I see someone needs to learn what tautology means.
I know plenty of people that managed to get a CS degree(with a 2.3 or GPA) and learned nothing and are now working retail.
Even in easier fields like business or laughable degree like communication or marketing, loads of people graduate without learning anything, much less understand how to learn and reason. Exhibit A: Sarah Palin Exhibit B: George W. Bush Exhibit C: That whacko birther lady, I forget her name and don't care enough to search for it.
My rule of thumb is that if someone graduated with much less than a 3.5(depends on school) they didn't really understand much of anything. If they graduated under a 3.0, regardless of school, they are worthless.
If you have anything more than CRUD needs for your web app, you don't hire a web developer to do the back end, you have someone with a lot of RDBMS training.
If you need graphics, you hire an artist.
The actual programming part should be done by someone with a sound theoretical background in not only programming, but basic network concepts and a strong understanding of HTTP. He doesn't need to know how to lat out a page or create graphics that don't make eyes bleed.
If a C++ programmer was sat down and told he had to write a fully dynamic web site from scratch**, he would stand up and walk out and get a job with a company that has a clue.
Wrong, you think that because you are under-educated.
Any 4 or 5 year CS program is going to miss lots of topics, but ya know what? A properly grounded CS grad can learn anything on his own.
My CS program didn't require any GUI class, but that somehow didn't stop me from learning multiple UI libraries using multiple programming languages on my own. A self-trained monkey might be able to learn how to effectively use one, but will struggle learning a second in a different language. Another difference is that I can actually write my own GUI libraries if I ever need to. Just like I could create a custom tree or linked list that is optimized for the task at hand and will perform better than the generic off the shelf implementations that ship with languages. Self trained people rarely can drill down that deeply, very rarely.
People like you are the ones stuck because all you know is Java or whatever, but the people you sneer at can get hired anywhere and pick up whatever language and area they will be working in quickly because they have the theoretical background.
A huge red flag when hiring is if the applicant says "I am a programmer". No, they are an API monkey and not hired.
You don't need a CS to do what is basically the fast food of CS.
Computer Science is, unsurprisingly, yet surprises many, is not about computers, but rather computation.
People who don't understand the basic theory of computer science, are not computer scientists, nor are they programmers. They end up as a programming language end-user and the actual computation is black magic to them.
It is why you see self-trained monkeys talking about how ActiveRecord or Spring, or whatever, is "magic".
The theoretical stuff that the idiots sneer at is absolutely required to understand applied computer science aka every day stuff.
Of course to understand the theory you need a base mathematical understanding that includes, algebra, set and group theory, relational theory(ever hear people talk about how the relation in relational database means how tables are 'related'. Not only are they wrong, they are pathetically wrong. Associations are not relations), induction, and a bit of linear algebra, calculus and stats.
Cops are ill educated thugs, with very few exceptions.
Where I live a cop murdered a kid with autism that was trying to buy a candy bar off a false ID of a robber. Of course the local prosecutor declined to charge him so the feds had to step in. He was found guilty and 50 cops cheered him as he walked out of the courthouse. Him and those 50 cops should get life and spend it in the general population. Any cop that would support him is evil by definition.
That most pathetic thing is that every year there are 4-5 murders committed by cops every year and this prick was the only one charged. I don't even live in a big city, the town and surrounding area has maybe 300,000 max. That is not even mentioning the constant drag racing at 3 AM, charging innocent people with crimes, etc.
We need to double their pay but not until we quadruple the standards for hiring and retention. A four year degree that includes some legal training, along with a lot of psychology and sociology. Then a 6 week pre-police academy program where they are constantly stressed and rated on how well they respond. After the academy, every year they have to go through a 2 week review given by community representatives where they are either retained or fired.
Also 1 case of violating someone's rights results in instant termination and criminal charges.
The power hungry thugs that want to be cops to break skulls won't even be able to get a 4 degree much less get through the hiring process.
They also need to be demilitarized, treating someone in a house that has a search warrant as the enemy and charging in with assault weapons drawn has caused many cop deaths and homeowners being unfairly charged with murder.
Dumbass
People are saying that Apple is twice as expensive as comparable PC's which is not only false, Apple is cheaper on comparable hardware. I see you are too stupid to follow conversations so I am done with you, but will just add a little anecdote since you mentioned Toshiba
In 2007 I got a Toshiba Qosmio for $550 at Best Buy, well BB listed it at $1500 and I didn't order that one. I ordered a $550 lower end Toshiba through their web site for store pickup and their moronic staff gave me the Qosmio. No, it did not compare with any Apple laptop. It was heavy, poorly made, sluggish, even when I tore out Windows and put a proper OS on it. To Toshiba's credit they use very Linux-friendly hardware.
$2 billion is a lot of money to MS and they could have spent in many other ways that would guarantee at least some return.
Microsoft could have put that $2 billion into private cloud system. This is where MS should be instead of losing billions in the consumer electronics toy market,
They could have spent that to produce an OS that businesses would want to spent money to upgrade to.
They could have bought treasury bills and done better than throwing $2 billion into a black hole.
Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head too often as a child?
2007 saw a 35%ish percent increase of Mac sales, OSX Leopard was flying off the shelf, the iPod had total control of the MP3 market, and the iPhone was introduced that year leading to a few million sales that year.
Apple was not close to tanking in 2007.
Mac had a double digit growth rates and they had near total lock on MP3 players, iPhone was beginning and was a success from day 1.
Where you 10 in 2007?
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2007/12/apple-2007-best-year-ever/
If you think that Dell today and Apple in 2007 bear any resemblance you really shouldn't be in this discussion.
Xbox is about $4,000,000,000 in the red. That is a failure.
Worldwide, Xbox is dead last and the US is not nearly the largest console market in the world, not by half.
Do you actually think that the $500 Dell can compete on hardware specs, quality or software against a Mac?
If you do you are beyond retarded.
Go compare spec for spec machines, and even ignoring the crapware that Windows OEM's stuff in their machines, the Mac is almost always cheaper.
Apple is an OEM that also has its own operating system.
What Apple does is use high quality off the shelf hardware with a custom designed high quality case and then puts high quality software in it.
In many respects that are far and above any other OEM, like Dell that buys cheap parts and stuffs cheap crapware in it, but they are still just an OEM.
A PC that is half the cost of a Mac can not be compared to the Mac.
A PC that costs 40% of a Mac might have comparable hardware, but it is loaded with crapware and can't come close to the performance of that Mac,
Like a Lexus is more expensive than a Hyundai, but much more advanced, so is a Mac.
Before you label me a Cult of Jobs member or some other equally inane statement that could only come from someone who feel inferior, I have never given even 1 penny to Apple.
Slashdot Mirror
Thank you for summing up my simple point.
Yup, funny how the cops rampage seems to be getting little attention.
I see someone needs to learn what tautology means.
I know plenty of people that managed to get a CS degree(with a 2.3 or GPA) and learned nothing and are now working retail.
Even in easier fields like business or laughable degree like communication or marketing, loads of people graduate without learning anything, much less understand how to learn and reason. Exhibit A: Sarah Palin Exhibit B: George W. Bush Exhibit C: That whacko birther lady, I forget her name and don't care enough to search for it.
My rule of thumb is that if someone graduated with much less than a 3.5(depends on school) they didn't really understand much of anything. If they graduated under a 3.0, regardless of school, they are worthless.
If you have anything more than CRUD needs for your web app, you don't hire a web developer to do the back end, you have someone with a lot of RDBMS training.
If you need graphics, you hire an artist.
The actual programming part should be done by someone with a sound theoretical background in not only programming, but basic network concepts and a strong understanding of HTTP. He doesn't need to know how to lat out a page or create graphics that don't make eyes bleed.
If a C++ programmer was sat down and told he had to write a fully dynamic web site from scratch**, he would stand up and walk out and get a job with a company that has a clue.
**No one programs anything from "scratch".
I have found that experience without the educational background is brittle and does not scale, at all.
Wrong, you think that because you are under-educated. Any 4 or 5 year CS program is going to miss lots of topics, but ya know what? A properly grounded CS grad can learn anything on his own. My CS program didn't require any GUI class, but that somehow didn't stop me from learning multiple UI libraries using multiple programming languages on my own. A self-trained monkey might be able to learn how to effectively use one, but will struggle learning a second in a different language. Another difference is that I can actually write my own GUI libraries if I ever need to. Just like I could create a custom tree or linked list that is optimized for the task at hand and will perform better than the generic off the shelf implementations that ship with languages. Self trained people rarely can drill down that deeply, very rarely. People like you are the ones stuck because all you know is Java or whatever, but the people you sneer at can get hired anywhere and pick up whatever language and area they will be working in quickly because they have the theoretical background. A huge red flag when hiring is if the applicant says "I am a programmer". No, they are an API monkey and not hired.
You don't need a CS to do what is basically the fast food of CS. Computer Science is, unsurprisingly, yet surprises many, is not about computers, but rather computation. People who don't understand the basic theory of computer science, are not computer scientists, nor are they programmers. They end up as a programming language end-user and the actual computation is black magic to them.
It is why you see self-trained monkeys talking about how ActiveRecord or Spring, or whatever, is "magic".
The theoretical stuff that the idiots sneer at is absolutely required to understand applied computer science aka every day stuff.
Of course to understand the theory you need a base mathematical understanding that includes, algebra, set and group theory, relational theory(ever hear people talk about how the relation in relational database means how tables are 'related'. Not only are they wrong, they are pathetically wrong. Associations are not relations), induction, and a bit of linear algebra, calculus and stats.
Cops are ill educated thugs, with very few exceptions.
Where I live a cop murdered a kid with autism that was trying to buy a candy bar off a false ID of a robber. Of course the local prosecutor declined to charge him so the feds had to step in. He was found guilty and 50 cops cheered him as he walked out of the courthouse. Him and those 50 cops should get life and spend it in the general population. Any cop that would support him is evil by definition.
That most pathetic thing is that every year there are 4-5 murders committed by cops every year and this prick was the only one charged. I don't even live in a big city, the town and surrounding area has maybe 300,000 max. That is not even mentioning the constant drag racing at 3 AM, charging innocent people with crimes, etc.
We need to double their pay but not until we quadruple the standards for hiring and retention. A four year degree that includes some legal training, along with a lot of psychology and sociology. Then a 6 week pre-police academy program where they are constantly stressed and rated on how well they respond. After the academy, every year they have to go through a 2 week review given by community representatives where they are either retained or fired.
Also 1 case of violating someone's rights results in instant termination and criminal charges.
The power hungry thugs that want to be cops to break skulls won't even be able to get a 4 degree much less get through the hiring process.
They also need to be demilitarized, treating someone in a house that has a search warrant as the enemy and charging in with assault weapons drawn has caused many cop deaths and homeowners being unfairly charged with murder.
No it doesn't.
You could take a 60 year old who has never even thought of harming anyone, and mistreat him to the point where he would go on a rampage.
Dumbass People are saying that Apple is twice as expensive as comparable PC's which is not only false, Apple is cheaper on comparable hardware. I see you are too stupid to follow conversations so I am done with you, but will just add a little anecdote since you mentioned Toshiba In 2007 I got a Toshiba Qosmio for $550 at Best Buy, well BB listed it at $1500 and I didn't order that one. I ordered a $550 lower end Toshiba through their web site for store pickup and their moronic staff gave me the Qosmio. No, it did not compare with any Apple laptop. It was heavy, poorly made, sluggish, even when I tore out Windows and put a proper OS on it. To Toshiba's credit they use very Linux-friendly hardware.
"Own up to the fact they aren't in the same league as Dell, HP, and other major players"
WTF?
Since when has canonical ever been in competition with OEM's?
$2 billion is a lot of money to MS and they could have spent in many other ways that would guarantee at least some return.
Microsoft could have put that $2 billion into private cloud system. This is where MS should be instead of losing billions in the consumer electronics toy market,
They could have spent that to produce an OS that businesses would want to spent money to upgrade to.
They could have bought treasury bills and done better than throwing $2 billion into a black hole.
Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head too often as a child?
2007 saw a 35%ish percent increase of Mac sales, OSX Leopard was flying off the shelf, the iPod had total control of the MP3 market, and the iPhone was introduced that year leading to a few million sales that year.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2007/12/apple-2007-best-year-ever/
That $150 million dollars was a tiny fraction on Apple's profit that year.
Apple was not close to tanking in 2007. Mac had a double digit growth rates and they had near total lock on MP3 players, iPhone was beginning and was a success from day 1. Where you 10 in 2007? http://arstechnica.com/apple/2007/12/apple-2007-best-year-ever/ If you think that Dell today and Apple in 2007 bear any resemblance you really shouldn't be in this discussion.
If MS didn't know that Apple already had huge locked in growth they were blind.
Even in 2007 Apple was growing fast.
Completely different circumstances. MS has way more control of Dell than a paltry $150 million could ever for Apple.
However you get money from investors those investors have control.
If Dell wanted autonomy, selling out to MS and SL would be the wrong way to go.
Basically, what Dell did was let VC firms take control of his company.
Lead the market for Win RT? LOL What market? iOS and Android have a total lock on the market between them.
That was more to keep MS from getting smacked-down for shitty business practices than anything.
The other motivation was MS wanted to make money on something and Apple was doing something MS hadn't done for years: grow.
Even in 2007, $150 million was pocket change to Apple. MS wouldn't get much influence for that.
It would be like MS investing $100 in some one man startup and expecting any measure of control.
Dell is taking the money to survive, huge difference for Dell and MS's ability to dictate to Dell.
Xbox is about $4,000,000,000 in the red. That is a failure. Worldwide, Xbox is dead last and the US is not nearly the largest console market in the world, not by half.
Dell is just as dead as Nokia. They just haven't caught up to that fact.
Nokia was headed towards death and as I last-ditch effort they actually tied themselves to the failure known as Windows Phone.
MS's incompetence drove the final nail into Nokia, but it is still Nokia's fault for climbing into bed with MS.
Why should Microsoft be allowed to dictate anything to hardware makers and thus non-Windows users?
Do you actually think that the $500 Dell can compete on hardware specs, quality or software against a Mac? If you do you are beyond retarded. Go compare spec for spec machines, and even ignoring the crapware that Windows OEM's stuff in their machines, the Mac is almost always cheaper.
Apple doesn't make hardware.
Intel, Nvidia, Asus, etc are harware companies.
Apple is an OEM that also has its own operating system.
What Apple does is use high quality off the shelf hardware with a custom designed high quality case and then puts high quality software in it.
In many respects that are far and above any other OEM, like Dell that buys cheap parts and stuffs cheap crapware in it, but they are still just an OEM.
A PC that is half the cost of a Mac can not be compared to the Mac.
A PC that costs 40% of a Mac might have comparable hardware, but it is loaded with crapware and can't come close to the performance of that Mac,
Like a Lexus is more expensive than a Hyundai, but much more advanced, so is a Mac.
Before you label me a Cult of Jobs member or some other equally inane statement that could only come from someone who feel inferior, I have never given even 1 penny to Apple.