How does Sun (or anyone) even begin to believe that a solution that requires applications be written in Java will displace AJAX techniques which can be code with any language? Only the true Java-faithful will swallow that line.
>>There is of course the "stripping" process to pare down the image size, but frankly it still comes out pretty large
Stripping isn't the only way to package in Smalltalk.;-) I build Liberty BASIC in Smalltalk by starting with a minimal image and adding my classes to it. Then I save the image. This is just the opposite of what you describe, and is not hard to do. The final application object image is only a little more than a megabyte.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com
There are plenty of programming tools aimed at beginners (my own Liberty BASIC is a popular example), but since Microsoft does not promote programming as a high profile activity it really gets no attention. There is no icon on the desktop or in the Start menu that starts up an easy and freewheeling programming language for the masses. I mean how much would it cost Microsoft to employ a couple of people whose sole job it was to develop a version of QBasic for Windows, and then give it away?
You hit something on the head here with the idea of instant gratification. What's important is not whether the language is interpreted (all languages are ultimately interpreted by something at some level), but whether the user gets that "clay in the hands" experience. One really great language which goes even further than "change some stuff, run, change some stuff, run" is Smalltalk. With that language you can just type any Smalltalk expression and "do it". You don't even have to have a program. I hope to simulate this kind of kind of experience my my next version of Liberty BASIC, which also lets you type a bunch of code and run just the lines you want by highlighting them, but it doesn't have the same sort malleability as Smalltalk.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com
Normally, I would push Liberty BASIC (I know, a shameless plug;-), which is a terrific language for kids! BUT if you're going to recommend LISP, I've gotta trumpet Smalltalk (www.smalltalk.org). Smalltalk was inspired by Alan Kay's desire to create a medium approachable by everyone, especially children. Even Apple and Disney recognize Smalltalk's value as a medium for everyone with their amazing open source Squeak Smalltalk project (www.squeak.org)!
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com
I think that it is important to remember that this should be made fun for kids, and I think BASIC is good for this. I'm not sure how well I would have understood Pascal at 12 years old (which is when I started).
Whether you teach your kids BASIC or some other language, encourage them to learn another. Nothing stopped me from then going on to teach myself FORTH, C, and Smalltalk. If they was to be really good, encourage them to read, a lot.
I remember fondly the early home computers and their built-in BASICs, (warning! shameless plug) so I wrote Liberty BASIC so that Windows users wouldn't be denied a good old BASIC.
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com
Windows 95/98 does come with QBASIC, but you have to dig for it on the CD. QBASIC is a great way to start. On the other hand, QBASIC won't let you take advantage of Windows.
Consider Liberty BASIC, which is designed for Windows and is meant as a language for learning. It even has support for LOGO-like turtle graphics, and there is a tremendous online community built up around it.
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com
I actually started programming on an HP-67 calculator (my dad was an engineer). After this I wrote mostly in BASIC for some time. It was a blast!
A lot of people like to slam BASIC, but nothing stopped me from going on to hand assembling machine code, moving to FORTH, then C, and then Smalltalk (which is itself a fantastic language to teaching kids, having been inspired by Seymour Papert's work on LOGO, a language for kids)!
Finally, I wrote my own version of BASIC for the student called Liberty BASIC (written in Smalltalk, what else?). It is meant to provide that good old home computer BASIC experience, but for Windows. BASIC lives!
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com
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How does Sun (or anyone) even begin to believe that a solution that requires applications be written in Java will displace AJAX techniques which can be code with any language? Only the true Java-faithful will swallow that line.
That's a pretty big obstacle to overcome.
>>There is of course the "stripping" process to pare down the image size, but frankly it still comes out pretty large
;-) I build Liberty BASIC in Smalltalk by starting with a minimal image and adding my classes to it. Then I save the image. This is just the opposite of what you describe, and is not hard to do. The final application object image is only a little more than a megabyte.
Stripping isn't the only way to package in Smalltalk.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
I don't get it.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
You hit something on the head here with the idea of instant gratification. What's important is not whether the language is interpreted (all languages are ultimately interpreted by something at some level), but whether the user gets that "clay in the hands" experience. One really great language which goes even further than "change some stuff, run, change some stuff, run" is Smalltalk. With that language you can just type any Smalltalk expression and "do it". You don't even have to have a program. I hope to simulate this kind of kind of experience my my next version of Liberty BASIC, which also lets you type a bunch of code and run just the lines you want by highlighting them, but it doesn't have the same sort malleability as Smalltalk.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
Normally, I would push Liberty BASIC (I know, a shameless plug ;-), which is a terrific language for kids! BUT if you're going to recommend LISP, I've gotta trumpet Smalltalk (www.smalltalk.org). Smalltalk was inspired by Alan Kay's desire to create a medium approachable by everyone, especially children. Even Apple and Disney recognize Smalltalk's value as a medium for everyone with their amazing open source Squeak Smalltalk project (www.squeak.org)!
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
I think that it is important to remember that this should be made fun for kids, and I think BASIC is good for this. I'm not sure how well I would have understood Pascal at 12 years old (which is when I started).
Whether you teach your kids BASIC or some other language, encourage them to learn another. Nothing stopped me from then going on to teach myself FORTH, C, and Smalltalk. If they was to be really good, encourage them to read, a lot.
I remember fondly the early home computers and their built-in BASICs, (warning! shameless plug) so I wrote Liberty BASIC so that Windows users wouldn't be denied a good old BASIC.
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
Windows 95/98 does come with QBASIC, but you have to dig for it on the CD. QBASIC is a great way to start. On the other hand, QBASIC won't let you take advantage of Windows.
Consider Liberty BASIC, which is designed for Windows and is meant as a language for learning. It even has support for LOGO-like turtle graphics, and there is a tremendous online community built up around it.
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
I actually started programming on an HP-67 calculator (my dad was an engineer). After this I wrote mostly in BASIC for some time. It was a blast!
A lot of people like to slam BASIC, but nothing stopped me from going on to hand assembling machine code, moving to FORTH, then C, and then Smalltalk (which is itself a fantastic language to teaching kids, having been inspired by Seymour Papert's work on LOGO, a language for kids)!
Finally, I wrote my own version of BASIC for the student called Liberty BASIC (written in Smalltalk, what else?). It is meant to provide that good old home computer BASIC experience, but for Windows. BASIC lives!
Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com