You want me to reverse-engineer Apple's playlist file format? Implement a Linux installer for the iPod shuffle? What research are you talking about?
iTunes installs music on the shuffle by mounting it as a flash drive and copying the files to the Fnn folders. You can watch it happen by opening a terminal and watching what it does. It mounts the shuffle, then copies the files in, then unmounts it.
Have you done that, or are you just taking Apple's word that it requires iTunes? Do some research yourself.
If you can't do the same thing, then that's because Apple has deliberately locked you out, not because the Shuffle's generic MP3 player and flash chipset doesn't have that ability.
this big BS fest where you claim to be privy to the origins of a device [...]
Dude, nothing I've posted is or implies any private or personal knowledge of Apple's development projects. Plus, the "Gray Whale" has been on the market for years, I have no idea how many people have one... but it's a widely available mass-producted device so thousands is utterly conservative.
If this is what counts as "privy knowledge" I better not spill the beans on "fire" or "the wheel" before I patent them.
And please, it's not my player, it's not my idea, I'm not trying to take credit for anything here. I'm trying to give credit to the unsung genius at Magic Star who came up with it.
Huh? Did you watch Jobs' address in 2004? The high end was 256M and above, he must have used the figure a dozen times.
My point about needing iTunes' shuffle mode is that in order for 512MB to not be unacceptable, you need a way to effortlessly pick 512MB of music.
I've already pointed out that I was already using iTunes Party Shuffle to do that with my Magic Star device.
If your flash player is an iPod shuffle, it takes no clicks and no drags.
Actually, it takes more work. It's only one click (Autofill), but since iTunes mounts and unmounts the shuffle in the foreground instead of the background like the Finder, loading the shuffle is less convenient than loading a "Flash Disk" player.
you needed an iTunes jukebox with the shuffle feature (this isn't as obvious as you think)
I'm no genius, and I was using iTunes with the Party Shuffle to load up my flash player long before the Shuffle was announced. It's not rocket science, honest.
Did Creative have a 512MB Muvo in Jan, '04, for $100?
Um, the price I suggested for the 2004 timeframe was $150, not $100. They could have hit that easily, even with 512M, and with the 256M that Steve kept going on about it would have been a snap.
Why do you think the 'Magic Star' player didn't take off, if it was so good?
Two reasons. First, it's dorky looking. Second, and more important, it didn't have the Apple name on it. This kind of thing happens all the time. Nobody wanted multitasking in personal computers until Microsoft "invented" it. Nobody wanted canned or bottled coffee until Starbucks "invented" it. Getting a product launched is expensive, and it sometimes takes a big name as well as a lot of money to get a product off the ground: Maxwell House had a bottled coffee product before Starbucks that I personally think was better, and they certainly have the money to push it... but it didn't have the Starbucks name.
Do you really think Apple had all those pieces in 2003 (and hence a finished product ready for MWSF '04)?
Obviously not, they weren't looking at the low end flash players that early. If they had been, they could have done it. Once they became aware of the product, they did it...
I didn't say that Apple should have made an iPod shuffle in 2002. I said that this device was made in 2002, and that Apple should have been able to do it one better by January 2004.
your player was high-end for [January 2004]
My player cost $69 in 2003. That's not "high end". That's cheaper than the shuffle is *now*,
The 512MB shuffle is only usable because of iTunes and the shuffle mix feature.
512M holds 8 hours of music. That's a bigger playlist than any Clear Channel radio station has, and you can refill it every night.
OK, maybe if you're listening to your pocket MP3 player all day, then 512M is cramped. If you work in an office or other environment where you can't listen to earphones, or you have a computer to hold your playlist, then you're only going to be listening to your MP3 player an hour or two at a time. Something that holds two hours of music is adequate if you can refill it easily.
If your flash player operates in disk mode, it takes two drags and two clicks to refill it with a new random set of songs.
you claim they could have and should have released in 2002
I didn't say that. Stop making things up.
What I said was that Magic Star made it with 128M in 2002, and sold it for under $100. If they could make it with 128M and sell it for under $100 three years ago, then just the difference in flash memory prices would have let you make a 512M model for under $100 by 2004.
The other differences between the units are software. The marginal cost of software is $0.00.
Apple's margin on the shuffle is 40%. So they could have made it for under $100, sold it for around $150, and you're telling me that the market wasn't ready for a $150 flash player from Apple in 2004? Hell, in early January 2005 people were playing what-if games about the idea of a $150 flash player from Apple.
I've never seen the Disney movies to which you refer
Ah. Well. Seems a bit presumptuous to talk about how screen actors aren't much as voice actors when you haven't seen so many of the movies in which they display their talents.:)
That's nice, but you didn't answer my question. How do you feel about Jim Cummings' version of the Genie? I think he did a really good job of following Robin Williams' lead, and I didn't have any difficulty differentiating the character from, say, Darkwing Duck. What do you think?
I mean, you can't tell me Robin Williams is evil! He plays good guys! Gilbert Godfreid, maybe, but not Robin!
Not to take away from the extreme coolness of this, since it is cool, but it's not nanotechnology. It's built using microelectronic fabrication techniques. We're a long way from nanofabrication yet.
Well, shit. If you get to pick whichever year you want... You're livid last year, you bought your mp3 player two years ago, and you had your idea--the part I was directly replying to, in the part above, 3 years ago.
No, stupid. The product came out in 2002, I bought one in 2003, Steve Jobs did his "we hate flash players" dance in 2004, and then the shuttle came out in 2005.
Oh, now that would be interesting. Custom OSX themes for OEMs. Something shiny and "bling bling" for Sony, OS/2-style corporate for IBM, Platinum for Toshiba, Luna theme for Dell...
Sure, the Super Shuffle is more than a clone, it's an outright copy... down to the advertising materials. But then, if the design isn't patented (and apparently the Shuffle isn't) you can get pretty damn close with a clone. Back in the heyday of the IBM clone business, one of the clone shops operating in Houston was called "UBM".:)
There's something evil and rude about being a troll.
What exactly is it that's pissing you off, man? I report what really happens, and you accuse me of lying, call me names, and generally make a big stink about the idea that tight iTunes integration might not be a killer feature... that someone might actually prefer an MP3 player that operates at "arms length" from iTunes.
How do you know that the Gray Whale and the iPod shuffle have the same frame and powertrain?
I doubt it's using the exact same parts all the way through, and I don't have my Gray Whale any more: after my daughter ripped the USB port off it the third time I couldn't fix it again. But... according to the guy who disassembled the Shuffle, it's using a standard MP3 player chip and flash memory device, and it's using the same controls as the Gray Whale, and its features and functionality are a closer match to the Gray Whale than either are to any other MP3 player on the market when I bought it.
You want to reach back nearly 30 years? I suspect that you might be a dipshit.
No, just an old fogey who really enjoyed programming on a Bell and Howell Black Apple back in the day.
What are you upset about? Is there something evil and rude about OEMing stuff? I think it's a smart move, myself, and I wish Apple did it more. I'd really like a Power-PC equipped Thinkpad running OS X, for example... I hate the OS on my Thinkpad, but I can't stand the PowerBook and iBook hardware.
Slashdot Mirror
You want me to reverse-engineer Apple's playlist file format? Implement a Linux installer for the iPod shuffle? What research are you talking about?
iTunes installs music on the shuffle by mounting it as a flash drive and copying the files to the Fnn folders. You can watch it happen by opening a terminal and watching what it does. It mounts the shuffle, then copies the files in, then unmounts it.
Have you done that, or are you just taking Apple's word that it requires iTunes? Do some research yourself.
If you can't do the same thing, then that's because Apple has deliberately locked you out, not because the Shuffle's generic MP3 player and flash chipset doesn't have that ability.
this big BS fest where you claim to be privy to the origins of a device [...]
Dude, nothing I've posted is or implies any private or personal knowledge of Apple's development projects. Plus, the "Gray Whale" has been on the market for years, I have no idea how many people have one... but it's a widely available mass-producted device so thousands is utterly conservative.
If this is what counts as "privy knowledge" I better not spill the beans on "fire" or "the wheel" before I patent them.
your player ... your player ... your idea ...
And please, it's not my player, it's not my idea, I'm not trying to take credit for anything here. I'm trying to give credit to the unsung genius at Magic Star who came up with it.
128MB was 'high end'.
Huh? Did you watch Jobs' address in 2004? The high end was 256M and above, he must have used the figure a dozen times.
My point about needing iTunes' shuffle mode is that in order for 512MB to not be unacceptable, you need a way to effortlessly pick 512MB of music.
I've already pointed out that I was already using iTunes Party Shuffle to do that with my Magic Star device.
If your flash player is an iPod shuffle, it takes no clicks and no drags.
Actually, it takes more work. It's only one click (Autofill), but since iTunes mounts and unmounts the shuffle in the foreground instead of the background like the Finder, loading the shuffle is less convenient than loading a "Flash Disk" player.
you needed an iTunes jukebox with the shuffle feature (this isn't as obvious as you think)
I'm no genius, and I was using iTunes with the Party Shuffle to load up my flash player long before the Shuffle was announced. It's not rocket science, honest.
Did Creative have a 512MB Muvo in Jan, '04, for $100?
Um, the price I suggested for the 2004 timeframe was $150, not $100. They could have hit that easily, even with 512M, and with the 256M that Steve kept going on about it would have been a snap.
Why do you think the 'Magic Star' player didn't take off, if it was so good?
Two reasons. First, it's dorky looking. Second, and more important, it didn't have the Apple name on it. This kind of thing happens all the time. Nobody wanted multitasking in personal computers until Microsoft "invented" it. Nobody wanted canned or bottled coffee until Starbucks "invented" it. Getting a product launched is expensive, and it sometimes takes a big name as well as a lot of money to get a product off the ground: Maxwell House had a bottled coffee product before Starbucks that I personally think was better, and they certainly have the money to push it... but it didn't have the Starbucks name.
Do you really think Apple had all those pieces in 2003 (and hence a finished product ready for MWSF '04)?
Obviously not, they weren't looking at the low end flash players that early. If they had been, they could have done it. Once they became aware of the product, they did it...
I didn't say that Apple should have made an iPod shuffle in 2002. I said that this device was made in 2002, and that Apple should have been able to do it one better by January 2004.
your player was high-end for [January 2004]
My player cost $69 in 2003. That's not "high end". That's cheaper than the shuffle is *now*,
The 512MB shuffle is only usable because of iTunes and the shuffle mix feature.
512M holds 8 hours of music. That's a bigger playlist than any Clear Channel radio station has, and you can refill it every night.
OK, maybe if you're listening to your pocket MP3 player all day, then 512M is cramped. If you work in an office or other environment where you can't listen to earphones, or you have a computer to hold your playlist, then you're only going to be listening to your MP3 player an hour or two at a time. Something that holds two hours of music is adequate if you can refill it easily.
If your flash player operates in disk mode, it takes two drags and two clicks to refill it with a new random set of songs.
you claim they could have and should have released in 2002
I didn't say that. Stop making things up.
What I said was that Magic Star made it with 128M in 2002, and sold it for under $100. If they could make it with 128M and sell it for under $100 three years ago, then just the difference in flash memory prices would have let you make a 512M model for under $100 by 2004.
The other differences between the units are software. The marginal cost of software is $0.00.
Apple's margin on the shuffle is 40%. So they could have made it for under $100, sold it for around $150, and you're telling me that the market wasn't ready for a $150 flash player from Apple in 2004? Hell, in early January 2005 people were playing what-if games about the idea of a $150 flash player from Apple.
I've never seen the Disney movies to which you refer
:)
Ah. Well. Seems a bit presumptuous to talk about how screen actors aren't much as voice actors when you haven't seen so many of the movies in which they display their talents.
Waves
Hi, Jay! Long time no see!
Walt Disney is Evil!
That's nice, but you didn't answer my question. How do you feel about Jim Cummings' version of the Genie? I think he did a really good job of following Robin Williams' lead, and I didn't have any difficulty differentiating the character from, say, Darkwing Duck. What do you think?
I mean, you can't tell me Robin Williams is evil! He plays good guys! Gilbert Godfreid, maybe, but not Robin!
No patent notice on the Shuffle anywhere I can see. I could be misreading something.
"iPod"
"Designed by Apple in California"
"Made in China Serial No.: FEEDFACEC0EDBABE"
"512 MB"
"FCC EMC No. 2037"
"CE Model No. A1112"
And in the lanyard cap: "Singapore".
It doesn't look like it's transferring between two super-shuffles to me.
All cats are gray in your pocket.
Not to take away from the extreme coolness of this, since it is cool, but it's not nanotechnology. It's built using microelectronic fabrication techniques. We're a long way from nanofabrication yet.
Don't forget, now it's Lenovo who owns the Thinkpad factories.
Lenovo Thinkbook? lBook?
When I see a favorite actor doing animation work, I'm usually disappointed.
So who's your favorite Genie, Robin Williams or Jim Cummings? Me, I think they're both great.
That means Dick Van Dyke is a Cool Friend Of Newtek!
Are they still doing that?
Well, shit. If you get to pick whichever year you want... You're livid last year, you bought your mp3 player two years ago, and you had your idea--the part I was directly replying to, in the part above, 3 years ago.
No, stupid. The product came out in 2002, I bought one in 2003, Steve Jobs did his "we hate flash players" dance in 2004, and then the shuttle came out in 2005.
Now try and keep up.
How do they integrate the extra features without extra buttons?
Two sliders on the back.
Oh, now that would be interesting. Custom OSX themes for OEMs. Something shiny and "bling bling" for Sony, OS/2-style corporate for IBM, Platinum for Toshiba, Luna theme for Dell...
No, maybe that's going too far,
Sure, the Super Shuffle is more than a clone, it's an outright copy... down to the advertising materials. But then, if the design isn't patented (and apparently the Shuffle isn't) you can get pretty damn close with a clone. Back in the heyday of the IBM clone business, one of the clone shops operating in Houston was called "UBM". :)
Yah, that's a good point. The Super Shuffle isn't just a clone (like, say, the Compaq Deskpro was a clone of the IBM PC), it's a deliberate fake.
There's something evil and rude about being a troll.
What exactly is it that's pissing you off, man? I report what really happens, and you accuse me of lying, call me names, and generally make a big stink about the idea that tight iTunes integration might not be a killer feature... that someone might actually prefer an MP3 player that operates at "arms length" from iTunes.
It does nothing like that.
What's your Mac, a dual G5? It sure does on my Mini and my "Beige G4" (Beige G3 with a G4 ZIF) and the 1.25 GHz Xserve G4 at work.
[cute handle] ... considered buying one as an xmas gift for my brother-in-law... However, I discovered he already has one
*snort*
I looked at the eVest, but decided to go with Docker Mobile Pants instead. Unfortunately they seem to be off the market.
How do you know that the Gray Whale and the iPod shuffle have the same frame and powertrain?
I doubt it's using the exact same parts all the way through, and I don't have my Gray Whale any more: after my daughter ripped the USB port off it the third time I couldn't fix it again. But... according to the guy who disassembled the Shuffle, it's using a standard MP3 player chip and flash memory device, and it's using the same controls as the Gray Whale, and its features and functionality are a closer match to the Gray Whale than either are to any other MP3 player on the market when I bought it.
You want to reach back nearly 30 years? I suspect that you might be a dipshit.
No, just an old fogey who really enjoyed programming on a Bell and Howell Black Apple back in the day.
What are you upset about? Is there something evil and rude about OEMing stuff? I think it's a smart move, myself, and I wish Apple did it more. I'd really like a Power-PC equipped Thinkpad running OS X, for example... I hate the OS on my Thinkpad, but I can't stand the PowerBook and iBook hardware.