That sounds more or less correct. However, are you saying that is somehow unusual? The QPL discriminates combination based on some factors, and the GPL does the same thing based in others.
At least the QPL only forbids actual mixing of derivative works, while some claim the GPL forbids just linking to other works.
And having said that: why on earth would someone do that to a window manager? Qt is a library, the way to use it is to link to it.
The QPL is a good license FOR LIBRARIES.
If you have two QPL libraries, you can link to both just fine.
they [programs developed with kdevelop] don't embody the soul of what the operating system is supposed to be about
Guess what? It doesn't matter at all.
The operating system is the operating system, and the apps are the apps. the apps are not the operating system, and none of these have a soul, so they embode nothing.
KDevelop is not even specially oriented at Linux users, anyway.
Some of the criticisms, I agree with (say, the colon;-)
However, there are some that are just lack of knowledge of python. For instance, the 'self'.
Why is it extremely nice to have self declared explicitly? Because you can do things like this:
class dummyclass: pass
def myfunc(self,args): (do something interesting here)
dummyclass.func=myfunc
The same thing is true about data members in classes. Not defining them lets you add extra data members per instance, which you can use as, for example, persistent values for functions (like a static C++ variable in a method)
Besides, it lets you extend a class and have the extension apply to all the instances!
class dummy: pass a=dummy()
dummy.num=5 print a.num
will give a 5:-)
This is very very cool and lets you do all sorts of interesting stuff, like classes that extend themselves by plugging other classes into them.
Besides, if you really want... you CAN fix the data members of a class, except it will only cause a runtime error, not a compiletime one, by overriding the mechanism for attribute changing.
Well, I'm not sure about 3d data visualization controls, since that can describe a hundred different things, but there IS a phase-of-the-moon widget for Qt.
The Co2 that is in the atmosphere is a tiny fraction of the CO2 that is dissolved in the ocean, and the ocean is not ven close to being saturated (think carbonated water:-)
So, the real problem is that because the contact surface between the ocean and the air is too small, (and the temperature too cold?) and the air is above the ocean;-) oceans are absorving CO2 too slowly.
Solutions:
What, you thought I actually had one?;-)
Who knows, maybe when the CO2 concentration in the air rises, oceans will start absorving quicker (I am no chemist) and it will all self-regulate in such a way that Siberia is a nice place to live, and we can open resorts in Antarctica (the peninsula must have some nasty surf waves!)
Nobody is going to setup a HCI lab and testing facility for free.
Not all kinds of workers are as happy about working for free as we programmers are.
BTW: I had read this article a few days ago, and some of the things in it are in discussion with other KDE developers both in kde-core-devel and on private email.
"Last time I looked at the KDE source, it was licensed under the GPL. "
Not all of it. All of kdesupport is under LGPL or has special permission to be used in KDE (that's basically mimelib).
All of kdelibs is LGPL or freer.
KWM is Artistic. KPanel is artistic.
A dozen other apps are artistic, too.
Now, I MAY understand that Debian didn't feel like splitting kdebase to remove all the GPLd software they are so afraid of, but why not redistribute kdesupport and kdelibs?
After KRASH is released, they could even put them in main.
"The reason that KDE have been excluded from Debian (non-free/... section) was NOT because Qt was not free. That was because of the licence conflict caused by Qt and KDE."
Which plugs nicely into the question I asked below: what was the reason to remove the packages that are under the LGPL?
When the Debian project removed the KDE packages from their distribution, the given reason was that KDE could not be legally distributed without violating the GPL.
However, at least two of the packages removed, kdesupport and kdelibs, were not licensed under the GPL, but under the LGPL.
So, regardless of wether it was correct or not to remove kdebase/utils/etc, why were these two packages removed?
If these two packages were removed by mistake, what are the chances of them being reinstated?
Please notice that I have personally released at least two package that could be part of debian if kdelibs and kdesupport were not removed.
Before they get the software, they are not licensors of it.
Therefore, if you say minors can't download it, you are not breaking the GPL, because the GPL simply has not been applied yet to a copy given to the minor.
Also: COREL DOES NOT SAY MINORS CAN NOT USE THE SOFTWARE.
Your post is typical of the half-cooked responses this thread is full of.
"Imagine if u voluntarily wrote some code, some "free and open" code, and some one came along and used your code in a derivitive work and then released it as a proprietary product? Would that violate the letter of the law?"
It breaks the letter of the law if my license forbids that action.
"Who are the damaged parties here? Bruce Perens, all minors wishing to "freely acquire" the Corel Linux distribution, perhaps Debian as a whole, many in the Linux Community, and perhaps the GPL itself. "
Whoa! Hold it there. Bruce? He is a damaged party if his software's license is being violated, which I have not seen anyone show HOW it is being done.
The minors? No. They are not being "sold" the Corel distribution. Anyone can refuse to sell anything to anyone. I gave this example before: I have a copy of the Corel ISO. I will NOT give it to you (mowa) even if you ask me. How did I violate any law or license?
Debian is not a legal entity. Debian as a whole has no rights. There is SPI, but they can only complain about violation of licenses of software whose copyright they own.
The GPL is a license, it can not be damaged. Even if this was a breach of the license and the GPL was not enforced, the GPL is not damaged. That happens with trademarks, for example, but not with licenses.
"An entire segment of the population is having their "right" denied, for the benefit of Corel"
And what "right" would that be? The right to download from corel.com? It may surprise you, but that is not a right, it is a privilege, granted by corel.com to whomever they want.
"Bruce Perens has seen the need and responded."
Bruce Perens is talking lawsuits. If he does so in public, it's only honourable that he must give a reason.
"A single company is dictating the rights that the Community may posess."
Nonsense. Corel is simply not granting a PRVILEGE to a group. There is no right being denied to anyone.
"According to Corel our children no longer have the right to "freely acquire" what the Community itself has developed"
Go read the subject of all this. They are not saying that. Corel is saying that minors can not download FROM THEIR SITE. Once anyone has a copy, he is free to let minors "freely acquire" from him.
"Wheather or not the letter or the GPL has been violated,the spirit of the Community has, and that is the infringement. "
The day the inquisition returns, is the day you can start suing people over spiritual matters. Luckily, it's not today.
I said: "I won't answer to generic anti-GUI rants. I will answer to any criticism as soon as it is applied to KDE."
Tom said: "Why? Isn't KDE a GUI? "
If all generic anti-GUI rants applied to all GUIs, then there would be no point on arguing, since the only way to "fix" them would be making them non-GUIs.
So, assuming that the generic anti-GUI rants don't apply to all GUIs, I'll wait for those that apply to the GUI we are talking about.
As per your specific bug:
On what terminal emulator did you find that bug, in Konsole or in Kvt? I can't reproduce it on Konsole.
As per the definition of better: KDEHelp is better than man+less because it works with more documentation formats, and provides the extra feature of hyperlinks. No fiat to be seen.
If you believe man+less (or rather man+more, you are a traditional guy) is better, tell me why and you may convince me.
Slashdot Mirror
That sounds more or less correct. However, are you saying that is somehow unusual? The QPL discriminates combination based on some factors, and the GPL does the same thing based in others.
At least the QPL only forbids actual mixing of derivative works, while some claim the GPL forbids just linking to other works.
And having said that: why on earth would someone do that to a window manager? Qt is a library, the way to use it is to link to it.
The QPL is a good license FOR LIBRARIES.
If you have two QPL libraries, you can link to both just fine.
they [programs developed with kdevelop] don't embody the soul of what the operating system is supposed to be about
Guess what? It doesn't matter at all.
The operating system is the operating system, and the apps are the apps. the apps are not the operating system, and none of these have a soul, so they embode nothing.
KDevelop is not even specially oriented at Linux users, anyway.
Some of the criticisms, I agree with (say, the colon ;-)
:-)
However, there are some that are just lack of knowledge of python. For instance, the 'self'.
Why is it extremely nice to have self declared explicitly? Because you can do things like this:
class dummyclass:
pass
def myfunc(self,args):
(do something interesting here)
dummyclass.func=myfunc
The same thing is true about data members in classes. Not defining them lets you add extra data members per instance, which you can use as, for example, persistent values for functions (like a static C++ variable in a method)
Besides, it lets you extend a class and have the extension apply to all the instances!
class dummy:
pass
a=dummy()
dummy.num=5
print a.num
will give a 5
This is very very cool and lets you do all sorts of interesting stuff, like classes that extend themselves by plugging other classes into them.
Besides, if you really want... you CAN fix the data members of a class, except it will only cause a runtime error, not a compiletime one, by overriding the mechanism for attribute changing.
You can still experience the old-fashioned flaming. Just go over comp.os.os-2.advocacy, look for a post by Dave Tholen, and disagree with him.
You can make it last as long as you want, too, just keep on replying.
Well, I'm not sure about 3d data visualization controls, since that can describe a hundred different things, but there IS a phase-of-the-moon widget for Qt.
As far as I know there has been one case of broken backward compatibility in Qt:
The jump from 1.44 to 2.0.
All KDE 1.x applications work with Qt 1.44 (including, for exmple, KDE 1.0, which was released long before Qt 1.44).
All KDE 2 applications work with unreleased versions of Qt, basically whatever is in the qt-copy module of CVS.
All Qt apps that worked with Qt 2 work with 2.x (not necessarily with the Qt snapshots, of course).
The Co2 that is in the atmosphere is a tiny fraction of the CO2 that is dissolved in the ocean, and the ocean is not ven close to being saturated (think carbonated water :-)
;-) oceans are absorving CO2 too slowly.
;-)
So, the real problem is that because the contact surface between the ocean and the air is too small, (and the temperature too cold?) and the air is above the ocean
Solutions:
What, you thought I actually had one?
Who knows, maybe when the CO2 concentration in the air rises, oceans will start absorving quicker (I am no chemist) and it will all self-regulate in such a way that Siberia is a nice place to live, and we can open resorts in Antarctica (the peninsula must have some nasty surf waves!)
Nobody is going to setup a HCI lab and testing facility for free.
Not all kinds of workers are as happy about working for free as we programmers are.
BTW: I had read this article a few days ago, and some of the things in it are in discussion with other KDE developers both in kde-core-devel and on private email.
Those are not really transparent window borders, they are shaped.
Ie: you don't have an alpha channel, but just a mask.
Those have existed for E and KWM for ages.
The QPL does not make any distinction between platforms. If you want free Qt on windows, it's just a matter of porting.
The eclipse will also be visible in south america (at least that's what the newspaper says).
11PM Argentina, 10PM brazil, midnight Chile, other countries adjust as needed.
"Last time I looked at the KDE source, it was licensed under the GPL. "
Not all of it. All of kdesupport is under LGPL or has special permission to be used in KDE (that's basically mimelib).
All of kdelibs is LGPL or freer.
KWM is Artistic.
KPanel is artistic.
A dozen other apps are artistic, too.
Now, I MAY understand that Debian didn't feel like splitting kdebase to remove all the GPLd software they are so afraid of, but why not redistribute kdesupport and kdelibs?
After KRASH is released, they could even put them in main.
I'll abstain from commenting on the bulk of your post, since I don't want to start a flamewar here.
However: what link says Qt does not come with source? It's right there in ftp.troll.no/qt
"The reason that KDE have been excluded from Debian (non-free/... section) was NOT because Qt was not free. That was because of the licence conflict caused by Qt and KDE."
Which plugs nicely into the question I asked below: what was the reason to remove the packages that are under the LGPL?
When the Debian project removed the KDE packages from their distribution, the given reason was that KDE could not be legally distributed without violating the GPL.
However, at least two of the packages removed, kdesupport and kdelibs, were not licensed under the GPL, but under the LGPL.
So, regardless of wether it was correct or not to remove kdebase/utils/etc, why were these two packages removed?
If these two packages were removed by mistake, what are the chances of them being reinstated?
Please notice that I have personally released at least two package that could be part of debian if kdelibs and kdesupport were not removed.
Before they get the software, they are not licensors of it.
Therefore, if you say minors can't download it, you are not breaking the GPL, because the GPL simply has not been applied yet to a copy given to the minor.
Also: COREL DOES NOT SAY MINORS CAN NOT USE THE SOFTWARE.
Your post is typical of the half-cooked responses this thread is full of.
"Imagine if u voluntarily wrote some code, some "free and open" code, and some one came along and used your code in a derivitive work and then released it as a proprietary product? Would that violate the letter of the law?"
It breaks the letter of the law if my license forbids that action.
"Who are the damaged parties here? Bruce Perens, all minors wishing to "freely acquire" the Corel Linux distribution, perhaps Debian as a whole, many in the Linux Community, and perhaps the GPL itself. "
Whoa! Hold it there.
Bruce? He is a damaged party if his software's license is being violated, which I have not seen anyone show HOW it is being done.
The minors? No. They are not being "sold" the Corel distribution. Anyone can refuse to sell anything to anyone. I gave this example before: I have a copy of the Corel ISO. I will NOT give it to you (mowa) even if you ask me. How did I violate any law or license?
Debian is not a legal entity. Debian as a whole has no rights. There is SPI, but they can only complain about violation of licenses of software whose copyright they own.
The GPL is a license, it can not be damaged. Even if this was a breach of the license and the GPL was not enforced, the GPL is not damaged. That happens with trademarks, for example, but not with licenses.
"An entire segment of the population is having
their "right" denied, for the benefit of Corel"
And what "right" would that be? The right to download from corel.com? It may surprise you, but that is not a right, it is a privilege, granted by corel.com to whomever they want.
"Bruce Perens has seen the need and responded."
Bruce Perens is talking lawsuits. If he does so in public, it's only honourable that he must give a reason.
"A single company is dictating the rights that the Community may posess."
Nonsense. Corel is simply not granting a PRVILEGE to a group. There is no right being denied to anyone.
"According to Corel our children no longer have the right to "freely acquire" what the Community itself has developed"
Go read the subject of all this. They are not saying that. Corel is saying that minors can not download FROM THEIR SITE. Once anyone has a copy, he is free to let minors "freely acquire" from him.
"Wheather or not the letter or the GPL has been violated,the spirit of the Community has, and that is the infringement. "
The day the inquisition returns, is the day you can start suing people over spiritual matters. Luckily, it's not today.
"The Freedom's The Thing. "
Whatever.
Could you translate that for me? :-)
Really, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Oh, but netscape lets you do precisely what you say!
Just set http_proxy=http://my.proxy:port in your environment.
"What you aren't realizing is that the keyboard is much easier to use than the mouse"
That's why he said that the menus in KDE MUST be accessible through the keyboard.
Since they can be accessed through the keyboard, holding "the keyboard is faster than the mouse" as an argument is a strawman.
So, since you didn't like the silly accusations I did about your pet project, you won't substantiate the silly accusations you made about mine.
Notice the pattern?
I said:
"I won't answer to generic anti-GUI rants. I will answer to any criticism as soon as it is applied to KDE."
Tom said:
"Why? Isn't KDE a GUI? "
If all generic anti-GUI rants applied to all GUIs, then there would be no point on arguing, since the only way to "fix" them would be making them non-GUIs.
So, assuming that the generic anti-GUI rants don't apply to all GUIs, I'll wait for those that apply to the GUI we are talking about.
As per your specific bug:
On what terminal emulator did you find that bug, in Konsole or in Kvt? I can't reproduce it on Konsole.
As per the definition of better: KDEHelp is better than man+less because it works with more documentation formats, and provides the extra feature of hyperlinks. No fiat to be seen.
If you believe man+less (or rather man+more, you are a traditional guy) is better, tell me why and you may convince me.
I don't understand what you are asking.
HERE is a path specification, it can be anything.
But hey, it's 6:30 and I have been coding all night, so maybe I'm asleep.
It's relative. The HD speeding swap is usually a non-issue. A fast HD is 10K times slower, a slow one is 20K times slower, both take about forever :-)
Lynx doesn't understand the man:/ and info:/ URLs.