in the start of 90-x we have no real way - old economy stops, new picked up.
Nope, you're wrong. The reason the dot-bomb thing happened was that people believed there was a 'new economy'. Later they found out it was actually the same old economy with a fresh coat of paint.
Re:Our Parents are the evil fucks, not us
on
Generation Wrecked
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· Score: 2
Do the generation of our parents and grandparents, who have orchestrated the incessant advertising that conditions us into submissive little shoppers and consumers, often as unable to resist a shiny new object as we are unable to join a protest for a cause we are forbidden, by that very same conditioning, from feeling strongly about? You bet they do.
No, they don't. Just because you're dumb enough to realize that something that seems too good to be true is, in fact, too good to be true is no reason to blame the people selling it. Or do you respond to the penis enlargement spams too?
No, we don't. We've only looked in a couple places on the whole planet. It's like looking in one square mile of the Sahara for an oak tree, not finding one, and declaring that trees don't exist.
First of all, we don't see evolution going on around us.
Um, yes we do. All the time, in fact. Evolution is why we need new flu shots every year.
I'm just pointing out that there is no conclusive evidence for evolution
Evolution, defined as the change in allele frequencies over time, is a fact. It happens. All they are debating now is precisely how it happens.
The argument that evolution is a fact because evolution is a fact is a reasoning so badly flawed
See above. "Evolution" is a fact as much as "gravity" is a fact. The problem comes from peoplee not understanding what the word "evolution" really means, biologically speaking.
That's the central problem with attempting to divine evolution from the "fossil record"
Good thing we don't do that then. The fossil record is maybe the weakest evidence for evolutionary theories. If we didn't have a single fossil, evolutionary theories would still be the only reasonable way to explain DNA similarities between species, structural similarites, the results of selective breeding, etc.
Re: Evolution - What about Polystrate Fossils?
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Ready, Steady, Evolve
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· Score: 2
how do evolutionists explain the "polystrate" fossils and petrified trees found all over the world?
Looking at that site, it seems to be full of nitpicking about articles written for the popular press, castigating Drawin for proposing a theory that was not 100% correct from the get-go, and reprinting outright lies that have long been discredited.
If you want real facts instead of people trying to win the debate by shouting louder, try talk.origins archive.
Oh, please. To claim that it's a proven fact that evolution is the mechanism behind the existence of complex, or any, lifeforms is simply untrue.
I agree, but that's not what evolution means. Evolution means that species change over time. That's all. The theories try to explain how it happens.
Analogy time: Fact: Masses attract each other Theory: We actually live in a four-dimensional spacetime. Mass distorts spacetime and what looks like an attractive force is really just objects moving along straight lines in curved space.
Fact: Species change over time Theory: Pressures from the environment combined with random mutations cause change in genetic makeup over many generations.
I do not read the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita because the Bible claims to be truth and I believe what the Bible says.
Wow, that's great. Here, read this:
I, Yunzil, am the supreme being in all the universe, bow down and worship me, worm, or feel my wrath! And I'm telling you this is true, so you better believe it!
What? You don't believe me? But it says right there that you should.
My point, in case you missed it, is that you can't use the Bible as evidence of the Bible's validity. That's called circular reasoning and makes you look silly as well.:)
Also maybe some kind of MORE NEWS link that showed more headlines from the topic I am reading (such as Science and Technology) that listed more of todays stories that are not necessarily the top stories.
Actually, if you read up on the creationist's theory (vs the evolutionary theory), as far as I am concerned, the creationist theory does hold some water
The creationists don't *have* a theory. A theory has to have evidence, and it has to be refutable. Saying "God did it!" fails on both counts.
When you see a car sitting on the road you don't say. Hmm.. over Billions and Billions of years all the pieces formed in just the right combination to build that car! How much more complex are we.
Cars don't self-reproduce. Living things do.
If I say here is the evidence for evolution.. I'm dealing with science. If I say here is the evidence against evolution I'm an intolerant religious fanatic.
You don't have any evidence against evolution.
There are many things that point to a young earth. Meteoric dust on the moon,
The moondust myth has been debunked for decades. Here's an easy counter-example: If you walk along the beach, you only sink into the sand an inch or two, but the sand is much deeper than two inches.
the fact that THERE IS MOUNTAINS after BILLIONS of years of erosion.
G-d created the world 6000 years ago (actually 5,753 years to be exact, see a Hebrew Calendar [jewfaq.org]) and made it appear as if it existed 16+billion years ago.
The problem with that idea is that it means God is a liar and a deceiver.
Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the Earth's age.
True. But Archbishop Ussher went through the Bible, added up the ages of everyone in the Old Testament and eventually was able to triumphantly announce that the Earth was created at the stroke of noon on Sunday 23 October 4004 BC.:)
When we both have died, I will try and send you a message enscribed, "Well?"
You will only be able to try if you have an immortal soul, which is what you were trying to prove. You can't prove the existence of something by assuming it's existence.
Hypothesis: People have immortal souls Proof: a) Assume people have immortal souls b) QED
Doesn't work.
You are reading it.
Reading what? Slashdot? Slashdot is proof of God?;)
What more do you want than haven taken a ton of lashes while tied to a post in full view of crowds, hands and feet NAILED to a wooden post (have you ever taken a nail and pounded it into your foot? Not pleasant.), being stabbed in the gut with a spear while hanging there, worn a mockingly-gestured "crown" of thorns tearing into the flesh of your scalp, and finally dying?
You haven't shown that these things actually happened. Why do you believe they did? The Bible says so? How do you know the Bible is accurate?
Not trying to be nit-picky here but don't moons orbit thier planets in an elliptical pattern, with the planet being at one of the focuses?
Well, strictly speaking, planets and moons (and planets and suns) orbit around a common center of gravity. If the mass of one body is much large than the mass of the other, you get pretty close to an elliptical orbit, with the large mass at one focus.
It just depends on how accurate you want to be. For example, Jupiter is large enough that the center of mass of the Jupiter-Sun system is actually outside the photosphere of the Sun, but relative to the distance of Jupiter, that's not much.
One way astronomers look for extrasolar planets is to look for the star to 'wobble' as its planets orbit, so maybe there's a Little Green Astronmer out there somewhere who noticed that little yellow star in quadrant 57 wiggled approximately every 27.3 blurgons, meaning a large planet is orbiting.:)
"They Government has the option to hold you indefinitely without a lawyer"..those are hypotheticals that come into play very goddamn rarely in the real world.
Doesn't matter. If it happens once (and it has), that's too much
anything that'll help prevent another September 11th/save American lives I'm all for.
So then you'd be in favor of killing ever Muslim in the world? You'd be in favor of abolishing air travel? You'd be in favor of turning the US into a police state so the government can watch every move you make? You'd be in favor of building a huge wall around the US so that no one gets in or out?
Slashdot Mirror
in the start of 90-x we have no real way - old economy stops, new picked up.
Nope, you're wrong. The reason the dot-bomb thing happened was that people believed there was a 'new economy'. Later they found out it was actually the same old economy with a fresh coat of paint.
Do the generation of our parents and grandparents, who have orchestrated the incessant advertising that conditions us into submissive little shoppers and consumers, often as unable to resist a shiny new object as we are unable to join a protest for a cause we are forbidden, by that very same conditioning, from feeling strongly about? You bet they do.
No, they don't. Just because you're dumb enough to realize that something that seems too good to be true is, in fact, too good to be true is no reason to blame the people selling it. Or do you respond to the penis enlargement spams too?
For life to develop, cycles are very important. A cycle at around every "order of magnitude" is almost compulsory.
Do you have evidence for this? A cite?
we now know there isn't life on Mars
No, we don't. We've only looked in a couple places on the whole planet. It's like looking in one square mile of the Sahara for an oak tree, not finding one, and declaring that trees don't exist.
But then, that depends on what one considers reasonable, doesn't it?
You're right. By reasonable, I mean 'scientific'.
Talk.origins makes no pretense of being obective on the issue of evolution
Why do they have links to anti-evolution sites then?
the very purpose of the site is to serve as an altar for the evolutionist religion.
Evolution is not religion, it's science.
First of all, we don't see evolution going on around us.
Um, yes we do. All the time, in fact. Evolution is why we need new flu shots every year.
I'm just pointing out that there is no conclusive evidence for evolution
Evolution, defined as the change in allele frequencies over time, is a fact. It happens. All they are debating now is precisely how it happens.
The argument that evolution is a fact because evolution is a fact is a reasoning so badly flawed
See above. "Evolution" is a fact as much as "gravity" is a fact. The problem comes from peoplee not understanding what the word "evolution" really means, biologically speaking.
I agree, but what do you expect for something that claims to be the very Word of the creator of the universe
Something a little more clearly understandable.
God himself says "I am that I am"!
But then, so does Popeye.
That's the central problem with attempting to divine evolution from the "fossil record"
Good thing we don't do that then. The fossil record is maybe the weakest evidence for evolutionary theories. If we didn't have a single fossil, evolutionary theories would still be the only reasonable way to explain DNA similarities between species, structural similarites, the results of selective breeding, etc.
how do evolutionists explain the "polystrate" fossils and petrified trees found all over the world?
Read the ploystrate fossil FAQ
http://www.scienceagainstevolution.org/newsletters .htm
Looking at that site, it seems to be full of nitpicking about articles written for the popular press, castigating Drawin for proposing a theory that was not 100% correct from the get-go, and reprinting outright lies that have long been discredited.
If you want real facts instead of people trying to win the debate by shouting louder, try talk.origins archive.
Oh, please. To claim that it's a proven fact that evolution is the mechanism behind the existence of complex, or any, lifeforms is simply untrue.
I agree, but that's not what evolution means. Evolution means that species change over time. That's all. The theories try to explain how it happens.
Analogy time:
Fact: Masses attract each other
Theory: We actually live in a four-dimensional spacetime. Mass distorts spacetime and what looks like an attractive force is really just objects moving along straight lines in curved space.
Fact: Species change over time
Theory: Pressures from the environment combined with random mutations cause change in genetic makeup over many generations.
If it's a fact, then I'm sure you can provide at least one controlled experiment showing one species evolving into another species. You can't?
Actually, I can.
Observed instances of speciation FAQ
More Observed Speciation Events
Wow, that's great. Here, read this:
What? You don't believe me? But it says right there that you should.
My point, in case you missed it, is that you can't use the Bible as evidence of the Bible's validity. That's called circular reasoning and makes you look silly as well.
Also maybe some kind of MORE NEWS link that showed more headlines from the topic I am reading (such as Science and Technology) that listed more of todays stories that are not necessarily the top stories.
Just click on the "Sci/Tech" label?
Much slower speeds (atleast around here in Northern Virginia) are the same monthly price as an AOL account.
Um, I live in NoVA, and the price for "slow" DSL is still *way* more than I pay for my dialup.
I find this very disturbing, especially in light of the fact that IBM and Sun are supposed to be open soure allies.
Um. It's possible to support open source but still think that an open source application sucks.
Why do you care if they spy on you if you arn't doing anything wrong?
If I'm not doing anything wrong, why are they spying on me?
Violations of privacy only hurt people who something to hide.
So it would be OK by you if we put a closed-circuit camera in your house?
Actually, if you read up on the creationist's theory (vs the evolutionary theory), as far as I am concerned, the creationist theory does hold some water
The creationists don't *have* a theory. A theory has to have evidence, and it has to be refutable. Saying "God did it!" fails on both counts.
When you see a car sitting on the road you don't say. Hmm.. over Billions and Billions of years all the pieces formed in just the right combination to build that car! How much more complex are we.
Cars don't self-reproduce. Living things do.
If I say here is the evidence for evolution.. I'm dealing with science. If I say here is the evidence against evolution I'm an intolerant religious fanatic.
You don't have any evidence against evolution.
There are many things that point to a young earth. Meteoric dust on the moon,
The moondust myth has been debunked for decades. Here's an easy counter-example: If you walk along the beach, you only sink into the sand an inch or two, but the sand is much deeper than two inches.
the fact that THERE IS MOUNTAINS after BILLIONS of years of erosion.
Learn about plate tectonics.
The fossil record.
What about it?
G-d created the world 6000 years ago (actually 5,753 years to be exact, see a Hebrew Calendar [jewfaq.org]) and made it appear as if it existed 16+billion years ago.
The problem with that idea is that it means God is a liar and a deceiver.
Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the Earth's age.
:)
True. But Archbishop Ussher went through the Bible, added up the ages of everyone in the Old Testament and eventually was able to triumphantly announce that the Earth was created at the stroke of noon on Sunday 23 October 4004 BC.
When we both have died, I will try and send you a message enscribed, "Well?"
;)
You will only be able to try if you have an immortal soul, which is what you were trying to prove. You can't prove the existence of something by assuming it's existence.
Hypothesis: People have immortal souls
Proof:
a) Assume people have immortal souls
b) QED
Doesn't work.
You are reading it.
Reading what? Slashdot? Slashdot is proof of God?
What more do you want than haven taken a ton of lashes while tied to a post in full view of crowds, hands and feet NAILED to a wooden post (have you ever taken a nail and pounded it into your foot? Not pleasant.), being stabbed in the gut with a spear while hanging there, worn a mockingly-gestured "crown" of thorns tearing into the flesh of your scalp, and finally dying?
You haven't shown that these things actually happened. Why do you believe they did? The Bible says so? How do you know the Bible is accurate?
Not trying to be nit-picky here but don't moons orbit thier planets in an elliptical pattern, with the planet being at one of the focuses?
:)
Well, strictly speaking, planets and moons (and planets and suns) orbit around a common center of gravity. If the mass of one body is much large than the mass of the other, you get pretty close to an elliptical orbit, with the large mass at one focus.
It just depends on how accurate you want to be. For example, Jupiter is large enough that the center of mass of the Jupiter-Sun system is actually outside the photosphere of the Sun, but relative to the distance of Jupiter, that's not much.
One way astronomers look for extrasolar planets is to look for the star to 'wobble' as its planets orbit, so maybe there's a Little Green Astronmer out there somewhere who noticed that little yellow star in quadrant 57 wiggled approximately every 27.3 blurgons, meaning a large planet is orbiting.
"They Government has the option to hold you indefinitely without a lawyer"..those are hypotheticals that come into play very goddamn rarely in the real world.
Doesn't matter. If it happens once (and it has), that's too much
anything that'll help prevent another September 11th/save American lives I'm all for.
So then you'd be in favor of killing ever Muslim in the world? You'd be in favor of abolishing air travel? You'd be in favor of turning the US into a police state so the government can watch every move you make? You'd be in favor of building a huge wall around the US so that no one gets in or out?
Just asking.