How is charging about half what microsoft charges for an update, and giving you a free one for every one you have to buy (apple only charges every other update) "criminal"? And worse than microsoft?
Hey, we remember getting system 4 and 5 and 6 for free, but Apple has a different business model now.
Think of it this way-- you're really paying for the iApps but getting the OS for free.
Ok?
I really don't see how buying an os upgrade every other year is such a big deal. And it costs %60 of what you'd be paying to microsoft (Really even less when you factor in all the hassle and add-on packs MS sells.)
The people vote for a government which creates the checks and balances which restrict the behaviour of business where appropriate.
BZZT. Sorry. That is not the proper role of government. Not in no way.
The proper role of government is to protect human rights.
If they start doing that, then we can talk about extending their role into other areas.
But as it is now, EVERYTHING done by the government is done very poorly, and at absurd expense. It is competent at NOTHING. This has been proven time and again.
That you think that companies control the government just shows the delusion you are under-- you advocate FASCISM because you don't like the idea of having to live in a world where human rights are defended.
Companies operate- completely and totally- by free choice of exchange and association. All employees are free to resign, all customers are free to not buy, all shareholders are free to sell the stock. They are beholden to these three groups.
The government in contrast, operates b¥ use of brutal force and oppression-- you cannot resign if you're in the military. You cannot choose not to pay taxes because yuo think the money is being wasted, and %99 of the people who work for the government were not elected by you, and you can't choose not to vote for them (voting your shares) or to sell your shares.
These checks and balances you talk of would be a great idea-- where is the right to sue the government? It certainly sues individuals. But when the coast guard drilled 80,000 holes in a yacht because they thought the fiberglass (Which produces a white powder during manufacture) was *compressed cocaine* (a boat made of such would melt in water an sink immediately!) the owner was unable to recover the boat or any money because the government is immune from prosecution.
The BIGGEST polluter in the US is the government (specifically the military, followed by the BLM).
The BIGGEST cause of unemployment is the governemtns anti-scientific economics policies.
The BIGGEST drain on the economy and the standard of living of everyone is the regressive, oppressive, > %50 in my case-- taxes we pay... and the fact that we get almost no value for those taxes.
You think corporations are out of control? Then sell their stock.
If you don't own the stock, aren't an employee or customer, and haven't had your rights violated, then you have NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.
Lets enforce human rights, and stop advocating the oppression you advocate.
No, but their Owners are, and their owners deserve human rights. Even if you don't like it because you want what they've got and they don't want to give it to you and so you want to take it by force.
I will not let you say that taking it by force is "human rights" when it is, in fact, a violation of human rights.
The corporate system is failing to care for itself, let alone those who support it.
Garbage. There is absolutely no evidence to support that. This is pure, unmitigated, bigotry.
You say Enron! I say "Bill Clinton!" You say Arthur Anderson! I say "Wilie Horton".
Neither of those guys prove that all liberals are lying rapists, and neither of those companies are even EVIDENCE, let alone proof, that the corporate system is failing to take care of its own.
It has been, continues to be, and probably always will be, BY FAR, the most successful, freedom oriented, economic system on this planet.
Unless you lost money in Enron, et. al. you have no right to cry.
And you certainly have no right to demand that others give you money just because you want it.
Which is why I said "get a job". Liberals who want restrictions on corporations either are unemployed and don't know what corporations do, or are so jealous of actual competence that they want to destroy it.
If you're an anti-corporation person, you are anti-human rights. Every company is run by, employes, and provides services to, humans, who have the divine RIGHT to freely enter into the association with that entity. This right is part of the bill of rights, and when you want to take it away, you are violating human rights.
Any company that chooses to move its location is exercising a right given under the Bill of Rights.
Name me a SINGLE PROGRAM that has as GUI and has not changed in Jaguar. I have not found them. From the help program (rewritten it seems) to Mail to addressbook, etc. etc. etc. Hell, the entire ui changed.
And Quartz extreme works on cards with 16M of ram, it doesn't require 32M.
That you think jaguar is worth nothing is just stupidity on your part. I can't believe you're part of the ACN. You SHOULD leave and go to Linux and see how you like it.
Hell, you want jaguar cheap, just wait six months.
That you're complaining you can't have it cheap now (eg for free) is proof positive that you're just cheap.
For somebody who accuses others of "bald faced lying" you should avoid doing it yourself.
Your characterization of the cloning situation is a bald faced lie, and its obvious you don't even know the history of the situation.
Oh, and by the way, the "lie" you "caught" apple in? Is actually flat out, verifiable, reproducible truth.
That faster pentiums have come out in the interim does not make the statement a lie-- as it was and is the truth at the time it was said.
And you again show the equivilent of a $200 xbox (That stripped down, piece of shit from a fly by night manufactuerer- Dell) and compare it to a quality machine from a quality company.
Only a fucking idiot calls giving your COMPETITION custom designed chips for FREE "draconian licensing demands".
I think you should stop reading the "intentions" of the founding fathers and start reading what they actually WROTE. Oh, and check out the people who wrote the ideas that inspired them, such as Locke.
Man owns the product of his labor. Just cause you want it does not give you the right to take it if he wants to keep it.
Otherwise, he is your slave.
Its unfortunate that so many people these days advocate slavery under the banner of "freedom".
And on top of it all, they really are running around advocating that EVERYONE MUST use the GPL.
When people start talking in terms of MUST, you know the goons are what they really want.
To call that "Free" and claim the moral high road is disgusting.
In fact, it puts them beneath contempt for me. And thus they get no support.
I will use GPL software where I can do so without providing my source, and without violating the GPL. But I will not work on or release any of my software as GPL. In the future (when its economic value is gone) I intend to release my stuff as open source... when somethings no longer innovative, it should be open sourced (voluntarily, of course.)
But the GPL lost my support when Stallman called for a boycott of Apple in, what, 1990?
It its done right, you'd want it for the same reasons you want a GUI over the command line.
Pointing out that there are many people who would prefer the command line-- even think its *faster*. I don't think Apple's going 3D for the UI any time soon...
But you can't deny that with 10.2 the OS X UI is way ahead of anything else that's out there.
People who have never used it often dismiss it as "eye candy"... these are the same people who think the new imac is just a design statement because they don't realize how useful the movable display is-- after all, *they're* happy and they haven't needed to move their piano weighted display.
Aqua is Aqua not because its pretty- Its pretty because it makes it a LOT easier to look at for hours on end and a lot easier to use-- meaning you get things done faster.
This is the next step towards making it even prettier, smoother, and easier to use.
And I'd say apple's extended its normal 2 year lead over the rest of the industry to a 5 year lead with this. I can't imagine Linux doing this within the decade, and Microsoft will have a knockoff in 5 years that meets the checkmark requirements but doesn't really work that great.
I have a friend who keeps asking me "so, why don't you put linux on that thing". I like linux, and have used it extensively, and actually intended to make one of my boxes a linux server, but after installing it, never booted it again. Why bother? it takes work to use.... the Mac user experience takes NO WORK to use, you just use it. Which means my time is spent programming.
This is a freedom that you have to experience to understand... so those of you who poo poo OS X, I encourage you to try it out for awhile and see what all the fuss is about. Don't just assume its those "mac heads ranting". You'll be missing out.
Yes, we need the government deciding what companies can and can't do-- after all the government owns them!
Did you know that facism is not "government controlling people" its "government controlling companies"-- thats its distinction with communism which is "no companies allowed".
It should be illegal to propose that you restrict companies- profitable or not-- from exercising human rights.
If you own property, it is yours. Attempting to liberate it for "public good" is a violation of human rights-- whether that property is a banana or a microelectronics plant.
Mike Moore has made a career out of selling his failure as a human being as proof that companies are evil -- because there are lots of other human failures who want to believe that their own lives are not their own responsibility. And if it requires trampling on others human rights, so be it.
I had a original 1.0 release of the software, and very poor handwriting.
I had no trouble getting it to recognize my handwriting, and found it to be a delight to use.
The product was rather widely accepted before Jobs came back and killed it. Spinning Newton Inc out was the correct idea and would have made apple money-- they certainly were a profitable organization.
The newton was widely adopted and very successful. It just wasn't "Mass market" like the palm. But there was a huge industry.
Like NeXT its one of those technologies that pundits poo pooed (ignorant of technology they are anyway) and people assumed was a failure that wasn't profitable.
Hell, like APPLE.... even when it was 3 times the size of microsoft in revenues.
Yeah, but slashdot will never pass up the chance to perpetuate the myth that Steve Jobs is a petulant child who changed the text to spite those "newton lovers!"
As if he didn't point out that it was from the newton at WWDC.
In January 1996, The Wall Street Journal reported that over the prior weekend the boards of Sun and Apple had agreed to merge and that the deal was done, and to be announced later that week. For weeks after that people were claiming online that it really had happened and that the announcement had just been delayed.
As far as I know, the WSJ never retracted that story.
IF you want to talk about printing bad information-- the WSJ is a great example.
The project is being done completely by volunteers.
I don't think there's a major mac product in existence that hasn't had some work "done" on it by apple-- at least some assistance. I'm not saying people need apple's help, but, hell, I'm the smallest of the small fry of Apples developer program and I've had an apple engineer sit down with me and help me with a problem I was having in my code -- not to mention the two technical support incidents I need to use before they expire.
That Apple and or Sun has put engineers on the project helping it out does not undermine the value of the effort contributed by the volunteers. It just points out apple's desire to support applications on its platform.
Hell, they even hired the guy that did chimera, and I suspect a large part of his job at apple is working on chimera.
My objection is not over the fact that it is a volunteer project, or even "all volunteer". But that you emphasized completely-- implying that apple is providing no support at all. I find that hard to believe as I expect there are a number of apple employees volunteering in unofficial or official capacities... and if there aren't apple DTS is ready to help any project that needs it.
The registration is not enforced. Just don't be connected to the net when you go thru the process and then, it will say "you can register by doing such and such".
Registration is valuable-- you get discounts, and good info from Apple.
Making the registration easy is great for the average person-- they don't have to mess with it.
Jaguar has a new graphical subsystem called Quartz extreme. It has a refined aqua interface - yes, tehy changed the ui. And it has lots of other stuff.
10 was an upgrade on nine. This is an upgrade. ITs worth paying for.
You should be bitching if there wasn't enough new stuff in it, but unless you're running it you can't make that complaint.
Slashdot Mirror
Funny, I have an 18 month old laptop that Quartz Extreme supports. how is that?
Sheesh.
And you want SCSI? Ok, fine, its supported under OS X natively. My 9500 works just fine (running OS X)
$200? Why did you pull that number out of your ass?
You think we don't ALL know that Jaguar is only $129, and widely going to be discounted?
Sheesh.
Mod the parent up, not down. nobody has expressed this quite this way before, and its insightful.
How is charging about half what microsoft charges for an update, and giving you a free one for every one you have to buy (apple only charges every other update) "criminal"? And worse than microsoft?
Hey, we remember getting system 4 and 5 and 6 for free, but Apple has a different business model now.
Think of it this way-- you're really paying for the iApps but getting the OS for free.
Ok?
I really don't see how buying an os upgrade every other year is such a big deal. And it costs %60 of what you'd be paying to microsoft (Really even less when you factor in all the hassle and add-on packs MS sells.)
The people vote for a government which creates the checks and balances which restrict the behaviour of business where appropriate.
BZZT. Sorry. That is not the proper role of government. Not in no way.
The proper role of government is to protect human rights.
If they start doing that, then we can talk about extending their role into other areas.
But as it is now, EVERYTHING done by the government is done very poorly, and at absurd expense. It is competent at NOTHING. This has been proven time and again.
That you think that companies control the government just shows the delusion you are under-- you advocate FASCISM because you don't like the idea of having to live in a world where human rights are defended.
Companies operate- completely and totally- by free choice of exchange and association. All employees are free to resign, all customers are free to not buy, all shareholders are free to sell the stock. They are beholden to these three groups.
The government in contrast, operates b¥ use of brutal force and oppression-- you cannot resign if you're in the military. You cannot choose not to pay taxes because yuo think the money is being wasted, and %99 of the people who work for the government were not elected by you, and you can't choose not to vote for them (voting your shares) or to sell your shares.
These checks and balances you talk of would be a great idea-- where is the right to sue the government? It certainly sues individuals. But when the coast guard drilled 80,000 holes in a yacht because they thought the fiberglass (Which produces a white powder during manufacture) was *compressed cocaine* (a boat made of such would melt in water an sink immediately!) the owner was unable to recover the boat or any money because the government is immune from prosecution.
The BIGGEST polluter in the US is the government (specifically the military, followed by the BLM).
The BIGGEST cause of unemployment is the governemtns anti-scientific economics policies.
The BIGGEST drain on the economy and the standard of living of everyone is the regressive, oppressive, > %50 in my case-- taxes we pay... and the fact that we get almost no value for those taxes.
You think corporations are out of control? Then sell their stock.
If you don't own the stock, aren't an employee or customer, and haven't had your rights violated, then you have NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.
Lets enforce human rights, and stop advocating the oppression you advocate.
My post got:
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, Insightful=1, Total=2.
Well, we've got at least one Troll around here-- and its the moderator who gave me Troll for that statement.
That Steve Jobs is WRONGLY portrayed is insightful, it is not trolling.
I provided facts to back up the statement.
Companies aren't humans.
No, but their Owners are, and their owners deserve human rights. Even if you don't like it because you want what they've got and they don't want to give it to you and so you want to take it by force.
I will not let you say that taking it by force is "human rights" when it is, in fact, a violation of human rights.
The corporate system is failing to care for itself, let alone those who support it.
Garbage. There is absolutely no evidence to support that. This is pure, unmitigated, bigotry.
You say Enron! I say "Bill Clinton!" You say Arthur Anderson! I say "Wilie Horton".
Neither of those guys prove that all liberals are lying rapists, and neither of those companies are even EVIDENCE, let alone proof, that the corporate system is failing to take care of its own.
It has been, continues to be, and probably always will be, BY FAR, the most successful, freedom oriented, economic system on this planet.
Unless you lost money in Enron, et. al. you have no right to cry.
And you certainly have no right to demand that others give you money just because you want it.
Which is why I said "get a job". Liberals who want restrictions on corporations either are unemployed and don't know what corporations do, or are so jealous of actual competence that they want to destroy it.
If you're an anti-corporation person, you are anti-human rights. Every company is run by, employes, and provides services to, humans, who have the divine RIGHT to freely enter into the association with that entity. This right is part of the bill of rights, and when you want to take it away, you are violating human rights.
Any company that chooses to move its location is exercising a right given under the Bill of Rights.
Oh, great, I can manufacture those by the hundreds!
You think I could sell them on eBay to people who want the discount?
Oh yeah, real authoritative stuff.
One guy comparing abandonware (the avid system) a product that has never been optimized on the mac and was abandoned with final cut pro came out.
And you think John carmack is an authority on cpu performance? Sheesh.
You can't defy the laws of physics and economics--- even if John Carmack claims they don't exist.
Your position is one of ignorance. And thats something you should not be proud of.
I have proven my case.
I too doubt you even own a mac.
Name me a SINGLE PROGRAM that has as GUI and has not changed in Jaguar. I have not found them. From the help program (rewritten it seems) to Mail to addressbook, etc. etc. etc. Hell, the entire ui changed.
And Quartz extreme works on cards with 16M of ram, it doesn't require 32M.
That you think jaguar is worth nothing is just stupidity on your part. I can't believe you're part of the ACN. You SHOULD leave and go to Linux and see how you like it.
Hell, you want jaguar cheap, just wait six months.
That you're complaining you can't have it cheap now (eg for free) is proof positive that you're just cheap.
Your are a fucking idiot.
You think a computer with twice the clock speed is a faster computer? Its not, its actually slower.
Probably about half as fast.
And, as I have done time and again, comparable machines are cheaper when you buy from Apple.
You haven't proven anything-- except that you don't grasp the basics of computer architecture.
Thanks for repeating what you said and ignoring the facts.
Such denial. Sheesh. You don't even know how fast the processor in your own computer actually is.
Its a shame that so many people have been fraudulently sold pcs.
But its unacceptable that they go around showing their stupidity and calling it superiority.
For somebody who accuses others of "bald faced lying" you should avoid doing it yourself.
Your characterization of the cloning situation is a bald faced lie, and its obvious you don't even know the history of the situation.
Oh, and by the way, the "lie" you "caught" apple in? Is actually flat out, verifiable, reproducible truth.
That faster pentiums have come out in the interim does not make the statement a lie-- as it was and is the truth at the time it was said.
And you again show the equivilent of a $200 xbox (That stripped down, piece of shit from a fly by night manufactuerer- Dell) and compare it to a quality machine from a quality company.
Only a fucking idiot calls giving your COMPETITION custom designed chips for FREE "draconian licensing demands".
You're a fucking liar yourself.
I think you should stop reading the "intentions" of the founding fathers and start reading what they actually WROTE. Oh, and check out the people who wrote the ideas that inspired them, such as Locke.
Man owns the product of his labor. Just cause you want it does not give you the right to take it if he wants to keep it.
Otherwise, he is your slave.
Its unfortunate that so many people these days advocate slavery under the banner of "freedom".
Yep.
And on top of it all, they really are running around advocating that EVERYONE MUST use the GPL.
When people start talking in terms of MUST, you know the goons are what they really want.
To call that "Free" and claim the moral high road is disgusting.
In fact, it puts them beneath contempt for me. And thus they get no support.
I will use GPL software where I can do so without providing my source, and without violating the GPL. But I will not work on or release any of my software as GPL. In the future (when its economic value is gone) I intend to release my stuff as open source... when somethings no longer innovative, it should be open sourced (voluntarily, of course.)
But the GPL lost my support when Stallman called for a boycott of Apple in, what, 1990?
It its done right, you'd want it for the same reasons you want a GUI over the command line.
Pointing out that there are many people who would prefer the command line-- even think its *faster*.
I don't think Apple's going 3D for the UI any time soon...
But you can't deny that with 10.2 the OS X UI is way ahead of anything else that's out there.
People who have never used it often dismiss it as "eye candy"... these are the same people who think the new imac is just a design statement because they don't realize how useful the movable display is-- after all, *they're* happy and they haven't needed to move their piano weighted display.
Aqua is Aqua not because its pretty- Its pretty because it makes it a LOT easier to look at for hours on end and a lot easier to use-- meaning you get things done faster.
This is the next step towards making it even prettier, smoother, and easier to use.
And I'd say apple's extended its normal 2 year lead over the rest of the industry to a 5 year lead with this. I can't imagine Linux doing this within the decade, and Microsoft will have a knockoff in 5 years that meets the checkmark requirements but doesn't really work that great.
I have a friend who keeps asking me "so, why don't you put linux on that thing". I like linux, and have used it extensively, and actually intended to make one of my boxes a linux server, but after installing it, never booted it again. Why bother? it takes work to use.... the Mac user experience takes NO WORK to use, you just use it. Which means my time is spent programming.
This is a freedom that you have to experience to understand... so those of you who poo poo OS X, I encourage you to try it out for awhile and see what all the fuss is about. Don't just assume its those "mac heads ranting". You'll be missing out.
Interesting that those "obsolete" devices are going up in price on ebay every year.
8 years old and still better than the average palm.
Actually, I hear palm is going to move to strong arm soon.... and finally catch up with the newton.
Yes, we need the government deciding what companies can and can't do-- after all the government owns them!
Did you know that facism is not "government controlling people" its "government controlling companies"-- thats its distinction with communism which is "no companies allowed".
It should be illegal to propose that you restrict companies- profitable or not-- from exercising human rights.
If you own property, it is yours. Attempting to liberate it for "public good" is a violation of human rights-- whether that property is a banana or a microelectronics plant.
Mike Moore has made a career out of selling his failure as a human being as proof that companies are evil -- because there are lots of other human failures who want to believe that their own lives are not their own responsibility. And if it requires trampling on others human rights, so be it.
Get a job.
This is just wrong.
I had a original 1.0 release of the software, and very poor handwriting.
I had no trouble getting it to recognize my handwriting, and found it to be a delight to use.
The product was rather widely accepted before Jobs came back and killed it. Spinning Newton Inc out was the correct idea and would have made apple money-- they certainly were a profitable organization.
The newton was widely adopted and very successful. It just wasn't "Mass market" like the palm. But there was a huge industry.
Like NeXT its one of those technologies that pundits poo pooed (ignorant of technology they are anyway) and people assumed was a failure that wasn't profitable.
Hell, like APPLE.... even when it was 3 times the size of microsoft in revenues.
Yeah, but slashdot will never pass up the chance to perpetuate the myth that Steve Jobs is a petulant child who changed the text to spite those "newton lovers!"
As if he didn't point out that it was from the newton at WWDC.
In January 1996, The Wall Street Journal reported that over the prior weekend the boards of Sun and Apple had agreed to merge and that the deal was done, and to be announced later that week. For weeks after that people were claiming online that it really had happened and that the announcement had just been delayed.
As far as I know, the WSJ never retracted that story.
IF you want to talk about printing bad information-- the WSJ is a great example.
The project is being done completely by volunteers.
... and if there aren't apple DTS is ready to help any project that needs it.
I don't think there's a major mac product in existence that hasn't had some work "done" on it by apple-- at least some assistance. I'm not saying people need apple's help, but, hell, I'm the smallest of the small fry of Apples developer program and I've had an apple engineer sit down with me and help me with a problem I was having in my code -- not to mention the two technical support incidents I need to use before they expire.
That Apple and or Sun has put engineers on the project helping it out does not undermine the value of the effort contributed by the volunteers. It just points out apple's desire to support applications on its platform.
Hell, they even hired the guy that did chimera, and I suspect a large part of his job at apple is working on chimera.
My objection is not over the fact that it is a volunteer project, or even "all volunteer". But that you emphasized completely-- implying that apple is providing no support at all. I find that hard to believe as I expect there are a number of apple employees volunteering in unofficial or official capacities
" Generic hardware at speed x is $500.
Apple hardware at speed x is $2000."
You're an idiot.
Every time I've done this comparison, the Mac was about %10 cheaper, and usually still had extra stuff.
But then, you think an XBOX is the same as a PowerMac G4. Fucking idiot.
Please don't breed.
The registration is not enforced. Just don't be connected to the net when you go thru the process and then, it will say "you can register by doing such and such".
Registration is valuable-- you get discounts, and good info from Apple.
Making the registration easy is great for the average person-- they don't have to mess with it.
Jaguar has a new graphical subsystem called Quartz extreme. It has a refined aqua interface - yes, tehy changed the ui. And it has lots of other stuff.
10 was an upgrade on nine. This is an upgrade. ITs worth paying for.
You should be bitching if there wasn't enough new stuff in it, but unless you're running it you can't make that complaint.