnesty for 20 million illegals when the base overwhelmingly opposes it tends to do that.
Hardly. Bush's stance on immigration is not new; you also knew you were voting for a lazy incompetent in 2000 and a lazy incompetent Constitution shredding warmonger in 2004. No, the Republican party started verbally backing away from Bush when they realized that he was killing their election chances for a generation, nevermind that they backed him and his policies to the hilt. I say "verbally" because they still back him to the hilt on every issue except immigration.
Conservatism has failed America. Completely and utterly failed. Conservatives response to this fact is not to re-access their platform, but to claim that their conservatives leaders really weren't conservative:
Richard Cohen discovers something some of us on the right have been saying for a while: if you hold your head just so and look at Bush from the right angle, he looks an awful lot like a liberal.
Political parties have no duties, only the need and desire to keep themselves in power.
The opposition party in government is made up of senators and representatives. Those senators and representatives all took oaths promising to defend the Constitution, which they are breaking by not dong their utmost to impeach the most impeach the most impeachable administration in history.
What is boring is people continuing to talk about how boring Al Gore is after Bush has shredded the Constitution, blown a hole in the budget the size of the moon and gotten thousands of Americans killed.
I am a staunch libertarian and advocate for personal right to privacy, but there are no valid reasons for drivers to be concerned about their privacy in this scenario. Are airline pilots in danger of having their privacy violated because the aircraft's current trajectory and speed is logged?
What a marvelously horrible analogy. Airplane movements are tracked and logged so they don't fly into eachother. This relates to driving automobiles how, exactly?
There are a lot of other differences between the current US and the original US federal government. The biggest would probably be the popular election of senators. It used to be that the senate represented the state governments - so a program like the Real ID program would never pass the senate if the state governments didn't like it. Now the senate is essentially a redundant house of reps with an odd apportionment of representation (not even remotely related to size of constituency).
On the flip side, senators have to at least make a show of serving the residents of their state, instead of the party that last gerrymandered the state legislature.
Him and the people who voted for him. Rather than try and reform the party closest to his views (the Democrats), he threw the election to an incompetent idiot that was 180 degrees opposed to everything he stood for.
I thought gore won the popular vote.
And the electoral vote as well, if Florida had recounted all the ballots cast in the 2000 election.
Call me not "son," unless you know that you are older than me. Chances are you ain't. I'm a bit long in the tooth and my beard is rather grey. Remember hippies? I wasn't one, but I remember the smell.
Physically, you could be a dinosaur, but your attitude, lack of basic reasoning ability, and poor reading comprehension places you firmly in the 12-15 year old bracket. Son.
You already knew about the court's judgment but choose to ignore it
Oh, hardly. Faxed in ballots were counted, remember? Besides, Hurron's strategy was perfectly legit, because presidential elections are a state matter, and his proposed challenges rested on state law.
and prove your assertion that "Bush did it worse" by emphatic assertion
You presume to lecture me on election history, and don't know about Florida's bogus felon list?
You forget that I am pissed that Gore's team
It wasn't "Gore's team", it was "one person on Gore's team".
BUT YOU'D RATHER CHANGE THE SUBJECT!
It's the SAME subject, you incompetent boob. Vote suppression.
I have my problems with Bush -- like his idiotic desire to give amnesty to illegals and the way he screwed up handling the war
Translation: you are hypocrite. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
As to foes -- you are a foe, right? Uh, so what's the problem?!
Well, you can't abide facts, and I can't abide incompetence.
If you think that most Democrate will be better, they're just as bad.
Sorry, but Nader was a complete fucking idiot for saying that back in 2000, before Bush's incompetence blew a hole in the budget and cost the lives of 10,000 Americans.
You are so full of shit. The simple fact is that it was all laid out on a silver platter on George Bush's desk: Al Qaeda determined to strike the US, and that they might use planes to do so. He ignored it just like he ignored the U.S.S. Cole bombing. And when the attacks did happen, he ignored them and stuck his nose in a children's storybook. Another fact is that Clinton cared more about getting Osama than Bush cares about getting him after he killed thousands of Americans.
I quote the law and the court case and all you can say is "yawn" and complain that they did it worse. Yeah, right. Sure.
Son, I already knew about the lawsuits and the consent decree. What you are ignoring is the fact that counties went well beyond that in counting absentee ballots.
And yes, Bush DID do it worse, and his supporters are STILL doing it worse. So once again: are you holding Bush to the same standard as Gore, or are you are a IOKIYAAR hypocrite?
Son, that was a list of you foes. Of which you made me one after a single post. And I thought they tried to drive out the overly sensitive and obtuse recruits in the first week...
Yawn. Yes, I know about the consent degree Florida made with the Feds. However, accepting military absentee ballots went waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond that, even to the point of accepting ballots that were faxed in. And since you want to be anal, you are Wrong-O that the strategy of challenging military ballots was Gore's. It was one of his attorneys. Now Gore was of course responsible for the actions of his team, but they backpedaled, especially since they were arguing at the time that "every vote should count". Gore's biggest ally in the state, the Democratic attorney general, told election boards that the point of an election was to count votes, not make voters jump through hoops. Gore's "intent of the voter" lawsuit also helped military votes get counted.
But if you still want to hold a grudge against Gore over the Herron memo, it's a free country. But you better hold a bigger one against Bush and Rove since they went waaaaay beyond Herron and managed to steal at least one presidential election by it, and turned the Department of Justice into the Department of Depressing the Vote. Or you are a complete hypocrite.
You mention McCain to defend the Democrats? The subject is whether or not both sides use "innuendo, lies, and manipulation," so that's not really germane.
No. The point, obviously, was that Republicans go beyond the pall when it comes to political attacks, even when the target is another Republican. But then, your wit does seem be as thin as the skin on your nose.
You are a tool. Your link says nothing about taking money away from doctors. As for savings, obviously, they will come from no longer paying insurance companies gigantic premiums so they can take the money you just paid them and use it to try and deny you as much care as possible. Cuba - freaking Cuba - has almost caught up to the United States on health care, and they spend 1/30th as much per patient.
But your argument rests on the hope that corporations will put long term energy over massive, short term profits. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
The only facts that Al Gore deals in are the ones he distorts for his twisted agenda.
Yawn. Gore has his opinions, but they are backed up by decades of impartial research. As opposed to you flat earthers, who rely on lies and asshatery.
I deal with the facts as they are. RealClimate is run by real partisans, bought and paid for by the State, some of whom have degrees.
Paid by the state? Do you have any idea who has been president for the last 6 years and who had control of Congress for the last 14? Have members of your family argued that keeping children away from lead paint and mercury out of their food were "real partisans?"
That link has nothing to do with ice cores. No climate scientist or anyone even vaugely aquanted with the data, would dispute that Antarctica is in a cooling trend according to the ice cores. I'm not going to do your research for you. Download some ice core data.
You expect me to prove your points for you? Find your own damned links, lazyass.
And, as I stated before, the antarctic is cooling, and even your flunkies at the IPCC would back me up on that one.
Once again, realities well known liberal bias and smacks down your bullshit, here and here.
Maybe you should try to think of the global economy as an ecosystem, and then you will start to see the light. You can't just say, oh, we'll just wipe out the plankton, big deal. It is a big deal with repercussions that far exceed what can be anticipated. Same thing with wiping out a major industry in the economy. Economic tampering by socialistic lunatics has the potential to bring far more suffering into the world than you are obviously aware. Even the minor U.S. political tampering with ethanol demand is already causing artificial food crises in various parts of the world. But it's a logical fallacy regardless to try to defend your position by saying that the consequences of your position are more terrible than my position. The bottom line is that your position is based on a combination of obsolete hypotheses, political opportunism, peer pressure, propaganda and lies. There's no reason for any reasonable person to believe in it, no matter how horrible its predictions are. If you want a doomsday prediction to guide science and government action, you should start thinking about the next ice age, which will mean the obliteration of life as we know it, and has the added advantage of being nonfictional.
Can be summarized as: E++99, low on facts, but has a lock on self-centered, irresponsible greed.
Unless someone has a reason to remember you, they will forget that they saw you walking or driving in public in about 3 seconds. Contrast that to having your exact location, method of transport, and time of travel stored in a permanent, searchable database.
Slashdot Mirror
The facts aren't really in dispute. Clinton committed perjury on a Federal Grand Jury investigation and committed witness tampering (coaching Monica Lewinsky on what to say) with respect to a Special Prosecutor investigation.
Oh yes they are.
If you want to impeach Bush, impeach him for failing to protect the border.
In other words: your pathetic excuse to bail on Bush (his stance on immigration is not new, you knew exactly what you were getting in 2000 and keeping in 2004) so he can be the scape goat for the complete and utter failure of the entire conservative movement.
But, how many Democrats joined in on the vote? 0? In other words, the parties don't eat their own.
Nah, they just didn't sign up for the right's bullshit witch hunt meant to undo the 92 and 96 elections.
But Clinton lied, under oath, to a judge.
Bullshit.
Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury on oath to a Grand Jury, not a blow job witch hunt.
Bullshit. For it to be perjury during the grand jury trial, it would have had to be about something A) relevant, B) it requires taking Lewinsky's story as fact, despite the fact that she lied about it, and C) has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. During the regular trial, the judged ruled that whatever happened between Monica and Bill was irrelevant to the Jones case - and if it's not relevant, it's not perjury.
So in other words, it absolutely was a witch hunt meant to undo the 1992 and 1996 elections. They came up empty on investigating and re-investigating and re-investigating Whitewater and Vince Foster, so they settled for a perjury trap instead. The purpose of the justice system is to punish the guilty, not make the innocent jump through hoops until the prosecution can manufacture a perjury charge. To see just how full of shit the Republican party is on this, note how the exact same people who were up in arms over Lewinsky were calling with equal passion for a pardon of Scooter Libby - who definitely lied about relevant matters and was convicted because of it.
Hardly. Bush's stance on immigration is not new; you also knew you were voting for a lazy incompetent in 2000 and a lazy incompetent Constitution shredding warmonger in 2004. No, the Republican party started verbally backing away from Bush when they realized that he was killing their election chances for a generation, nevermind that they backed him and his policies to the hilt. I say "verbally" because they still back him to the hilt on every issue except immigration.
Conservatism has failed America. Completely and utterly failed. Conservatives response to this fact is not to re-access their platform, but to claim that their conservatives leaders really weren't conservative:
Political parties have no duties, only the need and desire to keep themselves in power.
The opposition party in government is made up of senators and representatives. Those senators and representatives all took oaths promising to defend the Constitution, which they are breaking by not dong their utmost to impeach the most impeach the most impeachable administration in history.
What is boring is people continuing to talk about how boring Al Gore is after Bush has shredded the Constitution, blown a hole in the budget the size of the moon and gotten thousands of Americans killed.
i'm not one for impeachment, it's a radical act
Not impeaching Bush and Cheney is what's radical. They've done enough to be forcibly removed from office dozens of times over.
and yet, with all of those awful deficits
You mean the ones that the Republicans and the media invented?
I am a staunch libertarian and advocate for personal right to privacy, but there are no valid reasons for drivers to be concerned about their privacy in this scenario. Are airline pilots in danger of having their privacy violated because the aircraft's current trajectory and speed is logged?
What a marvelously horrible analogy. Airplane movements are tracked and logged so they don't fly into eachother. This relates to driving automobiles how, exactly?
There's plenty to hold the administration accountable for without making shit up.
There are a lot of other differences between the current US and the original US federal government. The biggest would probably be the popular election of senators. It used to be that the senate represented the state governments - so a program like the Real ID program would never pass the senate if the state governments didn't like it. Now the senate is essentially a redundant house of reps with an odd apportionment of representation (not even remotely related to size of constituency).
On the flip side, senators have to at least make a show of serving the residents of their state, instead of the party that last gerrymandered the state legislature.
You are blaming nader?
Him and the people who voted for him. Rather than try and reform the party closest to his views (the Democrats), he threw the election to an incompetent idiot that was 180 degrees opposed to everything he stood for.
I thought gore won the popular vote.
And the electoral vote as well, if Florida had recounted all the ballots cast in the 2000 election.
Call me not "son," unless you know that you are older than me. Chances are you ain't. I'm a bit long in the tooth and my beard is rather grey. Remember hippies? I wasn't one, but I remember the smell.
Physically, you could be a dinosaur, but your attitude, lack of basic reasoning ability, and poor reading comprehension places you firmly in the 12-15 year old bracket. Son.
You already knew about the court's judgment but choose to ignore it
Oh, hardly. Faxed in ballots were counted, remember? Besides, Hurron's strategy was perfectly legit, because presidential elections are a state matter, and his proposed challenges rested on state law.
and prove your assertion that "Bush did it worse" by emphatic assertion
You presume to lecture me on election history, and don't know about Florida's bogus felon list?
You forget that I am pissed that Gore's team
It wasn't "Gore's team", it was "one person on Gore's team".
BUT YOU'D RATHER CHANGE THE SUBJECT!
It's the SAME subject, you incompetent boob. Vote suppression.
I have my problems with Bush -- like his idiotic desire to give amnesty to illegals and the way he screwed up handling the war
Translation: you are hypocrite. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
As to foes -- you are a foe, right? Uh, so what's the problem?!
Well, you can't abide facts, and I can't abide incompetence.
If you think that most Democrate will be better, they're just as bad.
Sorry, but Nader was a complete fucking idiot for saying that back in 2000, before Bush's incompetence blew a hole in the budget and cost the lives of 10,000 Americans.
You are so full of shit. The simple fact is that it was all laid out on a silver platter on George Bush's desk: Al Qaeda determined to strike the US, and that they might use planes to do so. He ignored it just like he ignored the U.S.S. Cole bombing. And when the attacks did happen, he ignored them and stuck his nose in a children's storybook. Another fact is that Clinton cared more about getting Osama than Bush cares about getting him after he killed thousands of Americans.
I think the chair from the Happiness and Slavery music video would be rather intimidating. :)
Threaten cell execs with the chair and maybe they'd shape up....
I quote the law and the court case and all you can say is "yawn" and complain that they did it worse. Yeah, right. Sure.
Son, I already knew about the lawsuits and the consent decree. What you are ignoring is the fact that counties went well beyond that in counting absentee ballots.
And yes, Bush DID do it worse, and his supporters are STILL doing it worse. So once again: are you holding Bush to the same standard as Gore, or are you are a IOKIYAAR hypocrite?
If you want to insult me by calling me thin skinned, try using the right link http://slashdot.org/~Ranten_N_Raven/journal/ Pathetic.
Son, that was a list of you foes. Of which you made me one after a single post. And I thought they tried to drive out the overly sensitive and obtuse recruits in the first week...
Wrong-O, dude, on two counts:
Yawn. Yes, I know about the consent degree Florida made with the Feds. However, accepting military absentee ballots went waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond that, even to the point of accepting ballots that were faxed in. And since you want to be anal, you are Wrong-O that the strategy of challenging military ballots was Gore's. It was one of his attorneys. Now Gore was of course responsible for the actions of his team, but they backpedaled, especially since they were arguing at the time that "every vote should count". Gore's biggest ally in the state, the Democratic attorney general, told election boards that the point of an election was to count votes, not make voters jump through hoops. Gore's "intent of the voter" lawsuit also helped military votes get counted.
But if you still want to hold a grudge against Gore over the Herron memo, it's a free country. But you better hold a bigger one against Bush and Rove since they went waaaaay beyond Herron and managed to steal at least one presidential election by it, and turned the Department of Justice into the Department of Depressing the Vote. Or you are a complete hypocrite.
You mention McCain to defend the Democrats? The subject is whether or not both sides use "innuendo, lies, and manipulation," so that's not really germane.
No. The point, obviously, was that Republicans go beyond the pall when it comes to political attacks, even when the target is another Republican. But then, your wit does seem be as thin as the skin on your nose.
You are a tool. Your link says nothing about taking money away from doctors. As for savings, obviously, they will come from no longer paying insurance companies gigantic premiums so they can take the money you just paid them and use it to try and deny you as much care as possible. Cuba - freaking Cuba - has almost caught up to the United States on health care, and they spend 1/30th as much per patient.
But your argument rests on the hope that corporations will put long term energy over massive, short term profits. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
The only facts that Al Gore deals in are the ones he distorts for his twisted agenda.
Yawn. Gore has his opinions, but they are backed up by decades of impartial research. As opposed to you flat earthers, who rely on lies and asshatery.
I deal with the facts as they are. RealClimate is run by real partisans, bought and paid for by the State, some of whom have degrees.
Paid by the state? Do you have any idea who has been president for the last 6 years and who had control of Congress for the last 14? Have members of your family argued that keeping children away from lead paint and mercury out of their food were "real partisans?"
That link has nothing to do with ice cores. No climate scientist or anyone even vaugely aquanted with the data, would dispute that Antarctica is in a cooling trend according to the ice cores. I'm not going to do your research for you. Download some ice core data.
You expect me to prove your points for you? Find your own damned links, lazyass.
And, as I stated before, the antarctic is cooling, and even your flunkies at the IPCC would back me up on that one.
Once again, realities well known liberal bias and smacks down your bullshit, here and here.
Maybe you should try to think of the global economy as an ecosystem, and then you will start to see the light. You can't just say, oh, we'll just wipe out the plankton, big deal. It is a big deal with repercussions that far exceed what can be anticipated. Same thing with wiping out a major industry in the economy. Economic tampering by socialistic lunatics has the potential to bring far more suffering into the world than you are obviously aware. Even the minor U.S. political tampering with ethanol demand is already causing artificial food crises in various parts of the world. But it's a logical fallacy regardless to try to defend your position by saying that the consequences of your position are more terrible than my position. The bottom line is that your position is based on a combination of obsolete hypotheses, political opportunism, peer pressure, propaganda and lies. There's no reason for any reasonable person to believe in it, no matter how horrible its predictions are. If you want a doomsday prediction to guide science and government action, you should start thinking about the next ice age, which will mean the obliteration of life as we know it, and has the added advantage of being nonfictional.
Can be summarized as: E++99, low on facts, but has a lock on self-centered, irresponsible greed.
Unless someone has a reason to remember you, they will forget that they saw you walking or driving in public in about 3 seconds. Contrast that to having your exact location, method of transport, and time of travel stored in a permanent, searchable database.
You want me to compensate for your lack of imagination? Okay, here's two: polio, and the Tennessee Valley Authority.