Except Microsoft is locking down Metro with ridiculous restrictions.
There are really two types of restrictions.
1) A move towards trusted computing. This has been something clients want and other clients can't stand. But ultimately if you want to be able to disseminate documents while retaining control of them you need trusted computing.
2) An app store distribution model. Which so far customers seem to love. People who use computers are tired of software anarchy, installing software is for most people and companies simply too dangerous. Viruses, adware, software that installs services... has destroyed the sort of open software world of the 80s and early 90s and instead created an effectively locked down world. You might not like this but 20 years is a long to wait for the freedom crowd to come up with a better answer.
I disagree that Apple has too much control. I use OSX everyday and iOS everyday I don't feel terrible imprisoned. And Apple provides lots of ways to get more freedom if you really want it.
As for compatibility yes Microsoft is back and forth on how compatible they want to be with other people's server or desktop solutions and in what combinations.
I also dislike the fact that vulns go unpatched for far too long.
I'd argue they've excellent at this compared to most anyone else. Arguably they shouldn't be creating such a large attack surface but the level of responsiveness being bad?
However, for any kind of creative work, I need windows, windows, windows. I need lots of information sources
What's the problem with the way Metro handles that (i.e. snap to grids of applications)? From your comment it sounds like you think Metro is one app at a time. Try dragging a window to the right hand side then go back to the launcher and control the grid (or grids) from there.
What does shill even mean? Do you really think I've been posting on thousands of topics on/. for a dozen years just to earn credibility to say nice stuff about Microsoft in 2012? Yes, I agree with Balmer and yes I think Win8 is a great approach. Oh and just to compound it I happen to think the.NET compiler was one of the most innovative compilers ever written and I think there are some other amazing technologies at research.microsoft.com's language group that don't get nearly enough coverage on/. But one of the reasons is because Balmer hasn't pushed them but sat on them and I've been critical of Balmer for those calls.
That's a different issue than functionality. What you are saying is it is a greater functionality but it requires technological incorporation. I agree networking is likely to end up being like the electrical grid something that just exists in the background and is fundamentally inescapable.
In that world people will have different attitudes about privacy. It will likely be more like living in a small town where everyone knows everyone's business to living in NY where no one much cares what you do.
Take for example the scene where Alya moves the presentation from her phone to her tablet viewer that is remote screen technology. Sure that exists today but it doesn't work well. And to make it work everything needs to be scalable.
I haven't heard anything positive about WIndows 8 yet. All I've seen is people saying that you can get used to it, and it's not so bad. Kinda. Sort of. Hardly glorious praise.
I'll give it strong praise. It has a tremendously innovative interface far more advanced than iOS. For example things like video in icons. The 2012Q4 hardware that it has allowed is incredible, laptops that will be far more versatile than the traditional ones. I'm a mac guy for over 10 years and I'm seriously considering buying a Win8 all-in-one desktop as the best large screen tablet I've ever seen. I love my retina but the Lenovo is a more advanced laptop in a lot of ways, a feeling I haven't had in years.
The learning curve for these interfaces should be quite shallow and job specific.
That hasn't been my experience. I'm a heavy GPS user for many years. I find functionality quite often hidden and the interfaces terrible. Even on simple devices functionality and the effects of different things in combination are unclear. I'd love for example to be able to hit "help" and get a clear description of what some of the features on my toaster oven do and how to use them in combination. I'd love to be able to do a partial load of contacts from my cell phone to my home phone and not have it be all or none. Etc...
N9 did quite well in the markets it was released to. It always got great reviews for the interface. That's the reason Jolla picked it up and is continuing with it.
He has picked a direction. When he took over he built a powerful suite of enterprise applications which allowed the Windows server to keep moving up market and owning a greater share of the enterprise software budget. Now he's driving through a ubiquitous computing interface which will allow Microsoft to be functional on a huge range of hardware.
That's Apple's theory. And if it is true then ubiquitous computing fails and we are in the world of a unique GUI for every type of device and people having to learn many many interfaces in exchange for each one being hardware tweaked.
Microsoft's theory is that with OS support for automatically rendering in an interface appropriate way things can operate across different types of hardware.
We'll see who's right, or if both are good and both can coexist. It isn't obvious to me that Apple's approach is better overall.
Microsoft beat DEC, Unisys and IBM by moving from consumer to enterprise. They do not want Android and iOS to do to them what they did to get to be in the place to kiss ass. So Win 8 is all about not losing the consumer space.
Take a look at the x86 hardware in the mid range that's come out. No. It is not known. Microsoft cannot allow the GDI style interface which is non scalable to hold them back anymore. I agree that Win 9 will be much more stable and consistent, Win 8 is clearly a transitional OS. But they aren't going back to Win32 desktops anymore than XP was a return to DOS, or Win98 a return to.pif files and non overlapping GUI elements.
I agree. Part of the problem is they have had a culture of compatibility where it is easy to write applications that work well across many versions. Contrast that with OSX where Apple released 10.7.3 in February and by Oct almost all applications updates required 10.7.3. I don't know if Microsoft wants to move their software infrastructure that fast but clearly Apple is showing them the path.
Microsoft tried a subscription model when XP came out. Business rejected it. As for updates vs. upgrades. While there is a lot of continuity between modern windows versions and NT 3.51 there is a lot of continuity between NT 3.51 and DOS 2.0. And arguably a lot of continuity between DOS 2.0 and CP/M systems before it. Version just means "lots of new stuff" not a fundamental redesign. Microsoft has put lots of new stuff in each of their OSes.
I'm sure that's enough to get screams of protest from people who dislike any kind of change. And of course that's the majority of computer users.
Lots of computer users have a rather negative experience with Windows. At work they have locked down low power systems. At home they have cheap systems loaded to the gills with crapware. I'd say Windows Power users, which is a large chunk of the/. crowd, and always has been, hate the change to Windows 8. I suspect the vast majority of end users will love the change to Windows 8. One of the things that people don't notice and I was floored by is that computer literacy is crashing. Gen-Xers and Millennials are very competent on computers. iGen on the other hand find the historical accumulation on systems like Windows too complex. They like other OSes with less historical baggage (Android, Win mobile, MeeGo, iOS...). That's an important constituency.
It's a bet on the long term future, and regardless of whether it pays off I think it was a sensible bet.
Agreed. Ubiquitous computing is a very exciting program. And whether it works or doesn't it is great to see Microsoft exercising technological leadership again.
If they're ditching Sinofsky for genuine personnel reasons, that's fine. If they're thinking of making Windows 9 more like Windows 7, I think they're kneecapping their long term future for near term benefit.
Exactly. Windows 9 should be like Windows 8 but even further. Win7 should be a guest OS running on the Hypervisor, which doesn't boot by default. Like the Classic environment when Apple switched to OSX. That starts to really strongly push the user base away from Win32 applications. If developers find out next year that's the intent they will start writing Metro GUIs to allow their apps to install in both environments (sort of like the Carbon porting libraries).
I think you bought it as-is with the promise of an upgrade path. In particular a promise that Microsoft could and would move on to new systems as would the software. Microsoft created a stagnant world and now they have to change buying patterns.
Of course they get that. But the OS doesn't meaningfully don't control workflow. That's an application issue, that comes next. In particular "click" i.e. mouse is something they need to diversify.
Good post I agree. Though I think for business the XP -> Windows 7 migration continues for several more years. I see Windows 8 as mainly a transitional OS for developers for new Metro style software and hardware manufacturers to give them something to target.
I'd hope this was a personality or really an interpersonal thing and not a strategy choice. If Microsoft starts going squishy on Windows 8 i.e. Metro they will blow a crucial part of their strategy. I don't see how they pick a different OS strategy at this point than ubiquitous computing. Releasing another new paradigm in 2014-5 will be a complete yawn.
The 2012Q4 x86 midlevel hardware has been really exciting stuff, innovative. As the hardware manufacturers start one another's ideas 2013Q1 laptops and even desktops are going to feel a 6 years ahead of 2012Q1. That's an impressive accomplishment and I'd hope that Microsoft doesn't walk it back because other divisions are getting cold feet.
I understand what you said above. But that's not a function of the window manager's behavior. Anyway. in context you should have said, Gnome 2. Gnome2 uses Metacity which is a dead project. Try to recreate the problem with Mutter. If you can't then the problem is solved.
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Try it with actual Win32 graphics / fonts. It doesn't work. It may work in theory but in practice, no.
Except Microsoft is locking down Metro with ridiculous restrictions.
There are really two types of restrictions.
1) A move towards trusted computing. This has been something clients want and other clients can't stand. But ultimately if you want to be able to disseminate documents while retaining control of them you need trusted computing.
2) An app store distribution model. Which so far customers seem to love. People who use computers are tired of software anarchy, installing software is for most people and companies simply too dangerous. Viruses, adware, software that installs services ... has destroyed the sort of open software world of the 80s and early 90s and instead created an effectively locked down world. You might not like this but 20 years is a long to wait for the freedom crowd to come up with a better answer.
I disagree that Apple has too much control. I use OSX everyday and iOS everyday I don't feel terrible imprisoned. And Apple provides lots of ways to get more freedom if you really want it.
At least, I haven't read or heard of anything in the new OS that would require it to be completely changed.
Graphical scalability, all vector graphics. Improved multi-monitor (i.e. individual taskbars, individual wallpaper..). Windows-to-go (i.e. boot from storage devices). Hypervisor integration. Should I keep going?
I'm too old to be a fanboi. My generation invented using "paradigm" for culturally bound thought patterns. Now get off my lawn!
inability to have a default password for a single-user machine that the PC itself will enter on boot
That's called automatic login. Not only can you have that, you can have multiple accounts where the login is automatic.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-security/how-to-turn-on-automatic-logon-in-windows-7/99d4fe75-3f22-499b-85fc-c7a2c4f728af
As for compatibility yes Microsoft is back and forth on how compatible they want to be with other people's server or desktop solutions and in what combinations.
I also dislike the fact that vulns go unpatched for far too long.
I'd argue they've excellent at this compared to most anyone else. Arguably they shouldn't be creating such a large attack surface but the level of responsiveness being bad?
However, for any kind of creative work, I need windows, windows, windows. I need lots of information sources
What's the problem with the way Metro handles that (i.e. snap to grids of applications)? From your comment it sounds like you think Metro is one app at a time. Try dragging a window to the right hand side then go back to the launcher and control the grid (or grids) from there.
Yes it is. So hopefully we won't have x86 devices lacking a touchscreen or other input like the cintiq for long.
What does shill even mean? Do you really think I've been posting on thousands of topics on /. for a dozen years just to earn credibility to say nice stuff about Microsoft in 2012? Yes, I agree with Balmer and yes I think Win8 is a great approach. Oh and just to compound it I happen to think the .NET compiler was one of the most innovative compilers ever written and I think there are some other amazing technologies at research.microsoft.com's language group that don't get nearly enough coverage on /. But one of the reasons is because Balmer hasn't pushed them but sat on them and I've been critical of Balmer for those calls.
That's a different issue than functionality. What you are saying is it is a greater functionality but it requires technological incorporation. I agree networking is likely to end up being like the electrical grid something that just exists in the background and is fundamentally inescapable.
In that world people will have different attitudes about privacy. It will likely be more like living in a small town where everyone knows everyone's business to living in NY where no one much cares what you do.
Take for example the scene where Alya moves the presentation from her phone to her tablet viewer that is remote screen technology. Sure that exists today but it doesn't work well. And to make it work everything needs to be scalable.
I haven't heard anything positive about WIndows 8 yet. All I've seen is people saying that you can get used to it, and it's not so bad. Kinda. Sort of. Hardly glorious praise.
I'll give it strong praise. It has a tremendously innovative interface far more advanced than iOS. For example things like video in icons. The 2012Q4 hardware that it has allowed is incredible, laptops that will be far more versatile than the traditional ones. I'm a mac guy for over 10 years and I'm seriously considering buying a Win8 all-in-one desktop as the best large screen tablet I've ever seen. I love my retina but the Lenovo is a more advanced laptop in a lot of ways, a feeling I haven't had in years.
The learning curve for these interfaces should be quite shallow and job specific.
That hasn't been my experience. I'm a heavy GPS user for many years. I find functionality quite often hidden and the interfaces terrible. Even on simple devices functionality and the effects of different things in combination are unclear. I'd love for example to be able to hit "help" and get a clear description of what some of the features on my toaster oven do and how to use them in combination. I'd love to be able to do a partial load of contacts from my cell phone to my home phone and not have it be all or none. Etc...
N9 did quite well in the markets it was released to. It always got great reviews for the interface. That's the reason Jolla picked it up and is continuing with it.
He has picked a direction. When he took over he built a powerful suite of enterprise applications which allowed the Windows server to keep moving up market and owning a greater share of the enterprise software budget. Now he's driving through a ubiquitous computing interface which will allow Microsoft to be functional on a huge range of hardware.
That's a direction.
That's Apple's theory. And if it is true then ubiquitous computing fails and we are in the world of a unique GUI for every type of device and people having to learn many many interfaces in exchange for each one being hardware tweaked.
Microsoft's theory is that with OS support for automatically rendering in an interface appropriate way things can operate across different types of hardware.
We'll see who's right, or if both are good and both can coexist. It isn't obvious to me that Apple's approach is better overall.
Microsoft beat DEC, Unisys and IBM by moving from consumer to enterprise. They do not want Android and iOS to do to them what they did to get to be in the place to kiss ass. So Win 8 is all about not losing the consumer space.
Take a look at the x86 hardware in the mid range that's come out. No. It is not known. Microsoft cannot allow the GDI style interface which is non scalable to hold them back anymore. I agree that Win 9 will be much more stable and consistent, Win 8 is clearly a transitional OS. But they aren't going back to Win32 desktops anymore than XP was a return to DOS, or Win98 a return to .pif files and non overlapping GUI elements.
I'm not going to apologize for thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cNdhOKwi0
is way better than what we have today.
I agree. Part of the problem is they have had a culture of compatibility where it is easy to write applications that work well across many versions. Contrast that with OSX where Apple released 10.7.3 in February and by Oct almost all applications updates required 10.7.3. I don't know if Microsoft wants to move their software infrastructure that fast but clearly Apple is showing them the path.
Microsoft tried a subscription model when XP came out. Business rejected it. As for updates vs. upgrades. While there is a lot of continuity between modern windows versions and NT 3.51 there is a lot of continuity between NT 3.51 and DOS 2.0. And arguably a lot of continuity between DOS 2.0 and CP/M systems before it. Version just means "lots of new stuff" not a fundamental redesign. Microsoft has put lots of new stuff in each of their OSes.
I'm sure that's enough to get screams of protest from people who dislike any kind of change. And of course that's the majority of computer users.
Lots of computer users have a rather negative experience with Windows. At work they have locked down low power systems. At home they have cheap systems loaded to the gills with crapware. I'd say Windows Power users, which is a large chunk of the /. crowd, and always has been, hate the change to Windows 8. I suspect the vast majority of end users will love the change to Windows 8. One of the things that people don't notice and I was floored by is that computer literacy is crashing. Gen-Xers and Millennials are very competent on computers. iGen on the other hand find the historical accumulation on systems like Windows too complex. They like other OSes with less historical baggage (Android, Win mobile, MeeGo, iOS...). That's an important constituency.
It's a bet on the long term future, and regardless of whether it pays off I think it was a sensible bet.
Agreed. Ubiquitous computing is a very exciting program. And whether it works or doesn't it is great to see Microsoft exercising technological leadership again.
If they're ditching Sinofsky for genuine personnel reasons, that's fine. If they're thinking of making Windows 9 more like Windows 7, I think they're kneecapping their long term future for near term benefit.
Exactly. Windows 9 should be like Windows 8 but even further. Win7 should be a guest OS running on the Hypervisor, which doesn't boot by default. Like the Classic environment when Apple switched to OSX. That starts to really strongly push the user base away from Win32 applications. If developers find out next year that's the intent they will start writing Metro GUIs to allow their apps to install in both environments (sort of like the Carbon porting libraries).
I think you bought it as-is with the promise of an upgrade path. In particular a promise that Microsoft could and would move on to new systems as would the software. Microsoft created a stagnant world and now they have to change buying patterns.
Of course they get that. But the OS doesn't meaningfully don't control workflow. That's an application issue, that comes next. In particular "click" i.e. mouse is something they need to diversify.
Good post I agree. Though I think for business the XP -> Windows 7 migration continues for several more years. I see Windows 8 as mainly a transitional OS for developers for new Metro style software and hardware manufacturers to give them something to target.
I'd hope this was a personality or really an interpersonal thing and not a strategy choice. If Microsoft starts going squishy on Windows 8 i.e. Metro they will blow a crucial part of their strategy. I don't see how they pick a different OS strategy at this point than ubiquitous computing. Releasing another new paradigm in 2014-5 will be a complete yawn.
The 2012Q4 x86 midlevel hardware has been really exciting stuff, innovative. As the hardware manufacturers start one another's ideas 2013Q1 laptops and even desktops are going to feel a 6 years ahead of 2012Q1. That's an impressive accomplishment and I'd hope that Microsoft doesn't walk it back because other divisions are getting cold feet.
I understand what you said above. But that's not a function of the window manager's behavior. Anyway. in context you should have said, Gnome 2. Gnome2 uses Metacity which is a dead project. Try to recreate the problem with Mutter. If you can't then the problem is solved.