@home's network is the single most shoddily run outfit out there (of this scale anyway). They have had ongoing routing and server problems since the day they started. I constantly have to deal with the fallout from users who think it is the ISP that I work for's fault that their @home destined messages cannot be delivered (when fact it is because the @home servers or network are screwed up yet again). Recently the routing issue has been so bad that almost every single @home user was unsubscribed from the mailing lists on our local listserver for being undeliverable. If you take a peek in Usenet you will see that this is affecting @home customer's across the board. Word has it that Rogers and Shaw (here in Canada) are near going postal over the lousy service @home provides and have plans to either take over the company or set up their own competing service. All I can say is that if you use a cable modem for speed, be smart and get an external mail provider if you at all care about reliable email (and Usenet for that matter).
And "American Beauty" won Oscars while the film it shamelessly ripped off and homegenized "Happiness" was ignored. Winning a Hugo does not necessarily equate to a great novel.
That said, SIASL was decent until the half way point when it turned into a elderly man's porno fantasies. Still nothing compared to John Brunner's work or the all time greatness that was Philip K Dick.
Nothing going on in Vancouver? Well maybe if you get off your ass and look a bit harder you will see that there is tons of cool shit happening in Vancouver. The Columbia (down the road from the infamous Pigeon Park) has live bands all the time. I saw Media Core do a couple of cool electronic shows there but they also feature anything from death metal to noise rock to lof-fi. The American has bands from time to time. There are lots of all ages shows put on by various collectives. There are lots of art college based gigs. There's the Starfish Room if you are into "larger" acts. There is the Railway Club if you like more acoustic stuff. I live in Victoria and I know of more going on in Vancouver than you. Get a life buddy. ..maybe pick up the Goergia Straight and do a quick search on the 'Net next time you get the urge to go out.
I think it would be funnier to tear apart the paint by numbers site they have set up via Network Solutions hosting partner Image Cafe. Maybe I am just being snooty but why is an industry association backed by big money using an el cheapo and lo-fi building block hosting provider? This seems less professional than using Front Page bots even. A redirect to an anti-DeCCS site maybe? The mind wanders. . .
It's not like these are the only plain text protocols out there, and they are not even the biggies. What about POP access which in most cases is going to be plain text or HTTP connections doing authentication? If the goal is security, all unnecessary daemons should be disabled of course but it seems illogical to target these services when far more prevalent ones are in general use. If it just the file sharing business, enact quotas for all users and use a mailer daemon that can filter out non-text attachements (which will at least stop the non-technical users from sending files this way).
This sounds nice and all but isn't this just a more limited version of Firewire? Firewire is supposed to include the same or more channels of audio, includes MIDI in the streaming protocols and is a true "standard". Why would anyone want to blow reams of cash on proprietary stuff when they can pay commodity pricing on Firewire? Gibson VS Yamaha? Who do you think is gonna win that one. . .
Ok Mr. Smartypants. Since you want to resort to insulting my spelling (which usually isn't that bad) instead of dealing with issues or answering my questions here goes. ..from the Cold Fusion site page:
ColdFusion uses 32-bit ODBC drivers or OLE DB to communicate with a wide variety of relational database systems. (Note: the Enterprise edition supports native drivers for Sybase and Oracle.) It has been tested for compatibility with the Microsoft ODBC Desktop. Drivers, which are bundled with the product: Microsoft SQL Server , Microsoft Access, Microsoft FoxPro, Oracle Borland Paradox, Borland dBASE, Microsoft Excel, Plain Text Files
Now, from what I understand (and do correct me if I am incorrect) Cold Fusion is not a database system unto itself. You wanna do database queries you need a database server sitting underneath it (i.e. it is just a scripting language system with bundled apps). Access is not an option - it is solely single user. Use that on a web server and you are gonna get corruption. So that leaves real database systems such as SQL Server or Oracle since we are talking NT. Along those lines, unless you wanna play footsies with various legal departments you need the right site liscenses no? That is minimum 12 grand and that is being conservative.
So unless the Cold Fusion site is terribly misleading (possible), you still need a database server if you want to do database stuff. If you don't need this then what exactly is the point of Cold Fusion? I'm not trying to be obstinate I just don't see the purpose of the thing - it really appears to be nothing more than hype. If you know of some site with a decent overview that shows differently point me at it.
Just for clarification, everything I stated about Cold Fusion was garnered from perusing their website. Saying I have not used it is not the same as "I have not looked into it". If you know of somewhere that explains why Cold Fusion is cool without all the vapid marketing (i.e. actual content), please point me to it.
With respect to the cost issue, I would have thought it seemed obvious but if you need it spelled out here goes:
Cold Fusion - one to three grand US Windows NT Server - about a grand for a reasonable license Microsoft SQL server - 10 grand for a basic setup PC powerful enough to run all this - minimum a grand
Costs more if you want to run Oracle or Solaris. For most web applications, PHP and MySQL is just fine and will cost you a total of about a grand to set up.
I'll be straight up and say that I have never used Cold Fusion. That outta the way, I gotta ask Why does anyone? To you use Cold Fusion you need a fast machine with lotsa RAM, Windows NT Server, Oracle or MS SQL Server and we are talking about 12 grand US for even a small implementation.
More importantly, CF seems to be little more than Yet Another Scripting Language that sits on top of a database server and whose only distinguishing feature is that has some bundled apps. Basically a glorified Front Page for database apps.
The competition? PHP3 plus MySQL and a Linux box will set you back less than a grand, has lots of available code out there, is very easy to work in, etc. Am I missing something really important about Cold Fusion? Why would folks possibly want to throw mega bucks at something that has very inexpensive and flexible alternatives readily available?
I use PHP lots these days - www.samplelibrary.net is done solely in PHP3 as is my under construction FAQ engine (FAQ-U). How would Cold Fusion make my life better than what I use now? =)
Am I like the only one that remembers the bit on That's Incredible in the early 80's where *on a standard television broadcast* they ran a 3D segment using some setup invented by a couple of backyard hacker types? Basically it used two cameras and a switcher box to cut back and forth between every other scan (or something along those lines). It jumped around a bit (read looked wiggly) but damned if it wasn't 3D. They showed some sports footage and some frizbee tossing that looked straight out of Jaws 3D. Very cool and no special equipment required by the end user. Whatever happened to these folks?
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@home's network is the single most shoddily run outfit out there (of this scale anyway). They have had ongoing routing and server problems since the day they started. I constantly have to deal with the fallout from users who think it is the ISP that I work for's fault that their @home destined messages cannot be delivered (when fact it is because the @home servers or network are screwed up yet again). Recently the routing issue has been so bad that almost every single @home user was unsubscribed from the mailing lists on our local listserver for being undeliverable. If you take a peek in Usenet you will see that this is affecting @home customer's across the board. Word has it that Rogers and Shaw (here in Canada) are near going postal over the lousy service @home provides and have plans to either take over the company or set up their own competing service. All I can say is that if you use a cable modem for speed, be smart and get an external mail provider if you at all care about reliable email (and Usenet for that matter).
And "American Beauty" won Oscars while the film it shamelessly ripped off and homegenized "Happiness" was ignored. Winning a Hugo does not necessarily equate to a great novel.
That said, SIASL was decent until the half way point when it turned into a elderly man's porno fantasies. Still nothing compared to John Brunner's work or the all time greatness that was Philip K Dick.
Nothing going on in Vancouver? Well maybe if you get off your ass and look a bit harder you will see that there is tons of cool shit happening in Vancouver. The Columbia (down the road from the infamous Pigeon Park) has live bands all the time. I saw Media Core do a couple of cool electronic shows there but they also feature anything from death metal to noise rock to lof-fi. The American has bands from time to time. There are lots of all ages shows put on by various collectives. There are lots of art college based gigs. There's the Starfish Room if you are into "larger" acts. There is the Railway Club if you like more acoustic stuff. I live in Victoria and I know of more going on in Vancouver than you. Get a life buddy. . .maybe pick up the Goergia Straight and do a quick search on the 'Net next time you get the urge to go out.
=)
It's not like these are the only plain text protocols out there, and they are not even the biggies. What about POP access which in most cases is going to be plain text or HTTP connections doing authentication? If the goal is security, all unnecessary daemons should be disabled of course but it seems illogical to target these services when far more prevalent ones are in general use. If it just the file sharing business, enact quotas for all users and use a mailer daemon that can filter out non-text attachements (which will at least stop the non-technical users from sending files this way).
This sounds nice and all but isn't this just a more limited version of Firewire? Firewire is supposed to include the same or more channels of audio, includes MIDI in the streaming protocols and is a true "standard". Why would anyone want to blow reams of cash on proprietary stuff when they can pay commodity pricing on Firewire? Gibson VS Yamaha? Who do you think is gonna win that one. . .
So unless the Cold Fusion site is terribly misleading (possible), you still need a database server if you want to do database stuff. If you don't need this then what exactly is the point of Cold Fusion? I'm not trying to be obstinate I just don't see the purpose of the thing - it really appears to be nothing more than hype. If you know of some site with a decent overview that shows differently point me at it.
With respect to the cost issue, I would have thought it seemed obvious but if you need it spelled out here goes:
Cold Fusion - one to three grand US
Windows NT Server - about a grand for a reasonable license
Microsoft SQL server - 10 grand for a basic setup
PC powerful enough to run all this - minimum a grand
Costs more if you want to run Oracle or Solaris. For most web applications, PHP and MySQL is just fine and will cost you a total of about a grand to set up.
More importantly, CF seems to be little more than Yet Another Scripting Language that sits on top of a database server and whose only distinguishing feature is that has some bundled apps. Basically a glorified Front Page for database apps.
The competition? PHP3 plus MySQL and a Linux box will set you back less than a grand, has lots of available code out there, is very easy to work in, etc. Am I missing something really important about Cold Fusion? Why would folks possibly want to throw mega bucks at something that has very inexpensive and flexible alternatives readily available?
I use PHP lots these days - www.samplelibrary.net is done solely in PHP3 as is my under construction FAQ engine (FAQ-U). How would Cold Fusion make my life better than what I use now? =)
Cheers
Am I like the only one that remembers the bit on That's Incredible in the early 80's where *on a standard television broadcast* they ran a 3D segment using some setup invented by a couple of backyard hacker types? Basically it used two cameras and a switcher box to cut back and forth between every other scan (or something along those lines). It jumped around a bit (read looked wiggly) but damned if it wasn't 3D. They showed some sports footage and some frizbee tossing that looked straight out of Jaws 3D. Very cool and no special equipment required by the end user. Whatever happened to these folks?