I pin all the apps I use most frequently on my taskbar. This is 16 apps. If you're launching programs you use frequently from the start menu, you're doing it wrong. If I need to go into the start menu, it's to use an app I don't need frequently. The "All Apps" windows is better suited for this than the "All Programs" menu. First, launching an app from the All Apps menu is 2 clicks. This is on average 4 clicks to access the "All Programs" menu. Second All Apps is sortable. All Programs is sorted alphabetically by (most often) publisher name. All Programs is great at being small and compact, but this is to the detriment of being able to find an item in the list efficiently... which is kind of the whole point of its existence.
1. Set boot to desktop, turn off hotcorners. Easily accesible settings in the control panel.
2. Set defaul applications to desktop versions. Again, easily accesible in the control panel.
3. Here's where you can get creative. Either simply pin the "All Programs" folder to the task bar... that replicates the functionality of the start menu. If that's not exact enough for you, install a third party launcher that you prefer. You have the choice.
You missed his last sentence. At some point, MS is going to drop support for Win7
You missed the followind sentence of mine (well no you didn't since you quote it) but Windows 8.1 is configurable to work *exactly* like Windows 7. There is no indication Microsoft is taking this away from you, and with 8.1 the opposite is clearly true. I don't understand how this is any different than going to Linux and configuring it to work like Windows 7.
Really? Windows 8.1 gives you a start menu that has easy, uncluttered access to all your programs, as well as Control Panel, Computer, and various other shortcuts right there in easy-to-find locations?
Yes. All your programs are in the All Apps window... if you want to replicate the tree style menu, just pin the All Programs folder to the desktop. Control panel is accessible by right clicking the start button. Computer and various shortcuts are pre-pinned on the task bar.
And the fact that you personally don't mind the changes doesn't mean they aren't a major deal for many users.
I don't mind the changes but the fact is you can configure it to work just like Windows 7. If you're indignant about the changes, configure it to work like you want it. It's not hard at all... probably takes 10 minutes and you're set. There have been 3rd part options for a while and now there are first party options as well that get you back to the way you want it. If however you're indignant about having to configure your OS to work how you like, moving to Linux isn't going to make you any happier.
You can arrange your apps into small groups that are sized perfectly for you, and even resize the icons (sm med wide, large) so that they're comfortable for you. You can have n many groups labeled as you prefer, and zoom out so you only see the top level groups, then zoom in to the bite sized groups you created. Your other option is simply to pinn the All Programs folder as a toolbar on the taskbar. This replicates the functionality of the Start Menu circa Windows XP almost exactly.
I've listed in several posts now how the start screen improvs over the start menu in very concrete terms. It's not change for the sake of change, it's change to address some of (very serious) shortcomings of the start menu, chief among them customizability and presentation of information, including the display of the All Programs list. The start menu is very very bad at these things.
I find the alphabetically sorted list to be the preferable option.
How is that preferable if you don't know the name of the app? If you knew the name, you could just type the first few letters into search and get there faster. What if all you know if the date you installed it? Even more to the point, the top level folder is often then name of the publisher, not even the app you're looking for. How do you find an app if you don't know who published it? The best search strategy would be to expand every single folder until you come across it. Does that seriously sound like the preferable option next to just clicking "sort by..."?
What's wrong with a compact menu is that "compact" does not exactly express the problem of sorting and organizing every application and file on your computer. The start menu "All Programs" list has several glaring shortcomings including:
It's sorted alphabetically by publisher name. There is no indication that this is an ideal way to order a list of applications.
Every entry looks exactly the same. The same yellow folder icon is repeated over and over, adding nothing to the searchability of the list
This has lead to a plethora of publishers putting their applications and associated utilities at the top level, which clutters things especially becaue...
It's not easily customizable. To create folders and group things you have to enter a semi-hidden folder.... but wait there's actually two of them and it's not readily aparant which folder you need to go into from the start menu.
It's not sortable
The funniest part I think is that no one opposed to the Start Screen seem to recognize the above as actual short comings. Instead, they just point to the start screen and say "It's fullscreen I hate it" and fail to realize the start screen solves ALL of the above, making it demonstrably better in at least that regard.
I don't want to all this touch screen, corners garbage.
You can turn this off
I want to have Chrome open, and the App store open at the same time. I can't do that.
You can dock them side by side with the snap interface.
I want Netflix running down in the corner on top of everything else. How do I do that?
Run it in a browser or snap it next to the desktop. I do the latter all the time. My huge screen is perfect for this, and its especially nice because it frees up the desktop. The other nice app for this is calc, which is always running snapped on the side when I'm doing work.
You have a lot of rage. Take a deep breath, it's just an application launcher. Nothing you said about the start screen is even accurate. You are not forced to launch apps in the full-screen menu; you can do so in the side search pane, with pins on the task bar, shortcuts on the desktop, or a toolbar pinned to the taskbar. There are many options. You don't have to use touch, in fact the start screen is easily navigable with keyboard and mouse, especially if you learn the new shortcuts. Seriously, calm down. I'm worried about you.
it's full-screen and jerks you away from the desktop (therefore, it's highly intrusive)
Then you can launch apps without leaving the desktop using the search pane. It slides in from the side and does not cover the entire screen. If you don't know the name of the app you want to launch, the full screen "All Apps" windows is much more useful than the "All Programs" folder tree in the start menu, since its sortable and you can easily recognize application icons.
it doesn't display a large number of items well.
And the start menu cannot display a large number of items at all. At 1080p on a 23" display, the start screen in 8.1 can have at max 288 icons on one page. Start menu can only pin max 30 at any resolution, I believe. Within this range, you can set 4 different icon sizes, and group by type, name, usage... however you prefer. If you have a lot of groups you can get a list of the groups, then choose the group you're looking for. The start menu offers nothing even remotely comparable... all you get is a 1D list of pins in the start menu, which you are not able to group or customize at all.
Then you have the product you want and you're happy with it. Enjoy. Windows 8 can be easily configured to work the same exact way, now without any third party software in 8.1. Your use of bold and italic emphasis makes you seem very indignant about an issue which is at best, a minor issue of system configuration.
Whoosh. It's not "more typing" because it's the same amount of typing as Windows 7. Want to stick to the GUI? You're free to do so. You probably shouldn't be launching cmd though.
Spy Handler wanted a way to do what he did in Windows 7 start menu. I gave it to him. Don't want to type (if you're launching the command prompt though, this probably doesn't bother you) then just press the start button and click on "cmd". It's listed right there if you set it to open "All Apps" with desktop apps listed first. It's literally two clicks away (start -> cmd), wheras in Windows 7 it's 4 clicks (Start -> all programs -> applications -> cmd)
maybe he wants it for the stuff that is in start menu. access to control panel for one. you know how stupid it is to drop into metro to launch an app in desktop? pretty stupid. but even more stupid is dropping into metro to launch control panel from which you launch the actual desktop control panel that has the stuff you were looking for.
You don't have to do that at all. Want the control panel? Rigtht click on the start menu, it's right there. Want to launch an app? Press win+s and type the first few letters. Control panel can be launched this way, or you can make it even faster by launching the control panel item you want straight from the search pane. Try using it before commenting next time.
I do so every day. Win8 at hom, Win7 at work. Start screen has all my pinned apps, and I can display more than 30 at a time. It scales great with resolution. With the start menu, the more items on it, the further away your most used app is from the start button. How wonderful. I especially hate the "All Programs" list in the start menu. An alphabetical list of folders named after app publishers instead of actual applications, all with the same icon (why is it even there then?). And it's oh so customizable. You have to go into a semi-hidden directory to edit the folders, and then there's even two foldres to go into: the user folder and the global folder, which you need admin permissions to edit. Why do you need admin privledges to edit a user application menu?
Oh and the hodgepodge of functionality. I love how in the start menu the oft used "search box" is right next to the shut down function, which is right next to a tiny tiny arrow which opens up lock computer/sleep functionalty. Why is the shut off button so large, when I do this function at most once a day? And next to often used functions like search and lock? Great UI.
For me, the start screen is much more customizable, much more informative, and easier to use all around. If I want to launch an app and i'm on the desktop, I win+s to pull up the search bar and type the app name. If I don't know the app name, I open up the "All Apps" window and I sort and I can see all my installed apps at a glance instead of rooting through a tree of vaguely and uninformatively named folders.
Going back is not a breath of fresh air, it's suffocating.
This is not true at all. There are more keyboard shortcuts in Windows 8 than ever before. I get around fine 100% keyboard, you just have to learn the shortcuts. Even the start screen is navigable with the keyboard. For *every* touch or mouse function, there is a keyboard equivalent.
You press start and type "cmd". Typing on the start screen initiates a search. Alternatively press win+s to open the search panel, and type "cmd". Alternatively right click on the start menu and click run, then type cmd.
What exactly do you want the start menu back for? The start button can be configured to send you to the All Apps window, which takes you to a sortable list of all your apps. Much more useful than an alphabetical list of folders with identical icons, IMO. You can turn off hot corners. You can boot right to desktop. They've brought back unified search. You can even pull up the (not full screen) search pane directly from the desktop, and search for files and applications in a unified view.
What more exactly do you want? Yes, it's different, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that it's not better. What is so great about the start menu that you refuse nothing less than a line-for-line copy?
Slashdot Mirror
I pin all the apps I use most frequently on my taskbar. This is 16 apps. If you're launching programs you use frequently from the start menu, you're doing it wrong. If I need to go into the start menu, it's to use an app I don't need frequently. The "All Apps" windows is better suited for this than the "All Programs" menu. First, launching an app from the All Apps menu is 2 clicks. This is on average 4 clicks to access the "All Programs" menu. Second All Apps is sortable. All Programs is sorted alphabetically by (most often) publisher name. All Programs is great at being small and compact, but this is to the detriment of being able to find an item in the list efficiently... which is kind of the whole point of its existence.
1. Set boot to desktop, turn off hotcorners. Easily accesible settings in the control panel.
2. Set defaul applications to desktop versions. Again, easily accesible in the control panel.
3. Here's where you can get creative. Either simply pin the "All Programs" folder to the task bar... that replicates the functionality of the start menu. If that's not exact enough for you, install a third party launcher that you prefer. You have the choice.
Still works in Windows 8.1 Preview.
Keyboard shortcuts have always been the purview of power users. I assume I'm talking to many here right now. Need them? Learn them.
You missed his last sentence. At some point, MS is going to drop support for Win7
You missed the followind sentence of mine (well no you didn't since you quote it) but Windows 8.1 is configurable to work *exactly* like Windows 7. There is no indication Microsoft is taking this away from you, and with 8.1 the opposite is clearly true. I don't understand how this is any different than going to Linux and configuring it to work like Windows 7.
Really? Windows 8.1 gives you a start menu that has easy, uncluttered access to all your programs, as well as Control Panel, Computer, and various other shortcuts right there in easy-to-find locations?
Yes. All your programs are in the All Apps window... if you want to replicate the tree style menu, just pin the All Programs folder to the desktop. Control panel is accessible by right clicking the start button. Computer and various shortcuts are pre-pinned on the task bar.
And the fact that you personally don't mind the changes doesn't mean they aren't a major deal for many users.
I don't mind the changes but the fact is you can configure it to work just like Windows 7. If you're indignant about the changes, configure it to work like you want it. It's not hard at all... probably takes 10 minutes and you're set. There have been 3rd part options for a while and now there are first party options as well that get you back to the way you want it. If however you're indignant about having to configure your OS to work how you like, moving to Linux isn't going to make you any happier.
You can arrange your apps into small groups that are sized perfectly for you, and even resize the icons (sm med wide, large) so that they're comfortable for you. You can have n many groups labeled as you prefer, and zoom out so you only see the top level groups, then zoom in to the bite sized groups you created. Your other option is simply to pinn the All Programs folder as a toolbar on the taskbar. This replicates the functionality of the Start Menu circa Windows XP almost exactly.
I've listed in several posts now how the start screen improvs over the start menu in very concrete terms. It's not change for the sake of change, it's change to address some of (very serious) shortcomings of the start menu, chief among them customizability and presentation of information, including the display of the All Programs list. The start menu is very very bad at these things.
Yes, this worked in Windows 8 and again in 8.1.
I find the alphabetically sorted list to be the preferable option.
How is that preferable if you don't know the name of the app? If you knew the name, you could just type the first few letters into search and get there faster. What if all you know if the date you installed it? Even more to the point, the top level folder is often then name of the publisher, not even the app you're looking for. How do you find an app if you don't know who published it? The best search strategy would be to expand every single folder until you come across it. Does that seriously sound like the preferable option next to just clicking "sort by..."?
There are separate, esaily discoverable widgets to access search functionality. But the point is it's still there if you want it.
The funniest part I think is that no one opposed to the Start Screen seem to recognize the above as actual short comings. Instead, they just point to the start screen and say "It's fullscreen I hate it" and fail to realize the start screen solves ALL of the above, making it demonstrably better in at least that regard.
I don't want to all this touch screen, corners garbage.
You can turn this off
I want to have Chrome open, and the App store open at the same time. I can't do that.
You can dock them side by side with the snap interface.
I want Netflix running down in the corner on top of everything else. How do I do that?
Run it in a browser or snap it next to the desktop. I do the latter all the time. My huge screen is perfect for this, and its especially nice because it frees up the desktop. The other nice app for this is calc, which is always running snapped on the side when I'm doing work.
Can do the same thing in Windows 8.1: http://i.imgur.com/eJgwVTC.jpg
Have you even used the product you're bashing?
You have a lot of rage. Take a deep breath, it's just an application launcher. Nothing you said about the start screen is even accurate. You are not forced to launch apps in the full-screen menu; you can do so in the side search pane, with pins on the task bar, shortcuts on the desktop, or a toolbar pinned to the taskbar. There are many options. You don't have to use touch, in fact the start screen is easily navigable with keyboard and mouse, especially if you learn the new shortcuts. Seriously, calm down. I'm worried about you.
it's full-screen and jerks you away from the desktop (therefore, it's highly intrusive)
Then you can launch apps without leaving the desktop using the search pane. It slides in from the side and does not cover the entire screen. If you don't know the name of the app you want to launch, the full screen "All Apps" windows is much more useful than the "All Programs" folder tree in the start menu, since its sortable and you can easily recognize application icons.
it doesn't display a large number of items well.
And the start menu cannot display a large number of items at all. At 1080p on a 23" display, the start screen in 8.1 can have at max 288 icons on one page. Start menu can only pin max 30 at any resolution, I believe. Within this range, you can set 4 different icon sizes, and group by type, name, usage... however you prefer. If you have a lot of groups you can get a list of the groups, then choose the group you're looking for. The start menu offers nothing even remotely comparable... all you get is a 1D list of pins in the start menu, which you are not able to group or customize at all.
In short, I want Windows 7.
Then you have the product you want and you're happy with it. Enjoy. Windows 8 can be easily configured to work the same exact way, now without any third party software in 8.1. Your use of bold and italic emphasis makes you seem very indignant about an issue which is at best, a minor issue of system configuration.
Whoosh. It's not "more typing" because it's the same amount of typing as Windows 7. Want to stick to the GUI? You're free to do so. You probably shouldn't be launching cmd though.
Spy Handler wanted a way to do what he did in Windows 7 start menu. I gave it to him. Don't want to type (if you're launching the command prompt though, this probably doesn't bother you) then just press the start button and click on "cmd". It's listed right there if you set it to open "All Apps" with desktop apps listed first. It's literally two clicks away (start -> cmd), wheras in Windows 7 it's 4 clicks (Start -> all programs -> applications -> cmd)
maybe he wants it for the stuff that is in start menu. access to control panel for one. you know how stupid it is to drop into metro to launch an app in desktop? pretty stupid. but even more stupid is dropping into metro to launch control panel from which you launch the actual desktop control panel that has the stuff you were looking for.
You don't have to do that at all. Want the control panel? Rigtht click on the start menu, it's right there. Want to launch an app? Press win+s and type the first few letters. Control panel can be launched this way, or you can make it even faster by launching the control panel item you want straight from the search pane. Try using it before commenting next time.
I do so every day. Win8 at hom, Win7 at work. Start screen has all my pinned apps, and I can display more than 30 at a time. It scales great with resolution. With the start menu, the more items on it, the further away your most used app is from the start button. How wonderful. I especially hate the "All Programs" list in the start menu. An alphabetical list of folders named after app publishers instead of actual applications, all with the same icon (why is it even there then?). And it's oh so customizable. You have to go into a semi-hidden directory to edit the folders, and then there's even two foldres to go into: the user folder and the global folder, which you need admin permissions to edit. Why do you need admin privledges to edit a user application menu?
Oh and the hodgepodge of functionality. I love how in the start menu the oft used "search box" is right next to the shut down function, which is right next to a tiny tiny arrow which opens up lock computer/sleep functionalty. Why is the shut off button so large, when I do this function at most once a day? And next to often used functions like search and lock? Great UI.
For me, the start screen is much more customizable, much more informative, and easier to use all around. If I want to launch an app and i'm on the desktop, I win+s to pull up the search bar and type the app name. If I don't know the app name, I open up the "All Apps" window and I sort and I can see all my installed apps at a glance instead of rooting through a tree of vaguely and uninformatively named folders.
Going back is not a breath of fresh air, it's suffocating.
Start8 will work fine in Windows 8.1: http://www.neowin.net/news/new-start8-beta-compatible-with-windows-81-preview-released
Windows 8.1 adds the start button just for you. You can get around Windows 8.1 stock just fine without any access to metro UI elements.
This is not true at all. There are more keyboard shortcuts in Windows 8 than ever before. I get around fine 100% keyboard, you just have to learn the shortcuts. Even the start screen is navigable with the keyboard. For *every* touch or mouse function, there is a keyboard equivalent.
You press start and type "cmd". Typing on the start screen initiates a search. Alternatively press win+s to open the search panel, and type "cmd". Alternatively right click on the start menu and click run, then type cmd.
What exactly do you want the start menu back for? The start button can be configured to send you to the All Apps window, which takes you to a sortable list of all your apps. Much more useful than an alphabetical list of folders with identical icons, IMO. You can turn off hot corners. You can boot right to desktop. They've brought back unified search. You can even pull up the (not full screen) search pane directly from the desktop, and search for files and applications in a unified view.
What more exactly do you want? Yes, it's different, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that it's not better. What is so great about the start menu that you refuse nothing less than a line-for-line copy?