Yes. Unusably FAST! We covered this in quite a bit of detail on the Slashdot of old. The summary is quite good with it's description: 2.6 kernel "creams" the 2.4
If you're depressed and jobless passing a law that increases costs to consumers is like pouring petrol onto a fire to get it to burn better. The reality is if you're trying to help start a fire then the petrol needs to be added before the fire has been lit. The USA still has industries and is currently not in a depression. The passage of the same act in a healthy environment can aid keeping jobs available.
Tariffs only make sense if the Chinese government is subsidizing their solar panel manufacturing
They are. By allowing the environment to be screwed up and treating their workers like replaceable tools they have an effective subsidy over USA manufacturers. You can use cute words like "efficient" to describe it as much as you want but the reality is that the USA holds itself to certain standards and by not imposing tariffs on goods not imported to those standards the government policies effectively drive production offshore.
The only question is: Why are you limiting this to solar panels? Maybe if we got back to paying for things what they are worth if they were built in then the USA wouldn't be what it is now... a service industry.
Are you splitting hairs between "invent" and "defined something that didn't exist prior" on something intangible? It's not just the title of this article that is stupid...
If you imagine that JS "performs pretty damn well", well, you have quite an imagination.
On a raw computational level just as an example Node.JS performs slightly faster than Objective C on the very first google result I found. Even if that's not true there's not a single source that has said there's some kind of calamity in performance that would turn a 4GHz processor into a 500MHz processor as the OP postulated.
Fact is, if I'm doing a physics simulation that could take months to complete I'd be more likely to agree with you. But we're not. We're talking about end users noticing a slowdown in the fact of a perceived lack of benefit of the design choices of software. The bloat just isn't there, and if it were it sure as fuck isn't anything like what the OP said.
No NVIDIA aren't doing anything of the sort. I said: "suggesting... do what exactly?... Don't sell us the card if we can't pass a multi choice quiz on gaming culture?"
Which implies facetiously that they said nothing other than putting systems in place to prevent sales to non gamers. Limiting 2 per customer also didn't come from the original announcement.
And some people wonder why I don't take everything doctors tell me as 'word of God'
And we'll continue to do so. You're comparing someone's knowledge of some completely unrelated skill to something they spent years honing at medical school. I'm a safety systems engineer. The fact I haven't a clue how to knit a sweater and have no intention of ever putting any effort into learning how to knit a sweater doesn't make me a worse engineer as a result.
We still can't get color management right with the newest UHD HDR displays. I'd have to pay a few hundred bucks to get a technician to come out with a colorimeter and calibrate the display properly to get the benefit of 12 bit HEVC or Dolby Vision.
You have to do nothing of the sort. The display primaries don't tend to drift over time and are done in the factory. The only reason for calibrating a display is if you need to use a non-default curve, or want to be absolutely positive for perfect colour neutrality with respect to brightness, something which is not even remotely relevant unless you're reading an X-ray chart.
Hell, Wayland is supposed to be the new shiny to replace X11, and it can't do color managementat all.
And? Linux has always sucked even more so than Windows at colour management. Linux has been retarded in this regard in both the dictionary definition and the insulting sense of the word. That doesn't mean we aren't able to handle colour management just fine, e.g. Firefox has no problem displaying accurate colours even on Wayland, because not every problem needs to be handled by an OS.
Have you seen a billboard recently? Or a magazine, newspaper, or any other printed media?
Yeah I routinely print my photos at 150ppi and black and white because newspapers are awesome. Have you seen my desk recently? No reason for asking, other than it's just about as relevant as you examples. When you start looking at your TV from 35m away through the rain then let's talk about comparing it to a billboard.
There is more than enough variance from one production run to the next within the same make/model that specialized equipment and training is needed to actually achieve that quality on an individual display.
That just simply isn't true. Any wide gamut monitor will ship from the factor with an delta-E measurement across the entire range of between 2-3. This is a range where humans can only tell the difference through careful side by side comparison of colours. My current monitor is now 12 years old, when I do a factory reset the spectrometer measure an average delta-e error of 3.2, most of which is due to the yellowing of the plastic across the front of the display. From the factory it averaged 1.3, after calibration it came in at 0.2 and... looked exactly the same as it did before. The only reason I calibrate at all is for white balance matching.
This is even less important for technologies like OLED or QLED which have such well defined primaries determined by their chemistry that factory calibration for colour isn't needed at all, just a brightness characterisation curve.
Actually what NVIDIA asked was: Für NVIDIA stehen Gamer an erster Stelle. Sämtliche Aktivitäten rund um unsere GeForce-Produktreihe sind auf unsere Hauptzielgruppe ausgerichtet. Um den GeForce-Gamern auch in der aktuellen Situation weiterhin eine gute Verfügbarkeit von GeForce-Grafikkarten zu gewährleisten, empfehlen wir unseren Handelspartnern, entsprechende Vorkehrungen zu treffen, um den Bedarf der Gamer wie gewohnt abzudecken.“
They are asking for retailers to put in place "specific arrangements" to ensure cards remain available to their core audience, gamers. Reading anything other than that into it is nothing more than misrepresenting translations. i.e. They want retailers to preference gamers over other perfectly legitimate customers.
Why would I. You just completely ignored what I said and then used an example that makes no sense. You can be direct and to the point without hurting feelings too, and it's even easier to simply not come across like an asshat while doing so.
Company A's insecure chip is 10% faster. Company A's secure chip is 7% faster.
Company A didn't need that 3% did they?
Humans aren't single specification purchasers. They aren't sensitive exclusively to price. Being 7% faster than Company B's alternative doesn't necessarily equate to 100% of the sales going to Company A.
Linus always tells it like it is, which you can either view as professional or not.
One has nothing to do with the other. Linux tells it like it is in an unprofessional way. You can also do it professionally without in any way diminishing the value of the message from an engineering perspective.
I very much doubt he's going to do anything of the sort.
Of course he won't. The reply was simply calling out the OP's absurd comment.
Yes, that is bloat. You've just lowered your expectations
Everything about that statement is wrong. It isn't bloat, and the reason it isn't bloat is because I have raised my expectations of what I expect my browser to do.
what they actually do is so simple that you should be able to have 1000 tabs open with no meaningful load since you the human are only interacting with a small number of them at any given time.
So you don't know how the modern internet works. That doesn't make browsers any more bloated. Actually sorry, that was rash I take it back. You don't know how computers on the whole work. If you're expecting only the thing you're currently interacting with to do anything then the entire system may as well come grinding to a halt. Shit man my wristwatch wouldn't even work if it was required to keep time only while I'm looking at it.
For example, look at using JS to parse a DOM where everything is not just serialized to text, but wrapped in a markup-based protocol (often multiple layers deep). Compare that to using optimized assembly
Yes let's compare portable interpreted code that is simple and actually performs pretty damn well to your optimised assembly. While you're painfully optimising it to get it working we've already served our first 2000 users. Want to add a feature? hahahaha. Look I still code in assembly I don't miss it. There's a time and place for it, but the reality is that just because code doesn't compile down to a single perfect instruction doesn't make it bloat.
Bloat is defined as "excessive". For something to be excessive the reason for it's size (or performance) needs to not exist. For everything you have mentioned there are very good reasons for the abstraction or for the feature set (background tasks) and the only thing bloated here is your expectation that a user could do anything meaningful with 1000 tabs open, and that this is in any way related to the original premise: That people need a 4GHz computer because of bloat.
They don't. And even with your "examples" of bloat none of what you said actually results in any meaningful performance impact to the user what so ever. We have 4GHz machines because we work with and manipulate data that requires 4GHz machines, not because you can magically do it 20x faster.
You're still using them constantly, for weeks or months at a time...
So what you're saying is that it's a card that is far more likely to be reliable having a somewhat constant temperature profile without the thermal load cycling that comes from playing games off and on?
As much as I hate the idea of some criptominer causing a price rise that would affect me buying my gaming card, let me just say Screw you NVIDIA. You have NO say in what we use your GPU for and neither does the shop owners who you're suggesting... do what exactly?... Don't sell us the card if we can't pass a multi choice quiz on gaming culture?
What's that suggestion? Create a custom production run while being unable to fill demand for existing customers and then jeopardise logistics and shelf space all for a short term boom in interest?
Those few cents are worth nothing compared to the cost of your suggestion.
to get a small performance boost that they didn't need.
So since when does a CPU company compete on anything other than performance of that CPU? Or are you suggesting we all buy Intel CPU's because we love the IME?:-)
Yeah, Ford the South African car company. What the hell are you talking about, no one cares where the factories are, the comments are in the context of the traditional locations.
TIFF is a container format, not an image storage format. There's big difference in scope between PNG and TIFF. The defining a container is what makes TIFF so messy, but it is also what makes it far more useful than PNG. It has far more flexibility and PNG can't replace it in all cases. Classic point: You can't even save a 32bpp file in PNG as it tops out at 16bpp.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes. Unusably FAST! We covered this in quite a bit of detail on the Slashdot of old. The summary is quite good with it's description: 2.6 kernel "creams" the 2.4
Indeed, but think of why.
If you're depressed and jobless passing a law that increases costs to consumers is like pouring petrol onto a fire to get it to burn better. The reality is if you're trying to help start a fire then the petrol needs to be added before the fire has been lit. The USA still has industries and is currently not in a depression. The passage of the same act in a healthy environment can aid keeping jobs available.
Like the fire, timing is everything.
Tariffs only make sense if the Chinese government is subsidizing their solar panel manufacturing
They are. By allowing the environment to be screwed up and treating their workers like replaceable tools they have an effective subsidy over USA manufacturers. You can use cute words like "efficient" to describe it as much as you want but the reality is that the USA holds itself to certain standards and by not imposing tariffs on goods not imported to those standards the government policies effectively drive production offshore.
The only question is: Why are you limiting this to solar panels? Maybe if we got back to paying for things what they are worth if they were built in then the USA wouldn't be what it is now... a service industry.
Are you splitting hairs between "invent" and "defined something that didn't exist prior" on something intangible? It's not just the title of this article that is stupid...
If you imagine that JS "performs pretty damn well", well, you have quite an imagination.
On a raw computational level just as an example Node.JS performs slightly faster than Objective C on the very first google result I found. Even if that's not true there's not a single source that has said there's some kind of calamity in performance that would turn a 4GHz processor into a 500MHz processor as the OP postulated.
Fact is, if I'm doing a physics simulation that could take months to complete I'd be more likely to agree with you. But we're not. We're talking about end users noticing a slowdown in the fact of a perceived lack of benefit of the design choices of software. The bloat just isn't there, and if it were it sure as fuck isn't anything like what the OP said.
No NVIDIA aren't doing anything of the sort. I said: "suggesting ... do what exactly? ... Don't sell us the card if we can't pass a multi choice quiz on gaming culture?"
Which implies facetiously that they said nothing other than putting systems in place to prevent sales to non gamers. Limiting 2 per customer also didn't come from the original announcement.
And some people wonder why I don't take everything doctors tell me as 'word of God'
And we'll continue to do so. You're comparing someone's knowledge of some completely unrelated skill to something they spent years honing at medical school. I'm a safety systems engineer. The fact I haven't a clue how to knit a sweater and have no intention of ever putting any effort into learning how to knit a sweater doesn't make me a worse engineer as a result.
We still can't get color management right with the newest UHD HDR displays. I'd have to pay a few hundred bucks to get a technician to come out with a colorimeter and calibrate the display properly to get the benefit of 12 bit HEVC or Dolby Vision.
You have to do nothing of the sort. The display primaries don't tend to drift over time and are done in the factory. The only reason for calibrating a display is if you need to use a non-default curve, or want to be absolutely positive for perfect colour neutrality with respect to brightness, something which is not even remotely relevant unless you're reading an X-ray chart.
Hell, Wayland is supposed to be the new shiny to replace X11, and it can't do color managementat all.
And? Linux has always sucked even more so than Windows at colour management. Linux has been retarded in this regard in both the dictionary definition and the insulting sense of the word. That doesn't mean we aren't able to handle colour management just fine, e.g. Firefox has no problem displaying accurate colours even on Wayland, because not every problem needs to be handled by an OS.
Have you seen a billboard recently? Or a magazine, newspaper, or any other printed media?
Yeah I routinely print my photos at 150ppi and black and white because newspapers are awesome. Have you seen my desk recently? No reason for asking, other than it's just about as relevant as you examples. When you start looking at your TV from 35m away through the rain then let's talk about comparing it to a billboard.
There is more than enough variance from one production run to the next within the same make/model that specialized equipment and training is needed to actually achieve that quality on an individual display.
That just simply isn't true. Any wide gamut monitor will ship from the factor with an delta-E measurement across the entire range of between 2-3. This is a range where humans can only tell the difference through careful side by side comparison of colours. My current monitor is now 12 years old, when I do a factory reset the spectrometer measure an average delta-e error of 3.2, most of which is due to the yellowing of the plastic across the front of the display. From the factory it averaged 1.3, after calibration it came in at 0.2 and ... looked exactly the same as it did before. The only reason I calibrate at all is for white balance matching.
This is even less important for technologies like OLED or QLED which have such well defined primaries determined by their chemistry that factory calibration for colour isn't needed at all, just a brightness characterisation curve.
Actually what NVIDIA asked was:
Für NVIDIA stehen Gamer an erster Stelle. Sämtliche Aktivitäten rund um unsere GeForce-Produktreihe sind auf unsere Hauptzielgruppe ausgerichtet. Um den GeForce-Gamern auch in der aktuellen Situation weiterhin eine gute Verfügbarkeit von GeForce-Grafikkarten zu gewährleisten, empfehlen wir unseren Handelspartnern, entsprechende Vorkehrungen zu treffen, um den Bedarf der Gamer wie gewohnt abzudecken.“
They are asking for retailers to put in place "specific arrangements" to ensure cards remain available to their core audience, gamers. Reading anything other than that into it is nothing more than misrepresenting translations. i.e. They want retailers to preference gamers over other perfectly legitimate customers.
That had nothing to do with the sale of the hardware and just some bullshit EULA statement in a driver download.
Its basically akin to trying to fight ticket scalping.
No it's not. These people are actually using the product for the intended purpose: Embarrassingly parallel computational tasks.
Tell that to Challenger.
Why would I. You just completely ignored what I said and then used an example that makes no sense. You can be direct and to the point without hurting feelings too, and it's even easier to simply not come across like an asshat while doing so.
Likely much less than what goes wrong when left up to a bunch of lowly paid doctors and administration assistants.
Company A's insecure chip is 10% faster.
Company A's secure chip is 7% faster.
Company A didn't need that 3% did they?
Humans aren't single specification purchasers. They aren't sensitive exclusively to price. Being 7% faster than Company B's alternative doesn't necessarily equate to 100% of the sales going to Company A.
Linus always tells it like it is, which you can either view as professional or not.
One has nothing to do with the other. Linux tells it like it is in an unprofessional way. You can also do it professionally without in any way diminishing the value of the message from an engineering perspective.
I very much doubt he's going to do anything of the sort.
Of course he won't. The reply was simply calling out the OP's absurd comment.
Yes, that is bloat. You've just lowered your expectations
Everything about that statement is wrong. It isn't bloat, and the reason it isn't bloat is because I have raised my expectations of what I expect my browser to do.
what they actually do is so simple that you should be able to have 1000 tabs open with no meaningful load since you the human are only interacting with a small number of them at any given time.
So you don't know how the modern internet works. That doesn't make browsers any more bloated. Actually sorry, that was rash I take it back. You don't know how computers on the whole work. If you're expecting only the thing you're currently interacting with to do anything then the entire system may as well come grinding to a halt. Shit man my wristwatch wouldn't even work if it was required to keep time only while I'm looking at it.
For example, look at using JS to parse a DOM where everything is not just serialized to text, but wrapped in a markup-based protocol (often multiple layers deep). Compare that to using optimized assembly
Yes let's compare portable interpreted code that is simple and actually performs pretty damn well to your optimised assembly. While you're painfully optimising it to get it working we've already served our first 2000 users. Want to add a feature? hahahaha. Look I still code in assembly I don't miss it. There's a time and place for it, but the reality is that just because code doesn't compile down to a single perfect instruction doesn't make it bloat.
Bloat is defined as "excessive". For something to be excessive the reason for it's size (or performance) needs to not exist. For everything you have mentioned there are very good reasons for the abstraction or for the feature set (background tasks) and the only thing bloated here is your expectation that a user could do anything meaningful with 1000 tabs open, and that this is in any way related to the original premise: That people need a 4GHz computer because of bloat.
They don't. And even with your "examples" of bloat none of what you said actually results in any meaningful performance impact to the user what so ever. We have 4GHz machines because we work with and manipulate data that requires 4GHz machines, not because you can magically do it 20x faster.
You're still using them constantly, for weeks or months at a time...
So what you're saying is that it's a card that is far more likely to be reliable having a somewhat constant temperature profile without the thermal load cycling that comes from playing games off and on?
Sign me up.
As much as I hate the idea of some criptominer causing a price rise that would affect me buying my gaming card, let me just say Screw you NVIDIA. You have NO say in what we use your GPU for and neither does the shop owners who you're suggesting ... do what exactly? ... Don't sell us the card if we can't pass a multi choice quiz on gaming culture?
What's that suggestion? Create a custom production run while being unable to fill demand for existing customers and then jeopardise logistics and shelf space all for a short term boom in interest?
Those few cents are worth nothing compared to the cost of your suggestion.
to get a small performance boost that they didn't need.
So since when does a CPU company compete on anything other than performance of that CPU? Or are you suggesting we all buy Intel CPU's because we love the IME? :-)
Nothing I mentioned even comes close to workstation class territory.
You're probably the reason pornhub is so slow lately.
I'll take your word for it.
Just because one company isn't professional doesn't vindicate the other.
Yeah, Ford the South African car company. What the hell are you talking about, no one cares where the factories are, the comments are in the context of the traditional locations.
TIFF is a container format, not an image storage format. There's big difference in scope between PNG and TIFF. The defining a container is what makes TIFF so messy, but it is also what makes it far more useful than PNG. It has far more flexibility and PNG can't replace it in all cases. Classic point: You can't even save a 32bpp file in PNG as it tops out at 16bpp.